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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class YASH - Yet Another Samurai Homebrew (input welcomed)



NevinPL
2015-08-16, 05:54 PM
I've created this even before thinking about making YAFF\LFI, so now it doesn't look as "magnificent", but I think it still could be of use, even if only for orient oriented



YASH - Yet Another Samurai Homebrew


Samuraiís are warriors originating from nobility, from far, exotic lands.
Their main task is to serve their feudal lord as a military commander, or a member of elite combat unit. Beside vassal dependency, loyalty and honor play a very important role in a samuraiís life.

Adventures: Samuraiís main task is to serve his lord, senior, so they donít seek adventures, just complete tasks given. But that doesnít preclude traveling, helping others, or allying with adventures, as far as it helps to complete task they were given.

Characteristics: What truly distinguishes a samurai from normal fighter, is his commitment to his lord, house which is showed by samurai's honor, loyalty, and obedience. Good and Evil for Samurai are indifferent, as long as they donít interfere with tasks his lord has given him.

Alignment: Samuraiís life is determined by rigorous list of rules of feudal lord-vassal relationship, which only lawful characters can cope with.

Religion: Samuraiís generally donít worship any gods, because their lord provides all the answers they need. If they do, then they follow lawful militant gods like Heironeous, Hextor, or Saint Cuthbert.

Background: Samurais come from noble families, connected, in one way or another, to the local ruler. But there are instances where honor of becoming a Samurai, is awarded for heroic deeds of an ordinary warrior.

Races: Only lawful races can cope with strict and rigorous rules of being a Samurai. Dwarf, with their clan structure, and lawfulness are ideal materials for samurais. Elves, and humans often become Samurais too.

Other Classes: Samurai can cooperate with almost anyone, if the task at hand, his senior requires it. Of course with classes that also live by some code, like paladins, or monks, itís easier than with, for example, rogues.

Role: Samurai serves role similar to Fighter. Maybe less versatile, in terms of fighting, but he makes up for his shortcomings with education, and additional abilities.



Game rule information:


Samurai have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Since the Samurai is a melee fighter, Strength is most important for him. Dexterity and Constitution help him being more effective as warrior. Charisma governs his special abilities, so itís important too.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Die: d10.
Starting Gold: 6d4 x 10 (average 150 gp)

Class Skills
The samuraiís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ◊ 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

http://i.imgur.com/l08wszc.jpg

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, Katana (masterwork bastard sword equivalent), Wakizashi (masterwork short sword equivalent, that deals slashing damage), with all armor (heavy, medium, and light), but not with shields.

Ancestral heritage: Samurai begins play with two swords - a katana and a wakizashi. The Katana is a samuraiís main weapon and a symbol of his status, his pride, losing which has some unpleasant consequences. The Wakizashi is a backup sword, used when the katana is too cumbersome, or not available (e.g. left outside house as according to custom).
If katana is stolen, destroyed, etc., samurai suffers a -4 penalty to his Charisma score, and a -2 to attack and damage rolls until he recovers it or acquire a new one from head of his house, his lord.
When dealing with a character that understands the meaning of loosing a katana (eg. other samurai), the samurai who lost it suffers an additional penalty to Diplomacy and Gather Information check equal to half his Samurai level.
Both weapons are martial weapons for a samurai.

Bonus feat: At 1st level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the samurai gains a bonus feat. He chooses them from the fighter bonus feat list. He can choose feats that are reserved only for the fighter (like Weapon Specialization), by substituting his samurai levels instead of the required fighter one.

Kata (Ex): A samurai constantly improves himself through exercises called Kata. They improve both his muscles and mind.
Samurai gains his first kata at his first samurai class level. Every 2 levels thereafter he gains a new kata. Each kata grants some bonus, and each kata improves as samurai gains levels, but he needs to activate them first, and can have only a limited numbers of katas active simultaneously.
To gain kata bonus, samurai needs to spend at least 20 minutes exercising for each kata he wants to activate. Associated bonus remains active for 24 hours.
Initially samurai can have only one kata active, but it increases by 1 every 7 levels, to a maximum of 3 kata bonuses at 15 level.
Abilities, bonuses from Sude, and Mekura shi kata are always active, and donít count against the maximum number of katas active.
"Level", "levels" mean samurai in question samurai class levels.

Sude: at 1st level, samurai learns basic attack and defense technique which allows him to make unarmed attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. They still deal nonlethal damage.
Additionally, samurai gains a bonus to his unarmed damage, equal to his level. It's still non-lethal damage.
Torippingu: at 3th level, samuraiís training improves his motor coordination which manifests as a +1 bonus to trip checks to resist being tripped.
Bonus improves by +1 every 3 levels above 3th level.
Chansu: at 5th level, samuraiís heightened by constant training senses grant him +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity.
Bonus improves by +1 every 5 levels above 5th level.
Shinkei: at 7th level, further motor coordination training grants samurai a +1 circumstance bonus to Reflex saving throws.
Bonus improves by +1 every 3 levels above 7th level.
Shōten: at 9th level, thanks to rigorous weapon training samurai gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with katana or wakizashi, but only if he uses the weapon with both hands.
Bonus improves by +1 every 2 levels above 9th level, and stacks with the one granted by Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus.
Higai: at 11th level, further weapon training grants samurai a bonus to damage rolls made with katana or wakizashi, equal to the damage dice of said weapon (e.g. +1d10 for medium sized katana), but only if he uses the weapon with both hands.
Bonus improves by +2 points of damage every 2 levels above 11th level, and stacks with the one granted by Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization.
Mekura shi: at 13th level, samuraiís senses are so keen and adept in cooperating, that he gains Blindsight out to 20 feet.
Kiun: at 15th level samurai's keen reflexes allow him to perform additional number of attacks of opportunity. He can perform total number of attacks of opportunity per round, up to number of his attacks per round, and isn't limited by one attack of opportunity per one target rule.
Yo keru: at 17th level samurai's superhuman mobility grants him a +5 dodge bonus to his armor class.
Bonus improves by +1 every level above 17th level.
Gunshū: at 19th level samurai had seen and participated in so many battles, that he knows not only how to fight in a crowd, but also how use it to his benefit. This manifests as +2 bonus to attack rolls and armor class per opponent in a 5 feet radius.
Additionally flanking creatures don't gain the +2 attack bonus against him, but he still can be flanked.

Loyalty (Su): The Samurai gets a saving throw bonus against charm, or dominate spells, effects or abilities that are created by characters other than ones that can command him (e.g. not the head of his house, his senior, etc.). The same amount is applied as a penalty when itís done by someone who can command him.
The amount equals to one third his class level (minimum 1)

Strength of personality (Ex): Instead of Wisdom, samurai can use his Charisma modifier on Will saving throws.

Ibuki (Ex): Ibuki is a breathing technique that allows samurai to get rid of some negative effects.
At 2nd level after spending one minute on meditation and breathing, samurai can daily heal the amount of nonlethal damage equal to his samurai level ◊ his Charisma bonus. He doesnít have to use it all at once, but unused points are wasted.
In other respects, it works like paladins Lay on Hands ability.
At 5th level after spending 10 minutes on meditation and breathing, samurai can ignore the effects of being Fatigued for number of hours equal to half his samurai level.
Any effect that would make samurai exhausted, instead renders him fatigued, and he can only become exhausted by already being fatigued and being victim to another exhaustion effect.
At 8th level after spending 10 minutes on meditation and breathing, samurai can cancel, dispel, etc., one of the following effects that are affecting him, per 10 minutes of meditation:

Confused,
Dazed*,
Dazzled,
Nauseated,
Sickened
Stunned,


One with the sword (Su): For a samurai, the katana is something more than just a sword. Itís a pride of his and his house, a part of himself with which he has a mystical connection. One with the sword works only with katana that belongs to samurai using this ability.
Unless noted otherwise, this ability is always active, but parts each ability can be suppressed, and reactivated at will.
At 2nd level samurai can add his Charisma bonus to disarm checks to avoid being disarmed. This bonus works with any other forceful methods of removing samuraiís katana (Teleport Object for example).
At 5th level he can add his Charisma bonus to his katana hardness.
At 8th level each +1 katana enhancement bonus, can grant samurai whoís wielding it a +1 bonus to Will saving throws.
At 11th level by communicating with his ancestors via the katana (swift action), samurai can get an insight bonus equal to half his samurai level, to one of the next following checks:

any craft check,
any knowledge check,
critical confirmation roll,
initiative roll.

At 14th level samurai can "awake" his katana, which then becomes an intelligent item with the following characteristics:
Alignment same as samurai's; Intelligence, Wisdom score equal to 10 + samurai's Intelligence, and Wisdom bonus respectively, Charisma score equal to samurai's Charisma score; Telepathy; 120 ft. blindsense; Ego score 0
Lesser Powers: Comprehend languages at will, fog cloud 3/day
Greater Powers: Haste 3/day
Personality: Awaken katana's personality is similar to the samurai which created it, but it's completely loyal, and subservient to him. Only goal it may have, is to serve his samurai, and it will never try to dominate him.
If katana becomes intelligent it stays intelligent (i.e. you can't suppress it like other abilities), but in the hands other than the samurai who awoke it, such katana is considered non-intelligent.

Fearless (Su): A samurai of 3rd level or higher, is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).

Kiai shout (Su): As a swift action, the samurai can use a special shout to strengthen himself, or to dishearten opponents.
Samurai can use this ability times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma bonus.
At 3rd level samurai can add his Charisma bonus to melee weapon damage rolls for one round.
At 6th level samurai can use this shout against others. Enemies in a 30 feet radius who can hear it must make a Will saving throw with DC equal to 10 + half samuraiís level + samuraiís Charisma modifier, or become Shaken for number of rounds equal to samuraiís Charisma bonus (minimum 1).

Samuraiís charge (Ex): Samurai of 4th level or higher can perform an improved charge.
At 4th level during a charge he can turn number of times equal to his Dexterity modifier (minimum 1), but any one turn canít be greater than 90į
At 7th level, the samurai may make attacks along the length of his charge in addition to the normal attack at the end. The samurai may make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus against any one creature he can reach before he reaches his target. At 11th level, the samurai may make two such additional attacks. At 16th level, the samurai may make three such additional attacks.
These additional attack provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone other than the intended target.

