Shadowrun: Hong Kong

[Cikomyr]

Its here folks!!!

[VexingFool]

Looking forward to playing this when I get home from work. Nothing on the DVR to distract me. :smallsmile:

A little disappointed that there will not be an iPad version this time. I really enjoyed playing the other Shadowrun's while sitting in my recliner or during my downtime at work.

Not sure what to play this time, I've pretty much tried all the various combo's of weapons/skills in the previous versions. Are there any new mechanics introduced for Hong Kong? Anyone have any unique builds I might try?

[Cikomyr]

For what i have seen in commentaries, so far, is that the game feels like an expansion. New art, new story, new characters, but no new mechanics.

[factotum]

Going to be a while before I get round to this--got Dragon Age: Inquisition to finish first. Interested to see what they've done with it, though.

[shadow_archmagi]

For what i have seen in commentaries, so far, is that the game feels like an expansion. New art, new story, new characters, but no new mechanics.

I have no objections. I would play Dragonfall 2: More Dragons, More Fall

[Cristo Meyers]

Going to be a while before I get round to this--got Dragon Age: Inquisition to finish first. Interested to see what they've done with it, though.

Same here. I'm interested, but it's going to be a while. I still haven't finished the Dragonfall Director's Cut and to be perfectly honest, I might not even do that. All that's left are the last two runs and neither were exactly stellar the first time through.

[VexingFool]

Ack, go to download game from GOG and find I have to wait 2 more hours to download. By the time I get it downloaded and installed it'll be time to go to bed. :smallfrown:

On the upside GOG now has the Forgotten Realms Gold Box D&D games. Hopefully the Krynn ones won't be far behind.

I hope that one mechanic they re-use from Dragonfall Director's cut is for the customization of the NPC runner's. I really liked those custom skills and abilities for the crew. Being able to choose Shotguns or Sniper for Eiger, melee or pistols for Glory or whether to focus more on drones over decking for Blitz.

[Cikomyr]

I have no objections. I would play Dragonfall 2: More Dragons, More Fall

Same. Loved the story, the missions, and I just wanted more.

[Calemyr]

If they can advance the party dynamic as far this time as they did last time...
Dead Man's Switch had a populated home base and a few plot characters you could hire in specific occasions.
Dragonfall had a core party, each with their own story, secrets, and part to play on certain missions.
If Hong Kong has an even stronger party that has even more to do with the plot, I'll be thrilled.

[Platinius]

If they can advance the party dynamic as far this time as they did last time...
Dead Man's Switch had a populated home base and a few plot characters you could hire in specific occasions.
Dragonfall had a core party, each with their own story, secrets, and part to play on certain missions.
If Hong Kong has an even stronger party that has even more to do with the plot, I'll be thrilled.

I concur, though I admit I did enjoy it that your friends stories were not conveniently mysteriously connected to the your destiny plot.

[T.G. Oskar]

I hope that one mechanic they re-use from Dragonfall Director's cut is for the customization of the NPC runner's. I really liked those custom skills and abilities for the crew. Being able to choose Shotguns or Sniper for Eiger, melee or pistols for Glory or whether to focus more on drones over decking for Blitz.

Umm...that is actually one of the selling points of the game?

All party NPCs will have two tracks, which focus on one specialty. Exactly how it'll work (whether you have to focus on one track or, as in DF:DC, you can choose between the two tracks) I dunno, but at least you can customize your characters as you wish. That said, it should be easy to determine how you'll specialize: summoning or conjuring for Gobbet, non-lethal or lethal for Wu, close combat or ranged combat for Racter's Koschei drone, awesome sword skills or Ghoul powers for Gaichu, and Matrix mastery or meatspace combat for Is0bel. Some are actual specializations, while others feel like meant to diversify the character.

[VexingFool]

Umm...that is actually one of the selling points of the game?
Cool, I'm glad they are continuing with that idea. I've basically not researched anything about Hong Kong and since I did not back it on Kickstarter this time I did not get any email's with game development updates.

I didn't back it this time because in my opinion Kickstarter should only be used to fund things that would not otherwise get a chance to see the light of day. The initial Kickstarter was a success and showed there was a market for this type of game. Dragonfall showed they could expand the mechanics and storyline and improve on the initial concept. But they know the numbers now, they know how much they can spend on development so in my opinion another Kickstarter was not needed. I backed the initial game and bought copies of Deadman's Switch and Dragonfall for my iPad and I am purchasing Hong Kong on day one. I just don't like that they thought another Kickstarter was needed. Cue Sally Strothers "Please, if you could just give another 50 dollars it would make a world of difference to a starving developer. And if you act now we will send you this chintzy piece of swag that will tell the whole world how much of a sucker you are."

Oops did not mean to go off on tangent. Really tired... Game just finished installing. Off to bed.

[factotum]

That's...kind of an odd way of looking at it, IMHO? To my mind, I'm *more* happy to back a Kickstarter from these guys for their next game, because (a) I get the game cheaper than retail and (b) they've shown they can deliver the goods on time and within budget. I wouldn't back a Kickstarter put up by, for example, Double Fine Productions because they've shown they *can't* stay on time and within budget.

[Cikomyr]

Hacking has been changed a lot. Now, you have to try and dodge security programs, or they will attack you. Kind of an agility/stealth game.

If they see you often enough, they summon ICE and block all accesses.

[VexingFool]

Hacking has been changed a lot. Now, you have to try and dodge security programs, or they will attack you. Kind of an agility/stealth game.

If they see you often enough, they summon ICE and block all accesses.
Interesting. So would you say that a PC decker is better or are the NPC/hireling deckers good enough? I know some people did not like Blitz as a decker but in several of the matrix runs he worked out better than the time I ran a PC decker. My PC decker was better against single targets and Blitz was awesome against large groups of ICE.

I only managed to boot the game up and get into character creation before going to bed. I like the changes to the Attribute/Skill screen. Is the starting Karma the same as the previous games? It seemed as though there were some minimum attributes this time. As a Human Body started at 4 and Charisma at 2 but I could not subtract any points from them. Do you get more control if you choose Hard Difficulty?


That's...kind of an odd way of looking at it, IMHO? To my mind, I'm *more* happy to back a Kickstarter from these guys for their next game, because (a) I get the game cheaper than retail and (b) they've shown they can deliver the goods on time and within budget. I wouldn't back a Kickstarter put up by, for example, Double Fine Productions because they've shown they *can't* stay on time and within budget.Yeah it may be a weird way of looking at it. <shrug> I guess I just think that Kickstarter should be used to show that non-mainstream ideas are viable rather than an alternate method of pre-ordering. I'm pretty much done doing the pre-order thing with the mainstream games as well, burned a couple times too many. As far as getting it cheaper via Kickstarter that has not really happened for me since I usually backed games in the $50+ donation range. But I wanted to show my support for the game so I did not mind that I spent a bit more on the game. Usually if you wait a few months after the games release they have a sale on Steam or GOG that sells the game for really cheap. GOG was selling a Hong Kong pre-order for 19.99(29.99 retail) up to the day before the game released.

I've had pretty good luck with the games I backed on Kickstarter so I'm not dissing it as a means of getting a project off the ground that might not otherwise see the light of day. But I put the Hong Kong Kickstarter in the same group as the Double Fine and Ken Levine Kickstarters, that's not something I'm going to invest in because it seems like a cash grab.

Backed games that delivered and were awesome: Wasteland 2, Shadowrun/Shadowrun:Dragonfall, Pillars of Eternity
Backed games that delivered and were OK: Banner Saga
Backed games that have not yet delivered: Star Citizen, Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption
Backed games that failed to deliver: Jagged Alliance: Flashback

[Cikomyr]

No idea, sadly. I only hacked once so far, and i was found out while trying to access data, but i wiped the floor with the ICE like in the good old days.

I think this whole "stealth" approach, while minor, is probably a way to speed up operations when you are rushed from things happening in meatspace. Its a bitch to pull stealth when everything is in realtime, but in a turn-based sequence? I could see it.

Fun fact: there is now a "speed me up" upgrade, for when you need to run a lot.

Edit: forgot to write what I wanted to talk about. The intro story so far is straight and effective. Long term objectives are established, roles and archetypes are put in place quickly and clearly.

I really liked the escape sequence. The game literally forces you to learn the cover mechanics.

[Calemyr]

So far, I'm rather impressed.

New things I've noticed:
* The game simply looks better. The character models are better, the portraits more diverse, the interface cleaner by far. Plus it has a human male portrait with a fedora. Flawless.
* Inclusion of both in-game and animated cut-scenes. The opening animation is voice acted, which really helps it feel more like a real game.
* One of your party members is your "brother" (you're both orphans taken in by the same guy). So far, he's been a pretty interesting guy.
* They added a secondary skill to Body dedicated to cyberware. Adding points into it gives you access to new grades of cyberware, better crit chances with cyberware weapons, and even bonus essence to let you equip more cyberware.
* Summoned spirits no longer use the gambling system. Now they just have a chance of disappearing (or at least that's what my summons have done thus far).

[huttj509]

So far, I'm rather impressed.

* Summoned spirits no longer use the gambling system. Now they just have a chance of disappearing (or at least that's what my summons have done thus far).

Spirits summoned from a location last 2 rounds (3 with upgrade). Spirits summoned from an item have the gambling system.


I'm running a straight up cybered combat monster and loving it. Troll with body and strength, with quickness as an afterthought. My cyber claws are fun.

[Lost Demiurge]

Only been playing for a few hours, but I'm very impressed. The meat of any shadowrun game is the story, and so far it's evocative, flavorful, and filled with the "Oh Crap!" moments you expect from Shadowrun. All with a HK action movie spin...

...That said, I just managed to resolve a run without getting violent at all. An entire RUN. Beautiful! I love having that option.

And the characters. Sweet Grob, the characters. All the party members I've found are at least as juicy as Dragonfall or better. Seriously, I'd play any of them in a campaign in a heartbeat. Especially Racter, I actually DID have a Rigger a lot like him, once. Probably one of the reasons I like the guy so much. And if he's done what I think he's done with Koschei, (Don't spoil it,) then I am going to be positively gleeful.

Hell, even the NPC's are well done, for the most part.

So yeah. Quality writing. Fun game. Much joy. Looking forward to playing more tonight!

[huttj509]

Only been playing for a few hours, but I'm very impressed. The meat of any shadowrun game is the story, and so far it's evocative, flavorful, and filled with the "Oh Crap!" moments you expect from Shadowrun. All with a HK action movie spin...

...That said, I just managed to resolve a run without getting violent at all. An entire RUN. Beautiful! I love having that option.

And the characters. Sweet Grob, the characters. All the party members I've found are at least as juicy as Dragonfall or better. Seriously, I'd play any of them in a campaign in a heartbeat. Especially Racter, I actually DID have a Rigger a lot like him, once. Probably one of the reasons I like the guy so much. And if he's done what I think he's done with Koschei, (Don't spoil it,) then I am going to be positively gleeful.

Hell, even the NPC's are well done, for the most part.

So yeah. Quality writing. Fun game. Much joy. Looking forward to playing more tonight!

I resolved a run that was gonna turn into "oh crud, fight" 4 distinct times, with NO combat. And got a new character out of it.

[Morty]

Tempting, mighty tempting. One thing I'd like to see is more non-violent or otherwise good solutions that don't rely on Charisma.

[Guancyto]

I remember in Dead Man's Switch, the Academic etiquette was good for getting you paid more on a single run, the Gang etiquette let you talk your way out of a single easy fight, and the Shadowrunner etiquette wasn't used at all.

In contrast, in Hong Kong, I have avoided fighting I think twice times now with Academic knowledge (one being knowledge of acoustics, which makes me happy) and I keep missing chances to salvage things with Gang or Shadowrunner on account of I don't have them.

Other possibilities are Intelligence and Decking, and I saw two for Strength, so smart and strong characters get to get in on the fun too.

[Cikomyr]

I will be perfectly honest with you guys..

The Runs are about 80% of my enjoyment of this game. They were the best thing about Dead Man's Switch. The overall plot may make the game more memorable, but my enjoyment comes from the Runs.

There is something just pure cool about going somewhere, doing the job, and get out. And then, no consequences.

Dont get me wrong, i am happy the main plot is there. But i wouldnt be sad if they doubled the number of Runs in DMS or Dragonfall.

[T.G. Oskar]

So far, so good, but there's a few things that piss me off.

The first is ridiculous, but I hate there's no more Very Hard difficulty. There's only Easy, Medium and Hard. Even when I piss off and scream at the computer by the difficulty, it's never really that hard (it does when you factor in the UGCs, which can be a bit more relentless: I.E. the Antumbra Saga for DF:DC, where the first few levels can be nightmarish for the wrong build).

As well, the Armor spell is now a Shaman spell, even though it still has the color of a Mage spell. Noticed that with Carter, who had a very nice set-up of spells. That's really gonna screw up my MysAd usual build. Strangely enough, the Heal Wounds spell is STILL a Mage spell, when you'd expect it to be Shamanistic in origin. Change was kinda arbitrary.

That's so far what I don't like, and I'm really more pissed at the second thing than at the first. The animation changes are really smooth and nice-looking: spell animations in particular are pretty nice.

