3.P - Feats for Kensai

[Red Rubber Band]

'Allo.

Doing a Kensai build (Pathfinder with 3.5 allowed) and unsure what to take for feats.

I have two builds I want to go through before choosing which one I'd prefer:

Human Binder 4 / Fighter 2 / Kensai 5 (probably Binder +4 afterwards) - Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus, Improved Binding. 6-7 feats free at level 11 (1 fighter, 1 binder)
Human Paladin 5 / Kensai X (probably stay Kensai) - Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus. 4-5 feats free at level 11.


6 (Binder) or 4 (Paladin) feats free if I don't take a flaw, 7 or 5 if I do.

The Binder will bind Eurynome for the Warhammer (taking Improved Binding). If I go with this build it's mostly certain I will continue Binder so I can summon two vestiges (the other being Savnok for the armour).
The Paladin will take the weapon version of Divine Bond.

Some more criteria:

I don't expect this character to get higher than level 15.
I would prefer them to be a bit different than Ye Olde 2H PA; extra points for going, dare I say it, Sword and Board with the Paladin.
If wanting to make a ranged character go for big, heavy shots. Not a rapid pew pew archer.
Although I am rather partial to what I have so far, feel free to suggest a different entry class or two. I'm not 100% against Paladin 2 instead of Fighter 2.


I feel Power Surge will be a part of this guys shtick, even though I want to stay clear of PA. It'll be a descriptive game, with zero stat buffs apart from levelling. For someone to gain 8 Strength suddenly... it will leave an impression; try to leave some room for Travel Devotion, or Sudden Leap, so that this character can go Saiyan and not twiddle their thumbs until next turn.

[WhamBamSam]

If you're intending to bind the same vestiges pretty much every day, then the Binder version should go Knight of the Sacred Seal instead of going back into Binder, especially as you're already taking Weapon Focus. You should also ask your DM if the Kensai's Signiture Weapon ability will play nicely with Euryonome's Maul, because I'm not sure that's the case. You might find that there are more effective vestiges for what you want though. Tenebrous, for instance, would give you fuel for Travel Devotion (though the Paladin build and its in-built Turn Undead might work better for that), an

I'd take Hidden Talent at first level. The ability to expend Psionic Focus to take 15 on a Concentration check will more or less ensure that you have as many uses/day of Power Surge as you want/need. You might also get something of value out of access to a 1st level power.

If you want to make use of high Str but not Power Attack, then Knock-down tripping might be your best bet. You're already locked into Combat Expertise for Kensai anyway, so you might as well.

[Red Rubber Band]

If you're intending to bind the same vestiges pretty much every day, then the Binder version should go Knight of the Sacred Seal instead of going back into Binder, especially as you're already taking Weapon Focus.

You might find that there are more effective vestiges for what you want though. Tenebrous, for instance, would give you fuel for Travel Devotion (though the Paladin build and its in-built Turn Undead might work better for that)
It is definitely something I should keep in mind, but losing the ability to summon armour in addition to a weapon just... makes me sad :smallfrown:
I guess I should tally up the benefits I get from binding Tenebrous or going Knight as opposed to summoning armour.


You should also ask your DM if the Kensai's Signiture Weapon ability will play nicely with Euryonome's Maul, because I'm not sure that's the case.
I will, but I am almost certain they will work together due to conversations had in the past regarding Kensai and it's ability.


I'd take Hidden Talent at first level. The ability to expend Psionic Focus to take 15 on a Concentration check will more or less ensure that you have as many uses/day of Power Surge as you want/need. You might also get something of value out of access to a 1st level power.
Hmm. I shall look into that.


If you want to make use of high Str but not Power Attack, then Knock-down tripping might be your best bet. You're already locked into Combat Expertise for Kensai anyway, so you might as well.
This actually made me realise I wouldn't have an aversion to a single, strong shot archer. Going to edit the OP. And I will look at Knockdown abilities. Trip has been overdone a bit lately for us.

