Help with Class for Spontaneous Divine Caster

[AriaBellaGato]

As a preface, I have three parts to this I need to know, and some info on me as a player before taking suggestions. I am a new player, this character I am creating is for my third campaign. I also have crippling anxiety, and get overwhelmed and have an episode when dealing with too much information (long spell lists essentially.) Because of this, I have been limited, and have played a duskblade and a rogue. My player group is made of experienced players that like to build the most cheesy, OP, godlike characters possible, and I want to be a part and be as strong as them. Hopefully that explains what I am asking.

1. What is the best option for a spontaneous divine caster? I want spontaneous because I know prepared will stress me more (so don't try to sell me on prepared casters), I feel more comfortable with it. I want divine because I've never played it. I've looked at the Mystic class from Dragonlance, and Favored Soul from complete divine, but I want to know what my choices are. Melee would be nice to have as a crutch but I'm willing to try.

2. This one is simple. What are the best prestige classes for a prepared divine caster like these?

3. The main source of my anxiety is seeing the overly long spell lists and being told to pick. If someone could maybe work with me for my class and prestige I end up picking and help plan what spells I pick per each level, and abilities, that would be nice. I basically want help planning the intricacies of all 20 levels.

Thank you! Don't worry about all my questions at once, they're in the order of current importance I suppose. Thank you for the advice.

Note: Anything from 3.5 and Pathfinder is allowed in this campaign.

[Troacctid]

I would say Spontaneous Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm), and use your domains to help give your character some thematic direction. Spontaneous Druid is also good.

[AriaBellaGato]

I wasn't aware of this. I thought cleric was innately prepared. Thank you. The same prestige classes as standard cleric should be relevant, yes?

[Nifft]

I wasn't aware of this. I thought cleric was innately prepared. Thank you. The same prestige classes as standard cleric should be relevant, yes?

You're right, Cleric usually is prepared. Spontaneous Divine Caster is a variant.

The usual prestige classes are a good idea, yeah.

[AriaBellaGato]

Alright. So I'm looking at a melee focused spontaneous cleric... Ah... What's the best options for prestiging such? I see a lot of casting focused stuff.

[Troacctid]

My go-to prestige class for melee clerics is Ordained Champion, from Complete Champion. Get an extra domain, automatically quicken all of your War domain spells, trade unneeded domain powers for fighter bonus feats, channel spells through your weapon attacks, and use turn undead to make smite attacks. Very solid package for a gish. It has a weird interaction with the spontaneous cleric variant where it effectively removes cure and inflict spells from your spells known, though, which is kinda weird--maybe talk to your DM about that if you were planning to take any cure or inflict spells.

[AriaBellaGato]

Ah. Anything much else? Seems a big point of that one is making it spontaneous, which isn't needed

[Masakan]

Ah. Anything much else? Seems a big point of that one is making it spontaneous, which isn't needed

If you are willing to get a useless feat, look up the fist of Raziel. It's good

[Troacctid]

Ah. Anything much else? Seems a big point of that one is making it spontaneous, which isn't needed

You'd think so, but nah, making it spontaneous is not even a draw, TBH. If you want that, you can get it without even prestiging (via the Player's Handbook II variant), and frankly a lot of the time I'd rather have spontaneous curing. I mean, you don't really need to spontaneously cast Magic Vestment, and going from Cure Light Wounds to Magic Weapon is clearly a downgrade.

It's more about the stuff I listed. Quickening your spells in particular is very powerful. Quickened Divine Power means no need to waste a round of combat casting your buff, and quickened Flame Strike or Spiritual Weapon can be a big boost to your damage per round. Furthermore, the extra domain actually goes way up in value for a spontaneous cleric, because it's just straight added to your spells known, so no more fiddling about with one domain slot per spell level per day, you can spontaneously cast it all. It's entirely possible the class is even better for a spontaneous cleric than a prepared one.

[Andezzar]

If you are willing to get a useless feat, look up the fist of Raziel. It's goodI second that. Using Fist of Raziel with a cleric is much better than with a Paladin, even though the class seems written for Paladins. With a spontaneous cleric you have to take care that you have divine favor though. Another problem is that [Exalted] feats cannot just be taken, they must be awarded. So make sure you agree with your DM which hoops you have to jump through to get it.

[Nifft]

My go-to prestige class for melee clerics is Ordained Champion, from Complete Champion.

Hmm. That's adding a bunch more options, but in trade for 2 caster levels. I like caster levels, and one of the OP's main concerns is making a character which won't exacerbate a case of "crippling anxiety" due to information overload, so IMHO it's maybe not a good pick.

Likewise, my favorite Cleric PrC (the Ruby Knight Vindicator from Tome of Battle) would probably be a bad idea, due to the even larger number of options.

