Character Generation methods.

[GoblinGilmartin]

So, I've been trying to decide what the "best" method for rolling a character is. I know there really isn't one, as a lot of it comes down to personal preference, but I would like to discuss "preferred" methods.

I've always been way too nice to players in regards to stats. 4d6 drop lowest, anything below 10 becomes 10, if you want to reroll, reroll the whole set.

I've done AD&D "just 3d6, deal with it", which is okay...if you're running AD&D. I've been avoiding point buy for the longest time. I just feel it takes away some of the fun and randomness of character creation, and makes players think too much about their character in terms of stats, but that's just the kind of DM I am. I'd been thinking about 4d4+2, but during all my experiments with that, the numbers tend to be really bland, averaging 12-15..

[Freelance GM]

I just started trying this, based on a variant rule from Alternity:

All of your stats start at 8. You roll 7 six-sided dice, and assign them to your stats. Multiple dice, or no dice, can be assigned to a score, but no stat can be raised above a 15 before adding your racial bonuses. If you roll a 6, you can split it into 6 1's.

Suppose I roll a 6, 4, 3, 2, 2, 2, and a 1.

I could make a fighter by distributing the dice like this:
STR - 8 +6 + 1 = 15
DEX - 8 +4 + 2 = 14
CON - 8 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 14
INT - 8
WIS - 8 + 2 = 10
CHA - 8

Or I could make a Cleric with the same array, like this:
STR - 8 + 2 + 2 = 12
DEX - 8 + 2 = 10
CON - 8 + 4 + 2 = 14
INT - 8
WIS - 8 + 6 +1 = 15
CHA - 8 + 3 = 11

I like it, because it combines the strategy of a point-buy with the randomness of rolling stats. I designed it for 5th Edition D&D; it has the same range as 5E's standard point-buy. This means the best stat you'll have at level 1 is a 17, which still has room for improvement. Your character isn't "the best" from the start.

It works especially well for lower-fantasy, because characters have to have one or more dump stats unless you roll really well. (Like, nothing less than a 3.) Be sure to emphasize that 10-11 is "average human," if you choose to do this. Once my players realized 8 INT was a little slow, but not an idiot, they started to really enjoy this system.

So far, the main problem(?) I've found is that if you roll 7 6's, you can get straight 15s. If you play 5E's standard human, then that means +1 to everything for straight 16's. However, I think the the chances of that are 1/(6^7) or something like that.

[Joe the Rat]

In general, the more dice you roll and keep, the more you steer towards the average. To keep the 6-18 range with a somewhat flatter distribution (more highs and lows), you could go 4+1d6+1d8 (assuming you don't have a pair of d7s). It sounds though like 2d6+6 might better fit your preferences.

My current go-to for rolling is 4d6k3, assigned as you roll, with a final reroll or swap. It ends up being a little bit of a gamble on what you get (Do I stick the 16 in dex, or hope for better?), as well as some amusing "dump stat" surprises. The final swap/roll lets you move a late-sequence 18 to a more desirable stat, but still (likely) keeping that formerly-18 stat highish. Or you can throw out that 4 and hope for better. It's still quite possible to end up with a middlin' range of stats, as our monk will attest.

One that I've seen (and damned if I can remember who uses it) that I've thought about trying is roll 3, inverse 3. You roll (3d6 or 4d6k3) three times, and then subtract each of those numbers from 24-26 (double whatever your target average is) to get three more scores - with a cap at 18. So if you roll a 16, you also get an 8 or 10. If you roll below a certain value (6 or 8), you get an 18. Every crappy roll generates a good roll, and vice versa.

[goto124]

I thought this thread would be about the roleplay aspects of character generation, personality and backstory and all.

Because wouldn't the stats and crunchy bits would be highly dependant on the game system?

[Telonius]

Unless I'm going for something gritty, I like the party to have some pretty heroic stats. Generally I give each player one free 18. For each of the other stats: 4d6, reroll any ones once, drop the lowest. If the modifiers (discounting the 18) add up to less than +3, reroll. If the dice are feeling truly vengeful against a particular player, they can take an array instead.

