Meta Magic Persistent Spell Rod

[Suzaku]

How much would the lesser, normal and greater version of these rods cost?

[Ramza00]

Lesser
+0, 2,700 gp
+1, 3,000 gp
+2, 9,000 gp
+3, 14,000 gp
+4, 35,000 gp

Notice there is no pattern. The value is the value of the effect not the spell slot adjustment. Furthermore if the item costs more than 300,000 gp it becomes an epic item immediately (and thus has its base cost multiplied by 10)

[Hario]

I think the lesser alone should be an epic item, I mean seriously for a 3rd level slot alone its using a 10th level spell slot, and how many pre-epic casters have that, none do. persisting 0 level spells is harmless, but 3rd+ level ones can start messing with campaigns just like divine metamagic + persistant metamagic cheese.

[Suzaku]

Umm 3rd level would be using a 9th level slot.

[Ikkitosen]

The normal and greater rods follow an almost linear cost vs. LA pattern. The lesser rods bugger it up though.

I don't advise allowing a Rod of Persistent Spell, but if you wanted to it'd be easy enough to cost for normal (118,500gp) and greater (267,000gp) versions. A reasonable fit to the lesser rod data gives a cost of 91,850gp.

[Tellah]

How much would the lesser, normal and greater version of these rods cost?

As the Sage so elegantly put it, "Exactly as much as your players are willing to pay for it, and not a copper piece less." There is no existing item that produces the same effect, and the SRD guidelines don't offer much guidance for making custom rods. I'd make the lesser rod so expensive that only a character of 15th level or higher could consider buying it with all of his money, and I wouldn't put the normal or greater versions in a non-epic campaign.

[Emperor Tippy]

I woudl make a regular rod (works on levels 4,5 and 6) cost 170,000 GP and the greater rod woudl be epic.

NOTE: I wouldn't allow them at all but 170K is the minimum that you should even consider.

[Nerd-o-rama]

How did you arrive at that figure? Just curious. Also, Ikkitosen, shame on you for not showing your work. Now you can't get partial credit if you buggered something up.

[Emperor Tippy]

Look at a Greater rod of Quicken. Quicken is a +4 spell level feat. So quickening a 9th level spell with it allows you to, in effect, cast a 13th level spell 3 times per day. The greater rod of Quicken costs 170,000 GP and in effect allows you to cast 3 13th level spells per day.

Persistent Spell is a +7 spell level feat. Persistent Spell combined with a 6th level spell uses a 13th level slot.

[Ramza00]

Persistent isa a +6 level not +7

[Emperor Tippy]

Hmm. So it is.

I would still keep it around 170K and not allow the greater rod.

[Ramza00]

I agree, remember even if the total metamagic may be the same as a rod of quicken it still takes a slot that is 2 levels lower, thus freeing one of your higher level slots. This difference in spell slots should be part of the price.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not For Sale.

this is probably the single most broken item I've ever heard of. Even more so than the Ring of Perpetual True Strike, and even moreso than Nightsticks, but for the same reason

I grab one. Use it on Divine Power and Righteous Might every day. I still have one extra buff I can persist on myself. And make the melee classes weep with envy.

No. Hell no. OMFG you must be CRAZY if you think I will let this in my game.

[Tellah]

Not For Sale.

this is probably the single most broken item I've ever heard of. Even more so than the Ring of Perpetual True Strike, and even moreso than Nightsticks, but for the same reason

I grab one. Use it on Divine Power and Righteous Might every day. I still have one extra buff I can persist on myself. And make the melee classes weep with envy.

No. Hell no. OMFG you must be CRAZY if you think I will let this in my game.

It's not any more broken than Persistant Spell itself, as long as it's suitably expensive. If you're playing in a game with epic or near-epic, mechanically optimized characters, it might not even be all that great. Divine Metamagic: Persistant, on the other hand, now that's broken.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's not any more broken than Persistant Spell itself, as long as it's suitably expensive. If you're playing in a game with epic or near-epic, mechanically optimized characters, it might not even be all that great. Divine Metamagic: Persistant, on the other hand, now that's broken.

This thing is way more broke than DMM: Persist. Here's why.

Blow 6 turn attempts. Say you've got a CHA of 18... you've got 4. Blow a whole feat on Improved Turning and you can pull off this trick ONCE per day.

OR

Obtain a MM Rod of Persist. I can now persist three spells of levels 1-6 per day at no additional charge. There's my Divine Power, my Rightous Might, and that gives me one more charge for something like GMW or Mass Bear's Endurance or something else similarly obnoxious.

If you want to compare, each one of these things is the equivelant of 24 turn attempts (6 levels for Persist, three times per day) worth of Nightsticks (however many that is, I think 6).

Broken. Pure and simple. Do not pass GO. Do not allow this in the campaign.

[Ramza00]

But it takes it out of your wbl. If the item is expensive enough (170,000 for a lesser thus lvl 1-3 spellls) that is a +9 weapon right there. There is a tradeoff.


I will still not allow it, but it is less broken than DMM persist. Remember with DMM persist you can be a Netural Cleric (who grabs turn undead) with 1 lvl of Dread Necro and double dip the number of attempts you have for DMM for you have turn and rebuke attempts.

Nightsticks are damn cheap at 7,500 gp

[Ikkitosen]

How did you arrive at that figure? Just curious. Also, Ikkitosen, shame on you for not showing your work. Now you can't get partial credit if you buggered something up.

Two points;

1) It's so simple I'm certain I didn't screw it up :smallcool:

2) I used MS Excel and plotted some graphs, fitted trendlines (hence my discovery of the trends :smallwink:) and performed extrapolations to get the costs - difficult to show my working, sorry :smallredface:

Only the lesser rods were anything other than very linear; do I get credit for mentioning that they "bugger it up"? :smallwink: