Favorite (and most hated) mini-game/puzzle/event/etc.

[danzibr]

I've been playing quite a few short games lately (specifically, those made with RPG Maker) and I've noticed one thing which somewhat separates good ones from bad is good mini-games/puzzles/events.

Just to clarify, by mini-game/puzzles/events I basically mean... things which spice up the game. For example, lots of games have rock-pushing puzzles/events. Quite a few have riddles. Some have tile games. For some you have to do the right switches in the right order. Then you get bigger things like Blitzball and Triple Triad.

For me, I like math puzzles. For example, a clock loses 24 minutes every hour. You set it correctly at midnight. It stopped ticking an hour ago. It reads 3:00. What time is it?

For bigger things, my favorites would be Blitzball and Chocobo breeding/racing.

One type I really *really* don't like is when they don't make sense in-game. For example, suppose you're in a hotel. Joe is room 4, Bill is in room 13, Mainichiko is in room 42. Then you have a set a clock to 4:13:42. Nonsense.

I also really don't like it when you have to go back and forth and back and forth. It feels the game designer is just making the player do crap to fluff up play time.

[Corlindale]

I like Triple Triad a lot. It was fast-paced, and it had a meaningful impact on the main game if you did well (probably too big an impact, actually - you could get some really, really broken stuff early on with Card Mod). The only annoying part was trying to avoid the spread of undesirable rules.

Blitzball was fun for a while, but ultimately I think it started to feel a bit too much like a grind (because every match was quite long, compared to many other mini-games).

For actual puzzle games, I like it when there are multiple solutions. SpaceChem is one of my favourites, even though I don't have the brains to actually complete it.



I strongly dislike most alternative gameplay sections in the Ratchet and Clank games. I just want to be Ratchet and wreck havoc with all my ridiculous, upgradeable weapons. Don't force me into 2D-platforming, vehichle sections or Clank puzzles, please! I do like the Arena sections, though, but that's not a mini-game as much as the base gameplay taking to its logical extreme.

It's generally an annoying trend when people make a game with really fun and satisfying base gameplay, but then feel they have to dilute it by adding lengthy sections of something else.

[danzibr]

It's generally an annoying trend when people make a game with really fun and satisfying base gameplay, but then feel they have to dilute it by adding lengthy sections of something else.
While I found your entire point interesting, this one in particular caught my attention.

What I'm about to say ties into your Triple Triad comment. I was going to say, at least when it comes to mini-games rather than puzzles and events, is I like it when you can do the main game when never playing them but they're still rewarding. In fact, Triple Triad is like the perfect example. The game goes just fine if you never touch it, but if you do play it (which in itself is fun) you get nice boosts.

Now that I think about it, Chocobo stuff is similar. I found it fun but you get bonuses from the races as well as exploration.

... So is Blitzball. Ya know, no mini-games come to mind where you *need* to do them to be strong enough to tackle the main game, or do not contribute to the main game at all.

[Traab]

I disliked chocobo breeding. Mainly because I took the guide a bit too seriously where it said the higher ranked in races your chocobo was, the better the odds of it producing the rare type you were after. (I think thats how it said it worked, its been years) But anyways, endless races only to breed a new chocobo and start over from the lowest rank again, ugh. I only did it once. Besides, knights of the round materia is so broken its absurd. The only thing it doesnt one shot are the optional Weapons, (who are their own level of bs for another topic) and the final form of sephiroth (it two shots him)

Triple triad, was that the card game for ff8, or 9? Either way, I liked it, but at the same time I didnt, because it was so easy to make a mistake and lose a super powerful card and never get it back, so you had to save before every match just in case it went badly.

[Dhavaer]

The trading card game in Might & Magic 7 was pretty good.

I hated the level where you jump out of a plane in Wet. Saints Row did it so much better.

[Corlindale]

I should have clarified that I hate it when they force you to play the minigame during the main story, especially if it happens a lot. It's fine as an option.

I also really like Arcomage in MMVII, how could I forget that?

[Ebon_Drake]

TEST YOUR MIGHT!

Actually, that's a terrible example. It's just a load of button-mashing for no real benefit that'll probably end up breaking your controller and/or finger. However, the phrase "TEST YOUR MIGHT!" has been firmly lodged in my brain ever since Mortal Kombat 1 and was my instant reaction to this thread. The "Test Your Sight!" shell games in some of the later MKs were a pretty funny joke too.