Death before dishonor (Ex): For a samurai dishonor is a worse fate than death. Because of that, he can act when other characters canít.
At 9th level samurai can charge even when Fatigued, but suffers 1d4 nonlethal damage for every 5 feet he runs.
Additionally, he dies when his negative HP are below or equal to 10 + Constitution score.
At 12th level he can disregard being Disabled, and act like he wasnít, but still loses HP if performs strenuous actions, and instead losing 1 HP, he loses 2.
At 15th level while having negative HP samurai can act like he was Disabled (it canít be disregarded by this ability previous entry), but instead losing 1 HP due to strenuous activities, he loses 1d4.

Spirit sight (Su): Samurai of 10th level or higher has sight so keen, that he can see both invisible, and ethereal like when using See invisibility, and see through disguises like when using Discern Shapechanger, but you donít need to concentrate when doing the later.
This ability is usable as a standard action, with duration of 1 minute per samurai level, number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma bonus.



Ex-Samurais
Samurai which stops being lawful, or who incurs dishonor (running from the battlefield, killing an unarmed, for example), or who blatantly opposes his senior will, losses all of the samurai abilities that require Charisma, and also Loyalty, Fearless, Death before dishonor. He may not progress any farther in levels as a samurai until he atones for his violations (like with the Atonement spell for example), provided his senior allows such atonement (sometimes only a ritual suicide can be the only way of doing this).

Human Samurai Starting Package
Armor: Chainmail (+5 AC, armor check penalty Ė5, speed 20 ft., 40 lb.).
Weapons: Katana (1d10, crit 19Ė20/◊2, 4lb, one-handed, slashing).
Wakizashi (1d6, crit 19Ė20/◊2, 2lb, light, slashing).
Skill Selection: Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + Int modifier.

http://i.imgur.com/lVyGCWt.jpg

Feat: Power Attack.
Bonus Feat (Human): Improved Initiative
Gear: Backpack with waterskin, one dayís trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel.
Gold: 2d4 gp.


Appendix: Samuraiís gear

Katana: iconic samuraiís sword. For him much more than just a weapon - a part of him, his house, which could have been passed down for generations.
In mechanics terms, katana is a masterwork (+1 bonus on your attack rolls) bastard sword. Samurai can use it one-handed without any additional feats. He can also use the Weapon Finesse feat with it.

Wakizashi: samuraiís backup sword, used when katana canít be.
In mechanics terms, wakizashi is a masterwork (+1 bonus on your attack rolls) short sword, that deals slashing damage.

http://i.imgur.com/Z672iTi.jpg

Dō-maru: is just a part of the Ō-yoroi armor, used as a whole. Itís meant for ordinary soldiers, infantry, for which mobility, low weight is more important than protection. Most often comes in form of a lammeral cuirass.

Ō-yoroi: is an armor thatís a status symbol of a samurai, similar to katana. Rarely a non-samurai wears this armor.
Full armor consists of parts (most often lamellar) like: helmet, mask, armored shoulder pads and sleeves, cuirass, greaves, etc.
Protection wise, Ō-yoroi fits between Banded mail and Full plate, but allows for a greater mobility than either of them.

http://i.imgur.com/D9Hu8uT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/STPCDhF.jpg
Wikimedia Commons CC BY 2.5

http://i.imgur.com/YRtDwaG.jpg
Wikimedia Commons CC BY SA 4.0


Pdf version:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ja61pmjqcl98dex/YASH%20-%20Yet%20Another%20Samurai%20Homebrew%20v1.03.pdf

Razanir
2015-08-16, 07:21 PM
Kata (Ex): A samurai constantly improves himself through exercises called Kata. They improve both his muscles and mind.
To gain the associated bonus, samurai needs to spend at least 20 minutes exercising for each ďlevelĒ of bonus he wants to acquire. Associated bonus remains active for 24 hours.
Initially samurai can have only one ďlevelĒ of bonus active, but it increases by 1 every 7 level to a maximum of 3 Kata bonuses at 15 level.
Abilities from levels 1 and 19 are always active, and donít count against the maximum number of Kata bonuses.

I don't understand how it works. Here, it sounds like you can pick up to three, and put arbitrarily many levels into each, but further on, it sounds like you can put up to 20 levels in and certain ones unlock more bonuses.

Also, if you're going to have a code (bushido), you should detail some of what it involves.

NevinPL
2015-08-17, 06:01 AM
I don't understand how it works. Here, it sounds like you can pick up to three, and put arbitrarily many levels into each, but further on, it sounds like you can put up to 20 levels in and certain ones unlock more bonuses.

Yes you can have maximum three of them (plus the first and the last), and they improve while you gain levels, so I don't understand the arbitrary bit. Example:
a 12 level samurai that spends at least 60 minutes exercising (3x20), gains:

+3 bonus to trip checks to resist being tripped (+1 base + 2 since bonus improves by +1 every 3 levels above 4),
+2 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity (+1 base +1 since bonus improves by +1 every 5 levels above 7),
+1 circumstance bonus to Reflex saving throws (+1 base, no level up improvement).

plus the first and the last one.

What 20 levels ? More bonuses ?


Also, if you're going to have a code (bushido), you should detail some of what it involves.
I don't see why. It's just a name for what Paladins do (sans the being good bit), and I don't see a "Paladins Pious Path" detailed in PHB.
This:

...Bushido Code - list of rules that emphasizes honor, loyalty, and obedience.
should be enough for about 90% of people, the rest can read, watch relevant works.

Razanir
2015-08-17, 08:51 AM
Yes you can have maximum three of them (plus the first and the last), and they improve while you gain levels. What 20 levels ? More bonuses ?

I think the problem is that "level" has too many meanings in D&D. All you need to do is call the different abilities something other than "levels", and it'll be much clearer.


for each ďlevelĒ of bonus he wants to acquire

Based off this, I'm expecting a mechanic where I get an arbitrary number of points to invest into different abilities. This is supported by clauses like "Bonus improves by +1 every 3 levels above 4." Except it seems weird to have 4 levels before the bonus can increase at all, so coupled with the fact that the level it unlocks at always matches the number I have to go above, it now sounds like I can put levels in and they unlock more abilities. So if I only put 1 level in, I only get the first ability. 4, and I get the first two. 20, and I get all 7 abilities and some of them are stronger. So I'd have, for example, +6 to checks to avoid being tripped (+1, +5 because I put in 16 levels over 4).

I think a better way to word the mechanic would be:


A samurai constantly improves himself through exercises called Kata. They improve both his muscles and mind. At 1st level and every 3 levels afterward, a samurai learns a new kata bonus. To gain bonuses, he spends 20 minutes exercising for every bonus he wants to gain. Any acquired bonuses last for 24 hours, or until the samurai rests. As such, the exercises are typically done in the morning, but can be switched out later in the day by exercising again. A samurai may always gain the bonus to unarmed attacks and blindsight, as long is he is of an appropriate level. Beyond that, he may activate another one at 4th level, and an additional one every 6 levels afterward.

Exact same flavor, but it's much clearer how it works, because you aren't using the word "level" for everything.


I don't see why. It's just a name for what Paladins do (sans the being good bit), and I don't see a "Paladins Pious Path" detailed in PHB.

No, not really. The Pally's code:


Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladinís code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Associates
While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

In other words, be lawful good, be exalted if your DM's strict, and don't associate with anyone who offends you.

On the other hand, bushido was 8 specific virtues. Rectitude (implicit in pally), courage (not required of a paladin), benevolence (not part of the pally's code, because a samurai wouldn't care whom he helps), politeness (not part of the pally's code), honesty (nominally in the pally's code, but actually about thrift), honor (technically in the pally's code, but to nowhere near the extent of bushido), loyalty (not part of the pally's code, because the paladin would sooner attack an evil leader), character (implicitly in the pally's code).


This should be enough for about 90% of people, the rest can read, watch relevant works.

It's common courtesy to describe a code if you're going to require one of a class. For bushido, that would be, at the very least, listing those 7/8 virtues and including short blurbs.

EDIT: Also, one amazing feature to go with not provoking attacks of opportunity would be to boost unarmed damage like a monk. Not overpowered, but it makes the ability actually worth it.

NevinPL
2015-08-17, 11:10 AM
I think the problem is that "level" has too many meanings in D&D. All you need to do is call the different abilities something other than "levels", and it'll be much clearer.
I admit I don't understand your problem. There's an ability that changes with character level, and using ""level"", not "level" for each new level of it, is confusing ? ?!
I explained it in the previous post as best as I can. Can't explain it better. Sorry. But I will add: "samurai"\"character" where's appropriate, and you have my permission to use "step", or "floor" or whatever floats your boat if you want.


Except it seems weird to have 4 levels before the bonus can increase at all...
I find it weird that you can acquire an ability, and it improves not only from that point forward, but backwards too, so lets call it a difference of opinions.


...so coupled with the fact that the level it unlocks at always matches the number I have to go above, it now sounds like I can put levels in and they unlock more abilities. So if I only put 1 level in, I only get the first ability. 4, and I get the first two. 20, and I get all 7 abilities and some of them are stronger. So I'd have, for example, +6 to checks to avoid being tripped (+1, +5 because I put in 16 levels over 4).
Did you look at the table at all?
Where did I wrote about putting levels in it ? And from where you would take those levels to put in ? How much you could have ?


I think a better way to word the mechanic would be:
You're using the word "level", in the same matter you find confusing when I do it...


Exact same flavor, but it's much clearer how it works, because you aren't using the word "level" for everything.
Maybe for you.


No, not really. The Pally's code:
Yes really. But for some reason, you find nitpicking, and obsessing about minutia important, helpful.


On the other hand, bushido was 8 specific virtues.
And katana often weighted less than I stated. Not to mention wasn't mystical, so what's your point ?