Anyways, gonna delve a bit more into the Walled City with Magnus "Huoyan" Gutesson...which reminds me, it's really cool that your PC runner can have a first name, a last name AND a street name. Makes sense when your bro calls you by your name, after all.

[Morty]

I remember in Dead Man's Switch, the Academic etiquette was good for getting you paid more on a single run, the Gang etiquette let you talk your way out of a single easy fight, and the Shadowrunner etiquette wasn't used at all.

In contrast, in Hong Kong, I have avoided fighting I think twice times now with Academic knowledge (one being knowledge of acoustics, which makes me happy) and I keep missing chances to salvage things with Gang or Shadowrunner on account of I don't have them.

Other possibilities are Intelligence and Decking, and I saw two for Strength, so smart and strong characters get to get in on the fun too.

Yes, Etiquettes are already much more useful in Dragonfall. Although it's still uneven, and if you don't invest in Charisma, that one or two etiquettes of yours aren't going to come up more than once or twice. They're a decent idea, I suppose. Just narrow.

[Guancyto]

Yes, Etiquettes are already much more useful in Dragonfall. Although it's still uneven, and if you don't invest in Charisma, that one or two etiquettes of yours aren't going to come up more than once or twice. They're a decent idea, I suppose. Just narrow.
The thing I've really liked with Academic etiquette (which I sort of chose on a lark) is that everyone makes classical references to Japanese and Chinese mythology and literature and the Academic etiquette lets you know what they're talking about. I really like my character's conversations with the Red Samurai bonus character.

[Cespenar]

Strangely enough, the Heal Wounds spell is STILL a Mage spell, when you'd expect it to be Shamanistic in origin. Change was kinda arbitrary.

Since I think there are no mage NPCs, is Heal pretty much walled off unless you open up a Mage yourself? Or does Shaman have passable healing stuff as well?

[tonberrian]

There were two totems that granted AoE healing in Dragonfall (though I haven't checked them here). Also, I thought Gibbet ran enough spellcasting for Heal Wounds 1.

And really, medkits are pretty great for healing.

Also, people who mess up my runs should not ask for handouts.

[huttj509]

There were two totems that granted AoE healing in Dragonfall (though I haven't checked them here). Also, I thought Gibbet ran enough spellcasting for Heal Wounds 1.

And really, medkits are pretty great for healing.

Also, people who mess up my runs should not ask for handouts.

At least they gave me a keycard...to open a safe...I didn't know was there...because I hadn't recruited the Russian...and don't think I can go back to buff his drone...

[Brother Oni]

The thing I've really liked with Academic etiquette (which I sort of chose on a lark) is that everyone makes classical references to Japanese and Chinese mythology and literature and the Academic etiquette lets you know what they're talking about.

That's probably a cultural thing - anybody who regards themselves as civilised knows their cultural references, which in turn derives from history.

As an example, there's an insult to call someone 'Ah Dou (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Shan)' which indicates that you're an incompetent person despite your father being great which dates back to the Three Kingdoms. This is to say nothing of the widespread permeation of Sun Tzu's 36 Strategems ('Attack Zhao to save Wei' is probably the most famous).

This is even more apparent in a place like Hong Kong which is a head on collision between Eastern and Western cultures - for example there are a number of large apartment buildings with large holes in them, to give the spirit of the mountain behind the building free access to the sea in keeping with the principles of fung shui:

https://pepperedthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/img_4069.jpg
This makes the poisoned chi of the in game Kowloon Walled City a real thing in fung shui terms, let alone in the SR world where it's an actual magic system; only history problem I have is that the original Walled City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) was demolished back in 1993 (shortly after the release of SR 2nd Ed). I'm not sure whether getting into fung shui breaks board rules, so I won't go into it further.
Edit: Apparently they've recognised this fact in this edition of SR. I think I'll just shut up now. :smallredface:

Minor gripes I have thus far are mostly setting based:
They use the term qi rather than chi, despite specifically stating they're speaking Cantonese.
You get almost everywhere by the MTR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTR), which only serves the original fairly small Hong Kong area - most of Hong Kong these days is in the New Territories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Territories). One run takes you out to Tai Po though.

Edit: By the way, if you're not sure why the characters say random numbers, it's because the numbers are homonyms with other Cantonese words and are used as slang: link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6mQyXp2_kw).

[Dragonus45]

Just finished up what I guess is the prologue. I think Gutshot was an ******* is about to become a new meme for me.

[Morty]

Come to think of it, one of the reasons I like SR is that it's one of the too few RPGs with a sensible inventory. Does Hong Kong introduce any change here?

[Gamerlord]

Just finished the game. Ran a Cyber-Street Samurai (Managed to skip a surprising amount of combat despite mostly ignoring the social stats). really liked it for the most part, but noticed a bunch of bugs and one minor complaint.

A possible companion I killed kept showing up in my recruitment screen and despite only talking to the Russian guy once with no mention of joining my team he kept on appearing in my recruitment, the Security Etiquette was locked in one conversation despite the fact I had it, the left side of the equipment screen was constantly flickering during setup before missions, game froze up for a few seconds whenever I first booted it up, AI was healing itself after taking one point of bleed damage, people getting stuck in doorways, etc.

Not entirely sure how I felt about the new Matrix system (But at least they seem to have cut down on the combat.) The door hacking is fine as far as hacking mini-games goes, but trying to sneak around with mouse-based movement felt really awkward.


But really, besides that, it was a pretty fun ride. The party members were all interesting, I really dug the theme of the central plot, and the secondary missions were all pretty fantastic. Hopefully HBS will revisit the Shadowrun setting soon-ish.

[T.G. Oskar]

Since I think there are no mage NPCs, is Heal pretty much walled off unless you open up a Mage yourself? Or does Shaman have passable healing stuff as well?


There were two totems that granted AoE healing in Dragonfall (though I haven't checked them here). Also, I thought Gibbet ran enough spellcasting for Heal Wounds 1.

Can't specify it, but as the small hooded serial killer says (;P), Gobbet has enough Spellcasting to cast Mage spells (she has the Aim spell as well). She's the sort of "support shaman/mage" that Dietrich was in Dragonfall, except Gobbet has an actual firearm (rather than a spell attack and throwing weapons) and uses a terrain-based poison attack spell rather than Electro Core (aka, renamed Ball Lightning spell), but for the most part she has the same spell setup. You really can't do bad with Aim, Armor, Heal Wounds and Haste on a Mage/Shaman.

Another minor nitpick: do you really need Killing Hands to use Nerve Strike? Tried to use it on my melee-based character and I can't seem to target anyone, so the only thing I figure is that I need Killing Hands to use the power, much like on the tabletop. One of the few occasions where adhering to the core source is hindering, since Adepts tend to get force-fed into Unarmed combat.

[Brother Oni]

I'm not a big fan of the new Matrix running. The sneaking about bit is fine, it's the transitioning to a new area then getting ganked by all the ICE before I can make a move that's frustrating. Some more instruction on hacking a Blocker ICE would be more useful (matching the codes in the second half; how you don't need to complete all the number sequences, just as many to give you enough time to do the second half).

I've also encountered two game breaking bugs thus far, requiring a mission restart to fix:



On the Misdirection run, you sometimes don't get the keycard from the other runner group, thus you can't open the safe to complete the mission. The first time I triggered the alarm and with a full inventory; the second time, I managed to get up there quietly with a slot or two spare, which seemed to work.
Trying to transfer equipment when you have 8 people in the party also breaks the inventory GUI.

When capturing the plastic faced man in the parking garage, I can't secure the garage to finish the mission. I'm going to play around with the warp command and see if I can find the missing bad guy.
Edit: nope, definitely glitched. Going back through and rendering him unconscious before killing everybody else works though.

[AMX]

On the Misdirection run, you sometimes don't get the keycard from the other runner group, thus you can't open the safe to complete the mission. The first time I triggered the alarm and with a full inventory; the second time, I managed to get up there quietly with a slot or two spare, which seemed to work.
Trying to transfer equipment when you have 8 people in the party also breaks the inventory GUI.
Are you sure that's game-breaking?
I thought the safe was only necessary for Racter's side-mission, not the actual run

When capturing the plastic faced man in the parking garage, I can't secure the garage to finish the mission. I'm going to play around with the warp command and see if I can find the missing bad guy.
Edit: nope, definitely glitched. Going back through and rendering him unconscious before killing everybody else works though.

I ran into a variant of that.
I had to shoot the explosive barrel to end combat - looks like barrels are actually neutral units, and the game was checking for non-allied units, instead of hostile units.

[Seerow]

So... I played Shadowrun Returns, but skipped Dragonfall. On a whim I backed Hong Kong on kickstarter, so now have Hong Kong.

Should I go back and get Dragonfall before playing Hong Kong? Or are the two completely unrelated and I will be fine just diving straight into Hong Kong?

[Gamerlord]

So... I played Shadowrun Returns, but skipped Dragonfall. On a whim I backed Hong Kong on kickstarter, so now have Hong Kong.

Should I go back and get Dragonfall before playing Hong Kong? Or are the two completely unrelated and I will be fine just diving straight into Hong Kong?
You won't get a few minor references, but for the most part they are simply two completely separate stories in the Shadowrun universe.

[Cespenar]

So... I played Shadowrun Returns, but skipped Dragonfall. On a whim I backed Hong Kong on kickstarter, so now have Hong Kong.

Should I go back and get Dragonfall before playing Hong Kong? Or are the two completely unrelated and I will be fine just diving straight into Hong Kong?

They're unrelated, you're fine in that regard, but Dragonfall is a definite upgrade from the first game. Don't miss it if you can help it.

[Brother Oni]

Are you sure that's game-breaking?
I thought the safe was only necessary for Racter's side-mission, not the actual run


It's a yellow objective and the game wouldn't proceed onto the next bit (take the elevator down) which triggered straight after I opened the safe the second time round.

Then again, it might be a necessary objective only because Racter was in the party - if he wasn't then it might not show up in the first place. Checking that would have been a reload from a previous save job, which I haven't been as diligent with as I should have been.



I ran into a variant of that.
I had to shoot the explosive barrel to end combat - looks like barrels are actually neutral units, and the game was checking for non-allied units, instead of hostile units.

Huh, I'll bear that in mind. When in doubt, do more collateral damage. :smallbiggrin:

So I've completed the game now and that reloading cyberarm kinda breaks game balance with low capacity weapons; I picked up the Sandblaster shotgun which strips 1 armour off per hit (but only has a 2 magazine capacity) and with Haste and Wired Reflexes, I could strip 5 armour a turn off heavily armoured enemies, making them prime game for things like an AR's full auto ability.

Speaking of which, I might have gone a bit overboard with the RNG compensation on my street sam human character thus ended up hitting a hard stat cap - I had Quickness 10, Ranged Weapons 9, when I should have had Quickness 12 and Ranged Weapons 10; this is despite having Cyberware Affinity 6, which should have let me exceed my racial maximums.


They're unrelated, you're fine in that regard, but Dragonfall is a definite upgrade from the first game. Don't miss it if you can help it.

The Director's Cut of Dragonfall adds a number of improvements to the game system and extra missions, which really rounds out the other characters. I definitely recommend picking it up when it next goes on sale.

[druid91]

So far I'm enjoying being able to play a cybered up character. Before the cyberware system seemed kind of bare bones. With very little going for it.

To be entirely honest, so far Hong Kong FEELS more like shadowrun than any of the others. Shadowrun Returns felt bare bones, but it had that sort of gritty feel to it that says shadowrun to me. Dragonfall was mechanically better and felt more like an actual team of shadowrunners, but also was very firmly in the 'big damn hero's' camp that, while fun, doesn't exactly scream shadowrun.

Hong Kong has both the grittyness and the stronger writing/gameplay Along with a few upgrades.

[Seerow]

Got to dig into it today, really enjoying it thus far. SRR felt a little too linear for my tastes, and the lack of a persistent team annoyed me. Building a core team that I can interact with outside of runs is awesome. And having the ability to choose your own run start up very early is fantastic.

I just got to that first choice after officially becoming a shadowrunner, and went to do the Murder Mystery mission. I love how going out of my way to find all of the clues and side mission stuff added up to changing the outcome of the run, letting me recruit the Ghoul and basically get the entire Whompoa Elder Council tossed into prison or whatever justice gets served to them. I mean I guess it's possible the same thing would have happened either way, but somehow I doubt it would have played out that way if I'd attacked him, or if I'd failed to compile the evidence to sway the judge's opinion as to what happened. So even if it would have played out exactly the same, the game made me feel like the choices mattered, which is the most important part.

Also Strangler guy from the first run... apparently I managed to insult him. Not sure if that's something that always happens or a quirk of a dialogue choice or two, but is another one of those nice things that makes you feel like your choices matter (I have a habit of picking the snarky responses when available, so I totally believe it was something I said that triggered him being hostile)

[Guancyto]

You'd be surprised, Seerow!
It doesn't happen the same way either way, actually. If you fail to gather all the evidence the guy isn't convinced; if you side with the ghoul anyway, you will have to kill everyone and you will (afaik) not get paid for the run.
This leads into...
This is a GREAT bit of foreshadowing for the endgame, where you can get the best ending only if you've done all your homework - doing your homework incompletely lets you talk your way out of the fight but gets you a worse outcome than fighting. Probably.

The game is really enjoyable because there's sections that are entirely talking that don't feel boring, there are companion quests, multiple endings, your choices do have consequences, and oh! I never would have suspected that my MVPs would be the Decker and the Rigger, but dayum, those two can tear it up. I played a mage, and wound up mostly bringing riflebro, grenade deck sis and dronebro.

I finished it last night and I loved the finale. The final boss felt much more... final boss than Deadman's Switch's did, or even Dragonfall's.

[Cespenar]

A question for those who finished the game:

I forgot to actually return to the academician about the "fix the feng shui" sidequest in the Walled City, even though I did all the guy asked me to. So, does finishing that sidequest change a lot in the long run, or..?

[Brother Oni]

Also Strangler guy from the first run... apparently I managed to insult him. Not sure if that's something that always happens or a quirk of a dialogue choice or two, but is another one of those nice things that makes you feel like your choices matter (I have a habit of picking the snarky responses when available, so I totally believe it was something I said that triggered him being hostile)

Definitely picking the snarky option was what triggered it.
One of the things I like about the general dialogue for this game, is that if you don't give the older Chinese characters face (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_%28sociological_concept%29) that is their due (essentially respect but more complicated), they tend to become hostile (back talking Auntie will NOT go down well :smalltongue:).

Unsurprisingly, making an effort to assimilate culturally goes a long way in the SR Hong Kong as it does in the real one.


This is a GREAT bit of foreshadowing for the endgame, where you can get the best ending only if you've done all your homework - doing your homework incompletely lets you talk your way out of the fight but gets you a worse outcome than fighting. Probably.

I'd worked out there was a way to trap Qian Ya from Is0bel's story and did all the digging I could find; the only requirement I didn't do was to sleep 5 times to get all the dreams. :smallsigh:


I forgot to actually return to the academician about the "fix the feng shui" sidequest in the Walled City, even though I did all the guy asked me to. So, does finishing that sidequest change a lot in the long run, or..?


You miss out on 1 karma, but the sidequest foreshadows future plot elements and there are minor 'blink and you miss them' flavour changes that happen when you return back to the Walled City.

[Cespenar]

Cool. Another question then: given how decking changed, could one manage with lesser decking skills than before?

[thorgrim29]

Started it yesterday, I'm running a dwarf mage with a few points in Shotgun. I put quite a bit of points in Qi casting, hope it will pay off soon. So far the story is cool, very atmospheric, and I like the outsider's look at shadowrunning it gives (for Duncan, I decided my character has a bit more experience in that area)

[Brother Oni]

Cool. Another question then: given how decking changed, could one manage with lesser decking skills than before?

Possibly - I tend not to play deckers, but since Blitz was fine for Dragonfall, the HK party decker (avoiding spoilers) was more than sufficient.

Most of the skill in decking in this version is player based rather than character based; avoiding the sentry patterns (which is a little tricky with a mouse) and during the blocker ICE minigame, judging when is a good time to switch from the time gaining keypad memorisation to the figuring out the key section. Generally I earned about 60 seconds worth of time before moving onto part 2 in order to not rush the next section but sometimes I cleared it in less than 10-15 seconds, which is within the initial starting time.

That said, there are sections where good combat skills are essential, especially since if you trip a sentry if you have to kill it quickly before your trace gets too high, or when the system goes hot and they dump a load of hostile ICE and maybe an enemy decker, on top of your head. This is aside from the aforementioned area transition ganks that I've complained about before.

Izzy caps out at Decking 7 and ESP Control 6, if that helps at all.

[JohnTheSavage]

So far the story is cool, very atmospheric, and I like the outsider's look at shadowrunning it gives (for Duncan The Gun Show, I decided my character has a bit more experience in that area)

Fixed a typo there. On that note, am I the only one who loves Kindly Cheng? She's awesome.

[thorgrim29]

I like her so far, she's like a character out of a Clavell novel (pretty much my only exposure to HK before this game. I think I'll have to visit sometime before my mental image of the place is permanently skewed).

[Brother Oni]

Fixed a typo there. On that note, am I the only one who loves Kindly Cheng. She's awesome.

If she wasn't a less intimidating version of one of my aunts, I'd agree with you.


I like her so far, she's like a character out of a Clavell novel (pretty much my only exposure to HK before this game. I think I'll have to visit sometime before my mental image of the place is permanently skewed).

I suggest watching some HK movies - Kung Fu Hustle gives you an excellent example of this type of character and I'm fairly sure Auntie is based off the Landlady from the same film:

http://s2.dmcdn.net/Mh2eQ.jpg

If you think your mental image of HK could be skewed by this game, trying playing Sleeping Dogs. :smallbiggrin:

[Calemyr]

I suggest watching some HK movies - Kung Fu Hustle gives you an excellent example of this type of character and I'm fairly sure Auntie is based off the Landlady from the same film:

http://s2.dmcdn.net/Mh2eQ.jpg

Dang it, man, I just caught that movie again on Netflix this weekend, and I was trying really hard not to connect the two characters, now they are inextricably linked...Dang it.

So far, I'm loving Hong Kong. The characters are great, the missions are great, the upgrades are great, it's just a pretty darn incredible production all around. One thing I have to note, however, is that the game feels a bit like Shadowrun: Saints Row, in that some pity case dedged up from the sewers finds they actually like their new circumstances and thrives in the new environment to such a degree that everyone around them gets a bit unnerved. Granted, that's just the way I played the Black Sheep - there were plenty of other ways available - but so far the game has done a great job at making me feel like a proper mastermind in a way I haven't seen in a long, long time. My guy has taken a number of risks and sacrifices to construct a web of contacts and favors, to become a big shot in his own right. I honestly can't wait to get back home again to see if/when it all blows up in his face.

I love how the game feels. You missions can screw you over, sometimes without any mistakes on your part, but it rarely feels... well... petty about it. The very concept of a Shadowrun going smooth was alien to me before this game, but here you can sometimes actually accomplish it if you are clever, careful, and thorough. It makes the runs where things really hit the fan mean more - a little success really brings out the flavor of failure.

The one thing I do not like about Hong Kong is the new decking. Granted, it's a lot faster and much less boring than it used to be, but the firewall minigame is rather frustrating since the only firewalls I've found so far have been difficulties 7 and 9. Not the best introduction for a new system with no tutorial (that I could identify). Also, a fast paced game of cone dodging doesn't really work well with a by-default borderless full-screen. I normally love borderless full-screen, but when you're trying to navigate a decker and move the screen at the same time, the fact that the cursor can jump off onto the second half of a dual monitor setup can bit you in the rump at the worst times.

[Lea Plath]

So every time I play Shadowrun, I make a character who is acts very similar. Netspider was a decker who snarked and relied on wits more than her fairly decent shotgun skills. Omniturtle was a lovely rigger who joked playfully, helped his friends, turned enemies into friends and went for the diplomatic route rather than letting his drones shred everyone. Now I'm playing Undercutter, an adept who is trying to repent from her past misdeeds, and makes a point of knowing every angle after the last time she went in half-cocked and wound up in a jail for years and years. Oh yeah, she also got the name Undercutter cause she chopped someones legs off.

Anyway, I've just reached that third action point, so stuff is getting serious. I've made a point of trying to talk to everyone, learn their stories, I'm now really hoping Spider Shen will give me a mission to forge my own custom sword.

[Cikomyr]

I have to be remembered something. If I free APEX in Dragonfall, does the Flux State survives the Corporate Takeover?

[tonberrian]

I have to be remembered something. If I free APEX in Dragonfall, does the Flux State survives the Corporate Takeover?
There is no impact to playing Dragonfall in Hong Kong. If you're talking about Dragonfall's epilogue, I have no idea.

[Lost Demiurge]

I'd say no, APEX wouldn't make a huge difference. The Shadowrun Returns games follow the official canon, and canon has it that the F-state is no more, grand experiment that it was.

[Cyber Punk]

I've got it! I'm trying to finish Dragonfall first, though. I was at the last mission, but stopped because of GTA V.

[heronbpv]

I have to be remembered something. If I free APEX in Dragonfall, does the Flux State survives the Corporate Takeover?

Only if you give her control of the dragon, IIRC.

[Cikomyr]

Only if you give her control of the dragon, IIRC.

Ah! Since i actually did, that must explain why i remember reading about an epilogue of a surviving Flux State.

Man, was the wizard pissed about that XD

[heronbpv]

It turned the future pretty bleak, but hey! At least the Flux state is saved, right? Right?!? :smalleek:

I actually felt pretty bad about this ending. But I was curious and have already saved APEX, so why not?

Enjoying HK so far, as colourful as Dragonfall, and the mysterious nightmares are really an interesting plot.

[Cespenar]

I just got into one fight in total of two runs. Pretty awesome.

No, I'm being serious.

[Cikomyr]

I just got into one fight in total of two runs. Pretty awesome.

No, I'm being serious.

Me too.

But it was a pretty epic fight, all told.

I liked the Ares run.


Hey, did anyone sold any "metadata" to the kid? I dont know about you, but it sounds like the single stupidest thing you could possibly do to either yourself or your client (which would be a complete lack of professionalism)

[thorgrim29]

I'm two runs in (3 if you count the walled city excursion). I don't think the museum fights are avoidable, and I'm really glad I chose to fight for the soap opera mission (Accountant vampire queen FTW. I just hope letting her go and becoming her ally isn't going to come back and bite me in the neck later.

So far so good, but I made a few very suboptimal choices with my karma (turns out chi casting and hermetic magic share the same spellbook, and having all core stats at at least 3, 5 if possible is really helpful), is there a way to reset it or should I just restart while I'm still pretty early on?

[Brother Oni]

Hey, did anyone sold any "metadata" to the kid? I dont know about you, but it sounds like the single stupidest thing you could possibly do to either yourself or your client (which would be a complete lack of professionalism)

It comes back to bite him later, but you have your choice in how to deal with it.

In my opinion, it depends on what you share and there's no harm in something that's about to become public knowledge anyway (especially when it nets you 200 nuyen or a program in an already cash strapped game).



So far so good, but I made a few very suboptimal choices with my karma (turns out chi casting and hermetic magic share the same spellbook, and having all core stats at at least 3, 5 if possible is really helpful), is there a way to reset it or should I just restart while I'm still pretty early on?

You can either restart, or you can just give yourself more karma to fix your build via the console (CTRL + F1 or ALT + ~). I can't find a command to reset a character in game.

[Cikomyr]

In my opinion, it depends on what you share and there's no harm in something that's about to become public knowledge anyway (especially when it nets you 200 nuyen or a program in an already cash strapped game).


You make a good point. Is it me. Or cash is sparcer this game?

I want moar runs!!! I need moar runs!! My Decker/Sniper needs it!!

So far, my Laser Rifle/Autoreload arm proved to be a damn solid combination.

[Seerow]

You make a good point. Is it me. Or cash is sparcer this game?

I want moar runs!!! I need moar runs!! My Decker/Sniper needs it!!

So far, my Laser Rifle/Autoreload arm proved to be a damn solid combination.

I was really hoping the being cash strapped was a side effect of still being at the start of the game. I hate feeling perpetually poor and unable to afford upgrades I would really like.

Maybe I will abuse that console a little bit...

[Cespenar]

Heh. About money, I named my character "Million", and I'm spending every nuyen I have on her cybernetics. It's a blast.

[Cikomyr]

Heh. About money, I named my character "Million", and I'm spending every nuyen I have on her cybernetics. It's a blast.

Next run will be a uber-cybertized Orc for me.

[Morty]

I got the game. Now I can't decide between a physical adept and a mid-range specialist with shotguns and grenades.

[Cyber Punk]

The only thing stopping me from playing this game is because I'm about to enter Panacea in Dragonfall.

I'd go with the latter, but I'm not sure how it'd work in Hong Kong. I think I myself would go with a close-range mage: spells for ranged attacks and swords for physical attacks...

[Calemyr]

I got the game. Now I can't decide between a physical adept and a mid-range specialist with shotguns and grenades.

Shotguns and Grenades will require investment in strength and quickness, unless you're skipping the bonuses from Throwing Weapons. Physical Adept lets you get a cheap boost to unarmed attack and some other good passive abilities. Depending on how far you take the adept tree, you can either use Throwing Weapons in Strength or Spellcasting in Will for ranged power. Throwing weapons add bonuses to grenades, making them more accurate and cost less to use, so an adept with unarmed and throwing weapons would have a good range of options.

One option I've found I'm quite fond of is the mono-filliment whip. 14 damage, straight up. uses ranged combat for accuracy, has a good range and a number of 3 special skills (one of which hits adjacent targets). Best of all, uses melee rules, allowing the user to move forward and use the whip in the same round. Of course it does not improve with strength (no mass to put power into), but it does benefit from the Serpent Totem, adding a +1 to damage that way. Combine with a ranged weapon (I used pistols) and you're pretty solid.