I played a huge amount of Pazaak in KOTOR, which is kind of weird as it was just a dodgy version of blackjack that the computer constantly cheated at. The rewards weren't great either, but my first reaction on going to a new area was always to find the local pazaak player and rinse them out of their credits.

[Haar]

Herding beavers into the hole as a klaptrap in DK64 is the worst minigame. Ever.

[GloatingSwine]

Sudden death stealth sections can get in the sea.

[Rodin]

Sudden death stealth sections can get in the sea.

The worst one of these I can remember was in one of the No One Lives Forever games...I wanna say the first one but it could possibly have been the second.

The games already had crazy hard stealth requirements if you wanted to be stealthy - doing stuff like shooting cameras was out because gee, the security guard room would notice. If a guard saw you then the area would go into full alert and the stealth portion was over - you just had to shoot your way through the rest of the mission. None of this "guard finds a body, blames it on the rats" nonsense.

All of the above was fine. It was tricksy, but you could still do a good stealth run although lots of saving was generally required.

Then there was the office infiltration mission. You arrived in an office under some pretense (to do an interview or something), then while the guy was off doing the paperwork you had to slip away and sneak through a busy office building. Despite being a James Bond type superspy, you had none of your usual tools because, well, you're there in business attire. This meant you couldn't snipe guards, spoof the cameras with wacky tech, nothing. Just you sneaking through the office building without harming the hair on another person's head, and being spotted by anybody was instant failure.

Nightmare of a mission.

----

My current pet peeve is these open world games that are just an excuse to throw loads of mini-games at you. Yes, we're on an uber-important mission to find a cure for a zombie plague...but first lets go spend time doing parkour race games! My friends have all been captured by a psychopathic mercenary...let's go skeet shooting!

In terms of a forced one, current most hated is the radio/cell phone towers in Far Cry 3 and Dying Light. Rather than running around shooting stuff up, they make you do... a jumping puzzle. A first person jumping puzzle. At best, tiresome. At worst, downright infuriating as you can see obvious ways to climb up that are barred because there is One True Way to climb this freaking tower. And you have to do it over and over again.

[Eldan]

Sudden death stealth sections can get in the sea.

Aaargh, aaargh Ocarina of Time, why!

Hacking minigames. Have they ever been anything other than tedious?

[GloatingSwine]

The worst one of these I can remember was in one of the No One Lives Forever games...I wanna say the first one but it could possibly have been the second.


The first one.

The later part of the game was lousy with them (that office one was just the first).

[danzibr]

Aaargh, aaargh Ocarina of Time, why!

Hacking minigames. Have they ever been anything other than tedious?
While most have been tedious, I read about one which was supposedly done very well. I'd never plays it though.

[Traab]

Speaking of stealth missions, early medal of honor and call of duty games had two mission types that I disliked, though one WAY more than the other. The stealth mission is the lesser of two evils. Basically, you have to find a way to infiltrate a base without getting caught. You have a silenced single shot pistol (sometimes also a smg you dont want to use) and you have to steal uniforms, id cards, and of course, your eventual mission goal such as plans for scientific developments. The saving grace is that there are often a number of ways you can accomplish the mission sort of stealthy and still be able to shoot people, but its a challenge to figure out when. Oddly enough, you can wipe out a room full of scientists with a machine gun and not raise the alarm. So long as you shut the door behind you first. Because what sort of a military base pays attention to slightly quieter automatic gunfire? :smalltongue: But several of the missions are still beatable even if you get spotted. Its just way harder with lots of bad guys charging right for you.

The second mission type, the mission from hell. The sniper mission. No, not you as a sniper, you have to sneak through a town that has nothing but snipers in it. Often there is one waiting around every corner. And the old games were so terrible graphics wise that it was often impossible to figure out where you are being shot from till after the first several deaths. These missions were terrible for my blood pressure. Inch forward bit by bit. Hear or feel the first gunshot, then try to see everything that just came into your field of vision from all angles and hope you can spot the sniper that keeps ducking behind the windows out of sight after every shot. Die then do it again, hopefully finding him this time.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Favorite? Pipe dream hacking in Bioshock. I love those puzzles.

