Healer Feat / Simple RAW Thread II

[wasgreg]

So, I decided to start reading the SIMPLE RAW THREAD II. And upon reading the first question and response, I find myself in disagreement. I tried a search of healer feat,to see if in the forums it had already been discussed. But my forum search mastery is nill or I rolled a 1. Because I got a plethora of unrelated threads.

So here goes...

From _felagund

Q001 Healer Feat: I stabilize a comrade and she regains 1 HP. On the next round can I heal her using another healing kit? Only the 2nd bullet point limits its use to 1 per rest.

Thanks in advance!

From asorel

A 1 Because the second bullet point stipulates "from this feat," not "in this manner," the once per short rest limitation applies to the stabilization recover as well.

I gotta say, I disagree with this answer.

My reasoning is that rules go from general to specific. Each bullet point makes a specific rule. If the limitation were for the entire feat, it would have been written outside the bullet points or written within both bullet points.

Also, by limiting it to once per short or long rest on both options, it makes the first option mostly obsolete. Except for the rare side cases where one only wants to stabilize someone to one hit point, the second option would almost always be the choice as ANY amount of healing stabilizes.


I appreciate thoughts on this or a link where it has been discussed before.

[DivisibleByZero]

I gotta say, I disagree with this answer.

"The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest."
Using a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature grants one HP when you have this feat. Not normally, but only when you have the feat. The stabilization isn't what grants that one HP. The feat grants it, via the stabilization.

Disagree all you want to. The answer given was the correct one.

[wasgreg]

"The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest."
Using a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature grants one HP when you have this feat. Not normally, but only when you have the feat. The stabilization isn't what grants that one HP. The feat grants it, via the stabilization.

Disagree all you want to. The answer given was the correct one.



"The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.", this is under a separate bullet point though. Separate rule. Would you remove the bonus to strength gained from heavy weapon master if the feat user was not wearing heavy armor? The second bullet point requires the use of heavy armor for damage reduction.


EDIT: I do agree that if the creature were healed before with the feat, and later on it was needing stabilzation, that the one hit point could not be applied. So done in reverse order it would not work.

[DivisibleByZero]

"The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.", this is under a separate bullet point though. Separate rule. Would you remove the bonus to strength gained from heavy weapon master if the feat user was not wearing heavy armor? The second bullet point requires the use of heavy armor for damage reduction.

Entries and items are not meant to be read in a vacuum. They are meant to be read in their entirety.
It doesn't matter if that is listed under a different bullet point. It is not a separate rule. It is all part of the same rule.
Have you regained HP "from that feat" yet? Yes? Then you can't regain more HP from that feat again until after you've rested.
It doesn't say that you can't regain HP in this way until you finish short or long rest.
It says you can't regain HP from this feat until you finish a short or long rest.
Which bullet point states that is irrelevant. What's relevant is that it was stated at all.

Does the Heavy Armor Master feat's Str gain tell you when it is allowed to be used? No? Then it is always available.

You're reading the rules like a lawyer. Doing so is a mistake in 5e.
The answer given was the correct one.

[HoarsHalberd]

We already have a simple RAW thread II. Please direct your questions there.

Aah sorry, my misunderstanding.

[DivisibleByZero]

We already have a simple RAW thread II. Please direct your questions there.

And we also have rules for that thread, wherein it is stated that discussion about answers be taken to a different thread.
He directed his question exactly where he should have.

[wasgreg]

Entries and items are not meant to be read in a vacuum. They are meant to be read in their entirety.
It doesn't matter if that is listed under a different bullet point. It is not a separate rule. It is all part of the same rule.
Have you regained HP "from that feat" yet? Yes? Then you can't regain more HP from that feat again until after you've rested.
It doesn't say that you can't regain HP in this way until you finish short or long rest.
It say you can't regain HP from this feat until you finish a short or long rest.
Which bullet point states that is irrelevant. What's relevant is that it was stated. at all

Does the Heavy Armor Master feat's Str gain tell you when it is allowed to be used? No? Then it is always available.

You're reading the rules like a lawyer. Doing so is a mistake in 5e.
The answer give was the correct one.

LOL You would be the first to say that I'm a rules lawyer. I've always played RAII (rules as I intend :P) So, maybe it is a case of that. Still, in writing, we use bullet points to separate items in a list, sometimes for ease of reading, sometimes to show a step-by-step process and sometimes to show a separaton of ideas. As the stabilazation healing is made obsolete in the games I run, I will house rule it the other way, if the consensus follows the above belief. I'll just be aware of it when joining another's game.

Salut

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm not calling you a rules lawyer. But in attempting to read each bullet point as a separate entry, even though the point in question calls out the feat as a whole rather than the bullet individually, you were indeed reading that as a rules lawyer might.
You may not be one, but you were channeling one there for a moment. :smallwink:

Heck, it may even be the case that the RAI and the RAW don't align here, and that the 1hp from stabilization wasn't intended to count for these purposes.
We don't know.
All we know is that the question was posed in the RAW thread, and the answer given adheres to the RAW.
Feel free to houserule it to meet your interpretation of the RAI. But that interpretation has no relevance in the RAW thread, unless and until we have some developer clarification stating that the RAI and the RAW don't align.

I'm an RAI guy myself, so I feel you. But that isn't what that thread is for (with exception only if you have an official or a designer source to cite).

[ImSAMazing]

Well, I cant really add something to this discussion, but the Healer feat is sure awesome until lvl 5.