It's common courtesy to describe a code if you're going to require one of a class. For bushido, that would be, at the very least, listing those 7/8 virtues and including short blurbs.
I don't "require it", I only mention it as a fluff, flavor, etc.
I've explained it enough. If it's not enough - one can do what I wrote earlier. If that someone doesn't have Internet access, then there's no problem at all for obvious reasons. But if someone acquires this samurai homebrew despite that, there's the "wacky notion" of public library with paper books (sooo retrooo !!!!), or even television.
I also don't like redundancy, "drowning" people in words, and since this is a DnD class, not a paper on samurai, I don't see a reason to be.


EDIT: Also, one amazing feature to go with not provoking attacks of opportunity would be to boost unarmed damage like a monk. Not overpowered, but it makes the ability actually worth it.
I find it very "weird", that with bare hands one can not only make a dent, but even kill someone in a fullplate. Hence here, and in LFI there's no "fist of steel" part of Improved Unarmed Strike.

Razanir
2015-08-17, 12:21 PM
I explained it in the previous post as best as I can. Can't explain it better. Sorry. But I will add: "samurai"\"character" where's appropriate, and you have my permission to use "step", or "floor" or whatever floats your boat if you want.

You made it worse. First off, you want class level, not character level. The only times class abilities progress outside of class levels are PrCs, repeat abilities (evasion, sneak attack), and Initiator Level including 1/2 your non-initiator-class levels. In fact, not just that, but I have little reason to take multiple levels, because currently I get all the kata benefits, no matter what class I take. Which is worse, because you have a lot of dead levels near the end. I might just take 12 levels, then switch to something else because all I'd lose is Death Before Dishonor (dying).


I find it weird that you can acquire an ability, and it improves not only from that point forward, but backwards too, so lets call it a difference of opinions.

I wasn't saying it should improve retroactively. I was saying that, the way I initially worded it, I thought you needed to put 4 points into it to just get the ability, then another 3 for each boost. That isn't so weird when you have hundreds of power points, but it is when you need to spend 20 minutes for each one. That's over an hour just for a +1 bonus. (And 6 hours to get blindsight!)


Did you look at the table at all?

I will admit the table's clear. But that doesn't excuse confusing wording.


Where did I wrote about putting levels in it ? And from where you would take those levels to put in ? How much you could have ?

Where? "To gain the associated bonus, samurai needs to spend at least 20 minutes exercising for each ďlevelĒ of bonus he wants to acquire" and "Bonus improves by +1 every 3 levels above 4."

Where from? I don't know, hence the confusion.

How many? I don't know, hence the confusion.


You're using the word "level", in the same matter you find confusing when I do it...

Every time I used "level", I meant "class level", which is to be assumed. Even in the SRD, they don't specify class level unless it's ambiguous.


Yes really. But for some reason, you find nitpicking, and obsessing about minutia important, helpful.

You asked for input. I'm critiquing your presentation of the information.


I've explained it enough.

No, you've done the equivalent of saying "Paladins follow the Paladin Code". You really should elaborate.


I find it very "weird", that with bare hands one can not only make a dent, but even kill someone in a fullplate. Hence here, and in LFI there's no "fist of steel" part of Improved Unarmed Strike.

To be honest, your class is already on the weak side. Mainly because katas, which seem to be the main feature of this class, are underpowered compared to magic. So already, it needs something a bit more. There's precedent for improved damage, because most, if not all, classes that grant Improved Unarmed Strike also improve damage. It's a central part to those characters, typically, so they should be able to do more than 1d3 damage. The full plate counterargument doesn't make sense, because AC is already an abstraction. If it matters to you that armor be that drastic, I suggest using Armor as DR variants.

And what's LFI?

NevinPL
2015-08-17, 01:21 PM
Since now I know you're just mhmhm-ing, and can't say, or even can't say that I can't say, what I want to say (does saying that I can't say, that I can't say, counts as saying that I can't say, that I can't say ?), I won't. Forage elsewhere.

Zale
2015-08-17, 02:04 PM
Since now I know you're just mhmhm-ing, and can't say, or even can't say that I can't say, what I want to say (does saying that I can't say, that I can't say, counts as saying that I can't say, that I can't say ?), I won't. Forage elsewhere.

I can't understand what you are trying to say here. I also found the Katas somewhat unclear, which is something that must be strenuously avoided in homebrewing.

I was expecting the Kata to be some sort of tiered series of bonuses, like a sort of passive, mundane version of warlock invocations or the like: You know, a sort of list of various ones to pick from each day, with each offering it's own series of benefits.

But anyway, I'm sorry for intruding on your thread, since I didn't realize who you were. You've already made it clear in your other thread that my sort of advice is unwelcome so I'll just leave you be.

Good luck in all your endeavors.

Razanir
2015-08-17, 02:20 PM
I also found the Katas somewhat unclear, which is something that must be strenuously avoided in homebrewing.

And they now use your class level for everything, including what katas are available. In other words, I have little reason to take multiple levels of this, especially since I can't lose the katas either.


Since now I know you're just mhmhm-ing, and can't say, or even can't say that I can't say, what I want to say (does saying that I can't say, that I can't say, counts as saying that I can't say, that I can't say ?), I won't. Forage elsewhere.

I'm not mhmhming. I was clarifying my statements because you seem to misunderstand them. Not only that, but I provided some serious advice.

Katas should use class level, not character level.
There are copious dead levels at the end.
This class is weak. (Guesstimating tier 5)


Input - helping me along the lines, within boundaries* I've provided.
Disrupt - other than the above.

You haven't provided boundaries.

NevinPL
2015-08-18, 06:07 AM
I also found the Katas somewhat unclear, which is something that must be strenuously avoided in homebrewing.
DnD as a whole "is somewhat unclear", hence forums like this, and the "eternal struggle" RAW vs. RAI, so what's your point ?


I was expecting the Kata to be some sort of tiered series of bonuses, like a sort of passive, mundane version of warlock invocations or the like: You know, a sort of list of various ones to pick from each day, with each offering it's own series of benefits.
Samurai is a melee fighter, not a caster, so I don't know why you expected that. Eunuch Samurai ? :D

You got tiering, both "vertical" (|): just like a 1st wizard character\class\whatever level doesn't get a Wish, a 1st samurai character\class\whatever level doesn't get blindsight.
And "horizontal" (-): 16th samurai character\class\whatever level will have better bonuses to Reflex saving throws than a 10th character\class\whatever level one.

You got various ones - 5 total, can choose 3 maximum, they reset after a day, so you pick them each day. They offer "own series of benefits".

So once again I get more than a distinct feeling (the same one I had for the first time in that thread about rewriting books), that some of you don't bother to read, or try to understand.
And it's not just me, my threads. I see other people threads that are copy-pasted with the same replies, that were provided before by someone else, or even by its creator, with "help", that is more or less the opposite of what OP wanted, said.


But anyway, I'm sorry for intruding on your thread, since I didn't realize who you were.
No need to apologize, you're not intruding. Well, not yet at least.


You've already made it clear in your other thread that my sort of advice is unwelcome so I'll just leave you be.
Yes, I didn't want that kind of advice there. I don't know enough about you, to don't want your sort of advice in general (I prefer the "case by case" approach instead of "one for all\eternity"), so you still can provide input.

And now for the "deleited" parts:


It gains some small bonuses over the course of the class, but nothing much to be truely excited about.
And what (melee) class gets "hueg" bonuses ? All at once ?
I don't see a reason to get excited about any DnD class, or spell, or feat. But one can be excited about what he can do with some class, spell, or a feat.


It might just be me, but I don't jump for joy when my level up just gives me +2 to miscellaneous.
And that's what DnD leveling is about, even less:

at most +1 to BAB on level up,
at most+1 to saving throws on level up,
+1 spell per day on level up, could be more,
+2 spells known on level up, could be more,

etc.

So what are you doing here ? There are probably other RPG's, things, that would offer you the excitement, adrenaline rush\whatever, that you need.


Because the current layout of them is kind of anemic; You could probably let Samurai have all of the Katas active simultaneously and they'd not be much more powerful than they are now.
How "much" is "much" ? Is your "much" same as my "much" or too much ?
And why the assumption that samurai(s) needs to: "...be much more powerful than they are now." ?


However, I don't know what level of balance you are striving for, so YMMV.
Truer words were never spoken.

Razanir
2015-08-18, 08:32 AM
And that's what DnD leveling is about, even less:

at most +1 to BAB on level up,
at most+1 to saving throws on level up,
+1 spell per day on level up, could be more,
+2 spells known on level up, could be more,

etc.

I want some sort of benefit from leveling up. I always get BAB, saving throws, and HD. Dead levels are when only that happens. They mean I'm not getting anything new, and that I'm just numerically increasing. So with your class, except for numerical improvement, all I get by taking levels above 12 is a bonus feat and one more level of Death Before Dishonor (and don't you dare accuse me of being vague with "level", you know I wasn't). I don't even have to level in Samurai to improve kata under RAW, because you based it off my character level. So if I'm trying to stay useful with my character, I could either keep the abilities of a level 12, or switch to a different class and get 8 levels of something else.

This isn't all to say that you can't ever have a level that's just a numerical increase. But there needs to be something on the other side. It's a problem when I have no incentive to take the last 8 levels of a class because of dead levels.


DnD as a whole "is somewhat unclear", hence forums like this, and the "eternal struggle" RAW vs. RAI, so what's your point ?

RAW vs RAI, to my understanding, is about the interactions between rules. The rules themselves are normally clear.


I don't see a reason to get excited about any DnD class, or spell, or feat. But one can be excited about what he can do with some class, spell, or a feat.

The problem comes when there's not much you can do with that whatever. Factotum, I can get excited over all the skills I get. There's some fun cheese possible with Iaijutsu Focus. Exemplar using other things for Diplomacy is fun for Jumplomancers. You can do stuff with all that. Much harder is doing something meaningful when all you have available it a few numerical bonuses to stuff.

Your power level works fine for E6. Level 6 is generally the limits of normal human ability (magic notwithstanding). But at least in D&D, you need something impressive after that. It doesn't need to be magical, per se, but it should, at least, be a bit larger than life.