Least favorite... um, this is kind of obscure, but the virus-vs-virus battles in Megaman Battle Network 6. It would one thing if it just got you some cash and non-unique customizer programs (like HP+100), but you have to do the whole damn thing to get SuperVulcan, which is one of the 200 required standard battlechips (basically a card deck system) required to fight the best post-game boss. It's grindy, boring, and trial-and-error, so as soon as it became difficult, I just looked up how to beat it.

[Ryotaiku]

Favorite would either be rhythm sequences or coin collecting in Gauntlet. Least favorite would be Rollgoal in Twilight Princess; especially in a 100% playthrough.

[Ebon_Drake]

My current pet peeve is these open world games that are just an excuse to throw loads of mini-games at you. Yes, we're on an uber-important mission to find a cure for a zombie plague...but first lets go spend time doing parkour race games! My friends have all been captured by a psychopathic mercenary...let's go skeet shooting!

I do love the fact that the first thing you do in FFVII after Aeris dies is go snowboarding. Talk about mood whiplash!

I did quite like how the Riddler trophies were justified in Arkham Asylum. On the surface, it looks like a pointless fetch quest with the vague reward of hearing Riddler get arrested at the end. However, there's a few hints in the game to suggest that Joker and Riddler were working together. How was Riddler helping the Joker? He was buying Joker time by distracting Batman with a pointless fetch quest!

[Maethirion]

Chocobo Hot and Cold from Final Fantasy IX was always my favourite - a heap of fun, more getting unlocked as the game progressed, and while it gave you a bit of an advantage in gear, it was nothing game breaking, and I never felt like playing too much of it trivialised the game, which was the issue with Triple Triad (Which was otherwise fantastic)

As far as least favourite goes, I remember really disliking a lot of the mini games in Jak 3 - there was some kind of code cracking one? They were so out of genre and strange that it just really grated. The endless fetch quest style minigames are also always a pain.

Hiro is absolutely spot on with those virus vs virus battles though. The bane of my existence playing those games, I swear. Far more trouble than they were worth.

[Cespenar]

Arcomage for the win. Also, Caravan from Fallout New Vegas, and to a degree, Pazaak from KOTOR were pretty enjoyable.

Strangely, I like the nonsensical hacking/lockpicking/etc. minigames found in most RPG/stealth game/whatevers. They present a slight recess amidst the normal flow of the game, which is IMO a healthy thing to do, and they help effectively delay your boredom with the actual game further.

Also, I don't know if this applies to anyone else, but I loved it when normal base-building RTSs had those rare tactical missions where you only went with the few units who were given to you at the start of the mission. Had them in Age of Empires(?), C&C, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc.

Generally, unless a minigame/puzzle/event isn't entirely impassable or incredibly repetitive, I like them. Games should be either short if their flow is unbroken, or try different things within itself if they are rather lengthy.

[Rodin]

Another that bugs me is mini-games which are either directly board games or resemble them (i.e., there is a competitive element against the computer)...and the computer is both skilled at said game and it is required to progress. The damn virus game in 7th Guest was one of the bad ones - my entire family had a shot at beating that thing, and in the end we had to use the puzzle skip to get past it (which locks you out of something in the ending, IIRC). Another game had you needing to get a plot coupon from a dude who liked playing Othello. Not only was the dude super hard to beat, but the game as a whole had an absolute time limit where you were slowly transforming into a monster. If you didn't beat him fast enough you could wind up being totally screwed.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Can quicktime events be considered mini-games? Because PRESS X TO NOT DIE is easily the most annoying and pointless gameplay gimmick ever. Especially during cutscenes.

[danzibr]

Can quicktime events be considered mini-games? Because PRESS X TO NOT DIE is easily the most annoying and pointless gameplay gimmick ever. Especially during cutscenes.
lol

This reminds me of the end of MGS4. I consider myself a decent button masher, but by the time Snake dragged his old ass through that laser hall my thumb was dead.

[Traab]

Also, I don't know if this applies to anyone else, but I loved it when normal base-building RTSs had those rare tactical missions where you only went with the few units who were given to you at the start of the mission. Had them in Age of Empires(?), C&C, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc.

Generally, unless a minigame/puzzle/event isn't entirely impassable or incredibly repetitive, I like them. Games should be either short if their flow is unbroken, or try different things within itself if they are rather lengthy.