If I were to restart my character, I'd probably have taken rifle instead of pistol, to give myself access to longer ranges (and potentially a laser rifle). In general, however, I've really been enjoying my build: Body+Cyberware, Quickness+Ranged Combat+Dodge+Pistols (Rifles would be better), Charisma+Spirit Summoning+Spirit Control+2 Conjuring for the first grade of Haste. Charisma is wonderfully useful in Hong Kong, with the best etiquette (in my experience) being Shadowrunner, Gang, and Academic, while Spirit Control (from environmentals, at least) have no chance of berserk - they just don't last that long.

[Morty]

I know how the mechanics work. I've played both types of character in previous SR campaigns. I just don't know which one I feel like playing again. I guess when I played the adept, it was without the Director's Cut, which changed things for them. So I could see how it works.

[Seerow]

I tried using the Gaichu in my last run, and honestly was not too impressed with with him. The close combat is a big liability, his armor doesn't seem as great as I would expect given his background, and his sword swings deal about as much damage as a typical gunshot... which is great except the guns tend to have way more flexibility. As far as I can tell, he's not an adept either so no fancy powers there. I think he's going to sit on the bench.

Also this was the second place I've found where I could use a decker, and am actively disliking the decking mini-game. The game's click-to-move controls do not lend themselves well to the kind of tight movement needed to evade enemy detection, which means I get seen by literally every patrolling icon on the screen, which means I inevitably trigger an alarm, and am forced into extended combat with dangerous IC. My first hacking mission I pulled through and got everything... this time I got the primary objective, but then Is0bel died before getting any paydata.

I did go ahead and console cheat in a bunch of karma (to raise base stats all to 5 for the extra options) and some money (to be able to afford stuff rather than getting one upgrade every other mission, which is what I was feeling like I was getting)... so lacking in pay data doesn't meaningfully hurt the game for me, but I still feel bad being unable to get it. Also when I hit my first firewall minigame thing, I was totally lost. I played simon says with the keypad, and maxed that out... and then had no idea what to do next when the stuff up top started flashing. Decking in general just feels much more frustrating than I remember it being in SRR, and I am not a fan.



Re: Character builds, my character's a cybered out dwarf street sammy with a focus on Rifles (yes I realize that dwarves in this game only get +will instead of +body or +strength, so make better adepts or mages). He carries an assault rifle and a sniper rifle, and with the bonus AP from haste courtesy of Gobbet he'll full auto someone with the assault rifle, swap out to the sniper, and do a 1AP shot either to finish off or hit someone else. It's pretty devastating, especially with the cyber arm that auto reloads ammunition for you.

Actually... are adept abilities/qi magic something that will work with cyber? I know in regular shadowrun each point of cyber reduces your magic by 1, does it work the same way here, so I can still have 1-2 points of Qi Magic? Or are they just completely incompatible?

[Calemyr]

I know how the mechanics work. I've played both types of character in previous SR campaigns. I just don't know which one I feel like playing again. I guess when I played the adept, it was without the Director's Cut, which changed things for them. So I could see how it works.

To some degree you're correct, but they did changes on some of the mechanics. They added cyberweapons: hand razors, cyberspurs, and the mono-filament whip. They also added a Cyberware skill under the body stat (grant up to +2 essence for cybering up, open access to higher tiers of cyberware, gain accuracy, moves, and armor penetration when using cyber weapons), and changed the spirit summoning mechanics. They're worthy considerations.

Hand razors, however, do not use unarmed attacks and do not benefit from Killing Hands. Razors and spurs use Close Combat + Cyber Affinity, while the whip uses Ranged Combat + Cyber Affinity.

[tonberrian]

Firewalls are tricky, and they really needed some tutorial, but basically the numpad sequence buys you time for the second part. You've got a bunch of codes to choose from, and the top part flashes bits of the correct one. Find the one that matches the clues the top one is flashing, and you get in. Choose the wrong one, and it wastes time.

The part I found most frustrating is that if you haven't gotten all the time from the numpad game, losing at the second part shoves you back into the choice between part 1 and part 2, rather than just automatically starting part 2 again.

[Cikomyr]

I had an Orc Physical adept with a modicum of cyber enhancement (speed).

The new cybernetic tree seems to give me extra essence, so i guess it wouldnt be too bad to compromise with a bit more cyberup?

[druid91]

I tried using the Gaichu in my last run, and honestly was not too impressed with with him. The close combat is a big liability, his armor doesn't seem as great as I would expect given his background, and his sword swings deal about as much damage as a typical gunshot... which is great except the guns tend to have way more flexibility. As far as I can tell, he's not an adept either so no fancy powers there. I think he's going to sit on the bench.

Which stance were you in on Gaichu? The stance he's in changes a lot. In Heaven stance I've seen him one shot more than one opponent.


Hey, did anyone sold any "metadata" to the kid? I dont know about you, but it sounds like the single stupidest thing you could possibly do to either yourself or your client (which would be a complete lack of professionalism)

You only really give him details that are going to become public soon enough. Though as is mentioned, it does come back to bite him.



One of the things I like about the general dialogue for this game, is that if you don't give the older Chinese characters face (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_%28sociological_concept%29) that is their due (essentially respect but more complicated), they tend to become hostile (back talking Auntie will NOT go down well :smalltongue:).

Unsurprisingly, making an effort to assimilate culturally goes a long way in the SR Hong Kong as it does in the real one.

This was actually something I only realized was happening once you mentioned it. I'd kinda wondered why Kindly Cheng seemed to suddenly trust MC so much. But then I thought about it, I had been respectful, picked up the 'auntie' thing from Gobbet and Is0bel, and just in general tried to keep her happy.

[Morty]

I ended up settling on a sword-wielding physical adept. Straightforward enough. Does the Nerve Strike spell work with weapons? I'm guessing not, but it doesn't specify.

[Jermell]

In Shadowrun Returns I just kinda fell into an elf pistol/sword/shaman character since I didn't really know what I was doing. In Dragonfall directors cut I refined that into pistol specialist and shaman. I'll probably do the same when I get to Hong Kong but I gotta get my hands on that whip. Does it require a big karma investment to use well?

[Cyber Punk]

So I just finished Dragonfall and ended up with the worst ending possible. I'm replaying it again to try and talk him down instead.

This means I should start thinking of a Hong Kong character. I used a lady ork for Dragonfall, so this time it'd be a guy elf, probably. I can't decide if it should be a cyberweapon rifle specialist or a mage adept. Can one use cyberweapons and still be a mage in this iteration?

My Dragonfall character is totally cybered up, while my DMS character avoided chrome like the plague.

[Calemyr]

In Shadowrun Returns I just kinda fell into an elf pistol/sword/shaman character since I didn't really know what I was doing. In Dragonfall directors cut I refined that into pistol specialist and shaman. I'll probably do the same when I get to Hong Kong but I gotta get my hands on that whip. Does it require a big karma investment to use well?

The only things you need are Cyber Affinity 4 and Body 4 (which is frankly never a bad idea to begin with), so a total of 19 karma to equip. It's available from the cyberdoc after the first inventory upgrade, after you finish 2-3 missions. It costs 1 Essence, but you gain +1 Essence from Cyber Affinity 3, so that balances out. It uses Ranged Combat for accuracy, and Cyber Affinity for critical chance. Since you'll need to fight with something before getting the whip, Ranged Combat can easily end up doing double duty for both weapons.

I'll be honest: since getting it, I've never used my pistol again. The whip is as effective or more than a pistol with no reload. About the same range (the whip lets you move and attack on the same AP), loads of bleed damage, a chance of AP damage, and 3 1-AP special moves. So pistol is kind of a waste. You're better off going for something either REALLY heavy hitting, like a sniper rifle, the laser rifle, or the minigun (which became available as soon as I hit 3 AP, though I certainly couldn't afford it, and a 5 Strength requirement hurts a fair bit). Or a some heavy explosive weapons, if you feel like stepping on the Decker's toes. (Yeah, the decker carries around a grenade launcher. Much more useful than Blitz.)

Another note: Hong Kong comes with a different collection of Shaman Totems, as well. Most of them do the same things as before - the Bull totem is the same as the Dragon Slayer - but the list also includes a number of passive totems as well. The Fish, for instance, gives a permanent 10% miss chance on attacks to the shaman, while the Serpent (my new favorite) adds a permanent +1 damage and +5% accuracy to all attacks. Others add things like +1 movement or +15 health. I really can't see a good reason not to spend the karma to get at least 4 Charisma and 3 Spirit Summoning.

[T.G. Oskar]

Actually... are adept abilities/qi magic something that will work with cyber? I know in regular shadowrun each point of cyber reduces your magic by 1, does it work the same way here, so I can still have 1-2 points of Qi Magic? Or are they just completely incompatible?

Loss of Magic from Essence mostly increases cooldown of spells/active Adept powers and reduces your spell "slots". You get the same benefit from Magic Resistance regardless of Essence, so that's that. Stride grants a passive and active bonus: the passive bonus is unaffected, but the active bonus cooldown is increased the lower your Essence (and thus, Magic) - it's also incompatible with the Hydraulic Jack cyberware. Mystic Armor (if you get that high) boosts Armor passively and actively, so there's that, but I believe it stacks with Dermal Plating. Pain Resistance (again, if you get that high) is the same as Stride.

As for actual attacks - Killing Hands doesn't stack with cyber, AFAIK, because Cybered weapons use different rules; Hand Razors count as unarmed but have their own damage, whereas the Spurs count as Close Combat and the MFW counts as a Ranged weapon. Mana Fist, Nerve Strike, Quick Strike and Lightning Strike, as well as both versions of Martial Defense, will have their cooldowns increased.

No idea about Qi Focus/Qi Onslaught, tho.


I ended up settling on a sword-wielding physical adept. Straightforward enough. Does the Nerve Strike spell work with weapons? I'm guessing not, but it doesn't specify.

All you need to activate Nerve Strike is to be close to the enemy. Nerve Strike, unlike a normal attack, doesn't allow you to move and attack, so more often than not you end up with no one to aim at. Move and attack, then use Nerve Strike afterwards. From what I've experienced (playing a MysAd), Nerve Strike can be used with weapons, though I had Killing Hands around just in case.

[Jermell]

The only things you need are Cyber Affinity 4 and Body 4 (which is frankly never a bad idea to begin with), so a total of 19 karma to equip. It's available from the cyberdoc after the first inventory upgrade, after you finish 2-3 missions. It costs 1 Essence, but you gain +1 Essence from Cyber Affinity 3, so that balances out. It uses Ranged Combat for accuracy, and Cyber Affinity for critical chance. Since you'll need to fight with something before getting the whip, Ranged Combat can easily end up doing double duty for both weapons.

I'll be honest: since getting it, I've never used my pistol again. The whip is as effective or more than a pistol with no reload. About the same range (the whip lets you move and attack on the same AP), loads of bleed damage, a chance of AP damage, and 3 1-AP special moves. So pistol is kind of a waste. You're better off going for something either REALLY heavy hitting, like a sniper rifle, the laser rifle, or the minigun (which became available as soon as I hit 3 AP, though I certainly couldn't afford it, and a 5 Strength requirement hurts a fair bit). Or a some heavy explosive weapons, if you feel like stepping on the Decker's toes. (Yeah, the decker carries around a grenade launcher. Much more useful than Blitz.)

Another note: Hong Kong comes with a different collection of Shaman Totems, as well. Most of them do the same things as before - the Bull totem is the same as the Dragon Slayer - but the list also includes a number of passive totems as well. The Fish, for instance, gives a permanent 10% miss chance on attacks to the shaman, while the Serpent (my new favorite) adds a permanent +1 damage and +5% accuracy to all attacks. Others add things like +1 movement or +15 health. I really can't see a good reason not to spend the karma to get at least 4 Charisma and 3 Spirit Summoning.

Well that was a gold mine of information. So laser rifle or sniper rifle it is then. Looks like my character upped his arsenal between games :smallcool:

[Brother Oni]

Firewalls are tricky, and they really needed some tutorial, but basically the numpad sequence buys you time for the second part. You've got a bunch of codes to choose from, and the top part flashes bits of the correct one. Find the one that matches the clues the top one is flashing, and you get in. Choose the wrong one, and it wastes time.

Further to this, it should be remembered that you don't need all the time from the numberpad sequence. Once you get the hang of second part, quitting the number pad part at about sequence 5 or 6 is usually enough time.


You only really give him details that are going to become public soon enough. Though as is mentioned, it does come back to bite him.

Some parts are still very sensitive though - letting him know what the real targets of the museum heist were is a definitely no-no. As far as I can tell, there's no repercussions for letting him know that.

[Cespenar]

Further to this, it should be remembered that you don't need all the time from the numberpad sequence. Once you get the hang of second part, quitting the number pad part at about sequence 5 or 6 is usually enough time.

What. You can pass the numberpad sequence at will?

Huh. Well, at least I'm only 4-5 jobs into the game. That saves time.


Which stance were you in on Gaichu? The stance he's in changes a lot. In Heaven stance I've seen him one shot more than one opponent.

How can you change his stance? Didn't see a button.

[Brother Oni]

What. You can pass the numberpad sequence at will?

Huh. Well, at least I'm only 4-5 jobs into the game. That saves time.

Yup, just press the Next button, which is adjacent to Start. If you're really good (or brave), you can bypass the numberpad sequence entirely (especially when it takes about 2 or 3 sequences to break even).