Zale
2015-08-18, 11:12 AM
DnD as a whole "is somewhat unclear", hence forums like this, and the "eternal struggle" RAW vs. RAI, so what's your point ?


Man, this right here is why I deleted most of my post.

You ask for critique, but when someone tries to help, you spend five posts telling them why they're wrong. So far two people have said that something was unclear; instead of trying to rephrase things, you have decided that it's them that are at fault, not your presentation.


I have better things to do than bicker with you because I made the mistake of assuming you actually wanted criticism.

Xallace
2015-08-18, 11:48 AM
Alright, so I'm gonna look over this bit-by-bit. Grammatical notes will be in pink.



Samurais have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Since the Samurai is a melee fighter, Strength is most important for him. Dexterity and Constitution help him being more effective as warrior. Charisma governs his special abilities, so itís important too.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Die: d10.
Starting Gold: 6d4 x 10 (average 150 gp)

This all looks solid. I think Wisdom may be more suiting to the Samurai archetype than Charisma, but that is neither here-nor-there.


Class Skills
The samuraiís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ◊ 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.


Alright skill points and a decent combination of physical, mental, and social skills. Looks good so far.

Class Features


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, Katana (masterwork bastard sword equivalent), Wakizashi (masterwork short sword equivalent, that deals slashing damage), with all armor (heavy, medium, and light), but not with shields.

No shields at all? Otherwise pretty standard for fighter-types.



Ancestral heritage: Samurai begins play with two swords - a katana and a wakizashi. The Katana is a samuraiís main weapon and a symbol of his status, his pride, losing which has some unpleasant consequences. The Wakizashi is a backup sword, used when the katana is too cumbersome, or not available (e.g. left outside house as according to custom).
If katana is stolen, destroyed, etc., samurai suffers a -4 penalty to his Charisma score, and a -2 to attack and damage rolls until he recovers it or acquire a new one from head of his house, his lord.
When dealing with a character that understands the meaning of loosing a katana (eg. other samurai), the samurai who lost it suffers an additional penalty to Diplomacy and Gather Information check equal to half his Samurai level.
Both weapons are martial weapons for a samurai.

The idea of an ancestral weapon is both cool and flavorful, but limiting characters to a single style or weapon is generally frowned upon in base class design (see: 3.0 Ranger, 3.5 Saumurai). The Oriental Adventures samurai gave some customizability in the form of a ritual that could enchant the weapon at any time. I would suggest granting something like that in exchange for the weapon restrictions.


Bonus feat: At 1st level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the samurai gains a bonus feat. He chooses them from the fighter bonus feat list. He can choose feats that are reserved only for the fighter (like Weapon Specialization), by substituting his samurai levels instead of the required fighter one.

Standard.


Kata (Ex): A samurai constantly improves himself through exercises called Kata. They improve both his muscles and mind.
To gain the associated bonus, a samurai needs to spend at least 20 minutes exercising for each ďlevelĒ of bonus he wants to acquire. Associated bonuses remains active for 24 hours.
Initially samurai can have only one ďlevelĒ of bonus active, but it increases by 1 every 7 samurai's character level, to a maximum of 3 Kata bonuses at 15 samurai's character level.
Abilities from samurai's character level 1 and 19 are always active, and donít count against the maximum number of Kata bonuses.

So if I'm reading this correctly, by "level of bonus" you are talking about the individual abilities granted by this class feature at 1st/4th/7th/etc level. That's worded confusingly. I might suggest simply referring to the individual abilities as different sorts of kata (perhaps naming them for clarity), and word it as follows:


Kata (Ex): A samurai constantly improves himself through exercises called Kata. They improve both his muscles and mind.
To gain the benefit of a given kata, a samurai needs to spend at least 20 minutes exercising for each kata desired. Initially, the samurai can only have one kata active at a time, but may activate a 2nd one at 8th level and a 3rd kata at 15th level.

On another note, if the kata gained at 1st and 19th level are always active, require no exercise period, and do not count against your other bonuses, why are they under the kata section at all? It would be far simpler to just grant the samurai Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st level and Blindsight as a separate class feature at 19th level (perhaps preceded by the Blindfight feat as a bonus feat).


At 1st samurai's character level, samurai learns basic attack and defense technique which allows him to make unarmed attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. They still deal nonlethal damage.
At 4th samurai's character level, samuraiís training improves his motor coordination which manifests as a +1 bonus to trip checks to resist being tripped.
Bonus improves by +1 every 3 samurai's character levels above 4th samurai's character level.
At 7th samurai's character level, samuraiís heightened by constant training senses grant him +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity.
Bonus improves by +1 every 5 samurai's character levels above 7th samurai's character level.
At 10th samurai's character level, further motor coordination training grants him a +1 circumstance bonus to Reflex saving throws.
Bonus improves by +1 every 3 samurai's character levels above 10th samurai's character level.
At 13th samurai's character level, thanks to rigorous weapon training samurai gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with katana or wakizashi, but only if he uses the weapon with both hands.
Bonus improves by +1 every 2 samurai's character levels above 13th samurai's character level, and stacks with the one granted by Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus.
At 16th samurai's character level, further weapon training grants samurai a +2 bonus to damage rolls made with katana or wakizashi, but only if he uses the weapon with both hands.
Bonus improves by +1 every 2 samurai's character levels above 16th samurai's character level, and stacks with the one granted by Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization.
At 19th samurai's character level, samuraiís senses are so keen and adept in cooperating, that he gains Blindsight out to 20 feet.

So here's another thing: since the unarmed bonus is always active, the samurai effectively does not gain this class feature until 4th level, when he actually has something to gain from doing the exercises. The bonuses also seem to be in kind of a strange order. A +2 scaling bonus on damage rolls would be right at home at around 4th level, but at 16th it's practically meaningless (especially considering that it only scales for four more levels - so it grants a total of +4 at 20th level. That's hardly anything at that point). Same goes for the attack bonus benefit.

I also just noticed that those two benefits only work with the Katana or Wakizashi, and only while two-handed fighting. Leaves you in the dust if you decided to dual-wield, huh?

So, here's what I would suggest: First, grant the samurai several kata bonuses to choose from when they first acquire the ability. Really, any of these could be lowered down to a 1st- or 4th-level slot. That way the class begins with a bit more versatility and some meaningful choices to make each day, and the scaling effect of the kata (katas?) can provide more prominent bonuses as the character levels.

Second, provide more kata bonuses to choose from, at higher levels. More powerful ones, like a general AC bonus or bonus AoOs, or even things like Concealment, death effects, or supernatural effects at high levels. You might be able to provide new tiers of abilities at, say, 6th, 11th, and 16th. This allows you to scale the base ability of the kata with other class features and have them improve from there.

Third, base the kata bonuses on class level, not character level. Otherwise this becomes a dip class, and you want people to want to take it all the way to the top, right?


Loyalty (Su): The Samurai gets a saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects that are created by characters other than the one that can command him (e.g. not the head of his house, his senior, etc.). The same amount is applied as a penalty when itís done by someone who can command him.
The amount is equals to one third his samurai level.


I might change this specifically to say [Mind-Affecting] effects, rather than enchantment spells. That makes it broader in scope. The sentence structure is also a tad awkward, so you may want to say something like this instead:


Loyalty (Su): The samurai is loyal to his lord alone. When affected by any [Mind-Affecting] effect created by a creature he acknowledges as his superior, the samurai takes a penalty on Saving Throws against the effect equal to 1/3 his class level. When confronted with a [Mind-Affecting] effect created by anyone other than his lord, the samurai receives a bonus equal to 1/3 his class level.

Further, it's probably best to grant this ability at 3rd level, when it actually starts providing a benefit to the player.


Strength of personality (Ex): Instead of Wisdom, samurai can use his Charisma modifier on Will saving throws.

Presumably to reduce MAD, given later abilities. Solid.


Ibuki (Ex): Ibuki is a breathing technique that allows samurai to get rid of some negative effects.
At 2 level after spending one minute on meditation and breathing, samurai can daily heal the amount of nonlethal damage equal to his samurai level ◊ his Charisma bonus. He doesnít have to use it all at once.
At 5 level after spending 10 minutes on meditation and breathing, samurai can ignore the effects of being Fatigued for number of hours equal to half his samurai level.

Okay, so the 2nd-level version is a self-only non-lethal-only Lay on Hands effect that requires a minute to activate. Do you need to meditate once to gain the benefit of healing for the rest of the day? Or do you have that much healing in reserve each day and you need to spend a minute in meditation each time you'd like to heal some from the pool? If the former, what is the action used to actually heal yourself? If the latter, I would reword the sentence to be a bit more clear. As an example:


At 2nd level, the Samurai gains a daily pool of healing equal to his samurai level * his Charisma modifier. To access this pool, the samurai must meditate quietly for 1 minute, at which point he may convert any number of points from the pool into healing on a 1-for-1 basis. The pool heals non-lethal damage only. The samurai need not use all of the healing at once, and can spread it out across multiple uses in a single day, provided he meditate each time.

I should also point out that this is in all ways less useful than Lay on Hands. At the very least, allow it to heal lethal damage (hit points being the abstract quality that they are, you wouldn't need to justify any sort of supernatural effect for healing lethal).

As for the fifth level ability, can the samurai still become exhausted while the effect is active? The exhaustion get downgraded to fatigue or does it work normally?


One with the sword (Ex): For a samurai, the katana is something more than just a sword. Itís a pride of his and his house, a part of himself with which he has a mystical connection. One with the sword works only with katana that belongs to samurai using this ability.

So it's a "mystical connection" but an extraordinary ability?


At 2nd level samurai can add his Charisma bonus to disarm checks to avoid being disarmed. This bonus works with any other forceful methods of removing samuraiís katana (Teleport Object for example).
At 5th level he can add his Charisma bonus to his katana hardness.
At 8th level each +1 katana enhancement bonus, grants samurai whoís wielding it a +1 bonus to Will saving throws.
This ability is always active, but can be suppressed, and reactivated at will.