So, simplicity. Defensive options and passive abilities are GOOD. Tricky choices and lots of options are BAD.

How about Divine Oracle from Complete Divine?
- a Bonus Domain
- Lots of defensive / passive buffs

Contemplative is also good.
- bonus Domain
- more defensive buffs

In terms of melee, I'd suggest something very simple: a [Reserve] feat. Clap of Thunder (Complete Mage) gives you a 1d6/slot level Sonic damage touch attack. Normal Cleric list caps out at level 8 [Sonic] spells (Lion's Roar), but has a good assortment at lower levels. You might find a 9th level [Sonic] spell on a Domain.
- Winter's Blast - a 15 foot cone of cold damage, damage 1d6/slot level
- Storm Bolt - another close-range option, a 20 foot long lightning bolt every turn, 1d6/slot level

The neat thing about those feats is they don't cost anything except your turn. You can use them over and over, and they ignore Spell Resistance because they're not spells.

If you want to go weapon-based melee instead, then you're going to want the War domain, and you'll want to cast an Extended Divine Power before a fight... or a Persistent Divine Power in the morning. The War domain has another benefit, too: the Holy Warrior [Reserve] feat from Complete Champion gives you bonus weapon damage equal to your highest unspent spellslot.

Note that bonus weapon damage is better than just melee. You could be an insanely good Cleric archer, if you wanted.

[Troacctid]

I'd argue that Ordained Champion narrows your options rather than broadening them—or at least, it turns a blank canvas into paint-by-numbers. It gives you focus: you know that you want to spend every turn in combat making weapon attacks, and it's usually pretty easy to figure out what you want to spend your swift action on. (Divine Power, then some variation of "extra damage" on subsequent turns.) Ignore all the other uses for turn undead besides smiting, and you're good to go!

If you do want to go melee and keep it simple, I suppose I would be remiss if I failed to mention the Druid's crazy shapeshifting face-smashing abilities. The standard wild shape is pretty complex, but the Shapeshift variant from PH2 is simple, fun, easy to use, and still very effective, giving you substantial bonuses to your stats along with size increases and natural weapons and stuff. I played one once and it was pretty nice. The fact that you can't cast while shifted is mitigated by your having access to all-day buffs like Greater Resistance and Heart of Water and stuff, as well as your ability to shift back to human form as a swift action if you need to cast something, then shift back to a combat form as another swift action next turn. And there's no need to dig around for the best animals to transform into, because the forms are preset.

This still isn't even getting into Pathfinder material. I'm not that well-versed in PF, but I'm told the Oracle is pretty solid, and the Shaman is decent too.

[Firest Kathon]

I'm currently playing a spontaneous Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator, focused on martial combat. Works out quite well, even though I build it as Cleric 5 / Crusader 1 instead of the more combat-focused Crusader 4 / Cleric 1, because I only got the idea to go into this prestige class when I was already level 5. Crusader and RKV are from the Tome of Battle.

[Nifft]

I'd argue that Ordained Champion narrows your options rather than broadening them Well, it's a class you seem to have more experience playing, so I'm just going to agree to disagree.


If you do want to go melee and keep it simple, I suppose I would be remiss if I failed to mention the Druid's crazy shapeshifting face-smashing abilities. The standard wild shape is pretty complex, but the Shapeshift variant from PH2 is simple, fun, easy to use, and still very effective, giving you substantial bonuses to your stats along with size increases and natural weapons and stuff. Yeah, this is a GREAT idea.

With the Shapeshift variant, changing to & from your melee-form is a Swift action, so you never have to stress about being in the wrong form this turn. Also, it's an unlimited ability, so you never have to worry about doing it too soon and losing a daily charge or whatever. And, yeah, the forms have stats which are pre-set, so you just note what they are before the session and you're good to go.

It's technically a nerf, but it's so much easier to use that I consider it much preferable for my own characters. And, Druid is strong enough to handle the nerf just fine.

[spaceman1997]

This is my first time posting here and I am a relatively new roleplayer, however I do feel that I have to point out the Oracle (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html) from Pathfinder. It's essentially the divine equivalent to a Sorcerer, a base class that shares a spell list with the cleric and sacrifices the number of spells known for a lot more spells per day. It has quite a few options for customization, but is lacking in archetypes and good prestige classes.

The Oracle curses are straightforward, giving you a benefit at the expense of a downside. Personally I prefer haunted as it gives you some extra spells, however tongues is good if you choose a language someone else in your party knows.

The mystery you choose depends on how exactly you plan on using your character. Flame is good if you plan on using damaging spells, while Battle, Metal, and Wood are good for melee focused characters. I have yet to find anything that can beat a properly built Oracle of Life at raw healing power and an Oracle of Time can pull out a downright insane amount of BS to prevent themselves from being killed.