Build Advice: Ancient Paladin feat choice.

[Georlik]

Hello there. I'm playing an OotA Paladin for the Adventurer's League, and now, that I've reached 4th level, it seems to be my last chance to make changes if any.
Prior to that i was aiming for somewhat hybrid build maxing Str and throwing in 14 dex for medium armor (standard human) so that i can have high Athletics checks as well as Stealth option. And whilst it sounded interesting, it added almost nothing for the character's strength. So I decided to opt for more straightforward build.

I really enjoy playing Human Noble (mostly for RP reasons and the additional challenge of playing a race without Darkvision). But i'm open to suggestions.

At this point i consider 2 options:
-Strength based Green Knight with Mounted Combatant as a Feat of choice.
PROS:
- Lance
- Synergy with Find Steed
- Best Armor
- Reliable Athletics checks
- Wider range of magic items
CONS:
- Whilst Lance is good, it's main advantage (reach) is somewhat counterproductive to the advantage of having an Intelligent mount ( it can also attack your target, for which it needs to be in melee range)
- I'm really looking forward to the next adventure, which AFAIK takes place in Underdark. You now - THAT Underdark, with narrow underground tunnels and no decent stable to be found.
- Clankiness
- Athletics checks are not that important, as the Oath offers a lot of other controlling options, whilst swim and climb checks are rare.
- The necessity of squire to don an armor. Whilst there is nothing in the rules about that, it somewhat irks me. Not the major point however. I just cant imagine a noble paladin to drag his squire in the Underdark.

-Dexterity based Warden with Alert Feat.
PROS:
- Sneakiness
- No surprise from those pesky undetectable-until-it-moves shrooms, mephits and other denizens of FR caves
- Always first into the fray
- Long range weapons are always an option
CONS:
- Paladin does not really have strategic advantage of having high Stealth. Ok, your first smite from around the corner may prove to be a critical. But that's not really our method, isn't it?
- I'm not sure if Alert Feat works whilst you are asleep. If not, DM will simply start all surprise rounds whilst paladin is out of the picture.
- Whilst going first and going nova is a nice option, i think it is intended for an Assassin or a real Controller- type character. Will paladin have any milage out of this?
- Less options for magic items, no real protection for your trusted destrier and less AC (17 vs 18 doesn't seem that significant though).
- Sneaky alert man in light armor does not cry "Paladin" to me.

What kind of paladin out of two you would welcome to your party?

[Socko525]

I'm going to throw a yes in alert column. In the game I'm currently playing I'm an OoA Paladin. Granted I'm Str based but still have a 12 Dex (we rolled stats) but I took Alert at 4th level.

It has saved not only my butt, but the collective party's butt as well, so many times. Acting first in combat and not being surprised gives you the ability to position yourself in the most opportune place to have your auras effect the most allies.

Knocking that fireball damage down to half (or a quarter if they make the save, that much easier thanks to your other aura) can save the squishier memebers of the party easily.

[djreynolds]

Have fun. Just play it. Someone has to try the dex based paladin. OoA is such a cool concept. Who the druid calls when someone is burning the woods?

But play within the rules. At the end of the day, loaded dice really rule.

Also if you never multiclass, you'll never need a 13 strength.

The Green Knight was in the end, an adversary of King Arthur's Court.

I'm curious to see the build, I'm playing a non PC wizard for the first time, and I'm out hand. Badly. I'm so controlling. ........And I love it!!!!!

[Strill]

Whilst Lance is good, it's main advantage (reach) is somewhat counterproductive to the advantage of having an Intelligent mountThe main advantage of a Lance is not its reach. It's the fact that it's a 1-handed weapon that does the damage of a 2-handed weapon.

[Georlik]

I'm going to throw a yes in alert column. Granted I'm Str based but still have a 12 Dex (we rolled stats) but I took Alert at 4th level.

It has saved not only my butt, but the collective party's butt as well, so many times.