These abilities are okay. Nothing useless, I suppose, but nothing exceptional. I like that last ability the most out of the three of them.


Fearless (Su): A samurai of 3rd level or higher, is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).

Solid. Although I'm beginning to notice how front-loaded this class is feeling.


Kiai shout (Su): As a swift action, the samurai can use a special shout to strengthen himself, or to dishearten opponents.
Samurai can use this ability times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma bonus.
At 3 level samurai can add his Charisma bonus to melee weapon damage rolls for one round.
At 6 level samurai can use this shout against others. Enemies in a 30 feet radius who can hear it must make a Will saving throw with DC equal to 10 + half samuraiís level + samuraiís Charisma modifier, or become Shaken for number of rounds equal to samuraiís Charisma bonus (minimum 1).

So you get Divine Might as a bonus feat and a fear effect. Solid damage bonus with a little battlefield control thrown in. No complaints here.


Samuraiís charge (Ex): Samurai of 4th level or higher can perform an improved charge.
At 4th level during a charge he can turn a number of times equal to his Dexterity modifier (minimum 1), but any one turn canít be greater than 90į
At 7th level beside attacking the character at the ďendĒ of a charge, samurai can perform an attack with highest attack bonus against characters along the way. Single character can only be attacked once in this manner, and the number of these additional attacks is equal to number samuraiís attacks per round -1.
These additional attacks provoke attacks of opportunity from characters other than the attacked.

My main issue is some clarity in the 7th level feature. I would suggest stating it like this:


At 7th level, the samurai may make attacks along the length of his charge in addition to the normal attack at the end. The samurai may make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus against any one creature he can reach before he reaches his target. At 11th level, the samurai may make two such additional attacks. At 16th level, the samurai may make three such additional attacks.
These additional attack provoke attacks of opportunity from any for other than the intended target.


Death before dishonor (Ex): For a samurai worse fate than death is dishonor, dishonor is a worse fate than death. Because of that, he can act when other characters canít.
At 9 level samurai can charge even when Fatigued, but suffers 1d10 nonlethal damage for each every 5 feet ran he runs.

Most characters aren't going to be fatigued at this point - all they need to do is 10 minutes of meditation and this ability is useless. Further, 1d10 damage for every 5 feet is a minimum of 2d10 on a charge, and you're more likely to knock yourself out than get anything at all useful out of this ability.


Additionally, he dies when his negative HP are higher below or equal to 10 + his Constitution bonus.

This is an ability that would have been much more useful around 2nd level. By 9th, damage output means that it will only matter in the rarest of situations.


At 12 level he can disregard being Disabled, and act like he wasnít, but still looses HP if performs strenuous actions, and instead loosing 1 HP, he looses 2.

So if I'm understanding this right, this allows you to perform both a Move and Standard action while at 0 hit points, but then you lose an additional hit point. This is only going to come up very rarely and does not do very much at all. Maybe allowing a character to ignore the Disabled condition altogether would be a decent ability at this level, but even that would only very rarely come up.


At 15 level while having negative HP samurai can act like he was Disabled (it canít be disregarded by this ability's previous entry), but instead of loosing 1 HP due to strenuous activities, he looses 1d4.

I'd just have them lose the 1HP, honestly. It's a bit more useful that way.

So no capstone? I'd definitely recommend having something at 20th level to work towards. Gives people a better reason to stay in the class.



[SIZE=4]Ex-Samurais
Samurai which stops being lawful, or who incurs dishonor (running from the battlefield, killing an unarmed, for example), or who blatantly brakes breaks the Bushido Code, opposes his senior's will, losses all of the samurais abilities that require Charisma, and also Loyalty, Fearless, and Death before dishonor. He may not progress any farther further in levels as a samurai until he atones for his violations (like with the Atonement spell for example), provided his senior allows such atonement (sometimes only a ritual suicide can be the only way of doing this).

I would recommend adding the Bushido code in its own Code of Conduct section, ala the Paladin. Having it readily available will allow players a quick reference and provide them with any distinctions between this class's version of Bushido and the historical code, if any. Otherwise it's just convenient.

Also, I don't like that "running from battle" loses your class features. If you end up facing off with a Great Wyrm dragon at low level because one of your teammates did something dumb, you can't even beat a tactical retreat? That sounds like you'd end up in some no-win situations pretty fast. I would suggest changing the example to "surrender," instead.

NevinPL
2015-08-18, 05:42 PM
...instead of trying to rephrase things, you have decided that it's them that are at fault, not your presentation.
Not true. I did change it right after that first person mentioned it. The result you can see for yourself.
Don't believe me ? Compare text here, with the one in .pdf.


Grammatical notes will be in pink.
Damn, that's a lot of pink. Guess I got to fire the proofreading guy.
Oh wait...
Guess I got to cut down on "midnight messengering".
Tomorrow.


This all looks solid. I think Wisdom may be more suiting to the Samurai archetype than Charisma, but that is neither here-nor-there.
Yeah, but some other samurai abilities are more suited for Charisma, and suddenly: "Enter MADman".


No shields at all? Otherwise pretty standard for fighter-types.
No, no shields. Shield wielding samurai doesn't fit my view of him.


The idea of an ancestral weapon is both cool and flavorful, but limiting characters to a single style or weapon is generally frowned upon in base class design (see: 3.0 Ranger, 3.5 Saumurai).
Well, I'm more a "fluff", than "crunch" kind of guy, not to mention with different than widely accepted views, and samurai weapons of choice were those two.
But nothing stands in a way for samurai to use Dwarven Urgrosh instead. He just will have to pay the price.


The Oriental Adventures samurai gave some customizability in the form of a ritual that could enchant the weapon at any time. I would suggest granting something like that in exchange for the weapon restrictions.
Paraphrasing that known saying: "Self enchanting is killing enchanters" :D And bits of improvement are done by the other katana-centered abilities. And no, not at "any time" (minimum level; retreat to temple, or shrine; spend a boatload of money; spend 1 day per 1k spend, etc.).


So if I'm reading this correctly, by "level of bonus" you are talking about the individual abilities granted by this class feature at 1st/4th/7th/etc level.
Yes you are. Are a wizard ? Mensa ? ;)


That's worded confusingly.
Well I listened to someone's "good advice" and changed it from the original wording...


I might suggest simply referring to the individual abilities as different sorts of kata (perhaps naming them for clarity)...
Yeah, I thought about using some real world names, but it didn't sit right with me for various reasons. Still don't. Maybe something will.


On another note, if the kata gained at 1st and 19th level are always active, require no exercise period, and do not count against your other bonuses, why are they under the kata section at all?
Because coming up with (ability) names pains. And reasons.
Although there's something to your logic. Gonna think about it.


It would be far simpler to just grant the samurai Improved Unarmed Strike...
What I wrote about it earlier still applies, so no.


So here's another thing: since the unarmed bonus is always active, the samurai effectively does not gain this class feature until 4th level, when he actually has something to gain from doing the exercises.
So ?


The bonuses also seem to be in kind of a strange order.
That's because I've tried to emulate the real word kata - they don't give "green" beginners even a tonfa to play with.


A +2 scaling bonus on damage rolls would be right at home at around 4th level, but at 16th it's practically meaningless...
That's why the stacking with feats.
But if you have suggestion for a better number, scaling, I'm all eyes.


...(especially considering that it only scales for four more levels - so it grants a total of +4 at 20th level.
That's because the current "new and improved" wording is only one of those. RAI - it improves as long as samurai gets new samurai levels, so epic level samurai would still improve it.
Yes I know - there's no epic level samurai. Details ;)


That's hardly anything at that point). Same goes for the attack bonus benefit.
Well Bless, or Weapon Focus at 1, and 20 level still gives the same "whooping" +1, so it's still an improvement, and I didn't have a big, well payed staff ;)


I also just noticed that those two benefits only work with the Katana or Wakizashi, and only while two-handed fighting. Leaves you in the dust if you decided to dual-wield, huh?
Dual wielding samurai is like a shield wielding for me.
But you can always cheese your way out of it with Xill, or "Mary L.".


So, here's what I would suggest: First, grant the samurai several kata bonuses to choose from when they first acquire the ability.
Like what ?


Really, any of these could be lowered down to a 1st- or 4th-level slot. That way the class begins with a bit more versatility and some meaningful choices to make each day, and the scaling effect of the kata (katas?) can provide more prominent bonuses as the character levels.
Kata are limited because they're augmented with other samurai abilities. If I start to augment katas, soon enough I'll wander into redundant redundancy.
But post some ideas. Who knows, maybe we can steer clear of it.


...a general AC bonus...
Dodge bonus could fit nicely with kata flavor.


...or bonus AoOs...
Well, my LFI fighter has it, so it's not a bad idea.


...or even things like Concealment...
No, that's unsamurai :)


...death effects...
As above.


...or supernatural effects at high levels.
Like what ?


You might be able to provide new tiers of abilities at, say, 6th, 11th, and 16th.
I'm fresh out of ideas, so like what ?


Third, base the kata bonuses on class level, not character level. Otherwise this becomes a dip class, and you want people to want to take it all the way to the top, right?
They were, and are, at least RAI. Not my idea "improving" the wording was.
Since last kata "level" is at 19 samurai class level, yeah, at least there, that's why it's there.


I might change this specifically to say [Mind-Affecting] effects, rather than enchantment spells. That makes it broader in scope.
Yeah, too broad - Color Spray is O.K. (to affect a samurai even when cast by his enemy). But now I see that RAI (resisting mind control), was "overshoot" by RAW - this affects even stuff like Binding, or Crushing Despair, which isn't what I intended :(
Will (try to) fix.


The sentence structure is also a tad awkward...
Copy-paste from elf, with attempt at explaining it, so yeah, not a "Mona Lisa".


Further, it's probably best to grant this ability at 3rd level, when it actually starts providing a benefit to the player.
Crap, there was supposed to be: "(minimum 1)" at the end.


Or do you have that much healing in reserve each day and you need to spend a minute in meditation each time you'd like to heal some from the pool?
Yes.