Thank you :smallsmile:

[WhamBamSam]

It is definitely something I should keep in mind, but losing the ability to summon armour in addition to a weapon just... makes me sad
I guess I should tally up the benefits I get from binding Tenebrous or going Knight as opposed to summoning armour.Knight of the Sacred Seal doesn't lessen the number of vestiges you can bind, it just locks one of them in. A Binder 4/KoSS 4 can still bind two vestiges just like a Binder 8, since KoSS advances Soul Binding.


This actually made me realise I wouldn't have an aversion to a single, strong shot archer. Going to edit the OP. And I will look at Knockdown abilities. Trip has been overdone a bit lately for us.Single shot archery is one of the things 3.5 doesn't support very well (dunno about PF, my understanding is that PoW has more ranged support than ToB and I know Power Shot exists, so maybe). It's also a concept near and dear to my hear though, so I have put a bit of work into working out ways of optimizing it. One of my ideas for it is actually a Paladin, but I don't think there'd really be room for Kensai in the build.

It was mostly just the first thing that came to mind as a non-Power Attack thing to do with lot's of Str.

You could try harpoon throwing, I guess, since you don't mind non-flurry ranged attacking. Controlling a harpooned target to keep them from moving away from you is an opposed Str check.

You could also go for grappling, though the Str boost (and potentially Hidden Talent (Grip of Iron)) are the only synergy I see there. You won't have a high enough Effective Binder Level for Zagan, and you don't seem to have easy access to a size increase or other popular grapple bonuses without changing a bunch of levels around.


Thank you :smallsmile:You're welcome. Happy to help.

[Rubik]

You should consider Ancestral Relic and Item Familiar so you can add two more self-made items to what you've got.

Also, have you considered soulbound psychic warrior? You can use Call Weapon to summon yourself something really good, such as an elvencraft longbow, which is one of the most versatile weapons in the game, or a spiked chain, which is almost as good (and better at some things).

[Red Rubber Band]

Knight of the Sacred Seal doesn't lessen the number of vestiges you can bind, it just locks one of them in. A Binder 4/KoSS 4 can still bind two vestiges just like a Binder 8, since KoSS advances Soul Binding.
Well there you go. I thought it just advanced your Binder level.


Single shot archery is one of the things 3.5 doesn't support very well (dunno about PF, my understanding is that PoW has more ranged support than ToB and I know Power Shot exists, so maybe). It's also a concept near and dear to my hear though, so I have put a bit of work into working out ways of optimizing it. One of my ideas for it is actually a Paladin, but I don't think there'd really be room for Kensai in the build.
I will have to dive a bit deeper into PF then. They do have a power shot, so that's a step!


You could try harpoon throwing, I guess, since you don't mind non-flurry ranged attacking. Controlling a harpooned target to keep them from moving away from you is an opposed Str check.

You could also go for grappling, though the Str boost (and potentially Hidden Talent (Grip of Iron)) are the only synergy I see there. You won't have a high enough Effective Binder Level for Zagan, and you don't seem to have easy access to a size increase or other popular grapple bonuses without changing a bunch of levels around.
Interesting. I like the harpoon throwing idea.

Grappling could work as well. The campaign world seems to consist mostly of medium size creatures. But doing nothing when facing much larger opponents would be annoying.


You should consider Ancestral Relic and Item Familiar so you can add two more self-made items to what you've got.

Also, have you considered soulbound psychic warrior? You can use Call Weapon to summon yourself something really good, such as an elvencraft longbow, which is one of the most versatile weapons in the game, or a spiked chain, which is almost as good (and better at some things).

Item Familiar is on the table. A very closely CCTV monitored table with a button for the DM to blow it all up when/if they feel like it. But, hey, at least there's a table for it.
Psionics isn't strictly banned... but the campaign world is evolving and until such time as I see a psyker of some kind I would prefer to keep psionics as low key as possible. I like how it's playing out, and don't want to push anything too quickly.
Besides, if I introduce things like psionics slowly and it turns out fine I may be able to push for more than a feat or two from ToB :smalltongue: