Bob the ridiculously average guy

[Spore]

Greetings friends,

this thread is about exploring the best options a perfectly average human (10 across the board!) with standard WBL would have. How powerful could you make a character like Bob without making it unbelievable (like Bob being a graduated wizard with Int 10). For the sake of the exercise we should stay within the core and base classes. I like the hybrid classes mechanically but Bob isn't even talented enough to excel at a single class.

1) Bob, the untalented Wizard. You could have him be a rich child (with the Rich parents background trait paying for his first stat boost enabling his spellcasting) and start to build your stat boosting items yourself. Because after all you are a human and start with two feats but can't use your class features due to low attributes. You can cast 9th level spells eventually and just feel like a commoner that rises to power with the help of magic.

More likely is

2) Bob the Rogue. He can hide in crowds as he is this average. If he optimizes the thief side of things he is quick to grab cash, valuables and even well protected magic trinkets. Because being in a PC class is just that good. He then needs to network well and get to know a lot of important secrets because he really cant build on his insane charisma to do his work for him. Once you know the governor is aided by criminals and have evidence he is your puppet. It doesn't matter if your Dexterity sits at 11 or 20.

What do I expect from this thread?
A realistical portrayal for a bog average guy and opportunities to rise in power. Danger is welcome but the build should show a bit of certainity. (You wouldn't infiltrate the thieves' guild's lair with a 1st level rogue with his important skills all being on 4). Unbelievable starting situations are not welcome. You can pick the wizard class with Int 10 (and only cast cantrips) but I expect an explanation storywise why you are accepted into the ranks of wizards when you can't even cast a 1st level spell (and thus finish your training and really enter the class). Classes like Paladins are not welcome unless refluffed (because Paladins are chosen ones - and chosen ones are important at the very start of their quests. I want the hero to grow into his role).

[Kurald Galain]

How about Bob the lazy druid (or summoner) who does absolutely nothing, lets his animal companion (or eidolon) do all the heavy work, and mooches XP off it like a true mooch?

[Renen]

Bob the cube...

[Second Arrow]

Seconding summoner as an option, it'll let you contribute to the party regardless of your base stats.

Looking into nature oracle for a smart mount might also be an option, and if you take the alternate racial trait eye for talent you can start the game with a horse that is almost as smart as you are (Int 8) as a full scaling animal companion.

[Oberon Kenobi]

TBH, I think a perfectly average guy would have an NPC class and accompanying NPC wealth-by-level.

He wouldn't be an Expert or Adept, because he's not adept at anything, let alone an expert in anything. Aristocrat is right out. Warrior is stretching it. So he's a Commoner.

Before going any farther with that chain of thought, you say Pathfinder but also say that he has rank 4 skills at level 1, so you should probably clarify whether you're looking for Pathfinder or 3.5 builds.

[grarrrg]

you say Pathfinder but also say that he has rank 4 skills at level 1, so you should probably clarify whether you're looking for Pathfinder or 3.5 builds.

If a Skill is a Class Skill you get a +3 bonus if you have points in it.
So you put 1 point into your class skills at 1st level and effectively get +4 total.

[Spore]

Seconding summoner as an option, it'll let you contribute to the party regardless of your base stats.

Looking into nature oracle for a smart mount might also be an option, and if you take the alternate racial trait eye for talent you can start the game with a horse that is almost as smart as you are (Int 8) as a full scaling animal companion.

I am intrigued on how you would explain the bond to the summoner in this case.

"Oh look, this guy is literally the least remarkable creature in miles around. Let's bond with him!"

[rockdeworld]

How about Bob the lazy druid (or summoner)
Funny you should say that (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi&page=7?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or-What-are-we#324)

By the way, I support that link because Half-Elves are more average than Humans. If you don't optimize much, know that Humans are awesome.

[Socratov]

I think Bob sold his soul to supernatural creatures and became a warlock. from there on out he pretty much doesn't need any abilityscores...

[Spore]

I think Bob sold his soul to supernatural creatures and became a warlock. from there on out he pretty much doesn't need any abilityscores...

Can you slap the Warlock class into PF and it is fine?

[Socratov]

Can you slap the Warlock class into PF and it is fine?
Well, I don't think porting the Warlock to PF and updating the skill list (maybe upping the HD one category) wouldn't change much about the class. It wasn't Op before, and it won't really be after (in the 3.5 tier system it's believed to be very high T4/very low T3).As for the invocations, I think they mesh quite well with Pathfinder...

[GreyBlack]

Challenge accepted! Now to go to the books....

ETA: Question on races: Do we apply the racial +2 to whatever stat we want? Or are our stats just a flat 10 even with racial bonuses added?

[grarrrg]

ETA: Question on races: Do we apply the racial +2 to whatever stat we want? Or are our stats just a flat 10 even with racial bonuses added?

Given the Wizard example in the opening post, I do believe it is all 10's AFTER racial +2 (and/or just ignore the racial stat boost).
Not that having one 12 would be grossly different than not.

[LooseCannoneer]

I'd second Summoner, then taking item creation feats since those don't have stat requirements. Build your way to higher stats.

[Spore]

Not that having one 12 would be grossly different than not.

It defeats the exercise for spellcasters to start up without castable spells.

[Second Arrow]

I am intrigued on how you would explain the bond to the summoner in this case.

"Oh look, this guy is literally the least remarkable creature in miles around. Let's bond with him!"

To be honest, I'd probably make it so that the Eidolon tried its hand at calling something, messed up horribly, and ended up with Bob. As a result, it is actively trying to cause its own demise, recklessly diving into any conflict that it can, in order to minimise the time spent with its "summoner"...

[Spore]

To be honest, I'd probably make it so that the Eidolon tried its hand at calling something, messed up horribly, and ended up with Bob. As a result, it is actively trying to cause its own demise, recklessly diving into any conflict that it can, in order to minimise the time spent with its "summoner"...

I like it. The summoner's ritual then contains of throwing up his hands and running in circles screaming: "Oh my, oh dear, oh gods, help me, HELP me!" And with an ethereal displeased grunt or sigh the eidolon appears rolling its eyes when assessing the situation.

[Psyren]

I am intrigued on how you would explain the bond to the summoner in this case.

"Oh look, this guy is literally the least remarkable creature in miles around. Let's bond with him!"

Joking aside, there's lots of ways you can justify this.

"Do not be afraid; I am sworn to defend your family."
"Thank you for removing the thorn from my paw tentacle, BobTheAverage."
"So, it turns out that weird book you found and read in that musty library has my True Name in it. Sucks to be me."
"My punishment, handed down by {insert deity/powerful outsider here} is to debase myself before the most pathetic mortal I can find. Try not to be too excited."

etc.


Can you slap the Warlock class into PF and it is fine?

Sure but you'd want to buff it a bit.

[Eldonauran]

My immediate response is to start the character as a Rogue to get as many skill points and class skills as possible. Focus on being a support character. Use your feats for skill related options. You are not naturally good at ANYTHING (which represents positive modifiers to ability scores) but you can train yourself to be better (skill ranks). UMD is your friend!

Focus on using alchemical items that allow for preset saves in the beginning, anything is better than what your stats will provide. Zerk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs/zerk) is a good drug to be addicted to if you want some sort of positive STR modifier for battle that will undoubtedly happen. Don't forget Rich Parents (or equivalent) to be able to afford your habit! The other trait would need to be something to boost saves vs negative effects of Drugs.

Come second level, use your exposure to the Zerk drug to flavor your sudden entry into the Barbarian class. Between doses of Zerk and Barbarian rage, you can expect +5 to +8 to your strength score, making you able to actually participate in battle.

Third level, Alchemist. Sure, you can't make your extracts just yet, but you get that Mutagen! A stable source of alchemical strength bonus that doesn't impact your CON. Also, 3rd level feat for additional traits. Pick up Unstable Mutagen (allowing a second mutagen to be prepared alongside with the first) and another of your choice. Magical Knack would be good, because...

Fourth level, ability point immediately goes into Intelligence and you take a level of Wizard.

From here on out, build your Gish as standard. Focus on buffs, get craft wondrous items so that you can make the sorely needed +6 items yourself at half the cost. Take levels in Eldritch Knight to keep a decent BAB. Shifting shape could be more beneficial to you then not.


The whole concept is that of an average nobody that turns to a life of crime/drugs to make something of himself and along the way, discovers that while his physical limitations are average, his ability to grow is not. By tapping into his own personal aura (Alchemist casting) that he would never have discovered without mind/body altering substances, the character unlocks the secret to manipulating the forces of the universe and builds his way from there.

[dascarletm]

I am intrigued on how you would explain the bond to the summoner in this case.