If I were going to use point buy, I'd probably have different buys for each base class (chosen for class tier and general MAD-ness).

[KillianHawkeye]

Because wouldn't the stats and crunchy bits would be highly dependant on the game system?

While it is certainly true that non-D&D-related games can differ greatly, it's also true that every version of D&D (and those games based on a similar ruleset, including Pathfinder, D20 Modern, and at least two versions of Star Wars) uses essentially the same range of values for starting ability scores (3 to 18).



For my D&D games, I generally use a 4d6b3 method with the additional caveat that all 1s should be re-rolled (multiple times if necessary). Some DMs in my group like to give everyone a free 18, or to let us replace our lowest roll with an 18, one guy lets us re-roll 1s and 2s, while another guy dispenses with rolling altogether with his own version of point-buy.

[Geddy2112]

My group usually does 4d6, re roll 1's and 2's, drop the lowest. So stats should come out between 9 and 18. I am going to switch to an array for the next time I game though. Our group generally plays high/epic fantasy, but it is hard to DM when you have players with multiple 20's in ability scores. 9-18 is a wide range and can lead to a power discrepancy.

I like the idea of 8's and then rolling 7d6's, and applying dice anywhere for max 15 stats. It still has room for characters to vary though.

Array is fair and sets all characters on the same page so one person does not simply overshadow the rest of the party. I am probably going to do a 15,13,12,12,10,8 for my next game(lower fantasy).

[Talyn]

There was a discussion, ages ago, about random stats, and one of the most important things I took from it was that poor rolls hurt more than good rolls help.

Let's say you use 4d6 drop one.

The guy with the hot dice on chargen day who ends up with Batman (you know, something like 16 15 14 18 14 16, and yes, I've seen an honest rolls character with that spread) - he's a little more powerful than your standard array. The guy who ends up with the village idiot, though (8 7 9 6 12 5, and yes I've seen that spread, too), is SUBSTANTIALLY worse, to the point where the character is almost murderously ineffective.

Why? Because of ability dependency. Every class has one or two stats that most of their abilities key off of - so, if you roll Batman, your two primary stats are only a little better than Mr. Standard Array. If you have the Village Idiot, though, you simply don't have the scores to be good at whatever it is your class is supposed to be good at, making you at best a non-entity and more likely a liability.

For this reason, I tend to avoid rolling stats, and instead just set a point buy amount. If I want to avoid excessive min-maxing, I'll just set a max ability score you can have at 1st level (which historically has been 16 before racial modifiers).

[TristenC]

One thing that has worked a lot for me in the past (I feel 18s should be difficult but not impossible):

Custom
3d6 8or9 times, keep the best 6 sets. Re-rolls allowed if total points are below 45 for the best 6 sets.

Then, you can choose to add a +1 to up to any 3 stats (no +2s. Ever.), but you have to take an equal amount of -1s to different stats. Then you apply racial modifiers.

I allow Racial mods to go over 18, but not the adds; and no stat of 20. Exceptional strength only if a straight 18 is rolled for a warrior.


This helps keep players out of the pits without making them overpowered.

[Knaight]

While it is certainly true that non-D&D-related games can differ greatly, it's also true that every version of D&D (and those games based on a similar ruleset, including Pathfinder, D20 Modern, and at least two versions of Star Wars) uses essentially the same range of values for starting ability scores (3 to 18).

So does GURPS, that doesn't mean that the same character generation would work. The thread also doesn't say anything about being D&D dependent (though the use of the term DM in lieu of GM strongly suggests it).

As for character generation systems, I tend to dislike randomness unless the characters are understood to be very short term. I'm usually not super picky on the exact nature of how non-randomness happens, as long as it doesn't get in the way of too much character design.

[Fri]

If you want randomness but also want to make players can make most of the character idea they want, just use random roll as usual, but give each player one above average stats of their choosing. Something like, for dnd roll 3d6 for each stats, but then you can change one stat into 16.