Entangle vs. Incoming Adversaries

[Amphetryon]

DISCLAIMER: While this thread is brought about by rulings in a game in which I'm a Player, I want to make clear I'm perfectly okay with those rulings functioning as they do within that game. I'm asking for clarification to see if I've been too lax in my own rulings, and how others generally apply this spell and others like it in similar circumstances. If it matters, the following describes a (theoretically) Level-Appropriate encounter dispatched without party casualties.

As the adventuring party traverses the wilderness on the outskirts of a savanna, they notice Axebeaks racing toward them, more than 100' away. The reach-weapon 'fighter'* moves to brace against the oncoming adversaries, with the Party's Animal Companions at his sides. The Druid hangs back and casts Entangle before the Axebeaks can close the distance entirely, centered so that it would catch the Axebeaks within weapon range of the 'fighter's' reach weapon but further than 5' from him. The DM's response, roughly, is "The Axebeaks are INT 2, so they're smart enough to see the obstacle in front of them and veer off from their direct path to the 'fighter.' You spoiled the charge, and made part of the map functionally off-limits, but they're not otherwise impeded by the spell at all."

Is this how it would work in your campaigns? Would an INT 2 creature be able to see, recognize, and react to an Entangle spell cast with the intent of capturing them as they charged forward such that the spell could not hit them at all? Would a higher INT adversary fare better, and if so, what's the INT threshold you'd use for that determination?

*Technically, one of the Path of War Classes. Doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion, and his role is that of party 'fighter' with reach weapon.

[Mehangel]

I probably would've suggested that you ready an action and cast it when the creatures are already in the area.

As for the particular ruling, I would probably say that if an animal saw writhing vines, it might not approach. Not because of it being unnatural, but rather because writhing vines seem to have the general appearance of snakes. Lots and lots of snakes.

If the only vegetation in the area is grass, I probably would say that having the creatures vear off was a bit much. Because writhing grass could be mistaken for wind.

So I suppose it should probably be handled with the particular vegetation in the area. Not just the INT of the creature.

[Crake]

I probably would've suggested that you ready an action and cast it when the creatures are already in the area.

Honestly, it sounds like, based on the description, that's what he did. He said he would wait until they were 10ft away from the fighter, then catch them with entangle. That's the only way he could have achieved that unless he also planned on catching the fighter in the entangle as well.

[Amphetryon]

Honestly, it sounds like, based on the description, that's what he did. He said he would wait until they were 10ft away from the fighter, then catch them with entangle. That's the only way he could have achieved that unless he also planned on catching the fighter in the entangle as well.

Nope. Before the Axebeaks could close the distance, Entangle was cast on an area in front of where the Axebeaks were running, so that the fighter would not get caught in the AoE but so that their apparent most reasonable (straight) path to him would have the running creatures go through the AoE to reach him. Nowhere in the original description does the phrase "He said he would wait until they were 10ft away from the fighter, then catch them with entangle" occur; catching them within the range of the fighter's reach weapon was a function of the size of the spell and the length of his reach.

[Lycar]

Okay then, while this is a typical artifact of turn-based combat, think of it like this:

A readied action happens just before the event that triggers it. For example, the fighter breaching for a charge gets to attack just before a creature leaves the threatened square of his reach weapon or attacks or charges when it just entered a threatened square that is adjacent to the (non-reach) fighter. So if the druid had cast this as a readied action, triggered by the Axebeaks approaching the indicated area/square, then the spell would happen just as they are already in the area and could not react to it, since they are already committed to their charging action.

If the druid just casts it during his own turn however, he is not casting specifically at the charging pack of Axebeaks, but rather at the area in front of the fighter. It is therefore reasonable to rule, that the effect comes to life before the animals actually reach the area and thus can react to it.

Animals are not mindless automatons and can react to threads popping up in front of them just fine. If anything, they are prone to being duped/tricked/mislead by illusions/glammers/figments etc., more so then a more intelligent creature capable of reasoning. But their instinctive reaction to a field of writhing tentacles should be 'avoid'. So I can find no flaw with your DM's ruling.

Turn this around: You are fighting an enemy druid and on his turn he cast Black Tentacles in front of him. Now the fighter's turn comes up. He is just fine with reacting to the now changed battlefield and scrap his plan to charge the druid and opt to avoid the tentacles.

But if it is the fighter's turn, he charges and the opposing druid casts as a (readied) reaction to the fighter's charge, he will be caught in the spell's AoE.

[Amphetryon]

So, apparently Entangle is supposed to be considerably less useful than I'm used to against an already moving adversary. Nifty. I guess I don't need to worry about whether the spell needs nerfing anymore, given that.