[3.5] Build Challenge - Sorcerer max spells known

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

What's the maximum spells known for a Sorcerer 20? I'm certain this has been done before, but anyway...

For purposes of this challenge, the following apply:


Must still get 9th level spells.
Not item/WBL dependant - i.e. no Knowstones, Runestaffs, magical locations, Drake Helm etc. (using only feats, PrCs, ACFs etc.)
No infinite loops.

Other than that, go nuts.

Cheers - T

[Brova]

1. Be an Elf.
2. Take Leadership. Your cohort is a Druid.
3. Chaos Shuffle your Elf feats into Extra Spell.
4. Kill yourself.
5. Have your cohort bring you back with true reincarnate, opting to not be an Elf.
6. wish yourself back to Elf-hood, regaining your Elf feats.*
7. Go to 3.

*: This is not 100% clearly correct. You may have to alternate between Elf and non-Elf incarnations.

That's probably not the best but it gets you every Sorcerer/Wizard spell of 8th level or less, or every spell of 8th level or less if you don't believe in errata.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cast Heroics to gain a (temporary) feat, Embrace the Dark Chaos to trade your (temporary) feat for a (permanent) abyssal heritor feat, Shun the Dark Chaos to trade your (permanent) abyssal heritor feat for any (permanent) feat you want, i.e. a Bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium (nine spells each) or Extra Spell.


OA Samurai 1/ Sorcerer + PrCs 19, one of your ancestral daisho weapons is a staff. You can sacrifice valuable objects (cast Stone to Flesh and then Flesh to Salt on a boulder, and it's free) to give it magical properties, there's a minimum character level for a +X equivalent enhancement bonus but there's no limit to how many non-enhancement-bonus-priced effects you can put onto it via the same method. Make it a custom Runestaff and you can eventually put every Sorcerer spell in every book on it, each usable 3/day as though they were spells known. You can even put non-Sorcerer spells on it and make a UMD check each morning when you attune to it to cast those spells from it as though they're on your class spell list.

[Necroticplague]

A one level dip into Sand Shaper can give you a very sizable spells known expansion.

[Thurbane]

Hmm, OK, aside from infinite loops cheese, then... :smallbiggrin:

Sand Shaper is always a solid option.

[ranagrande]

For something a bit simpler, a Dragonblood Sorcerer 7/Ruathar 3/Sand Shaper 2/Unseen Seer 8 with Draconic Legacy and a bloodline feat has 103 spells known. A Silverbrow Human with flaws can get Extra Spell too.

[Nifft]

Sorcerer 1 / Wizard 19 :wink: You said prestige classes were allowed and Wizard has the most prestige.

- - -

Serious answer, hmm. Might be too obvious...

Kobold (duh)

Level 1: Sorc 1
- L1: Dragonwrought (Races of the Dragon)
- Sorc ACF Draconic Heritage: Bronze (Races of the Dragon)
- Flaw 1: Draconic Knowledge (Dragon Magic)
- Flaw 2: Anarchic Bloodline (Dragon Compendium) +9 spells
- Rite of Draconic Passage (Identify 1/day)
...
Level 3: Sorc 3
- L3 Feat: Draconic Reservoir (RotD Web Enhancement)
...
Level 6: Wild Soul 1 (Unseelie)
- L6 Feat: Touchstone: City of the Dead (Sandstorm)
- Rite of Greater Draconic Passage (to recover lost caster level)
...
Level 7: Sand Shaper 1 +Sand Shaper spell list
(then back to Wild Soul)
...
Level 9: Wild Soul 3
- L9 Feat: Mother Cyst (Libris Mortis) +10 spells
...
Level 12: Wild Soul 6
- L12 Feat: Draconic Breath (RotD)
...
Level 15: Wild Soul 9
- L15 Feat: Draconic Legacy (RotD) +3 spells
...
Level 16: Wild Soul 10 +9 spells
- At this point, he casts like a level 15 Sorcerer with Sand Shaper list +31 more. If he does nothing more clever than Sorcerer, he's going to hit level 19 casting +31, or +32 if he makes good use of the level 7 Dragonblood Sorcerer ACF.

[daremetoidareyo]

1. Be changeling.

2. Write into backstory having witnessed a ritual wherein you watched an effigy of a mind flayer become an incarnate construct.