Oooh! I loved those missions! Remember the tower defense game when the blood elves and illidan escape from dalaran in wc3 tft? That one was awesome. Also the ones you mentioned, like navigating your way through an enemy laboratory with only the units they let you have. Very cool stuff and lots of strategy involved instead of "Make massive bioball of favorite units then attack till other side is dead" I also liked the heart of the swarm mission where you have to protect kerrigan (again) till she hatches by using those swarm lords or whatever the burrowing units are. Dang those guys were cool. Of course, the starcraft 2 game had a lot of different mission types. Escorts, timed, limited resources, so it kept things from getting boring imo.

[Cespenar]

Oooh! I loved those missions! Remember the tower defense game when the blood elves and illidan escape from dalaran in wc3 tft? That one was awesome. Also the ones you mentioned, like navigating your way through an enemy laboratory with only the units they let you have. Very cool stuff and lots of strategy involved instead of "Make massive bioball of favorite units then attack till other side is dead" I also liked the heart of the swarm mission where you have to protect kerrigan (again) till she hatches by using those swarm lords or whatever the burrowing units are. Dang those guys were cool. Of course, the starcraft 2 game had a lot of different mission types. Escorts, timed, limited resources, so it kept things from getting boring imo.

Yeah, they were pretty good. I think in W3 and especially SC2 Blizzard really figured out how to make single player missions interesting.

[Traab]

Yeah, they were pretty good. I think in W3 and especially SC2 Blizzard really figured out how to make single player missions interesting.

Agreed, especially SC2. There was a constant variance in mission types to keep things fresh. WC3 was not as much, but they did still include a number of fun changes. I especially enjoyed the rpg at the end with rexxar. I must have played the final mission a couple dozen times just to experiment with different ways to beat it. I think my favorite was to ignore the enemy units and small towers, and focus on destroying every big tower for all three paths, then slowly making it so all three branches of my troops were able to storm the final boss at once. It was just more fun than having my squad power through in a straight line and do it alone while the two side camps started getting wiped out.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Also, I don't know if this applies to anyone else, but I loved it when normal base-building RTSs had those rare tactical missions where you only went with the few units who were given to you at the start of the mission. Had them in Age of Empires(?), C&C, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc.
Now that you mention it, yeah I always liked those. Especially kicking butt with Tayna solo in the first Red Alert.

[danzibr]

To throw out another question, how about when you have to split your party in two? Like, both McGuffins have to be grabbed at the same time, or push on a button with party A allows party B to advance, then party B flips a switch, etc.

As for me, I like 'em. In games with lots of party members I used to just pick one party I liked and stick with it, but nowadays I try to use everyone, usually including the lowest level party members (which of course keeps changing as they gain levels).

[Hiro Protagonest]

I remember the Tosh infiltration mission in Wings of Liberty. That was pretty fun.

I'm also terrible at SC2 so I have no idea how to just steamroll everything on Brutal difficulty with bioball. -_- Basically the only mission I did good at on "Hard" difficulty was Zombie Outbreak. Granted, I made sure to do the Reaper mission first so I could use reapers in it, and with both reapers and hellions, it was a simple matter to get the infestors at night (while making sure to burn swathes through the zombie horde) and destroy a ton of stuff in the daytime.


To throw out another question, how about when you have to split your party in two? Like, both McGuffins have to be grabbed at the same time, or push on a button with party A allows party B to advance, then party B flips a switch, etc.

As for me, I like 'em. In games with lots of party members I used to just pick one party I liked and stick with it, but nowadays I try to use everyone, usually including the lowest level party members (which of course keeps changing as they gain levels).

FFVI did this well. Dunno about other games.

[veti]

Some of my favourite games are basically "a bunch of mini-games strung together with some kind of loose overarching plot". Most Zelda games, for instance, meet that description. I loved Twilight Princess, but the whole gameplay was essentially "acquire new toy (mini-game), play it, move on, repeat".

Chocobo Tales is another one.

(However, the overarching plot has to be strong enough, and sufficiently linked to the action, to sustain some tension. I generally give up on Mario games about one-third of the way through, because there's no sense of ongoing menace from Bowser - kidnapping Peach is a one-off action and from then on he's pretty much purely defensive.)

