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LordotTrinkets
2015-08-17, 11:10 PM
So I'm in a situation where I need to play out how an actual hunt would hunt deer. The environment is an open valley with a tributary and very heavy plant growth at the bottom, all in the winter. Huntsman and PC are both hidden in the growth around the tributary and are moving down wind of their target.

So far, I THINK that I've done things right, but I'm not too sure about what the professional way to go in for the kill would be. Do you just go for the head and make it as fast and lethal as possible? If so, would there be any way of doing that without permanently scaring the rest of the herd away from this locale? If not, did I just involuntarily make an incompetent deer hunter? Note, they have crossbows, clubs, and eldritch blasts; but that last one won't likely come into play.

Coidzor
2015-08-18, 12:00 AM
When bow-hunting you want a heart-lung shot from what I recall, at least with modern bows. I imagine that something similar is in play with non-compound bows. edit: Oh, wait, cross-bows. Yeah, pretty sure you go for heart-lung shot with a crossbow too.

Generally you won't penetrate the skull and do enough damage to the brain to cause instant death with most projectile weapons, unless you manage to get right through the eyeball and into the brain case just so.

I couldn't tell you about how to stalk a deer in order to take a shot, exactly, as opposed to waiting near where deer need/like to go and taking the shot as it presents itself.

There's no way to permanently scare deer away from an area if there's a reason they were coming there in the first place without just regularly having people or other animals there to scare them off. And even then we have examples today of deer wandering around suburbs. Granted that's largely because going into a suburb is not the death sentence for a deer that wandering into a medieval village would have been.

If the deer wasn't dead from the arrow, IIRC they'd slit its throat once they judged it safe enough to approach without being gored by an antler or struck by hooves. Might slit its throat anyway to drain the blood.

As long as they clean up the offal the rest of the deer should only stay away from the area for so long. Leaving offal and guts and blood laying around delays how willing they'll be to go near the area for a time depending upon just how much of it there was left.

So if they have dogs or similar to feed, they should be fine to just take most of the carcass with them and use it for one purpose or another.

FlumphPaladin
2015-08-18, 07:34 AM
DISCLAIMER: I have never been deer hunting. Everyone else in my family has, and so has everyone I grew up with. My experience is therefore somewhat limited.

With that out of the way, Coidzor pretty much says it all. One thing I would add is that a bow, even though the arrow/bolt usually passes entirely through the animal's body, they will still usually take off when hit. While I've never shot one, I have been called upon by my father or brother to help them track down one of their deer and recover it. That can be surprisingly difficult, usually because of how small and spread out the trail is (think, a couple red dots on the ground every five feet or so). We never found my niece's first deer, despite there being four of us.

Templarkommando
2015-08-18, 09:35 AM
I haven't been deer hunting per se - I've held a pair of binoculars while my friend was hunting deer with a muzzleloader - but I have been turkey hunting, and I know a little about how deer hunting is supposed to go in addition to a little about medieval sensibilities.

I want to deal with your question directly first - you shoot a deer around where the front legs meet the spine, or a little lower. You can actually google "Where to shoot a deer" and there are some helpful diagrams. Shooting one in the wrong place can actually make your day a lot worse, because they'll run away. They may or may not die after this, and if they do, you may have to walk considerably farther than you had hoped to carry your deer carcass to where you wanted it. Headshots are generally not a good idea - it's just not as effective a shot. You'd think that killing a deer in a field would permanently scare other animals off from that field - it doesn't. In fact, you could probably take a pickup truck full of hicks into that pasture and have a party with blasting music and oceans of beer, and still be able to find a deer there in a few weeks or at least when the smell is gone.

It is possible to stalk a deer, but it requires a lot of stealth. Even moving through grass can attract a deer's attention - which would indicate a high listen check. There are certain hunting practices that are generally observed - you don't kill extremely young deer, and you generally leave does (that is lady deer) alone, though there are certain times of year where you can harvest a deer at least in a modern setting. This is because if you have lots of females, it will help to repopulate the area, and yearlings tend to not be as desirable as an older kill.

Let me tell you a little about the deer hunting trip that I went on. We got up really early - before sunrise - and went to our site. We found a fairly covered/wooded area overlooking a field with winter wheat. We could hide in this place fairly easily and keep an eye out for anything coming through. So we sat down and waited for the sun to rise. Periodically we had some does and yearlings wonder through. I think there were about 4 does and maybe 6 yearlings - it's been a while since I've been so I'm half-remembering. None of them seemed to interest my friend who was specifically after a buck. At one point a large flock of Tom turkeys wondered through and we stalked off after them. We didn't ever get close enough to land a shot though. We didn't catch anything, but we saw a lot. It was an interesting experience.