3. Also write into backstory about how your village of changelings was full of brain eating delicacy hunters. List a CR 9 creature who's brain that you've eaten as a child.

4. racial emulation feat, quick shapechange

5. Catch lycanthropy enough to get enough HD to get a knowledge arcana 10.

6. racially emulate the humanoid typed construct of a mindflayer for entry into illithid savant.

7. Gain x amount of levels to still be allowed entry into the class,

8. Eat the brains of your enemies for a spell per level.


or


take some draconic feats or something

[Nifft]

Kobold (duh)


Hmm. I can't see a way to work in Celestial Sorcerer Heritage up to Lore to get +4 more spells (one spell per feat required). Oh well.

[WhamBamSam]

Hmm. I can't see a way to work in Celestial Sorcerer Heritage up to Lore to get +4 more spells (one spell per feat required). Oh well.I think I can, though it requires Chaos Shuffling.

Kobolds have two racial weapon proficiency feats per the RotD Web Enhancement, you cease needing the Draconic Resevoir feat once you've undergone the Greater Draconic Rite, and you cease needing Draconic Breath once you've taken Draconic Legacy, as Draconic Legacy meets the requirement of a 4th draconic feat itself. You could even shuffle out one of your Celestial Heritage feats afterward, as Celestial Lore will similarly self-qualify.

Or at least that would work, but you already seem to be one draconic feat short, unless I'm missing something. You might be able to shuffle Touchstone out once you've entered Sand Shaper, depending on where you stand with respect to the CWar/CArc PrC disqualification argument. And, I guess, you have your 18th level feat still open.

[Nifft]

I think I can, though it requires Chaos Shuffling.

Kobolds have two racial weapon proficiency feats per the RotD Web Enhancement, you cease needing the Draconic Resevoir feat once you've undergone the Greater Draconic Rite, and you cease needing Draconic Breath once you've taken Draconic Legacy, as Draconic Legacy meets the requirement of a 4th draconic feat itself. You could even shuffle out one of your Celestial Heritage feats afterward, as Celestial Lore will similarly self-qualify.

Or at least that would work, but you already seem to be one draconic feat short, unless I'm missing something. You might be able to shuffle Touchstone out once you've entered Sand Shaper, depending on where you stand with respect to the CWar/CArc PrC disqualification argument. And, I guess, you have your 18th level feat still open.

Hmm.

I would personally never allow retraining away prerequisites, but that's something which the OP would need to clarify for this thread.

But I thought of another tool: our last four levels can be Dragonheart Mage. That gives three [Draconic] feats, and with the addition of our level 18 feat, that's just enough... but of the wrong type.

What we could do is retrain Draconic Knowledge for Celestial Sorcerer Heritage and then re-take Draconic Knowledge with our level 18 bonus Draconic feat (from Dragonheart Mage level 2). So, we will have Draconic Knowledge at every level, it will just jump around a bit on our character sheet when we level up.

Then we'll have:
- Draconic Heritage L1 (ACF bonus)
- Draconic Reservoir L3
- Draconic Breath L17 (PrC bonus)
- Draconic Knowledge L18 (PrC bonus)
- Draconic Legacy L20 (PrC bonus) +3 spells

- Celestial Sorcerer Heritage L1 (flaw; retrained) +1 spell
- Celestial Sorcerer Aura L12
- Celestial Sorcerer Wings L15
- Celestial Sorcerer Lore L18 +3 spells

[Hiro Quester]

Learning shadow evocation and shadow conjuration (and their greater versions) gets you instant access to a lot of spells. Extra will save to disbelieve, and only 50/80% power, though.

But the non-blasty spells, especially ones affecting you and allies, can choose to fail the will save, can be awesome. My bard/sublime chord character made very good regular use of these (create magic tattoo, phantom steed, contingency, etc.)

And limited wish is totally worth it for access to other class's spells (when you need to disperse a huge fog effect and your Druid friend didn't prepare control winds), as well as lower level ones on you own spell list that would save the day but you don't know.

Also custom runestaves. Get one to attune to for different situations. One for morning buff spells. Another for social situations. Another for sea travel. Another for entering combat-is-likely situations. Etc.

[Troacctid]

Dip a level of Archivist and go into Mystic Theurge. That'll get you access to all spells up to 6th level, as long as you can find divine scrolls for them.