Mini-games that can die screaming: yeah, as mentioned above, any one that boils down to "press X to avoid instant death". The most offensive examples I can think of right now are from Resident Evil 4.

Also, I hate it when you get a mini-game that's simultaneously (a) easy, and (b) insoluble by any NPC. The example in my mind is from Skyrim - the puzzles to get into Sky Haven Temple are ridiculously simple, yet for some reason these two allegedly intelligent people accompanying me have no idea how to go about them. That's - offensively stupid.

[Traab]

I did not like the party splits much. Mainly because in games like ff6 I had my favorite party and everyone else sucked, so I had to split up my favorites so everyone could do decent instead of dropping bum rush, auto crossbow quadraslam and gogo mimicking one of them. They werent a game breaker or anything, I just didnt enjoy them much.

[Cespenar]

I like the party splits. Story-wise it makes a lot more sense than getting 3 people with you and leaving 5 at least as competent NPCs behind in your spaceship/airship/stronghold.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I like the party splits. Story-wise it makes a lot more sense than getting 3 people with you and leaving 5 at least as competent NPCs behind in your spaceship/airship/stronghold.

At the brink of time. :smalltongue:

[Cristo Meyers]

At the brink of time. :smalltongue:

Just picked that up off the PSN while it was on sale for, like, 3$US. Still holds up even after all these years :smallbiggrin:

Put me down as another for Triple Triad in FF8. That mini-game was just so addictive.

Another pseudo-minigame that I really like was in Yoshi's Island. There was a single level where you were skiing down a hill. There was just something about it that was really fun.

[Squark]

Party splits can be fine, but they can be very frustrating when the switch points aren't clear or are forced and very frequent (The Shinra HQ was intensely frustrating for me when I played through FF7 last summer)

[Triaxx]

Those 'snipers are trying to kill you' levels are some of my favorites. Nothing more fun than slipping carefully through a city, shooting anything that looks like it's going to shoot me first. Especially the Russian missions from the first game. Those two were awesome.

The ones I don't like? Tetra Master. Explained rules, that just don't seem to apply? Check. Story critical? Check. Makes me want to eat the game disc? Check.

Chocobo Hot & Cold was nearly as addictive as Triple Triad.

I only played Arcomage in M&M8.

[JeenLeen]

Favorite is probably Triple Triad from FF8. I liked Blitzball back in high school, but I think I would find it too grindy now. Triple Triad I'm sure I'd still enjoy (as long as I can keep the Random rule from spreading.)

One I disliked -- though probably not the worst to me -- was FF9's card game. It had too many random elements for me to enjoy it, and the fact that your cards leveled up, and it was a rare configuration that was best (or something like that), meant it would be a ton of work to get the strongest deck. My friends and I found it relied too much on chance than strategy.

I really liked one in the 2nd Penny Arcade: On the Rainslick Precipice of Darkness (think that's the title)... well, spoilers.
where you fight the mind-destroying something that the folk at the asylum inject into you. It was a puzzle game, which usually bugs me, but really fun. Not too hard once I figured out the rules, but I actually wished I could go back and play it more. Scratch and Catsby are your guides.

I also liked the 'war' parts of the Suikoden games, especially Suikoden II (not so much on III). I wish they had an option to let you play them for fun, like a guy in your castle you could run tactical simulations with. Those might not count as minigames, though.

[danzibr]

Favorite is probably Triple Triad from FF8. I liked Blitzball back in high school, but I think I would find it too grindy now. Triple Triad I'm sure I'd still enjoy (as long as I can keep the Random rule from spreading.)

One I disliked -- though probably not the worst to me -- was FF9's card game. It had too many random elements for me to enjoy it, and the fact that your cards leveled up, and it was a rare configuration that was best (or something like that), meant it would be a ton of work to get the strongest deck. My friends and I found it relied too much on chance than strategy.

I really liked one in the 2nd Penny Arcade: On the Rainslick Precipice of Darkness (think that's the title)... well, spoilers.
where you fight the mind-destroying something that the folk at the asylum inject into you. It was a puzzle game, which usually bugs me, but really fun. Not too hard once I figured out the rules, but I actually wished I could go back and play it more. Scratch and Catsby are your guides.

I also liked the 'war' parts of the Suikoden games, especially Suikoden II (not so much on III). I wish they had an option to let you play them for fun, like a guy in your castle you could run tactical simulations with. Those might not count as minigames, though.
I agree with all of this! Except I never played the spoilered one.