Should i consider taking Alert on a Strength based paladin?

[Shining Wrath]

If you're about to go into the Underdark I have to advise against a mounted build. It is notoriously full of narrow twisty passages all alike and twisty narrow passages each different.

The Alert feat is nifty and can be added to any build.

[Socko525]

Should i consider taking Alert on a Strength based paladin?

Based on experience I would reccomend it. Especially since as a Strength paladin your Dex score is going to be low, your initiative mod before a roll will be low or perhaps even non-existent.

Without Alert, I would have a 1 before my roll on initiative checks. Thanks to Alert I now start with a 6 (or 7 assuming a roll of 1) Sometimes that 6/7 alone allows you to act before the less Dextrous monsters, and that could be life or death...or the difference between an ally living or dying.

[Tarvil]

It's probably too late, but I advise against hybrid Str/Dex build for Paladin. You can't maintain high STR, Charisma, 14 dex and acceptable CON and WIS. It's good with Barbarians, Paladins are too MAD for this.

IMO, If you want stealthy Ancient Pally, you should ask your GM to rebuild you character, and go for full DEX build. Dump STR and INT, fight with rapier&shield, take Alert and Resilient (CON) and never look back.

[Georlik]

It's probably too late, but I advise against hybrid Str/Dex build for Paladin. You can't maintain high STR, Charisma, 14 dex and acceptable CON and WIS. It's good with Barbarians, Paladins are too MAD for this.

IMO, If you want stealthy Ancient Pally, you should ask your GM to rebuild you character, and go for full DEX build. Dump STR and INT, fight with rapier&shield, take Alert and Resilient (CON) and never look back.

Thank you for the advice. It is not too late as I have about a week to make changes to my character.
Hybrid build is doable even with point-buy. I started as a standard Human with 16,14,14,11,10,14 and planned to max my Str and Cha by the end of the character's career.

Unfortunately such build implies that I have neither good stealth capabilities (as i took Noble background and Paladin class does not provide proficiency in stealth), nor the best armor (breastplate offers 2 point less of protection, and half plate has stealth disadvantage). So much for being strong and nimble :(

What I want is for my character to survive the perils of adventurer's life, whilst having a strong identity.

Rules of Adventurer's League permit to rebuild any character before lvl 5 so you may assume I already have DM's permission.

As for the mount in the Underdark, I can always ride a Giant Lizard if such choice is favorable ;)

[Tarvil]

Personally, I don't like Mounted Combatant. Don't get me wrong, feat is great, but DMs tend to take it from you during important fight. It's safer to trust your own foots ;).

Remember that you can take use human free skill point to buy stealth/acrobatics.

[djreynolds]

Thank you for the advice. It is not too late as I have about a week to make changes to my character.
Hybrid build is doable even with point-buy. I started as a standard Human with 16,14,14,11,10,14 and planned to max my Str and Cha by the end of the character's career.

Unfortunately such build implies that I have neither good stealth capabilities (as i took Noble background and Paladin class does not provide proficiency in stealth), nor the best armor (breastplate offers 2 point less of protection, and half plate has stealth disadvantage). So much for being strong and nimble :(

What I want is for my character to survive the perils of adventurer's life, whilst having a strong identity.

Rules of Adventurer's League permit to rebuild any character before lvl 5 so you may assume I already have DM's permission.

As for the mount in the Underdark, I can always ride a Giant Lizard if such choice is favorable ;)

You know having a high dexterity is not the only way to be good at stealth. Obviously magic is one way, but a quick multiclass dip into rogue for one level gives you expertise in two stats, hello stealth and perception. The rogue is not just a guy in black or the shadows anymore. He could be Sherlock Holmes.

Think about it, if you're crawling around in the underdark, like a " Tunnel Rat" in Vietnam, you're not doing it in plate armor nor are you exercising paladin like skills so it very plausible that you pick up stealth techniques from your fellow colleagues. Alert is an awesome feat and if the DM is playing hardcore, good for him. The underdark is 3 dimensional nightmare, so you better be on your toes.