How can you change his stance? Didn't see a button.

Character button in the bottom right corner, same as for the other character options ( I want to say the 'Y' button, but let me check).

Edit: yup, Y, the same option that mages have for their spells. After that, pick whatever stance you want at the bottom of the screen. Metal causes more AP damage at the cost of damage but has better defence while Heaven causes more damage for greater damage taken. Bear in mind that these stances are chained hits (eg the second hit of Heaven stance does more damage), so judging when to change a stance can be of importance (shifting stance resets the counter back to the first hit).

[VexingFool]

Gaichu's coup de grace special ability is awesome if you have a reliable way of stunning people like Gun Show's bean bag shot or some shock gloves.

[Cespenar]

That's nice to learn, especially right before Gaichu's personal quest.

Doubly so for the decking tip too, though I have been (somehow) powering through the "simon says" parts even if meeting with some difficulty. It kinda helps if you empty your mind. :smalltongue:

[Brother Oni]

That's nice to learn, especially right before Gaichu's personal quest.

Doubly so for the decking tip too, though I have been (somehow) powering through the "simon says" parts even if meeting with some difficulty. It kinda helps if you empty your mind. :smalltongue:

You can do the 'Simon Says' part with your keyboard number pad and I find it helps if you put your fingers on the sequence as they show up.

Playing it through again and I'm definitely taking Gaichu on every mission if only for the hilarity. Taking him to the party had me in stitches and I would definitely watch 'Chop Chop Kitchen'. :smallbiggrin:

[Calemyr]

Well that was a gold mine of information. So laser rifle or sniper rifle it is then. Looks like my character upped his arsenal between games :smallcool:

Just a warning on the laser rifle, though: It's a mission item (found during a raid on an Ares lab), and to keep it you will have to screw over another Shadowrun team. So it's pretty much your call: get a unique and powerful weapon for your own use, or have another team indebted to you.

I'm playing a social networking type of character (anytime I have a chance to make a new ally, I take it, even if the ally is a bit dubious - it's clear early on that you're in the middle of something big, so my character assumes he'll want all the support he can get), so I sacrificed the laser to make allies. Of course, by the time I discovered I actually had a use for the weapon, the moment was long gone. Fortunately there are some good store bought rifles late in the game, so the lost opportunity isn't a that painful.

[Cyber Punk]

I'm playing a type of 'has nothing back home, wholeheartedly committed to being a runner' kind of person, so I guess the rifle is out... -sniffle-.

Unless, of course, the other team pisses me off, in which case, bye bye team!

[Cikomyr]

I would have kept the other team as allies if they hadnt proven to be gun-ho "charge, shoot and grab" bunch. Friendly enough, but hardly professional.

The Vampire Queen was more of my kind of ally.

[thorgrim29]

Where/how do I recruit RaiGaichu?

[Cikomyr]

Where/how do I recruit RaiGaichu?

The serial killer mission.

[thorgrim29]

Ok, I'll take that one next then

[Brother Oni]

I would have kept the other team as allies if they hadnt proven to be gun-ho "charge, shoot and grab" bunch. Friendly enough, but hardly professional.

Funnily enough, if you go loud earlier, they berate you for screwing up their previously quiet mission when you meet them.

[tonberrian]

I would have kept the other team as allies if they hadnt proven to be gun-ho "charge, shoot and grab" bunch. Friendly enough, but hardly professional.

The Vampire Queen was more of my kind of ally.

Yeah, same. I've been playing a runner who's got a bit of sass to her, but gives Auntie whatever she wants, because Antie saved her life. But screw up her run, and she is not going to do you any favors. Also, after prison, she doesn't take people's crap when she's serious. The Plastic-Faced Man found that out the hard way.

[Cikomyr]

Funnily enough, if you go loud earlier, they berate you for screwing up their previously quiet mission when you meet them.

Hahahaha

Thats a fantastic Schroedinger's Plot if i ever saw one.

By far the most pathetic team is the one who ambushes you near the metro

[Cyber Punk]

Oh, the Plastic-Faced man is going to find out that in a painful manner...

So I just convinced him to take revenge on the megacorps that stole his plans. I wonder what effect that would have...

[Cespenar]

By far the most pathetic team is the one who ambushes you near the metro

Guy: I'm tough.
You: Ok, but Knight-Errant.
Guy: Oh.

Victory! :smalltongue:

[Seerow]

Oh, the Plastic-Faced man is going to find out that in a painful manner...

So I just convinced him to take revenge on the megacorps that stole his plans. I wonder what effect that would have...

I did the same thing... interestingly I haven't seen him at all since.

[thorgrim29]

Anyone know how to get the passcode for the safe and 100% disruption in the qi disruption mission?

[T.G. Oskar]

Anyone know how to get the passcode for the safe and 100% disruption in the qi disruption mission?

Don't remember the combination for the safe, but you can reach 100% Qi disruption by screwing with everything inside the offices (the wall panels, the mirror, the flames, the water pool, etc.) That should give you around 50% disruption. The other 50% is achieved by going to the Temple and doing four specific things: first, fight with the spirits, which should give you some disruption points by the shift in Qi; then, burn the bushes at the left, then go to the upper right corner and dabble with another point before desecrating the statue. By the moment you're about to desecrate the statue, you should get near 85% Qi disruption: the temple has the biggest concentrations of positive Qi in the mission, to be honest. Busting up the power generator also works, IIRC.

That said: you only get 1 Karma from doing so. Every point of Karma helps, and it's early enough, but it's kind of a small gift for essentially ruining the day for Wuxing.

[tonberrian]

Anyone know how to get the passcode for the safe and 100% disruption in the qi disruption mission?

There's a painting in the room, that's the hint.

The painting is The Lady of Shalott by John William Waterhouse, which is based on a scene from Alfred, Lord Tennyson's poem of the same name. The safe opened for me with Tennyson, though I wonder if Waterhouse would work as well.

[thorgrim29]

Not the same mission, the one you're talking about is in the museum run

[Cikomyr]

There's a painting in the room, that's the hint.

The painting is The Lady of Shalott by John William Waterhouse, which is based on a scene from Alfred, Lord Tennyson's poem of the same name. The safe opened for me with Tennyson, though I wonder if Waterhouse would work as well.

****, I would never, ever haved guessed that one -_-

[tonberrian]

Not the same mission, the one you're talking about is in the museum run

Oh, right. Hrmm.

I think you use the server room code for that one, too.

[thorgrim29]

Too late anyway. I did find the water pipe for the full qi disruption though

[Cespenar]

I really like how you can use your team for most of the options with stat/skill requirements. In the earlier games the usage wasn't this comprehensive, if I recall correctly.

[T.G. Oskar]

There's a painting in the room, that's the hint.

The painting is The Lady of Shalott by John William Waterhouse, which is based on a scene from Alfred, Lord Tennyson's poem of the same name. The safe opened for me with Tennyson, though I wonder if Waterhouse would work as well.

The only answer that works is "Tennyson" (regardless of caps). Trust me, after doing some legwork, the first answer I attempted was Waterhouse. Then, I realized the author of the poem (which is most likely to be popular than the painting) was the only other possible answer.

Cool to grant rewards when you delve outside the game itself, no?

[Calemyr]

What was the reward?

[VexingFool]

I really like how you can use your team for most of the options with stat/skill requirements. In the earlier games the usage wasn't this comprehensive, if I recall correctly.
Yeah they are pretty good with allowing the companions to hack/assense/strength check stuff for you. The only one that stands out in my mind of them not allowing the team to help is in the Wuxing Geomantic Sabotage mission. There is a nice pistol that requires a high Pistol skill or a high Intelligence to get. From what I've read the DC scales with your Karma total, so if you want it you may want to have some unspent Karma and buy your skill high enough.

Has anyone managed to not have Izz kill the guy in the elevator? If so what do you say to her. Anyways that whole mission is a clusterflop which shows you why there is no way she should be in charge of the team.

I picked up the Emperor's Sword in the museum mission but it won't allow me to sell it. Is there any other use for it or should I just give it to Gaichu to use every mission. I was kind of hoping the melee vendor would have an option to enchant/awaken it or something.

Playing through my second run through with a cybered elf with Laser rifle and monofilament whip and it is really strong.

[Gamerlord]

Yeah they are pretty good with allowing the companions to hack/assense/strength check stuff for you. The only one that stands out in my mind of them not allowing the team to help is in the Wuxing Geomantic Sabotage mission. There is a nice pistol that requires a high Pistol skill or a high Intelligence to get. From what I've read the DC scales with your Karma total, so if you want it you may want to have some unspent Karma and buy your skill high enough.

Has anyone managed to not have Izz kill the guy in the elevator? If so what do you say to her. Anyways that whole mission is a clusterflop which shows you why there is no way she should be in charge of the team.

I picked up the Emperor's Sword in the museum mission but it won't allow me to sell it. Is there any other use for it or should I just give it to Gaichu to use every mission. I was kind of hoping the melee vendor would have an option to enchant/awaken it or something.

Playing through my second run through with a cybered elf with Laser rifle and monofilament whip and it is really strong.
Admittedly, my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I recall saying something about him making the best of a bad situation, that he could not have known the consequences, and we did not have much time so she should only kill him if she wanted the mission to turn into a bloodbath.

[Cespenar]

If you scare him by saying you're with Auntie, he mellows out pretty quick. My first attempt did end in a bloodbath as well, though.

[AMX]

Admittedly, my memory is pretty fuzzy, but I recall saying something about him making the best of a bad situation, that he could not have known the consequences, and we did not have much time so she should only kill him if she wanted the mission to turn into a bloodbath.

First time round, I'm not entirely sure which options I used, but it involved the "I've been hired to kill you but I decided not to do it" option.
I got through that one without murderizing anybody.

Second playthrough, I used the Biotech option.
That also worked, but I screwed up the drunken troll encounter.

[VexingFool]

Hmmm... Thanks guys. At least I know its possible now. I've never had a Biotech skill high enough for that option and I'm always hesitant to name drop the Triads. Just seems like they would not be happy with a foreign contractor using their clout, especially on a mission not sanctioned by them.

[Cespenar]

Hmmm... Thanks guys. At least I know its possible now. I've never had a Biotech skill high enough for that option and I'm always hesitant to name drop the Triads. Just seems like they would not be happy with a foreign contractor using their clout, especially on a mission not sanctioned by them.

I thought too about the dropped name coming to bite me back later, but then I went: it was a little enough target to not worry about neither retaliation nor any loss of face.

[Brother Oni]

Hmmm... Thanks guys. At least I know its possible now. I've never had a Biotech skill high enough for that option and I'm always hesitant to name drop the Triads. Just seems like they would not be happy with a foreign contractor using their clout, especially on a mission not sanctioned by them.

Except that you're not a foreign contractor - Auntie effectively owns you until you've repaid the favour of her burning your SIN. For all intents and purposes, you're Yellow Lotus Triad which comes with its perks and problems.

While I agree that you're supposed to be a deniable asset, it doesn't mesh well with Auntie's reaction to the loss of Nightjar and the retaliation she wants on Josephine Tsang.

I would think you would have problems if you started taking your own jobs and getting paid without Auntie taking her finder's fee and profit cuts (considering the pittance of money you get for some fairly hairy runs like taking on Ares Asia, it's a fairly substantial amount she skims off) and since Izzy's job didn't pay, there's nothing for her to skim off, so a mildly reproving word is about all the censure you get (especially since the run basically goes well - if it didn't then you can guess what happens).

[Cyber Punk]

In my playthrough, I'm a rifle-using mage elf with high charisma. The only reason I'm cybered-up is so I can use smartlink weapons, and for the monofilament whip. It is awesome.

I let 'im Ma keep his vampire, and was very reluctant to tell Law anything. Of course, I still told my employer about the vampire lady, even though I told her I didn't give a darn who Neville spent his time with.

I successfully resisted the urge to eat some ramen/human meat in a prior run, but this time I drank the bloodwine. Thankfully Duncan was there to get rid of any DNA evidence... I'm liking this game! :smallsmile:

In my next playthrough, I'll make like Glory and explore all the chrome there is, with one or two weapon proficiencies.

[JohnTheSavage]

I let 'im Ma keep his vampire, and was very reluctant to tell Law anything. Of course, I still told my employer about the vampire lady, even though I told her I didn't give a darn who Neville spent his time with.

I successfully resisted the urge to eat some ramen/human meat in a prior run, but this time I drank the bloodwine. Thankfully Duncan was there to get rid of any DNA evidence... I'm liking this game! :smallsmile:


What is it with you and bloodwine? :smallwink:

[Cyber Punk]

Hehe, hi John. In this case, my runner found it gross.

[Seerow]

Over the last couple days I've burned through most of the game, so thoughts on a lot of stuff going on below. Broken into different spoilers for people at different points in the game.


Yeah I fell for it and took a sip of the blood wine as well. What is up with this game and trying to trick you into cannibalism? Seriously I can think of two times where I was given an option to eat anything, both times wound up being human flesh/blood. Like do the writers just get off on that? I just don't get it.