Especially the Suikoden II war thing. When you get all your 108 peeps, there are only 2 battles left, and 1 of them you don't have time to configure your troops. That was disappointing. And for the final battle you don't even annihilate the enemy, just get a unit on their town. Disappointing.

I also would've liked more duels.

[Cespenar]

I only played Arcomage in M&M8.

There have been times which I booted the game, immediately went for that keep, grabbed the deck, and just played Arcomage.

[Wardog]

Not sure about my favourite.

Least favourite specific minigame is definitely the "shoot enemy spaceships" sections in KotOR1. Surprisingly difficult (mainly due to terrible controls), no chance to practice beforehand (unlike the racing games), boring, and if you lose, Game Over.

Other than that, "Solve the Towers of Hanoi to hack this system/disarm this bomb/reactivate this reactor/etc". If I can remember the solution, its trivially easy. If you can't, I find it takes me ages to work it out through trial and error, when I'd much rather be be shooting bad-guys (or whatever the main gameplay is).

[Cespenar]

Other than that, "Solve the Towers of Hanoi to hack this system/disarm this bomb/reactivate this reactor/etc". If I can remember the solution, its trivially easy. If you can't, I find it takes me ages to work it out through trial and error, when I'd much rather be be shooting bad-guys (or whatever the main gameplay is).

It's either the Towers or that puzzle where you turn switches and light up a square and all its adjacent squares... and stuff.

[Triaxx]

Towers of Hanoi?

[Grif]

Towers of Hanoi?

Tower of Hanoi.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/TowersofHanoiSolution_700.gif

Basically a puzzle where you need to move the entire stack from the left, to the right. Basic rules is you can only put a smaller piece on top of a bigger one.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Tower of Hanoi.

Basically a puzzle where you need to move the entire stack from the left, to the right. Basic rules is you can only put a smaller piece on top of a bigger one.

Yeah, I'm good at those, but as far as visual puzzles go, it's not very fun.

Given all the complaints I've heard about "they put puzzles in my shooter/brawler/shmup!" I figure that puzzles should just be optional things. Bioshock is good at this, hacking makes things easier but isn't required, and you have auto-hack tools to get those vendor discounts and safecracking.

[Triaxx]

Ah. That makes sense. Annoying, but sensical.

[Wardog]

It's either the Towers or that puzzle where you turn switches and light up a square and all its adjacent squares... and stuff.

I don't mind those ones so much. Not least because each one can be unique and require a bit of thought, and so you can have multiple instances in a game, so you can get some practice.


I do remember once having to do the Tower of Hanoi puzzle as part of a team-building exercise at work. We had [some time - I can't remember how long] to do it, and would get penalty points if we made an illegal move or had to reset it. To avoid unnecess penalties, I broke up some sticks into different lengths so we could practice with those rather than movign the actual hoops.

We still couldn't work it out in time, but just before the time ran out, I realised that - by the rules as written - picking up the entire stack of hoops and moving them all simultaneously to the end position only counted as one rules violation and so only earned one penalty point :smallbiggrin:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I found planet scanning in ME2 and ME3 to be one of the dullest features of the entire trilogy.

And this is compared to ME1, where you randomly wandered around planetary surfaces and tagged piles of rocks for money. Because in most cases, the piles of rocks were only a small part of the overall act of exploration. Whereas for planet scanning, the acquisition of resources and plot-important items is severely diminished by the uninteresting way in which you do it. If Palladium fell out of enemies when I killed them that would be unrealistic, but it would still be a better alternative to planet scanning.

And in ME3, the Reaper alertness thing is a joke. What happens when the Reapers catch you? Game over, reload the game, and now you can just keep scanning until you find the points. I am like, totally on the edge of my seat here.

Incentives for exploration, yes, I get that, but surely it could have been be more engaging?

Favorite mini-game? Hmm.

I'd have to say the games of chance in New Vegas. Not because I enjoy gambling, or because you could make a lot of money out of it, but because it added to the overall theme of the game. Also nice if you invested into Luck, lol.

[KillianHawkeye]

So.................

Am I the only one who thought FF9's Tetra Master was a far superior card game to Triple Triad??

