Clone of a Clone?!

[Xar Zarath]

Quick question: say you're a paranoid wizard (as usual) and you decide to make a Clone of yourself as per the spell. You take your flesh and begin the process. Few months later, boom, a clone is made.

Now since you're paranoid you decide to make more clones but rather than cut up yourself, you cut a piece from the clone you made earlier and cast the Clone spell.

My question is, does that work? Can you make clones from a clone? What are your reasoning?

[Nifft]

This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.

To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.

When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.

The spell duplicates only the original’s body and mind, not its equipment.

A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.

They key bits IMHO:

"This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature."

... and:

"A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved."

... which seems to imply that the clone is NOT a creature until the soul of the original comes to inhabit it.

That's only an implication, of course.

One solution to the paranoia issue is to ask your DM if you can be the "original creature" for multiple clones simultaneously.

[Renen]

You just have some form of regeneration. Then you can just cut off a finger each time and it'll grow back by the time you finish the spell.

[Chronos]

There's also the issue that the tissue sample must be taken from the creature's "living body".

But yeah, you can have multiple clones growing at once. In fact, it's recommended, because a clone body becomes mostly useless if you're not dead when it matures. They also become less useful once you gain levels past what you had when the sample was taken.

[Elkad]

Who else promptly thought of this?


https://youtu.be/pRtVMLwh6mY

[Xar Zarath]

You just have some form of regeneration. Then you can just cut off a finger each time and it'll grow back by the time you finish the spell.

I was thinking more along the lines of cutting the clone's flesh instead. Then I wont have to waste spells to heal and regenerate the lost flesh.

Still a clone is considered to be "an inert piece of flesh which rots if not preserved" so what does that make a clone exactly? Bad chopped liver? Isnt it still living flesh which needs to be kept in a cool and dry place?

[Nifft]

Still a clone is considered to be "an inert piece of flesh which rots if not preserved" so what does that make a clone exactly? Bad chopped liver? Isnt it still living flesh which needs to be kept in a cool and dry place?

It behaves exactly like a corpse: it will rot if you don't cast gentle repose on it or preserve it in some other way.

But "inert" is not well-defined so maybe you can trick your DM into considering it a creature.

Honestly, though, just getting yourself healed is much easier.

[Xar Zarath]

So that means if I make clones of others, I still have to collect from their living ie original body to make more?

*seems like a chore*

[Chronos]

All in all, Clone really isn't a very practical spell. I think it mostly just exists as an excuse for the DM to recur a slain arcane BBEG.

[Nifft]

*seems like a chore*

Necromancy is messy.

:xykon:

[Xar Zarath]

Rather than start a new thread, i'll use this one for another question.

If I have a clone then am killed, I now inhabit the clone. So now, I am considered as a living (read: original) body, which I can then cut up for more clones. Is that correct?

[Jack_Simth]

Rather than start a new thread, i'll use this one for another question.

If I have a clone then am killed, I now inhabit the clone. So now, I am considered as a living (read: original) body, which I can then cut up for more clones. Is that correct?

Under most DMs, yes. The clone is now you. You're you, so yes, you can clone yourself again.

[Nifft]

Rather than start a new thread, i'll use this one for another question.

If I have a clone then am killed, I now inhabit the clone. So now, I am considered as a living (read: original) body, which I can then cut up for more clones. Is that correct?

Yes, AFAICT once your soul inhabits a clone, it's a creature (and it's you), so it can be the target of the next Clone spell.

[Xar Zarath]

Hmm, so that means if I want to make clones of others, I would have to restrain them in some way in order to collect the raw materials (flesh) to cultivate clones of them?

[Nifft]

Hmm, so that means if I want to make clones of others, I would have to restrain them in some way in order to collect the raw materials (flesh) to cultivate clones of them?

Why would you think that?



To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting.


Just hack off a part of the correct volume and teleport back home to your creepy clone lab.

[Xar Zarath]

Just hack off a part of the correct volume and teleport back home to your creepy clone lab.

Technically, how much is 1 cubic inch in terms of a person's raw flesh?

[Pex]

Yes, but there's a side effect of the clone hitting his head on door frames when activated.

[Nifft]

Technically, how much is 1 cubic inch in terms of a person's raw flesh?

Technically, it's one cubic inch. :xykon:

If you're asking what part you can chop off that's easily accessible and about the right volume, then... maybe take the middle two fingers from an adult male, that's probably a bit more than one cubic inch but it'll do. A whole hand or foot would certainly be sufficient.

[Xar Zarath]

Technically since a clone is an inert lump of flesh which rots if not preserved...is a clone a living thing but in a comatose state (i.e no soul) or just dead but you inhabit it and it kickstarts back to life?


*bump* for this question

[Xar Zarath]

So a clone is just an object till a soul fills it up? or is it a brain dead body that needs life support?

[Jack_Simth]

So a clone is just an object till a soul fills it up? or is it a brain dead body that needs life support?

I'd be inclined to say "yes". D&D supports the category of living objects, after all (normal plants - mentioned in the plant creature type entry). You have a thing that has no awareness of itself or it's surroundings: It's an object. It's a full body, though, so once the growth is finished, if you're not doing something to keep it up, it'll start to rot and quickly become useless for you.

[Bad Wolf]

Hmm. Off topic, but would you be able to inhabit it with Magic Jar/turn it into an undead?