In the modern era there are certain practices instituted to protect wildlife. Hunting runs in seasons. I live in Oklahoma, and there is a bow season, a blackpowder/muzzleloader season, and a rifle season. This may be old hat for a lot of you, but it may be useful information to keep in mind depending on your campaign setting. Bow season is usually a longer season and the others are progressively shorter. This is in part because bow hunting is viewed as a little more sporting than rifle hunting. Hunting out of season is against the law and can result in jail time, and fines. In addition to seasons, each hunter generally has a limit on the things that he's hunting with the exception of pests - for example wild boars are a big problem in the south of the U.S., so there's actually no limit on them, but their meat isn't as tasty. I think you generally get a limit of 1 deer per season, but I imagine this depends on local laws. If you shoot more than your limit, you can again be fined or receive jail time. In addition, there are some other laws (Your shotgun can only hold 3 shells, don't carry a loaded weapon in your vehicle etc.) which can result in having your weapon confiscated permanently.

In the middle ages, deer(amongst other types of game like foxes I imagine) are specifically reserved to royalty and nobility - with few exceptions. A person that hunts deer for the King, and also cares for the deer by leaving food for them would be a forester. Hunting the King's deer, or the Earl's deer could result in harsh punishments (which should really be subject to the mood of your campaign). These punishments include things like jail time, or being pilloried, in addition to amputation of fingers or hands (I imagine heads as well in certain jurisdictions). There are different kinds of arrows. A broadhead is generally for hunting, so if you are caught carrying broadhead arrows in the King's forest by the King's foresters, they assume you were using them to hunt. Bodkin tips are specifically for killing armored soldiers, which causes all sorts of other problems, because the assumption there is that you are either a spy, an outlaw, or something to that effect.

Hunting smaller game might be allowable - various birds, squirrels, rabbits and similar animals. You might could pay the local noble to allow you to harvest one of his bigger animals, or you could always just poach it from him.

You can incorporate all or none of this into your campaign world - depending on what your setting is like. There might be laws that allow for extenuating circumstances (you hunt a deer in the middle of a blizzard to keep from starving).

LordotTrinkets
2015-08-18, 11:04 AM
Thanks everybody, that was all some very enlightening information, especially the part about deer being traditionally reserved for royalty.

As mentioned before, the huntsman is a warlock, so he's out hunting mostly as a rite. I think that I will, in fact, include the rule about no-deer-hunting, as it adds a nice little morsel of flavor. Thankfully, the huntsman is a tradesman, so I can use that as a way to keep the story from moving into a court case.

Slipperychicken
2015-08-18, 07:45 PM
So I'm in a situation where I need to play out how an actual hunt would hunt deer. The environment is an open valley with a tributary and very heavy plant growth at the bottom, all in the winter. Huntsman and PC are both hidden in the growth around the tributary and are moving down wind of their target.


Shouldn't you be going to a hunting forum or something for this? There are people IRL who still hunt deer with crossbows, so they'd know better than us.

Vercingex
2015-08-18, 07:56 PM
So this doesn't pertain directly to your question, but might give you some perspective on other forms of hunting, and is interesting in and of itself.

It is very possible to run down a deer on foot- you just have to be an incredible endurance runner. A Native American nation in the Pacific Northwest (the Lummi I believe) have a tradition of hunting deer on foot for religious reasons. The idea is to track the deer until it is exhausted, then kill it without damaging the hide. The traditional method is (spoilered for slightly graphic content)

To put your mouth to the deer's mouth and suck the air out of it's lungs, suffocating it.

Another thing worth noting- while a well-conditioned human can run down a deer, some deer and antelope species will gather in small herds then split apart, making tracking individuals very difficult.

Strigon
2015-08-19, 08:14 AM
(Snip)

Those are the most manly men to ever man.

LordotTrinkets
2015-08-19, 09:50 AM
Shouldn't you be going to a hunting forum or something for this? There are people IRL who still hunt deer with crossbows, so they'd know better than us.

I probably should have, but, well... I didn't. Got at least enough information to fake it though.


Those are the most manly men to ever man.

I disagree, they'd need to strangle them with their beards to be that.