[danzibr]

[...]
In Star Control II you have to do a lot of resource harvesting. Load up your main ship with fuel cells and storage bays. Fly out, explore and land on every single hospitable planet to ninja its resources. It was a very enjoyable part of the game... I found it relaxing.

So.................

Am I the only one who thought FF9's Tetra Master was a far superior card game to Triple Triad??
One of the few, at least.

[Traab]

I liked 9 better, if only because I actually played ff9 way more often and so played the game more often. I hated ff8 all the way around so didnt get a lot of experience with the game. *EDIT* I mean the card game. I didnt like ff8 at all really, so I didnt get much experience with the card game. FF9 was a fun game all the way around, but the card game, while often enjoyable, was just too damn annoying with the need to save every game or else risk an unlucky run costing you your best card or something.

[Eldariel]

Some of the old Commander Keens had pong as a minigame. I was a big fan of that.

[Rodin]

Yeah, I'm good at those, but as far as visual puzzles go, it's not very fun.

Given all the complaints I've heard about "they put puzzles in my shooter/brawler/shmup!" I figure that puzzles should just be optional things. Bioshock is good at this, hacking makes things easier but isn't required, and you have auto-hack tools to get those vendor discounts and safecracking.

A lot of the problem with puzzles in shooters is that they tend to be pretty basic. The game wasn't designed around puzzling, so there wasn't a whole lot of thought put into making the puzzles engaging. As a result, you wind up dealing with time consuming and annoying puzzles that don't really innovate. Best example off the top of my head is that sliding tile puzzle in Resident Evil 4. It's hard enough to be frustrating while also having nothing to do with the genre, bringing nothing to the story, and also being the type of puzzle that's been appearing in video games since video games were created.

When the game actually has a focus on puzzles there are far fewer complaints. See: Metroid Prime series.

[Gnoman]

FF9 was a fun game all the way around, but the card game, while often enjoyable, was just too damn annoying with the need to save every game or else risk an unlucky run costing you your best card or something.

Little secret about FFIX's card game - the random element was so high that card strength meant virtually nothing, and the only thing that was different between cards was the number of arrows. Tetra Master was nothing more than the computer deciding "YOU WIN" or "YOU LOSE", with player inputs effectively irrelevant.

[Kesnit]

Least favourite specific minigame is definitely the "shoot enemy spaceships" sections in KotOR1. Surprisingly difficult (mainly due to terrible controls), no chance to practice beforehand (unlike the racing games), boring, and if you lose, Game Over.

Other than that, "Solve the Towers of Hanoi to hack this system/disarm this bomb/reactivate this reactor/etc". If I can remember the solution, its trivially easy. If you can't, I find it takes me ages to work it out through trial and error, when I'd much rather be be shooting bad-guys (or whatever the main gameplay is).

BioWare loves Tower of Hanoi. It shows up in both KotOR1 and ME1. I hated it both times.

But I finally found a minigame I hate more - computer hacking in Alpha Protocol. I actually gave up on playing it the first time I tried because, no matter what I did, I couldn't pass the minigame. I read the forums and found it is easier to do with a controller than k/m, so I tried that. This time I managed to get through, but it still sucks.

I can't think of a minigame I actually like. I don't like puzzle games, so anytime the game makes me solve a puzzle, I feel like I am wasting time I could be playing.

[Cespenar]

But I finally found a minigame I hate more - computer hacking in Alpha Protocol. I actually gave up on playing it the first time I tried because, no matter what I did, I couldn't pass the minigame. I read the forums and found it is easier to do with a controller than k/m, so I tried that. This time I managed to get through, but it still sucks.

I've heard people not getting past that but it's not really that hard. What you should do is just figuring out how sensitively the mouse-part moves. If you can get used to the mouse part, the keyboard part is easy enough, and you can reliably select the passwords.

[Kesnit]

I've heard people not getting past that but it's not really that hard. What you should do is just figuring out how sensitively the mouse-part moves. If you can get used to the mouse part, the keyboard part is easy enough, and you can reliably select the passwords.

That doesn't really work. First, because it means I'd have to adjust the mouse sensitivity every time I need to hack something. (In order to actually play the game, I need a lower sensitivity than I would use on the hacking game.) Second, because my problem isn't only the mouse - it's that I can't always find the password in the screen of moving characters.

