Race/Template Choice for New Character

[proselus]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum, and I have a question my limited googling skills have been unable to answer.

Me and my girlfriend are joining a level 10 campaign with some odd rules regarding racial choices. Any race is ok, max LA of 5, and up to two templates allowed. Biggest change the DM has decreed is that when picking races, Racial HD are ignored. So for example, a dragonkin (draconomicon) normally has a LA+2, and 7 Racial HD, but if I choose to play as one, I ignore the Racial HD, and all the benefits of such (extra HD, BAB, Skills, Feats, etc) and just treat it as a LA+2 race.

With this in mind, what kind of creatures/templates would you guys suggest? I want to do a Dungeoncrasher, and was thinking of using the aforementioned Dragonkin, getting Knockback and Shock Trooper and having some fun. My girlfriend wants to be a simple buffing Cleric, and I was liking the stats the Domovoi gives (Races of Faerun I think?) but my knowledge of DnD isn't quite so encyclopedic, and most suggestions ignore things with Racial HD since they negate much of the advantages. I also don't want to go above LA+2 if possible, as I might get LA buyoff, but maybe not.

Thank you in advance you guys, and please let me know if any further clarification is needed or if I left out anything important.

-Proselus

[Nifft]

Minotaur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm) is a pretty decent pick under those rules.

But really, you want a race with a lot of HD and no LA at all, so check out this list: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1281.msg10210#msg10210

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So you're starting at ECL 10, max +5 LA, max two templates, and you ignore all racial HD.

A Black Ethergaunt in the Fiend Folio is normally 16 HD, +4 LA, for an ECL 20 creature. It gets Wizard 17 spellcasting as a racial ability, which does not vary with HD. If you or your significant other picks that, you can combine it with something like Cloistered Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 3, and have Cleric 6 and Wizard 20 spellcasting on a 10th level character.

A Sand Giant in MM3 normally has 15 HD, +4 LA, for an ECL 19 creature. It's large size, it gets Str +16, Dex +10, Con +10, Wis +6, Cha +2, 40 ft. land speed, +11 natural armor, and a free action Blur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blur.htm) effect usable at will.

However, I would go with a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) Lycanthrope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm) (Were-Legendary Bear or tiger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/legendaryAnimal.htm)), which would normally be 20 HD plus one class level, +3 LA, for an ECL 24 character. Since you don't need to take the racial HD, you would just have the +3 LA, and keep in mind that the Lycanthrope template gives you the animal's feats as bonus feats even though you don't have any of its HD. Begin play with Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) Wolf Totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) (Lion Spirit if not a tiger) Barbarian 2/ Fighter 2/ Warshaper 3, take Knock-Back (RoS) and Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown), wear a Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks) to add your Wis bonus to your AC and stay in hybrid form. You can add an inherited template to the Legendary Bear before putting it through Lycanthrope, so you can make it a Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm), or if that's too much cheese just use Magebred (ECS) or Warbeast (MM2).

Yet another option would be a Tauric Creature (MM2, Savage Species) combining a Lesser Aasimar (PGtF) with a Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm). Without the racial HD it's only a +3 LA and you'll get Cleric 7 spellcasting, flight, a permanent magic circle, spell-like abilities, etc. Go Fighter 2/ Cleric 3/ Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) and trade your special mount for Underdark Knight (CC) or Charging Smite (PH2). Edit: You can slap Paragon Creature or whatever else on the Lammasu prior to adding Tauric Creature and you won't have to take the LA of whatever you put on it.

[Troacctid]

Wow, I was just going to suggest Marrulurk (from Sandstorm), but forget that, Black Ethergaunt or some manner of epic Lycanthrope seems absurd. I'd go with those.

I think you could turn the lycanthrope dial up even further, actually. Try an entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) based on a devastation vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm). That's normally ECL 130 (not including class levels), available to you at the bargain basement price of +2 LA and no RHD. (Also, you need to find a way to become gargantuan, but I'm sure it can be done.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wow, I was just going to suggest Marrulurk (from Sandstorm), but forget that, Black Ethergaunt or some manner of epic Lycanthrope seems absurd. I'd go with those.

I think you could turn the lycanthrope dial up even further, actually. Try an entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) based on a devastation vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm). That's normally ECL 130 (not including class levels), available to you at the bargain basement price of +2 LA and no RHD. (Also, you need to find a way to become gargantuan, but I'm sure it can be done.)

You would go over the two-template limit trying to get the sizes right, otherwise you could apply the Dungeonbred template in Dungeonscape to the vermin a few times to reduce its size. It will end up with lower Str/Con than the legendary animals, but you'll still get its SR, DR, etc.

[proselus]

Holy tarrasque batman. I knew ignoring racial HD would get ridiculous fast, but I had no idea. Now I know how to get ban-hammered fast ☺
I'll have to see what I can pull together that won't be too ridiculous, as well as something simpler for the cleric. She's not too hot on DnD yet, and I don't want to overwhelm her.
Thank you all for your suggestions.

[Nerdguy88]

If you are wanting to go for dungeoncrasher I would like to throw my two cents in. I have built MANY dungeon crasher fighters. Love the class.

Half Minotaur(template)/Half Orc

Do DC Fighter6/War Hulk to max. Warhulk gives +2 str per level. Then whatever else you want from there.

Edit: Half Minotaur is only +1 LA and gives the following.

+12str, -2dex, +6con, +2wis, -2int, +4NA and a LARGE size

[proselus]

Love the idea! And it got struck down. Apparently someone abused War Hulk in the past, and it's out. However, I was really in love with the idea of a flying dungeon crasher, as dm has allowed me to dribble people off the ground. (which is where I started looking at dragonkin) I'm wondering, half minotaur, half dragonkin, dungeon crashing? Also, ToB got rejected, at least for now.

[Troacctid]

Marruspawn are pretty solid if you don't want to go the broken route.

Marrulurk is +1 LA for +2 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +6 Wis, +4 Cha. Small size, +2 natural armor, proficient with light armor and shields, plus scimitars and longbows. Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as bonus feats. Death Attack, poison use, +2d6 sneak attack, and a 1/day free-action nauseating breath weapon. +4 racial bonus to Hide, and Move Silently.

Marrusault is +2 LA for +10 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, -4 Int, +4 Cha. Large size, +5 natural armor, proficient with heavy armor and shields, plus a natural bite attack that deals 1d8 damage. EWP (Great Falchion) and Weapon Focus (Great Falchion) as bonus feats, plus Diehard. You also get Pounce.

Both of them also have a +4 racial bonus to Listen, a hearing-based form of pseudo-blindsense out to 30 feet, 5 fire resistance, darkvision, low-light vision, and resistance to desert conditions.

[(Un)Inspired]

The DM is creating crazy house rules and then banning people when they make builds using them?

I would find the angel or dragon with the highest HD that actually has a listed LA and go with that. They're both usually pretty good for both ability score buffs and amazing racial powers.

[proselus]

Yes, the fun dance of joining a new, established group. But I wanna play so bad, I'll figure something out. I like the angel idea, I hadn't thought of them at all. Could be fun for both the bruiser and the buffer. Thank you all for your help on this crazy crazy exercise.