FlumphPaladin
2015-08-19, 11:16 AM
I disagree, they'd need to strangle them with their beards to be that.
Instead of just getting to first base with them...

JAL_1138
2015-08-19, 11:31 AM
When bow-hunting you want a heart-lung shot from what I recall, at least with modern bows. I imagine that something similar is in play with non-compound bows. edit: Oh, wait, cross-bows. Yeah, pretty sure you go for heart-lung shot with a crossbow too.

Generally you won't penetrate the skull and do enough damage to the brain to cause instant death with most projectile weapons, unless you manage to get right through the eyeball and into the brain case just so.

I couldn't tell you about how to stalk a deer in order to take a shot, exactly, as opposed to waiting near where deer need/like to go and taking the shot as it presents itself.

There's no way to permanently scare deer away from an area if there's a reason they were coming there in the first place without just regularly having people or other animals there to scare them off. And even then we have examples today of deer wandering around suburbs. Granted that's largely because going into a suburb is not the death sentence for a deer that wandering into a medieval village would have been.

If the deer wasn't dead from the arrow, IIRC they'd slit its throat once they judged it safe enough to approach without being gored by an antler or struck by hooves. Might slit its throat anyway to drain the blood.

As long as they clean up the offal the rest of the deer should only stay away from the area for so long. Leaving offal and guts and blood laying around delays how willing they'll be to go near the area for a time depending upon just how much of it there was left.

So if they have dogs or similar to feed, they should be fine to just take most of the carcass with them and use it for one purpose or another.


This is pretty much it. I use a rifle rather than crossbow, but the only difference is range. You still go for heart/lung and they frequently go a ways before dropping, though with a rifle you sometimes break the shoulder, limiting the distance they run, or drop them on the spot. With deer, due to Chronic Wasting Disease (similar to Mad Cow and found in brain/spinal fluid) you try to avoid piercing the spinal membrane or the brain membranes, but it's a fairly recent disease limited to North America. No headshots (plus they're hard to hit), even on a wounded animal at close range. On most game if it was still alive when you catch up to it after a shot, you'd either shoot again (heart/lung or head with a gun) or stick a knife under the base of the skull from the back and sever the brain stem.
[DO NOT ATTEMPT THAT WITH BOARS OR BEARS. Shoot again and finish it off with a boar-spear (medieval) or shoot again (gun) or let it bleed out (modern, no gun).]

In medieval times and, for that matter, modern Europe, you sometimes got "driven" hunts, where a number of people making a lot of noise spread out through the woods and scare game toward a stationary hunter, but that doesn't really apply to this situation.

GungHo
2015-08-19, 01:27 PM
It is very possible to run down a deer on foot- you just have to be an incredible endurance runner. A Native American nation in the Pacific Northwest (the Lummi I believe) have a tradition of hunting deer on foot for religious reasons. The idea is to track the deer until it is exhausted, then kill it without damaging the hide. The traditional method is (spoilered for slightly graphic content)

To put your mouth to the deer's mouth and suck the air out of it's lungs, suffocating it.

Another thing worth noting- while a well-conditioned human can run down a deer, some deer and antelope species will gather in small herds then split apart, making tracking individuals very difficult.

Endurance hunting is a competitive advantage for humans and has been practiced in many indigenous cultures.

DireSickFish
2015-08-19, 04:38 PM
I have not stalked deer but it is possible. Always aim for dead center mass when shooting to kill which as a previous poster mentioned is the lungs/heart under the right shoulder. Whitetail deer tend to circle when spooked, they will get up leave and circle right back to the spot they were just at. Does will stay in a relatively small area most there life (2miles or so) but bucks will travel as much as 15 miles a day while in rutt (which is int he fall). So no worry about chasing all the deer away.

It can vary wildly on if the deer is going to sense you when walking up on it. They have amazing scent and ears and on noisy days they lose there minds. But sometimes you walk right up ont hem and they'll stare at you figuring out what is going on.

Driving or just waiting in a stand is a more effective tactic for deer hunting. It could make for a great sceen when the lesson is patience and not some tracking/sneaking skill. You literally just get up in a tree, or use a ground blind, and sit in an area there are a lot of deer trails.

Driving is the same thing except you have some guy walking through the woods in your direction scaring deer your way. Because they circle you don't really funnel every deer between you and the guy on the stand, you're lucky if one or two get scared the guy in the stands way. With more people you can potentially drive a bigger are and keep them from circling behind you.

I've done a lot of whitetail deer hunting with a rifle and have friends/family that hunt with bows.