[Cespenar]

That doesn't really work. First, because it means I'd have to adjust the mouse sensitivity every time I need to hack something. (In order to actually play the game, I need a lower sensitivity than I would use on the hacking game.) Second, because my problem isn't only the mouse - it's that I can't always find the password in the screen of moving characters.

Different strokes, then, I guess. After a couple of times, it became one of the easiest minigames to me.

[Taet]

It's either the Towers or that puzzle where you turn switches and light up a square and all its adjacent squares... and stuff.
Oh Lights Out. That reminds me can we add an MMO to the list? When the game makes you run a puzzle script in another window so you can get through the event the game has done something wrong. :smallsigh:


So.................

Am I the only one who thought FF9's Tetra Master was a far superior card game to Triple Triad??
Tetra Master cards were a lot easier to read. I could not play Triple Triad and later I found it I was reading the card letters wrong. So to me Triple Triad was the one with weird decisions on who won because I could not see what I was doing. :smallredface:

[Eldan]

Can quicktime events be considered mini-games? Because PRESS X TO NOT DIE is easily the most annoying and pointless gameplay gimmick ever. Especially during cutscenes.

You know where it was the worst, for me? The Wolf Among Us. Here I am, sitting a bit back from my computer, listening to very good dialogue, clicking answers with the mouse on my knee and bam! "Press E now or be thrown through a wall!" Cue frantic scrambling forward to the keyboard and semi-blind smashing to find the right key.

[Cespenar]

You know where it was the worst, for me? The Wolf Among Us. Here I am, sitting a bit back from my computer, listening to very good dialogue, clicking answers with the mouse on my knee and bam! "Press E now or be thrown through a wall!" Cue frantic scrambling forward to the keyboard and semi-blind smashing to find the right key.

Eh. Truth be told, Wolf Among Us had pretty easy quicktime events, probably not to screw with the flow too much.

They probably didn't think of people not having easy access to their keyboard, though. :smalltongue:

[Triaxx]

Triple Triad's all about the corners. Secure those, and the game is yours. The computer always plays top to bottom, so as long as you get the first turn, and have the ability to hold the upper corners, you can attack the rest of the cards with impunity. That, and taking the first available chance to wipe out Random are the keys to success.

Tetra Master is doable, but you need to understand how the cards and arrows work. Once you learn that, it's pretty simple. Until you learn that, you'll tear your hair out.

[Raimun]

Some games, usually RPGs, have pretty good card games as mini-games. Triple Triad from Final Fantasy VIII has been mentioned and I liked it too. It was fun to play and refining stuff from cards was actually one of the better ways to increase your actual fighting abilities.

Witcher 3 has Gwent, an another card game. I have no idea yet if playing Gwent will ever help Geralt slay monsters better but it sure is fun to play. Your deck represents a medievel fantasy army and every card (diveded to rows of infantry, archers and war machines) has a points value that's added to your total when you put it on the table. You try to get a better point total than your opponent and every match has always two rounds. The game requires some tactical thinking. For example... some cards can negate points from an entire row of cards, some can increase points in an entire row, others can cancel those out, some cards let you draw more cards, others let you take cards back to your hand, you have a leader card with a special ability that can be played once a game... and who knows what else. Sometimes you even want to lose a round after your opponent has commited most of his cards or all of the heavy hitters to the table and you still have plenty of cards to play. It would be fun to try it against a human opponent.

Metal Gear Solid 3 had Guy Savage, a canceled Konami "hack and slash-game" as a mini-game. It was totally random but it was kind of cool and made somehow perfect sense in the context. It was playable only once during the entire game. It was actually a nightmare Snake had when he was imprisoned, after one of the support staff had scared him with some story about Dracula. Yeah.

What I don't usually like are the puzzles. That is, in games that are not marketed or classified as puzzle games. They're just usually unnecessary and it feels like they're just padding the game, when some bloke at the game studio had "oh-so-clever-idea" about blocks or switches. They don't even make sense in most contexts since the only fictional characters that would make puzzle-based obstacles are The Riddler and The Jigsaw Killer and most games are not about Batman or Saw. You can only push so many blocks around and turn on or off that many switches in the correct sequence when it becomes unbearably dull. Some games make you actually think but this kind of thing doesn't qualify.

So, I guess prefer that the mini-games are optional and not obstacles.