If the latter, I would reword the sentence to be a bit more clear. As an example:
I don't see a reason - it's just modified copy-paste of Lay on Hands, no need to "reinvent the wheel".


I should also point out that this is in all ways less useful than Lay on Hands.
As intended. And similar to what Ibuki is used for in real life.


At the very least, allow it to heal lethal damage (hit points being the abstract quality that they are, you wouldn't need to justify any sort of supernatural effect for healing lethal).
No.
And I don't really need a reason to justify things, like you implied - "magic", or the general "creator prerogative". I need them to make sense to me, to fit my vision. That doesn't.


As for the fifth level ability, can the samurai still become exhausted while the effect is active? The exhaustion get downgraded to fatigue or does it work normally?
That's a good question - I don't know :D
Any ideas ?


So it's a "mystical connection" but an extraordinary ability?
Yeah, my bad. Should be "Su".


These abilities are okay. Nothing useless, I suppose, but nothing exceptional. I like that last ability the most out of the three of them.
I'm partial to number one - the second part is sooo unexpected ;)


Solid. Although I'm beginning to notice how front-loaded this class is feeling.
That's strange coming from someone, who wants to move some things even closer to the "front".


My main issue is some clarity in the 7th level feature. I would suggest stating it like this:
My main issue is "dumbing things" down :)
Guess I'm maybe too old for this.


These additional attack provoke attacks of opportunity from any for other than the intended target.
Or "trying too much", so the effect is exact opposite of intended ;)


Most characters aren't going to be fatigued at this point - all they need to do is 10 minutes of meditation and this ability is useless.
You thought the ability to "breath fatigue away" was arbitrary ? It wasn't :]


Further, 1d10 damage for every 5 feet is a minimum of 2d10 on a charge, and you're more likely to knock yourself out than get anything at all useful out of this ability.
Well, there was a thread here not so long ago, about how to make your character do just that, so you never know :D
But yeah, you're right. Got any "arbitrary number" instead the 1d10 in mind ?


This is an ability that would have been much more useful around 2nd level. By 9th, damage output means that it will only matter in the rarest of situations.
Hope for the mundane, prepare for the extraordinary ;)


So if I'm understanding this right, this allows you to perform both a Move and Standard action while at 0 hit points, but then you lose an additional hit point.
Yes, just like when you're above 0 HP, but for a price.


This is only going to come up very rarely and does not do very much at all.
Just as planned.


Maybe allowing a character to ignore the Disabled condition altogether...
I don't like to "cancel out" too much...


I'd just have them lose the 1HP, honestly. It's a bit more useful that way.
No - grater gain, greater pain.
And it's sooo random ;)


So no capstone?
Non-magical character being alive at that level, in heavy magical "world", is capstone enough ;)


I'd definitely recommend having something at 20th level to work towards.
Then by all means - give an example.


I would recommend adding the Bushido code in its own Code of Conduct section, ala the Paladin.
Just looked at the OA entry for samurai. Didn't see it even there, so my stand, stands.
As for paladin's CoC (:D), it's there because paladin conduct is limited as Baator. I don't intend that for samurai.


Having it readily available will allow players a quick reference and provide them with any distinctions between this class's version of Bushido and the historical code, if any.
This class "version of Bushido" is non-existent, like I've said before - I only mention it as a fluff, flavor, etc. It's up to player(s), DM(s) to came up with one, or not.


Also, I don't like that "running from battle" loses your class features.
It's just an example, not carved in stone. Use it, or don't I won't kill you either way.
Also, it's not that different from paladins "act with honor" bit.


If you end up facing off with a Great Wyrm dragon at low level because one of your teammates did something dumb, you can't even beat a tactical retreat?
No. NO RETREAT ! NO SURRENDER !


That sounds like you'd end up in some no-win situations pretty fast. I would suggest changing the example to "surrender," instead.
If you have dumb players, and butthole DM, yeah, but for many other reasons too.



Ufff, that was a lot. Thank you for first real input Xallace. Though I got that nagging feeling...
(goes off to write about this singular and blessed event in a diary)

Razanir
2015-08-18, 06:18 PM
Not true. I did change it right after that first person mentioned it. The result you can see for yourself.
Don't believe me ? Compare text here, with the one in .pdf.

You. Missed. My. Point. The word level was unclear when it was being used for the different kata bonuses. It was perfectly clear when it was implied to mean class level, which you botched, by changing those instances to character level.


Well, I'm more a "fluff", than "crunch" kind of guy, not to mention with different than widely accepted views, and samurai weapons of choice were those two.
But nothing stands in a way for samurai to use Dwarven Urgrosh instead. He just will have to pay the price.

But forcing a weapon seems fairly crunchy. If you really wanted the fluff you'd let the samurai choose their ancestral weapon.


Well I listened to someone's "good advice" and changed it from the original wording...

No, you didn't. Normally I'd say it was just a misunderstanding and we'd laugh it off. But given lines like "Now you're just mhm-ing", I'd interpret it as you thinking I'm an idiot because you corrected the wrong thing.


That's because I've tried to emulate the real word kata - they don't give "green" beginners even a tonfa to play with.

Actually, they do. There's such a thing as foam weapons. I'd know. I took karate. And that has nothing to do with this, when all of the bonuses, save blindsight, would be appropriate at any character level.


That's because the current "new and improved" wording is only one of those. RAI - it improves as long as samurai gets new samurai levels, so epic level samurai would still improve it.

RAI. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. It's one thing to debate RAW v RAI when it's worded confusingly or rules have unintended interactions. But here you very clearly disambiguated it to be character level.


Dual wielding samurai is like a shield wielding for me.

From our perspective, you gave the samurai two weapons they must carry under pains of Cha penalty, but penalize them for using them at the same time.


They were, and are, at least RAI. Not my idea "improving" the wording was.

You misunderstood my advice.


As intended. And similar to what Ibuki is used for in real life.

I don't think D&D is the system you want. HP is an abstraction, and the type of healing you want is the very little encountered nonlethal damage. Might I suggest using a Wounds and Vigor variant? It would let you use the distinction you want to, but would still let it be useful, since Vigor is a normal pool to draw from.


Just looked at the OA entry for samurai. Didn't see it even there, so my stand, stands.

Check again. (Emphasis mine)


Additionally, the samurai code of bushido requires that he be obedient to his lord, accept death at any time and face it bravely, avenge any dishonor, and shun any appearance of cowardice. The core principles of bushido are honor, loyalty, and courage.


This class "version of Bushido" is non-existent, like I've said before - I only mention it as a fluff, flavor, etc. It's up to player(s), DM(s) to came up with one, or not.

The name bushido was never used, but the principles very much were.


No. NO RETREAT ! NO SURRENDER !


fleeing in cowardice from an important battle

WotC, at least, seem to think there's a difference between no fleeing whatsoever and no fleeing when it's not tactical. And there is proof (https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=p7maZUYVwV4C&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=samurai+retreat&source=bl&ots=XJpNZWikwU&sig=GARX2J6IQNqnbI_uOmBgX6_a2q4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KOdNU5PlBIPi8AWg9oDoCA#v=onepage&q=samurai%20retreat&f=false) that real life samurai would retreat when tactical.


Non-magical character being alive at that level, in heavy magical "world", is capstone enough ;)

A capstone is an ability. Getting to level 20 isn't reward enough for me to not duck out of the class after level 12.

Xallace
2015-08-18, 08:15 PM
Well, I'm more a "fluff", than "crunch" kind of guy, not to mention with different than widely accepted views, and samurai weapons of choice were those two.
But nothing stands in a way for samurai to use Dwarven Urgrosh instead. He just will have to pay the price.


Paraphrasing that known saying: "Self enchanting is killing enchanters" :D And bits of improvement are done by the other katana-centered abilities. And no, not at "any time" (minimum level; retreat to temple, or shrine; spend a boatload of money; spend 1 day per 1k spend, etc.).

I did not have OA in front of me when I made that claim, and I stand corrected. Still, I believe granting some level of variety would help. Maybe expanding the kata list will help with that (which I will address further down).



Yeah, I thought about using some real world names, but it didn't sit right with me for various reasons. Still don't. Maybe something will.

Naming some abilities would definitely enhance the fluff, whether or not you want to use real-world names. Even making up some names would give the players and DMs some shorthand for what abilities they chose this morning. It's not essential, either way. Leaving them unnamed is fine.



What I wrote about it earlier still applies, so no. [In reference to Improved Unarmed Strike]

Wanting them to deal non-lethal only is fine, I just suggested the feat for ease. Making it a separate class feature would be fine - although some sort of improved damage progression would help them keep up with HP gains.



So? [In reference to Kata not granting benefits until 4th level]

So you should either move Kata to 4th level or grant the samurai other bonuses to choose from at 1st level.



That's because I've tried to emulate the real word kata - they don't give "green" beginners even a tonfa to play with. [In reference to the order of abilities]

Attempting to simulate real-world training and capabilities is admirable, but part of the trick to homebrewing is keeping an eye to the system as well. I think one thing to realize is that a level 2-3 samurai isn't exactly "green" in the game - level 3 is an experienced soldier, someone who's survived (if we're going by the DMG's "13 encounters per level" average) upwards of 25 skirmishes, or perhaps several major mass-combat battles, or done some serious dungeon-delving. They certainly don't seem very far along on the chart - 3/20 is only 15% of the way - but in terms of what they've done to get to that point, they're certainly not novices anymore. Just something to consider.


That's why the stacking with feats.
But if you have suggestion for a better number, scaling, I'm all eyes. [In reference to +4 bonus at 20th level]

My suggestion is to start the scaling earlier. But if that won't work for you, then I recommend granting them a dice bonus rather than a static bonus. Dealing +2dX (take your pick: d6, d8, d10) and then another +1dX every two levels would help damage scaling. I'd recommend something higher than a d6, since you then you're just a sort-of rogue, and we don't want that.