As for what to do with the Vampire, I felt sorry for her after she told her story about being an accountant who got infected and just decided to improvise from there. So I let her stay with Neville, which did not please the Johnson at all. I did get her to have Neville fire the one actress, which got a neat little scene with Neville calling up the Johnson and talking about how the stars don't matter, he can just make more of them.

Incidentally I never got the Mission Complete on it. Even after finishing the mission, my mission objectives log continues to tell me to present my evidence to the Johnson, but when I talk to him he just mutters about being busy and doesn't let me say anything. Guess I bugged it out.

I actually really liked the Smash and Grab style for this one. Running around stealing everything of high value in sight was fun. Though I was surprised at how low value the artifacts were. Like the most expensive was around 2k? I know money values in the game are low for game balance reasons, but this is a case of expensive artifacts that the player won't get to keep anyway. It would have been fine by me for their value to add up to 100k-1mil.

The mummies came kind of out of left field though and I never found any sort of explanation for their presence beyond it being an ancient tomb.

I totally killed the one at the end that tries to talk to you, I've seen enough Fantasy/Horror to know that letting an evil spirit out of its tomb is a bad idea. The sword you get for doing so is kind of lame though.

I actually made it through the Elevator without Izzy killing the dude (pretty sure I name dropped the Yellow Lotus there to do so), but then when she bumped into security I got to the point where Izzy mentioned a schedule, and to avoid getting into a fight you need an int5+ to say "It's the catering schedule" to avoid suspicion. Since I didn't have that, it was time to get loud.

Incidentally this was the mission that convinced me it was worthwhile to hack in enough karma for 5+ stat in everything. Because seriously, that was just dumb.

Not related to the missions: I've been talking to everyone between missions. Most notably I have been enjoying the family dynamics of the Troll family over at Club 88. But ever since I got the option to go after the Plastic Faced Man, that story has stopped progressing entirely. Is there ever some sort of satisfying conclusion to that? Or is that as far as it goes.
I've gotten to the point where the Dad is talking about either killing himself or running off to sea. the Mom has admitted to me that Callum is the byproduct of an affair. Callum has met his real dad and been invited to a Company Event.... which incidentally the Mom had been invited to years before and once there was hunted for sport. Meanwhile the other brother believes Dad was a Pirate no matter what anyone says to him, and wants to follow in his footsteps. I've been telling all of them not to do anything rash and try to stick it out... but now it's just been stuck in the same place for the last 3-4 missions.

Like I expect some sort of resolution here where the family all comes together or explodes entirely, but I'm starting to wonder if the information I've gotten is all I'm going to get now. Is there a new set of dialogue that opens up as you beat the endgame? Or is it all wrapped up at this point? I've currently just finished dealing with the Plastic-Faced Man and am about to start what I presume is the final run

I decided to hit him at his mistress's apartment, figuring it'd be low security, and hoping I could use her as leverage to make him talk. I was really disappointed there was no way to get out of there without killing the mistress, either by capturing her or just ignoring her. I couldn't talk to her, and went out of my way hitting her with CC abilities and leaving her standing until all of the security was dead and the plastic faced man was unconscious. Still wouldn't let me go until she was dead. On the other hand I found it kind of hilarious to have a fem-troll in lingerie running around beating on my party while they were preoccupied with real threats.

I wound up letting the Plastic Faced Man live, he made himself useful (gave all we asked for and then some), and didn't seem to have done much personally other than being the most visible face of the operation. I do wonder how much of his memory gets wiped though. Is it everything, or just everything related to work? Because I'm just imagining him going back to his Mistress's apartment, finding her dead, and connecting the dots with the runners who had been holding him when he woke up and this whole affair coming back to bite me in the ass.

[druid91]

For future reference. Duncan grants a way to remove hostiles non-lethally. He has an ability called subdue, Forget if it's in the cyber menu or the fists. But basically he takes someone who's AP'd out and zip ties their hands together and forces them to the ground.

[Morty]

Is one of the two magical katanas the monk sells worth buying if you have the Emperor's Sword? Their special abilities look fairly tempting.

[Seerow]

Just finished the campaign.

Glad to say that the Troll Family thing does get a wrap up, after you return to Heioi once the last mission is done. Though the dialogue for the father kind of bugged out, so after I saw the intended dialogue, I talked to him again and saw the dialogue that would play if I had gone the other route.

When it came to dealing with the Yama King, what did everyone else do?

I just killed her, but I'm curious where the other options lead. Someone mentioned way earlier in the thread that if you do your homework you can get ahead... but I didn't really notice anything that played off of either the optional runs I did, Izzy's memories, or Crafty's research or anything, so I was left kind of disappointed since it seemed like most of that wound up being just useless.

Are there alternate endings that take advantage of that? I tried striking a deal figuring I could double cross her like the kid in the story, but Izzy got really anxious when I mentioned being willing to talk at all, and the offer I was given was "Walk away and get great luck for the next 14 years", I didn't see any way to really turn that around, so went on with attacking.

Speaking of: All 3 of the fights against her were surprisingly easy. I mean, fights against security in the run against Tsang seemed tougher in general. The third fight she went down to 2 full-autos from my main character, with 6 others standing around going "oh, huh. Why'd we show up again?". But I think that one was supposed to be easier. But even the first two were pretty easy. I was expecting a really tough fight from the second one where we stepped into her realm... but yeah, easy.

Oh last thing, at the end Auntie asked if we secured the fortune machine for her. Is that a thing that is actually possible to do? Or is it just something for her to get disappointed about needlessly.

[Lea Plath]

I actually made it through the Elevator without Izzy killing the dude (pretty sure I name dropped the Yellow Lotus there to do so), but then when she bumped into security I got to the point where Izzy mentioned a schedule, and to avoid getting into a fight you need an int5+ to say "It's the catering schedule" to avoid suspicion. Since I didn't have that, it was time to get loud.

Incidentally this was the mission that convinced me it was worthwhile to hack in enough karma for 5+ stat in everything. Because seriously, that was just dumb.

I actually didn't have that problem with no Int. I actually had the most hilarious scene in the game where I convinced 2 people that we were inspectors, while talking about something else simultaneously

[huttj509]

For future reference. Duncan grants a way to remove hostiles non-lethally. He has an ability called subdue, Forget if it's in the cyber menu or the fists. But basically he takes someone who's AP'd out and zip ties their hands together and forces them to the ground.

I loved that, especially since my cyber-monster has a 2 ap damage attack.

Hmmm, that guy could be annoying. *whap* Ok Duncan. *zip*

[Cyber Punk]

Though the dialogue for the father kind of bugged out, so after I saw the intended dialogue, I talked to him again and saw the dialogue that would play if I had gone the other route.

That should be in spoiler tags.It was a Schrödinger's Cat situation. I didn't know if Duncan had false hope or not concerning Raymond. Now I know for sure that he's alive.

Fortunately, I'm not the type of person to enjoy a work less because of spoilers. In fact, most times I actively seek out the ending, then play to discover how the ending was reached. Unfortunately, not everyone is the same, so this is for their benefit.

[Seerow]

That should be in spoiler tags.It was a Schrödinger's Cat situation. I didn't know if Duncan had false hope or not concerning Raymond. Now I know for sure that he's alive.

Fortunately, I'm not the type of person to enjoy a work less because of spoilers. In fact, most times I actively seek out the ending, then play to discover how the ending was reached. Unfortunately, not everyone is the same, so this is for their benefit.

Huh? I'm talking about Troll Dad's dialogue. No comment on Raymond one way or the other.

[Brother Oni]

When it came to dealing with the Yama King, what did everyone else do?

I just killed her, but I'm curious where the other options lead. Someone mentioned way earlier in the thread that if you do your homework you can get ahead... but I didn't really notice anything that played off of either the optional runs I did, Izzy's memories, or Crafty's research or anything, so I was left kind of disappointed since it seemed like most of that wound up being just useless.



Getting through that fight without shooting has some fairly stringent conditions:


Must have heard Izzy's story about the boy who fooled the Nameless King
Must have read both of Crafty's emails about the Yama Kings
Must have slept at least 5 times (until you get the nightmare about losing your teeth I believe)
Remember what you said to Duncan when reminiscing about a time when you defused an argument between your younger selves and Raymond


In particular, Izzy's story raises the possibility that you can trap a Yama King by its own laws plus the fact that once a deal has been struck, it must keep its end of the bargain. The middle two options are info gathering for that plan and the last is not letting Duncan blow your cover when you're apparently selling out the team and the whole Walled City for 14 years of good karma.

You start the plan by taking her offer and following it through; I nearly got it the first time, I just hadn't slept enough times to get all the nightmares I needed, so I gave up on it and wiped her out in a turn. :smallsigh:

[Seerow]

Getting through that fight without shooting has some fairly stringent conditions:


Must have heard Izzy's story about the boy who fooled the Nameless King
Must have read both of Crafty's emails about the Yama Kings
Must have slept at least 5 times (until you get the nightmare about losing your teeth I believe)
Remember what you said to Duncan when reminiscing about a time when you defused an argument between your younger selves and Raymond


In particular, Izzy's story raises the possibility that you can trap a Yama King by its own laws plus the fact that once a deal has been struck, it must keep its end of the bargain. The middle two options are info gathering for that plan and the last is not letting Duncan blow your cover when you're apparently selling out the team and the whole Walled City for 14 years of good karma.

You start the plan by taking her offer and following it through; I nearly got it the first time, I just hadn't slept enough times to get all the nightmares I needed, so I gave up on it and wiped her out in a turn. :smallsigh:


I apparently had everything I needed, I just chickened out and attacked instead of following through on the counter offer.

I said I had a counter, and the option offered was "You walk back through your portal and I let you live"... I didn't like the idea of it staying alive, and wanted to kill it. Come to find out even killing it you still leave it mostly alive, and lose Raymond as part of the bargain.

Unfortunately I did not make a backup save before going into the final mission, so I am pretty sure to go through and get the 'good' ending I would have to go through the game again while getting everything possible again. I may do that some day, but not anytime soon. Going through and doing+reading everything dragged the play time out to a solid 30 or so hours it felt like (not sure if there's a /played timer anywhere I can check to be sure).

Though if I do play again, I am definitely doing either a Mage, Decker, or Rigger. By going Street Sammy, I got to be ridiculously OP combat-wise, but I felt basically forced to always have Izzy/Ractor/Gobbet as my team. Izzy and Ractor both were required to explore extra areas, and Gobbet occasionally came in useful for that purpose but also
was a great buff bot, and I hated the idea of not having Haste+Aim+Spirits available. By having my character cover one of those roles I can sit the associated character out and bring in Duncan/Gaichu more often.

[AMX]

Unfortunately I did not make a backup save before going into the final mission, so I am pretty sure to go through and get the 'good' ending I would have to go through the game again while getting everything possible again. I may do that some day, but not anytime soon. Going through and doing+reading everything dragged the play time out to a solid 30 or so hours it felt like (not sure if there's a /played timer anywhere I can check to be sure).

That's what the "Rewind" option in the load game menu is for - the save game actually keeps the first autosave from each level, and you can simply "rewind" the game to any of these points.
Beware: "Rewind" wipes out all progress beyond the autosave you rewind to, "Rewind & Copy" copies the save file into a new slot, and rewinds that.

Regarding your play time - if you've only played through the game once, you can just check your Steam library to see how much time you've spent in the game.

[Seerow]

That's what the "Rewind" option in the load game menu is for - the save game actually keeps the first autosave from each level, and you can simply "rewind" the game to any of these points.
Beware: "Rewind" wipes out all progress beyond the autosave you rewind to, "Rewind & Copy" copies the save file into a new slot, and rewinds that.

Regarding your play time - if you've only played through the game once, you can just check your Steam library to see how much time you've spent in the game.

Good call. Just checked, apparently I've played 28 hours, so my guess of 30 was just about right.

I hadn't even noticed a rewind option. I'll look for it.

[Morty]

Is there a way to actually sneak past the guards at the beginning of the mission, or do I need to take them all on?

[Gamerlord]

Is there a way to actually sneak past the guards at the beginning of the mission, or do I need to take them all on?
I took them out, but from my understanding you can use the ambush mechanic without attacking anyone to sneak past them in turn-based (That, or somehow get your companions to not screw up in real-time.)

[Cespenar]

By the way, the Hand Razors are kinda OP. They stack AP damage on top of normal damage, and you can almost juggle two guys and keep them both infinitely stunned or something. And Gaichu is just gravy on top, one shotting the stunned and Heaven style-ing the rest. I almost wonder if I even need the full team sometimes.

[Cikomyr]

I was thinking for my next runs to have Cybered Orc, Duncan and Gaichu combo.

With Izo.

Basically, ultramelee AP damage, combined with execution or Zip-bagging

[Cyber Punk]

So, after spending the weekend catching up on Dying Light, I'm back to play the game.

Got the laser and screwed over the team, then murdered the third team of runners, the ones that ambush you in the metro. They went down in less than three rounds.

So, I'm about to do Izz's mission. Who do I carry for maximum hilarity? I'm thinking Izz, Gobbet and one other person.

[druid91]

I took Racter, was pretty fun. But you only get you, Izz, and one other. Not a full team.

[tonberrian]

I bring Duncan to most everything, because Duncan's a badass.