Multiclass is a great tool. If you are partied up with rogues and rangers you are going to pick up their habits. If you are radioman hanging out with grunts, you're going to be chewing tobacco and swearing.

Anyways I'd like to see the build at some point

[djreynolds]

You have already a 14 in dex for plus 2 and then add 2x your proficiency bonus to it. The rogue is only going to beat you by 3 points in stealth. That's it. 6+6+2=14, 6+6+5=17

Paladins can fight in leather armor, chainmail can be stuffed in a back pack that can be dropped during a fight and picked up later. People forget that they are not always in armor, point is you're not always wearing plate or chain.

Please don't let the optimization aspect, ruin your gameplay. A halberd in a tunnel, you could hold off bad guys in front you for a long time. Alert so worth it. +5 on initiative is huge. Going first means killing first, means wounding first. A wounded adversary must now decide to disengage, drink a potion, or just hesitate and you swing again. The polearm master feat is worth it for manning the frontlines with sentinel. Heavy or medium armor master is not worth as much as you grabbing magic adept for a healing spell or something useful for the underdark. But multiclassing to rogue is better than ranger because you get expertise.

But like I tell the guys at my table, though it looks good on paper and with crazy math, doesn't mean that its in the dice. In one game I'm wizard, and another a champion. I have two critical hits.

[Georlik]

Thank you all for your advice.
Now I'm more inclined to make strength paladin with alert feat. Will see how it plays out. Now that i have a free proficiency skill from V. Human should i take Stealth in order to offset the penalty from heavy armor? It seems that i do not need perception that much (alert and divine sense provide enough options to pinpoint the adversary).
Obviously I have 2 "strong skills" of athletics and persuasion.

[JellyPooga]

I realise it's a bit left field, as you didn't suggest in in your OP, but have you considered the Shield Master Feat?

If I were building this character for the Underdark, I'd go with something like the following:

Race: Variant Human
- Ability Score Increase: +1 Dex, +1 Cha
- Skill Prof: Perception
- Feat: Shield Master
Class/Level: Paladin (OoA) / 4
- Skill Prof: Athletics, Intimidation
- Fighting Style: Dueling
- Level 4 Feat: Dungeon Delver
Base Ability Scores: Str:10, Dex:15, Con:13, Int:8, Wis:12, Cha:15
Modified Ability Scores: Str:10, Dex:16, Con:13, Int:8, Wis:12, Cha:16
Background: Urchin
- Skill Prof: SoH, Stealth
- Tool Prof: Disguise Kit, Thieves
Equipment:
Rapier (+5 melee, 1d8+5 piercing)
Breastplate Armour + Shield (AC:18)

In combat; you have very respectable offence and defensive capability, between good AC and Smites for damage. Shield Master gives you some earlier protection from AoE and Dex-based attacks, which stacks up nicely with the Auras you'll pick up later. The shield-bash isn't particularly useful to you, with only +2 to your roll, but hey, you might as well roll the dice if you're not using your Bonus Action otherwise, right? You might get lucky and there's no backlash from it!

Out of Combat; you have a Passive Perception of 18 to notice secret doors, can search for traps at normal pace and are basically immune to them if you fail to spot them. You are also capable to assisting the party Rogue (assuming there is one) in all manners relating to traps and locks, potentially granting him Advantage when doing so. If there is no party Rogue, you've got locks and traps well covered.

Later Development; I'd pick up Resilient (Con) at level 8, to bump that 13 to a 14 and get proficiency in a very useful Save. After that, I'd go 12th: +2 Cha, 16th: +2 Cha, 19th: +2 Dex. Alternatives to the ASI's would be Observant (PP>20 vs. secret doors), Alert (always go first!) and Skulker (to avoid lighting penalties).