That's because the current "new and improved" wording is only one of those. RAI - it improves as long as samurai gets new samurai levels, so epic level samurai would still improve it.
Yes I know - there's no epic level samurai. Details ;)

RAW it improves into epic as well, but that's even paltrier once you get to epic.



Well Bless, or Weapon Focus at 1, and 20 level still gives the same "whooping" +1, so it's still an improvement, and I didn't have a big, well payed staff ;)

They do, but that's because they're choices for low-level characters. They're fine when you're first level; there's no reason for you to be casting Bless at level 20.

It's not that granting a scaling +1/+2 is a bad option, it's just an option that should be presented when it's going to make a difference, at lower levels.



Dual wielding samurai is like a shield wielding for me.

I agree with Razanir that encouraging the use of both weapons and then discouraging the use of those two weapons seems odd. I understand if your view of the samurai is more the Kuwabatake Sanjuro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojimbo_(film)) type, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to be a little more Miyamoto Musashi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi). Good base class design allows a player to represent a variety of archetypes. If you're only interested in characters following a particular path, perhaps a prestige class would suit your concept better?



Like what ? [In reference to what sorts of abilities Kata would allow at low levels.]

Really, any of the ones you've listed would be good at 1st/4th level. Granting an attack bonus, a damage bonus, a bonus against tripping, Dodge bonus against AoOs. Maybe not the Reflex save one. I'd grant them all as options when you first get the ability - they'd scale well into later levels, wouldn't be over-powered when you first get them, and would give the player something to make decisions about.

Kata are limited because they're augmented with other samurai abilities. If I start to augment katas, soon enough I'll wander into redundant redundancy.
But post some ideas. Who knows, maybe we can steer clear of it.




As above. [In reference to Death effects being "unsamurai."]

Consider the moments in film when a samurai strikes down a foe with a single, precise, skillful cut. That sort of cinematic trope that's ubiquitous in samurai media could easily be modeled as a Save-or-Die effect.



Like what ? [In reference to supernatural effects.]

Depends on what you see a samurai being able to do. Cutting opponents from range with the air itself seems a popular one for katana-wielding-types. Wire Fu acrobatics and other mystical abilities that enhance the samurai's abilities rather than producing some overt magical effect would also be appropriate. "Releasing the spirit of the sword" could provide a whole bevy of special effects (intelligent weapons, spirit-summoning, overt magical displays like cherry blossoms or lightning, that sort of thing).



I'm fresh out of ideas, so like what ? [In reference to different "tiers" of kata.]

The general Dodge bonus to AC and increased number of AoOs would be good for a higher rank of kata. Counter-Attacks, improved mobility, the ability to intimidate opponents just by reaching for your sword (overlaps with kiai but is a staple of samurai media), benefits for fighting multiple opponents at once such as reduce flanking penalties or an improved Cleave effect. Just think about your favorite samurai films and try to come up with abilities that emulate your favorite scenes.



Yeah, too broad - Color Spray is O.K. (to affect a samurai even when cast by his enemy). But now I see that RAI (resisting mind control), was "overshoot" by RAW - this affects even stuff like Binding, or Crushing Despair, which isn't what I intended :(
Will (try to) fix.

I think what you may have wanted is a bonus/penalty to Charm and Compulsion effects.



I don't see a reason - it's just modified copy-paste of Lay on Hands, no need to "reinvent the wheel". [In reference to rewording of healing ability.]

It works a bit differently than Lay on Hands, however, so you need to take that into account when describing it. The version I wrote just clears up some of the clarity issues I was having. It may be fine for others, but if enough people have trouble understanding then it would be a good idea to change it.


As intended. And similar to what Ibuki is used for in real life.

No.
And I don't really need a reason to justify things, like you implied - "magic", or the general "creator prerogative". I need them to make sense to me, to fit my vision. That doesn't. [In reference to Ibuki being weaker than Lay on Hands.]

Well, if you want to keep it less useful. If not healing lethal, then maybe Ibuki could allow a samurai to heal from other non-lethal negative conditions as well? Getting rid of mental effects like Confused or Shaken would make sense from the meditation side of things, and I know breathing exercises help me when I'm feeling Sickened or Nauseated. Something to consider.


That's a good question - I don't know :D
Any ideas ? [In reference to how Fatigue interacts with Ibuki]

When I've written similar abilities, I usually say that any effect that would make the character exhausted instead renders them fatigued, and they can only become exhausted by already being fatigued and being victim to another exhaustion effect.



That's strange coming from someone, who wants to move some things even closer to the "front". [In reference to "front-loading."]

To be fair, I'd also like to add some things to the back. A lot of the features could simply be moved up to make room for new abilities later.


My main issue is "dumbing things" down :) [In reference to rewriting a passage]

I mean, if you don't want players to understand your class, then by all means, keep it the way it is. :smalltongue:


Or "trying too much", so the effect is exact opposite of intended ;)

I can get verbose, it's true.



You thought the ability to "breath fatigue away" was arbitrary ? It wasn't :] [In reference to the "charging while fatigued" ability.]

I don't believe I made myself clear enough. The ability that lets you "breathe fatigue away" makes the "charging while fatigued" ability useless, because at this point you'll likely never be fatigued. The ability to meditate status effects away is actually a very good ability, and one I'd like to see this class keep and even expand on, as noted above.


But yeah, you're right. Got any "arbitrary number" instead the 1d10 in mind ?

If you'd like to keep the non-lethal damage, I'd lower to something like d4s or d6s. Really, it might be much simpler to say that you can charge but it leaves you exhausted - thematically similar, likewise leaves the samurai worse-off than he started, but no need to scale damage and no chance of him dropping on his face halfway to the orc warlord.



Hope for the mundane, prepare for the extraordinary ;) [In reference to extra negative hit points]

Sure. But that doesn't making it more useful. If you made it an effect like, say, that one Crusader stance that makes it so you can't die as long as you keep making your Saving Throws, then it would be worth being so late in the game. Or even if you just moved it earlier (I feel like a broken record here).



Non-magical character being alive at that level, in heavy magical "world", is capstone enough ;)


Then by all means - give an example. [In reference to lack of capstone]

I'm not very familiar with samurai attributes (I'm more of a Kung Fu guy than a Jidaigeki guy), but what sort of thing do you imagine the epitome of "samurai" should be able to do? What are they, at that point? Are they the perfect empty vessel of their lord's will? Are they a mere extension of their sword, a walking killing machine? The serene and almost otherworldly embodiment of the Bushido code?




It's just an example, not carved in stone. Use it, or don't I won't kill you either way.
Also, it's not that different from paladins "act with honor" bit. [In reference to the Bushido code requiring no retreat.]

The thing is, players and DMs are going to look to the examples you give to set the standard for what the code should consist of, so your examples should form a good baseline.




Ufff, that was a lot. Thank you for first real input Xallace. Though I got that nagging feeling...

I wouldn't say that at all. I think you got some good input from the other posters, but it seems to me you're looking for a particular sort of critique on your work, and you don't view what was given as being within those parameters. Would you be willing to clearly state what sort of critique you are looking for on your work?

NevinPL
2015-08-19, 07:37 AM
Still, I believe granting some level of variety would help.
There is some level of variety. But I don't see a reason to make samurai an (weapon) enchanter. There's a crapload of mages that will do that for him faster, and better.


Naming some abilities would definitely enhance the fluff, whether or not you want to use real-world names. Even making up some names would give the players and DMs some shorthand for what abilities they chose this morning.
Well I've "butchered" BokmŚl\Nynorsk, and Swedish while creating Witcher, guess I could do that with Japanese too, and use completely made up names.


Wanting them to deal non-lethal only is fine, I just suggested the feat for ease. Making it a separate class feature would be fine - although some sort of improved damage progression would help them keep up with HP gains.
Samurai isn't supposed to beat opponents with fists, samurai is supposed to slash them with katana.
But the improvement of non-lethal damage is a good idea.


So you should either move Kata to 4th level or grant the samurai other bonuses to choose from at 1st level.
Like what ?


Attempting to simulate real-world training and capabilities is admirable, but part of the trick to homebrewing is keeping an eye to the system as well.
I try, but it's hard when those two knowledges collide, or go like this: ) ( .


I think one thing to realize is that a level 2-3 samurai isn't exactly "green" in the game - level 3 is an experienced soldier, someone who's survived (if we're going by the DMG's "13 encounters per level" average) upwards of 25 skirmishes, or perhaps several major mass-combat battles, or done some serious dungeon-delving.
And if we use the official DnD adventure for characters level 1 (The Sunless Citadel), it's not as battle-hardened as you describe :)
But if you have new and improved kata progress, do write.


My suggestion is to start the scaling earlier. But if that won't work for you, then I recommend granting them a dice bonus rather than a static bonus. Dealing +2dX (take your pick: d6, d8, d10) and then another +1dX every two levels would help damage scaling. I'd recommend something higher than a d6, since you then you're just a sort-of rogue, and we don't want that.
Hmmm, how about improving the damage dealt instead ? Something like: empowered, maximized, doubled, etc ?


RAW it improves into epic as well...
So why you suggested that it stops at level 20 ?


They do, but that's because they're choices for low-level characters. They're fine when you're first level; there's no reason for you to be casting Bless at level 20.
Well, as you well know, that doesn't only "afflicts" that spell, or feat.
And there's a reason. At level 20 you probably still have the same 1st level spells, working almost exactly the same way as at 19, 18, 17, etc. In other words you don't have any other option* for 1 level spells.


It's not that granting a scaling +1/+2 is a bad option, it's just an option that should be presented when it's going to make a difference, at lower levels.
I've used official books as a guideline, and Greater Weapon Specialization is a level 12 feat, grants non scaling +2. That's why the kata bonus is a bit higher, and thus a bit better (scaling).
But I'm open to suggestion.


I agree with Razanir that encouraging the use of both weapons and then discouraging the use of those two weapons seems odd.
Razanir, Razanir... Is that the guy who didn't even bothered to look at the table, among other things ?
I'm not discouraging the use of these two weapons. If that was the case, there would be no kata bonuses for both of them. I'm discouraging simultaneous use of them.