[druid91]

I kinda want to bring Gaichu, just to see what happens.

[Cyber Punk]

Let's make a deal, then. I'll take Gobbet instead of Gaichu and tell you the juicy details. You (druid91 and maybe others) take Gaichu and tell me what happens.

I loved Gobbet's comment about their team being *awesome* during the Misdirection run...

Also, it occurs to me that the updates have given me greater reason to be an adept, something I'll do in my next playthrough.

[Brother Oni]

I kinda want to bring Gaichu, just to see what happens.

Bringing Gaichu to the Neville Ma run is fun.


Guard: OMG! GHOUL!
MC: Dude, what no, he's an actor in make up for that new show.
Guard: Whoa, that's really good make up.
Gaichu: Err, yeah. I have to spend hours in makeup and everything.
Guard: What show is that?
MC: [Has a choice from time travelling cop show, shadow runner show and cannibal Iron Chef]. Chop Chop Kitchen, a show where a master gourmet chef becomes a ghoul and has to both compete with his rival chefs to keep his restaurant afloat, hide his condition and brutally murder people when they find out they find out.
Gaichu: But only bad people who can't be persuaded to keep my secret. I'm trying to redeem myself.
Guard: Sweet, I'd watch that. Go on through.

There's also a bit of insult trading between Gaichu and the vampire along the lines of 'carrion eater' and 'bloodsucking leech'. :smallbiggrin:

[Cespenar]

Gaichu, Gobbet, and Racter for the max fun team.

[Cyber Punk]

I took Gobbet. She seemed more concerned with food at the Con.

I let them both resolve their friendship, and we got out of there without fighting the cops. Let Izz scan the other guy's decker, though I was tempted to tell her to steal it at gunpoint.

I loved the area where you had to be careful in choosing conversation options, since you were essentially giving Izz instructions while trying to talk to the guy in front of you.

I haven't spoken to Izz post-run yet, still making my rounds around Heoi.

[druid91]

Bringing Gaichu to the Neville Ma run is fun.


Guard: OMG! GHOUL!
MC: Dude, what no, he's an actor in make up for that new show.
Guard: Whoa, that's really good make up.
Gaichu: Err, yeah. I have to spend hours in makeup and everything.
Guard: What show is that?
MC: [Has a choice from time travelling cop show, shadow runner show and cannibal Iron Chef]. Chop Chop Kitchen, a show where a master gourmet chef becomes a ghoul and has to both compete with his rival chefs to keep his restaurant afloat, hide his condition and brutally murder people when they find out they find out.
Gaichu: But only bad people who can't be persuaded to keep my secret. I'm trying to redeem myself.
Guard: Sweet, I'd watch that. Go on through.

There's also a bit of insult trading between Gaichu and the vampire along the lines of 'carrion eater' and 'bloodsucking leech'. :smallbiggrin:


I took him and Racter on the Ares Asia run.

Cue the secretary freaking out about ghoul, and Racter explaining that gaichu isn't REALLY a ghoul, he's just a ghoul's corpse rigged up as a biological drone. And then technobabbling the secretary into letting us through.

[Seerow]

Man, sounds like all sorts of fun is to be had with dragging Gaichu around.

[Ankheg]

Is there a way to actually sneak past the guards at the beginning of the mission, or do I need to take them all on?

Yes, there is. Just look at a route of walking soldiers and move accordingly.

By the way, did anybody took Racter on Boat mission? I wanted to know - did he said something on project?

[Rodin]

Yes, there is. Just look at a route of walking soldiers and move accordingly.

By the way, did anybody took Racter on Boat mission? I wanted to know - did he said something on project?

Yes, he's rather impressed from what I recall. I don't think he makes a fuss about whatever decision you make though.

I played through on Normal having had serious trouble with one of the bosses in Dragonfall, and the game proved far too easy. I was never in any danger of losing a run and only had someone go down a couple times.

At least until the final boss critted my character 4-5 times in a single turn and dropped her to single digit HP in one shot. Thank goodness that she was a Cybered-up monster that or it woulda been insta-gib city. Still needed a trauma kit in the end though.

[Cikomyr]

How much is the payout if you kill everyone in the Whistleblower mission?

I sticked with my Johnson. He didnt actually betrayed me, so no reason to damage my rep.

[Seerow]

How much is the payout if you kill everyone in the Whistleblower mission?

I sticked with my Johnson. He didnt actually betrayed me, so no reason to damage my rep.

Wait if you stick with the Johnson he doesn't have you attacked? I hit the hacker terminal nearby and got access to a security cam where you see him talking about betraying you, that pretty much proved the other guy was right to me.

[Rodin]

Wait if you stick with the Johnson he doesn't have you attacked? I hit the hacker terminal nearby and got access to a security cam where you see him talking about betraying you, that pretty much proved the other guy was right to me.

If you stick with the Johnson then he grumpily admits that you're a professional and pays you. He's still a jackass about it, but then "jackass" and "Tir Na Gog elf" are pretty much synonymous anyway.

I stuck with him because I was playing my character as a consumnate professional who had a Malcolm Reynolds "I do the job and then I get paid" outlook on life.

I didn't notice any actual benefits from doing so, so I'm kinda regretting it.

[Cikomyr]

If you stick with the Johnson then he grumpily admits that you're a professional and pays you. He's still a jackass about it, but then "jackass" and "Tir Na Gog elf" are pretty much synonymous anyway.

I stuck with him because I was playing my character as a consumnate professional who had a Malcolm Reynolds "I do the job and then I get paid" outlook on life.

I didn't notice any actual benefits from doing so, so I'm kinda regretting it.


He skiffs you on the payment tho. I hated that outcome. A measly 1000 N¥ for sticking with him?! I wished i was given the opportunity to insist on full payment.

[Rodin]

He skiffs you on the payment tho. I hated that outcome. A measly 1000 N¥ for sticking with him?! I wished i was given the opportunity to insist on full payment.

I believe "jackass" was also mentioned? :belkar:

I stuck with him in the hopes that doing so would give me further rewards down the line - kinda like how in Dragonfall if you botch certain jobs that client will cut you off. However, I didn't see any of that so I'm a little bit miffed. It's one area where I think Dragonfall is better - they made the rewards/consequences for your decisions on runs much more important. Apart from a couple of obvious "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" decisions, I didn't really see any of the tough choices in Hong Kong.

[Cespenar]

Turns out the "chuck back grenades" upgrade is pretty fun against soldier type enemies. Simply huddle two of your guys together and they chuck a grenade at them, only for it to be chucked back. Just had Wu stun four Tsang guards with one.

[Zrak]

Koschei

Nooooooooooo! Stop stealing my go to mage names, Shadowrun NPCs! First Dragonfall had Trithemius, now this. What am I going to name my next mage?

I mean, unless they have an earless portrait. Then obviously it's Kelley.

[Morty]

Once I get up to the offices, is there a way to enter the main lab and get the safe code without fighting security? Decking doesn't seem to accomplish much. And besides, getting detected ends up triggering the alarm in meatspace, too.

[Rodin]

Once I get up to the offices, is there a way to enter the main lab and get the safe code without fighting security? Decking doesn't seem to accomplish much. And besides, getting detected ends up triggering the alarm in meatspace, too.

As far as I know you have to fight security eventually. If you bring Racter along he can get you up to the floor with the lab on it, although I can't remember what other skillchecks may be necessary to do that. Once up there I had free run of the floor but getting into the safe requires cooperating with the other team, and they alerted security when their own run went south. It may be possible to hang the other team out to dry by not letting them in and just grabbing your main objective and scarpering, but I didn't try that so I dunno. I didn't have to fight anybody until I was in full extract mode.

[Morty]

I haven't had any contact with another team yet. I can't get past the security checkpoint in front of the main lab.

[Rodin]

I haven't had any contact with another team yet. I can't get past the security checkpoint in front of the main lab.

Sorry if I spoiled there. :smallfrown: Thought you were talking about later in the mission.

Like I said above, having Racter gives you special dialogue options for this mission. It certainly got me past the front desk. I believe you can then penetrate the lab security totally by disabling the elevators. This will also turn off their security scanners so the guards will just direct you to the stairs and you can take those without a pass. I don't remember the mission well enough to say whether there was a terminal to do this or whether there was a maintenance closet or something you had to talk your way into.

For reference, here's the stats I did it with:

Team: Racter, Isobel, one more of choice (didn't use their skills, of this I'm almost certain)
Charisma 6, Etiquettes: Shadowrunner, Gang, Academic.
No other notable support skills, as my main char was a cybered-up melee rage machine.

[Morty]

Yes, I disabled the elevators and took the stairs without fighting. I'm looking for directions after I've done that.

[Calemyr]

Yes, I disabled the elevators and took the stairs without fighting. I'm looking for directions after I've done that.

I assume you're in the area with the offices around a central area? (The offices belong to Rachter's friends, by the way.) The lab you need to get to is only accessible through a short hallway with a security team that shuts you down every time you attempt to get through?

Go back to the lab in the center of your current room, there's a note saying that the security room gets walled off during laser tests. Find the switch to start a laser test and the windows between the security team and the laser lab get blocked off - they don't get in your way then. Once in there, however, things will get hot. I suggest that (if you brought a decker) you hack the security systems before doing so, as you'll need to access functions there during a firefight shortly.

[Cyber Punk]

It's rather hard getting past the guards without being seen. Got any tips, anyone?

[Rodin]

It's rather hard getting past the guards without being seen. Got any tips, anyone?

On the deck of the ship there simply isn't a way other than watching the patrols and going when you see an opening. I got annoyed with the huge lag time between when I went and my team went, so I just killed them all. You can clear the deck of the ship without setting off any alarms though - just note the position of the radio and plonk yourself down on it at the beginning of the fight.

[Morty]

Well, I finished it. Overall, I'm very impressed. Dead Man's Switch was good, but not spectacular. Dragonfall was better, and got better still with the Director's Cut. Hong Kong continues the trend. There's quite a few things that I think more RPGs should do. Both in terms of mechanics, and story.

The final level managed to avoid the typical endgame fatigue... for the most part. There was a lot of fighting, but not to the point where it became tedious and made me wish it was over. I liked that in order to get the best ending and achieve full victory over the Yama Queen, you have to pay attention to your research with Crafty Xu. The game is generally quite good about making your choices matter.

I also enjoy the recurring theme that the world at large forgets about whatever big bad thing you tackled a month later at most.

[huttj509]

Well, I finished it. Overall, I'm very impressed. Dead Man's Switch was good, but not spectacular. Dragonfall was better, and got better still with the Director's Cut. Hong Kong continues the trend. There's quite a few things that I think more RPGs should do. Both in terms of mechanics, and story.

The final level managed to avoid the typical endgame fatigue... for the most part. There was a lot of fighting, but not to the point where it became tedious and made me wish it was over. I liked that in order to get the best ending and achieve full victory over the Yama Queen, you have to pay attention to your research with Crafty Xu. The game is generally quite good about making your choices matter.

I also enjoy the recurring theme that the world at large forgets about whatever big bad thing you tackled a month later at most.

It's post awakening. Something massive trying to eat everyone happens twice a week.

[Cyber Punk]

On the deck of the ship there simply isn't a way other than watching the patrols and going when you see an opening. I got annoyed with the huge lag time between when I went and my team went, so I just killed them all. You can clear the deck of the ship without setting off any alarms though - just note the position of the radio and plonk yourself down on it at the beginning of the fight.

Thanks, but never mind, I figured it out myself. Didn't kill anyone until the last part of the mission, then I killed everyone.

Presently in the process of doing Gaichu's run.

[Cikomyr]

Thanks, but never mind, I figured it out myself. Didn't kill anyone until the last part of the mission, then I killed everyone.

Presently in the process of doing Gaichu's run.

I myself didnt realized you had a camera access on the top of the ship until i left the boat...

And Gaichu's run was real fun. Straightforward, violent and good money. I'd appoint him as XO if i could. Hes my Shadowrun's Garrus.

Compared to the SNAFUs that were Gobbet's and Izo's runs

[Morty]

Something that puzzled me is that I appeared unable to actually use the active effect of Mystic Armor. It was always inactive with a "4" in the upper left corner.

[Cespenar]

I myself didnt realized you had a camera access on the top of the ship until i left the boat...

And Gaichu's run was real fun. Straightforward, violent and good money. I'd appoint him as XO if i could. Hes my Shadowrun's Garrus.

Heh, my Garrus was Racter. Damn the dude is fun. If only all psychopaths would be that functional.

[Calemyr]

Heh, my Garrus was Racter. Damn the dude is fun. If only all psychopaths would be that functional.

Preach it. Rachter is a blast, and absurdly useful - both for his brains and for that monster he hides his Id in. Gaichu was interesting (and it was nice to have at least one professional on the team), but being limited to melee really kinda sucks, especially since I kept missing on 99% chance hits (really, I spent entire 3 AP+Haste rounds hitting nothing but air with a 99% hanging over the foe's head). That and, while his condition always results in hilarity, it never makes things go smoother. He kills stuff, that's really about it. Everyone else seems to bring more to the table, without causing a scene that is resolved humorously.