"Oh look, this guy is literally the least remarkable creature in miles around. Let's bond with him!"

The Eidolon takes the form of a very beautiful waifu. In 80% of all anime of this type the most boring average guy has some sort of celestial being fall from the sky on him, and due to <insert mythological being> code she must now serve him as he is her new master for eternity.

[Psyren]

The Eidolon takes the form of a very beautiful waifu. In 80% of all anime of this type the most boring average guy has some sort of celestial being fall from the sky on him, and due to <insert mythological being> code she must now serve him as he is her new master for eternity.

See also:

Tenchi Muyo
Ah My Goddess
Chobits
Girls Bravo
Elfen Lied
etc.

[Spore]

The Eidolon takes the form of a very beautiful waifu. In 80% of all anime of this type the most boring average guy has some sort of celestial being fall from the sky on him, and due to <insert mythological being> code she must now serve him as he is her new master for eternity.

I didn't know how much of Anime is blatant softcore porn and wish fullfilment... At least the Digimon franchise had the decency to give their protagonists a one dimenisonal character trait each.

[dascarletm]

I didn't know how much of Anime is blatant softcore porn and wish fullfilment... At least the Digimon franchise had the decency to give their protagonists a one dimenisonal character trait each.

Sometimes they get "I'm afraid of girls" or "extremely perverted" or "a really nice guy that is misunderstood."

but always, ALWAYS, their parents don't live at their home...:smallwink:

[Beowulf DW]

I didn't know how much of Anime is blatant softcore porn and wish fullfilment... At least the Digimon franchise had the decency to give their protagonists a one dimenisonal character trait each.

...You haven't been here very long, have you?

[Psyren]

I didn't know how much of Anime is blatant softcore porn and wish fullfilment...

It's not all anime, but definitely the entire harem genre is this.

[Socratov]

I didn't know how much of Anime is blatant softcore porn and wish fullfilment... At least the Digimon franchise had the decency to give their protagonists a one dimenisonal character trait each.

Welcome to the Internet. May you enjoy your stay.

[Spore]

Welcome to the Internet. May you enjoy your stay.

Wasn't meaning Hentai when I say Anime. ;)

[grarrrg]

If it helps the exact quote is:


The Eidolon takes the form of a very beautiful waifu. In 80% of all anime of this type the most boring average guy has some sort of celestial being fall from the sky on him...

So in 80% of all anime where a dude has a hot chick fall on him, a dude has a hot chick fall on him.

[Malroth]

If it helps the exact quote is:



So in 80% of all anime where a dude has a hot chick fall on him, a dude has a hot chick fall on him.

To be fair though Tenchi Masaki had at least 15 levels of Psychic warrior before the girls fell into his lap.

[atemu1234]

Sometimes they get "I'm afraid of girls" or "extremely perverted" or "a really nice guy that is misunderstood."

but always, ALWAYS, their parents don't live at their home...:smallwink:

Or '******* everyone likes because reasons'.

[Beowulf DW]

To be fair though Tenchi Masaki had at least 15 levels of Psychic warrior before the girls fell into his lap.

Looks more like Gifted Blade Soulknife, to me. Pretty much his whole shtick is using a bright glowing blade and/or making weapons and shields pop up out of nowhere.

[MorgromTheOrc]

Not sure if it's been said but synthesis and just play like a melee character, mechanics wise you are just an actually pretty decent melee character. Fluff wise this is average joe(or Bob) acquires magic power/powerful companion and gets boosted up to above average. Think first series naruto and the nine tailed fox, or even better shinichi and migi.

[Psyren]

To be fair though Tenchi Masaki had at least 15 levels of Psychic warrior before the girls fell into his lap.

In his world this IS "average" :smalltongue: even the Team Mascot and Bratty Half-Pint are hidden badasses after all.

[dascarletm]

If it helps the exact quote is:



So in 80% of all anime where a dude has a hot chick fall on him, a dude has a hot chick fall on him.

This type refers to harems specifically, or perhaps more specifically anime where women inexplicably like Mr. Average.

[Spore]

Think first series naruto and the nine tailed fox, or even better shinichi and migi.

But it's actually Digimon Frontier what they're referencing.

[grarrrg]

Sometimes they get "I'm afraid of girls" or "extremely perverted" or "a really nice guy that is misunderstood."

but always, ALWAYS, their parents don't live at their home...:smallwink:

Tenchi lived with his Father in at least one of those alternate universes.