I understand if your view of the samurai is more the Kuwabatake Sanjuro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojimbo_(film)) type, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to be a little more Miyamoto Musashi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi).
My view of the samurai is the popular culture one - two-handed katana wielding fearless kamikaze-ish fighter.
Nothing stops those people from changing this to make them dual wielding. I won't sue. Really.


Good base class design allows a player to represent a variety of archetypes.
And it does withing my vision of it:

charging fighter,
fearless fighter,
kamikaze fighter,
mystical fighter
nimble-ish fighter,
scholar fighter,
unyielding fighter

But if anyone wants, do put it in the "bad base class" shelf, but I think there's no room there if representing a variety of archetypes is an indicator for it.


If you're only interested in characters following a particular path, perhaps a prestige class would suit your concept better?
Not with what PRC idea stands for.


Really, any of the ones you've listed would be good at 1st/4th level. Granting an attack bonus, a damage bonus, a bonus against tripping, Dodge bonus against AoOs. Maybe not the Reflex save one. I'd grant them all as options when you first get the ability...
Then what will be later, at the top ?


Consider the moments in film when a samurai strikes down a foe with a single, precise, skillful cut. That sort of cinematic trope that's ubiquitous in samurai media could easily be modeled as a Save-or-Die effect.
I don't like Save-or-Die, or No-Save-and-suffer (like negative levels).
How about some forced critical ?


Cutting opponents from range with the air itself seems a popular one for katana-wielding-types.
Definitely not. But I "reserve" that for the upcoming YANF\H\I ;)


Wire Fu acrobatics...
?


...and other mystical abilities that enhance the samurai's abilities rather than producing some overt magical effect would also be appropriate. "Releasing the spirit of the sword" could provide a whole bevy of special effects (intelligent weapons, spirit-summoning, overt magical displays like cherry blossoms or lightning, that sort of thing).
Details. Like I said - I'm fresh out.
Making katana intelligent is a thought, but it's more of a "One with the sword" than kata ability.
Spirit-summoning, overt magical displays is a no - samurai is mystical, not magical. Although some communion with ancestral spirits (of previous owners of katana), could be nice.


The general Dodge bonus to AC and increased number of AoOs...
Like I've implied - will think about adding it.


Counter-Attacks, improved mobility, the ability to intimidate opponents just by reaching for your sword (overlaps with kiai but is a staple of samurai media)...
Adds another "layer" to combat.
Is available via Samurai's charge, but yeah, it does feel too little. Ideas ?
Too cheesy. And there's Intimidation for that. I allow the bonus of +1 per 1000 gp kata value to Intimidation checks is anyone wants. You can call it: "Bling of Doom (Su)" :D


...benefits for fighting multiple opponents at once such as reduce flanking penalties...
Good idea.


or an improved Cleave effect.
I don't like granting abilities that are just feats.


Just think about your favorite samurai films and try to come up with abilities that emulate your favorite scenes.
Won't work in a DnD world, with DnD mechanic.


I think what you may have wanted is a bonus/penalty to Charm and Compulsion effects.
That's not it either - Binding is "Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]", and it should work on samurai.
Guess without a frelling list of what counts\doesn't, this won't work as it should...


If not healing lethal, then maybe Ibuki could allow a samurai to heal from other non-lethal negative conditions as well? Getting rid of mental effects like Confused or Shaken would make sense from the meditation side of things, and I know breathing exercises help me when I'm feeling Sickened or Nauseated. Something to consider.
I was thinking about something like that, for something I considered for LFI. Even looked through Rules Compendium for a list of will-ish effects. It still should be somewhere.


When I've written similar abilities, I usually say that any effect that would make the character exhausted instead renders them fatigued, and they can only become exhausted by already being fatigued and being victim to another exhaustion effect.
Good idea.


I mean, if you don't want players to understand your class, then by all means, keep it the way it is. :smalltongue:
For some reason you did understood it.
And it's about having some level of understanding, ability to think, etc., And because IME the more you try to explain things, the more it gets confusing.


I can get verbose, it's true.
It's O.K.as long as it serves some purpose beside talking for the sake of talking:
http://i.imgur.com/QdwOlrr.jpg
Yours does.


I don't believe I made myself clear enough. The ability that lets you "breathe fatigue away" makes the "charging while fatigued" ability useless, because at this point you'll likely never be fatigued.
Yes you did.
Yes it could, but only if a player would act like some mhmhm-lims - three o'clock, no matter what mhmhm-ay. But in this case, it will look something like this: "Fatigued, no matter what meditate 10 minutes".
If he does, that's the DM (running that game) problem.


If you'd like to keep the non-lethal damage, I'd lower to something like d4s or d6s. Really, it might be much simpler to say that you can charge but it leaves you exhausted - thematically similar, likewise leaves the samurai worse-off than he started, but no need to scale damage and no chance of him dropping on his face halfway to the orc warlord.
d4 it is.
Non-lethal damage is here because you can heal it with Ibuki.
The possibility of self K.O.i s the price for the gain.


Sure. But that doesn't making it more useful. If you made it an effect like, say, that one Crusader stance that makes it so you can't die as long as you keep making your Saving Throws, then it would be worth being so late in the game.
Didn't read about Crusaders or Warblades, soo...


...(I feel like a broken record here).
But a good broken record :)


What are they, at that point? Are they the perfect empty vessel of their lord's will? Are they a mere extension of their sword, a walking killing machine? The serene and almost otherworldly embodiment of the Bushido code?
They are what player playing them wants, and DM allows them to be.
Just like other classes.


The thing is, players and DMs are going to look to the examples you give to set the standard for what the code should consist of, so your examples should form a good baseline.
Like I've said before: IME the more you try to explain things, the more it gets confusing, so I guess it's off with the code, if it's such an issue.


...you're looking for a particular sort of critique on your work, and you don't view what was given as being within those parameters./QUOTE]
Well yeah. Is something strange with that ?
No I don't. Is something strange with that ?

[QUOTE=Xallace;19695265]Would you be willing to clearly state what sort of critique you are looking for on your work?
If I could put it into a nice bullet-point list, I wouldn't have this much "trouble", would I ?

Razanir
2015-08-19, 08:09 AM
Well I've "butchered" BokmŚl\Nynorsk, and Swedish while creating Witcher, guess I could do that with Japanese too, and use completely made up names.

Speaking from experience, katas (at least in shotokan) are more or less just numbered. The first one was taikyoku shodan. After that, it went to heian shodan, heian nidan, heian sandan, heian yondan, and heian godan. And finally, you could just go to tekki shodan, or you could pick one of the advanced katas, like kanku dai which is at least tangentially related to blindsight and apparently inspired the heian series.

BUT I don't know why I'm still helping you because:


Razanir, Razanir... Is that the guy who didn't even bothered to look at the table, among other things ?
I'm not discouraging the use of these two weapons. If that was the case, there would be no kata bonuses for both of them. I'm discouraging simultaneous use of them.

I try to help you, and you disregard my comments. I try to clarify what I mean, and you accuse me of just mhm-ing you. I try to tell you you misunderstood my point, and you continually make backhanded comments about my "help". I read the abilities before looking too closely at the table, and you accuse me and Zale both of being idiots. To be honest your response to "It's unclear" read like "I can understand it, so it's obviously clear enough".

Also, discouraging simultaneous use of them is exactly what I meant.


And it does withing my vision of it:

charging fighter,
fearless fighter,
kamikaze fighter,
mystical fighter
nimble-ish fighter,
scholar fighter,
unyielding fighter


Nothing fits a single archetype. What we mean by supporting multiple isn't the natural "If you use this, you'll fit multiple archetypes". We mean that you have choice as to which you fit. Despite being underpowered, the Fighter is actually a good example of this. WotC actually did a really good job with letting you choose which fighting-man archetypes you want to fit, without shoehorning you into any.


I was thinking about something like that, for something I considered for LFI. Even looked through Rules Compendium for a list of will-ish effects. It still should be somewhere.

Mettle and Improved Mettle?


For some reason you did understood it.
And it's about having some level of understanding, ability to think, etc., And because IME the more you try to explain things, the more it gets confusing.

I have some very not-forum-appropriate things to say after that. I got a 35 on the ACT, 36 in everything, except a 33 in Reading. I consistently get A's and the occasional B, and am in my university's honors program. I've taught myself multiple subjects, not limited to 2 languages and some graduate-level math. I'm even majoring in Computer Science, which is all about problem solving and how to think. Trust me. I'm not some idiot who doesn't know how to think. Your class really is unclearly worded, and you need to get down off your high horse and actually listen to the people telling you so.


Well yeah. Is something strange with that ?
No I don't. Is something strange with that ?
If I could put it into a nice bullet-point list, I wouldn't have this much "trouble", would I ?

Actually yes. Xallace said many of the things I did, but because he's not me, and you don't seem to have a personal vendetta against him, you actually listened. You're the only one here who's stepped out of line. Except for some of my comments in this post, in retaliation against all your backhanded attacks on me, all the critique we've given is normal for PEACH threads.

EDIT: Also, NevinPL, I've reported you for all the passive-aggressive and backhanded comments you've made in this thread.

NevinPL
2015-08-20, 03:33 AM
Changelog:

v1.03

added Spirit sight ability


v1.02

removed bushido references,
hastened kata progress,
named each kata level,
added new kata, improved two existing ones,
rephrased Loyalty,
added 8 level Ibuki ability,
added 11, 14 level One with the sword abilities,
upped the negative HP limit,
changed Death before dishonor charge HP loss

and other things.

NevinPL
2015-08-20, 04:31 PM
I think I've made all the improvements Xallace suggested.
I'm particularly pleased with the blindsight now being just before acquiring fog cloud 3/day :D Although level 10 is now a particular eyesore...
I think I have a "capstone" thing, but need name. Something other than: "Samurai paragon", or "Sensei".

NevinPL
2015-09-10, 04:46 PM
Since it looks I've used up "even" Xallace's good will, most likely final update.
Upon further thought I've reconsidered that "capstone" bit, and instead filled that eyesore at level 10, and updated the .pdf.