[Rodin]

I'm now really regretting that I ganked Gaichu. I mean, my character was obsessed with getting the job done the way the client wanted, so I pretty much had to from a RP perspective. If I'd realized that he was a possible teammate I would have had a hard time not breaking character.

[Cyber Punk]

From an RP perspective, I should have murderkilled Gaichu. However, I decided to give him a chance, first. I wasn't willing to kill all the gangers to get to the new evidence and so had to kill everyone.

Understandably, Kindly Cheng was pissed.

[Calemyr]

From an RP perspective, I should have murderkilled Gaichu. However, I decided to give him a chance, first. I wasn't willing to kill all the gangers to get to the new evidence and so had to kill everyone.

Understandably, Kindly Cheng was pissed.

My guy, Snapshot, followed a fairly basic logic that helped with that mission.
1) The client is paying. Ideally they should get what they want.
2) I like breathing. Ideally, I should ensure I survive missions.
3) The client will find and every way to screw me, usually through deception in the mission parameters. Lies can get me killed.
Ergo...
4) Collect all data possible. If the client acts in good faith, I will achieve the mission. If I am being lied to, screw 'em.

As such, the mounting doubt from all the inconsistencies in the story gave Snapshot enough wiggle room to get Gaichu's side of the story.

[Cespenar]

My cyborg gal was always partial for the outcasts and weirdos, so she gave Gaichu the benefit of the doubt.

[Cikomyr]

My guy, Snapshot, followed a fairly basic logic that helped with that mission.
1) The client is paying. Ideally they should get what they want.
2) I like breathing. Ideally, I should ensure I survive missions.
3) The client will find and every way to screw me, usually through deception in the mission parameters. Lies can get me killed.
Ergo...
4) Collect all data possible. If the client acts in good faith, I will achieve the mission. If I am being lied to, screw 'em.

As such, the mounting doubt from all the inconsistencies in the story gave Snapshot enough wiggle room to get Gaichu's side of the story.

Basically this.

The clients knew who the serial killer was since the beginning. If they had wanted me to track down a disgruntled mercenary they screwed over, then id have trackes him down and killed him.

But thats not wgar happened. Instead they lied to me since the beginning and wouldnt care about my mission. They became the opponent once i figured things would get straight.

Too bad i couldnt insist that Gaichu gets his payment in addition to mine.

[T.G. Oskar]

Welp, the story of Magnus "Huoyan" Gutesson, Dwarf MysAd, has ended today (i.e., I finished the game. Yay!)

Of course, it ended up in a blaze...
On Prosperity Tower, I spoke with the Tsang Corporate VP as a shadowrunner, by which he suggested a small run - dig some content on Jo Tsang, and he'd be scot-free. I decided to, after a suitable Nuyen bonus, keep the money - that caused the first firefight. No biggie - I mowed 'em all down, Gobbet at final frickin' last used her Totem power to steal spirits, and Izzy just found everything. Got through all of the towers, crushing the opposition, until I rescued Mr. Black.

Then, at the Walled City, with all of the knowledge from the story of the Nameless King, I tricked Qian Ya into taking away the Fortune Engine and seal the rift. Everyone went "wait, what?" when I said I'd make a deal, but it was a counter-offer: she'd go away, leave all of the people safe, or the Queen's attempt to get a stronghold on the Walled City would be revealed, and she'd be killed. She has to fulfill her promises, so she left.

Amongst the curious things - getting the dirt on Mrs. Tsang gets a HUGE Nuyen bonus...well, more than you'll ever see in the game, but nowhere near as huge as the bonus from clearing DMS. Also - any eagle-eyed fan of the setting noticed who covered the entire thing? Nice Easter Egg about the Sixth World's future.

Who knew the Horizon News Network cpvered everything? Nice to see them before turning into a megacorp :P

So yeah - I ended up with Aim III, Heal Wound II, Stride, Martial Defense, Mystic Armor and Nerve Strike; Powerbolt III and the Racing Fulmination weapon focus (hey, Lightning Kill became an integral part of my combat strategy), and the 9 Armor outfit. As well, I had grenades, a Platinum Trauma Kit and a Shamanic Salve I never used, and a Hermetic Fetish I did use. A lot. Passively, of course.

Now, to wait until Shadows of Hong Kong in December. Maybe we'll get enough Karma to reach the top stuff on at least one or two things? Also...what kind of character I should do for a second HK run; Sammy, Decker/Rigger or Mage/Shaman?

[shadow_archmagi]

So I noticed that the Shield program that lowers damage? Makes you immune to Black IC, since it lowers *all* incoming damage by 40, and Black IC tends to do like 30 damage tops.

Also, your programs are immune to black IC, since again, they don't have HP.

[Cyber Punk]

Ok, this isn't a reply to Shield IC, but I have almost finished the game. I should have finished it, but I was testing out PES 16 (my first time showing interest in soccer in 7 years) and got a bit too engrossed.

I spared the Plastic-Faced Man because it made sense from an RP perspective, though I really wanted to pop him. I also told Kindly Cheng, and she was not happy. I get the feeling she'll track him down and finish the job herself.

I plan to replay the game with a female adept, make a lot of ******* decisions (like blow up the Sinking Ship without anyone's knowledge) and take different people to missions. That'd be after Shadows Of Hong Kong comes out, though. It's like how my next 2 playthroughs of Wasteland 2 will wait until the GOTY edition is released.

[factotum]

Just playing through the game with a street samurai sniper, having quite a bit of fun. One little quirk I have is that I refuse to select any conversation option with Kindly Cheng where I end up calling her "Auntie", though!

[druid91]

Just playing through the game with a street samurai sniper, having quite a bit of fun. One little quirk I have is that I refuse to select any conversation option with Kindly Cheng where I end up calling her "Auntie", though!

Really? I stole the Auntie line from Gobbet and that became the only thing I ever called her in person.

[factotum]

I just think it carries a familiarity that the character I'm playing doesn't want--as far as she's concerned she's forced to work with Kindly due to circumstances, she's certainly not going to say anything that would imply the relationship is anything more than employee and employer.

[Domochevsky]

I just think it carries a familiarity that the character I'm playing doesn't want--as far as she's concerned she's forced to work with Kindly due to circumstances, she's certainly not going to say anything that would imply the relationship is anything more than employee and employer.

Pretty much my take on this as well. Avoid calling her Auntie as far as possible.
We're not that familiar and I don't like you enough to call you by a family term, lady. :smallannoyed:

[druid91]

Eh, fair enough. I played through as "I've got nothing back in Seattle anyway, why not carve out a home in the shadows here? First step to that is when in Rome.... Gobbet calls her auntie and they're obviously not family, so I'll call her auntie."

Sure, helping Dad was a motivation but at the end of the day, he was thrown into a scenario where he could make a place for himself. So why not?

[shadow_archmagi]

Finished! Spared the plastic man because he was polite and asked to be spared. I spare anybody who asks. Also, Duncan spares one enemy per fight with his zipties.

I'm really pleased about getting the Not Getting Paid Enough For This achievement.

Managed to talk the Thousand Teeth lady down, which was fun. My character was 100% bluffing, too; she's friendly but not suicidal.


I also noticed my unarmed abilities are tied to unarmed weapons, so that if I carry spiked knuckles and the shock glove, I can use the armor-piercing fist with each of them, and with my vanilla fist. Seems abusive, but critting and dealing 4 AP damage to three different enemies was nice.

[Cyber Punk]

In my second playthrough, I'm going for the 'It's Just One City' Achievement. :smallamused:

[Brother Oni]

Pretty much my take on this as well. Avoid calling her Auntie as far as possible.
We're not that familiar and I don't like you enough to call you by a family term, lady. :smallannoyed:

Except that in Chinese culture, it's not just a family term, it's a title and term of respect towards a more senior person.

In a very close knit structure like a triad organisation, it's basically a giant extended family. The lead enforcer of your boss who keeps an eye on discipline but bails you out when things go completely pear shaped? He's your 'big brother'. The new kid that's still wet behind the ears and has barely started shaving? He's your 'little brother' and you look out for him.

Similarly, Auntie Cheng is your superior, but rather than call her laoban (老闆 which translates to boss in English, but there's a number of connotations that translation loses), in a family and gang based culture, she has the title of aunt (much like any close friend of your parents is referred to as aunt or uncle).

Unless you're very familiar with someone, it's considered rude to omit their title, particularly someone who's senior to you, and very rude to refer to them directly by their given name. 'Aunt Cheng' is slightly formal but polite, although once you've developed some familiarity, it's perfectly acceptable to just use 'Auntie'.
Calling her the equivalent of "Mrs Cheng" while not rude, is a bit distant and has a level of formality that may not be appropriate for the situation. Similarly using the full 'Kindly Cheng' is fairly neutral, but odd when talking to that person directly.

It all depends on the level of cultural integration that your character decides to go for. As noted earlier in the thread, making an effort to adapt and showing due respect to your elders reaps dividends.

Edit: While trying to find Auntie's first name, I read the comment that usage of 'Auntie' is effectively a result of your Etiquette: Triad result, which I don't disagree with. :smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

Except that in Chinese culture, it's not just a family term, it's a title and term of respect towards a more senior person.
.
.
.
It all depends on the level of cultural integration that your character decides to go for.

My character isn't really wanting *any* level of cultural integration--if there was a way to get out of Hong Kong and back to Seattle she'd do it in a heartbeat.


She saved Gaichu because, as far as she's concerned, it was the right thing to do, regardless of how much it annoyed Kindly Cheng.

[shadow_archmagi]

My character called her Auntie because my character is friendly and doesn't have a high INT so she just goes with whatever other people do.

[Cyber Punk]

My charismatic elf rifleman called her Auntie, and absolutely agreed with becoming a shadowrunner. My headcanon was that his time in prison and in the barrens taught him some survival skills, but that he has nothing home to go back to. He's also a nice guy with high charisma. In fact, that explains why I gave him the Gang and Shadowrunner etiquettes.

On playthrough 2, I'll make sure my female street samurai never uses the word Auntie, as well as naming her something like Felicia 'SHOOTFIRST' Jameson. I've not decided on the name, but the idea is that I'll see the shadowrunner name and remember that it's an evil playthrough.

In FO:NV, my good char was called 'Mr. Law' while my evil character was 'Crazy Bitch'.

[Brother Oni]

My character isn't really wanting *any* level of cultural integration--if there was a way to get out of Hong Kong and back to Seattle she'd do it in a heartbeat.

I don't have a problem with that, just trying to help people appreciate the effort that HBS have put into this game regarding Chinese culture.

That said, the main character has at least a conversational level understanding of Cantonese and you don't learn that much of a foreign language from a native speaker without understanding up some of the mannerisms.

[T.G. Oskar]

I don't have a problem with that, just trying to help people appreciate the effort that HBS have put into this game regarding Chinese culture.

That said, the main character has at least a conversational level understanding of Cantonese and you don't learn that much of a foreign language from a native speaker without understanding up some of the mannerisms.

Conversational? Considering how the story paints Raymond as some sort of strict tutor/drill sergeant, while definitely not native, the PC can speak fluent Cantonese (that goes beyond conversational, as it allows those nuances of speech like the familiarity of treatment, or extensive conversations as what the game provides). Duncan sets it up cleanly - from the moment you face the guards, you're expected to speak completely in Cantonese. Everything from the Hong Kong Shadowlands shard, the conversations with just about EVERYONE (save Duncan, who can speak English, and Racter who knows 15 languages, and maybe Ambrose for being a fellow UCAS-ian; compare to Gaichu, who has a very fluid grasp of Cantonese but most likely no other form of communication than Japanese, so you cannot express to him in English)...about the only thing that may be language-free is the Matrix while jacked in, and even then.

That said - "Auntie" can be used in a sarcastic way. Consider the end of the Whistleblower run; sending a stealth insult alongside "Auntie" can be really poignant, and she'd have to accept it nonetheless.

Decided to go once again, but this time with a female Human Decker/Rigger. Mostly noticing the differences just about everywhere, while going with what's most likely the most Nuyen-intensive build, as you need to measure how much Nuyen goes for your deck, your programs (though Maximum Law can cover you for most of them if you deliver metadata to him, while taking the due precautions), your choice of drone (Matty pretty much over-sells them!), your choice of weapon (though drones here are really strong, to be honest), and see if there's something left for outfits OR cyberware enhancements (most likely Vision Magnification, maybe one or two skillwires, and sadly no chance in the Underworld to get the Encephalon NEXT, because of its prohibitive price). On the other hand - interesting to see Strato drones having something else other than a simple turret.

[Brother Oni]

Conversational? Considering how the story paints Raymond as some sort of strict tutor/drill sergeant, while definitely not native, the PC can speak fluent Cantonese (that goes beyond conversational, as it allows those nuances of speech like the familiarity of treatment, or extensive conversations as what the game provides).

However the first time you meet Strangler Bao, he mentions how badly you're mangling the language and whether you're going to do the same to the message you're supposed to deliver.

The main character definitely gets better, but at the start, their Cantonese is most definitely accented (and in a tonal language, this will lead to problems), even if the other characters are too polite to mention it.

I vaguely remember Kindly Cheng saying something about 'At least you speak a civilised language' when you first meet her, although I could be mistaken.