Cleric builds with houserules

[Sancelot]

Greetings,

my former cleric died and, since in a 6 player group I'm the only caster, I'll create another one. Since I was new at the table, I created a "standard heal-bot", didn't want to try to do anything fancy because I didn't know how the other players would react. Now that I know all of them, and as a cleric enthusiast, I'd like to know your opinions or suggestions under these house-rules:

- PHB 3.0
- 46 point buy, starting from 8 and 1-1 ratio. It's high as ****. My former cleric had 18 12 18 12 18 16, half-elf.
- 3 starting feats
- no flaw system
- no fractional bab on multiclassing / prc
- able learner for everyone
- all domains avaiable (there's only one god in this campaign)
- mysticism domain granted power is divine grace.

We're using Complete Divine, Arcane, Adventurer, Champion, Warrior, Draconomicon, Tome of Battle, Monster Manual, Defenders of the Faith and Forgotten Player's Handbook.

I was planning on going Cleric / Inquisitor / Ordained Champion / Bone Knight, but since I'm the only caster, I feel that the lost caster levels would be even more harmful during lower levels, even though it doesn't matter at 20.

Btw, I found Dracolyte quite interesting, any tips on how to optimize the baby dragon?(which I think is the most unique trait of the class).

So feel free to comment what you think would be viable, interesting or even OP in these circumstances.
(Sorry for any grammar mistake:smallbiggrin:)

[ExLibrisMortis]

The domain granted power is proper Divine Grace, charisma to all saves? You're picking that, I should think, especially with a crazy point-buy like that...

The wyrmling dragon you get from Dracolyte seems to be somewhat undefined. Basically, it's not an animal companion, not a familiar, and not a special mount. It can't gain levels, and it doesn't gain XP. That means it'll most likely be a pretty good ally at the level you get it (presumed 10, if you get a gold wyrmling at least), but it drops off later.

The most straightforward way to optimize it would be to boost its size and buff the hell out of it, getting that tasty full attack routine of claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail. Turning yourself into a dragon (or other creature) is probably more effective, though, as you'll be able to pick higher-HD forms.

You can also take a selection of domains, like Time and Dragon, then argue to your DM that that means you really should be getting a Time Dragon wyrmling. Those are in Dragon Magazine 359, and they are huge-sized and have 44 HD. Most likely, your DM will not approve, but it's worth a shot :smalltongue:.

[Andezzar]

- PHB 3.0are you sure it's not 3.5? What about DMG and MM? Do you use the update guide?

- 46 point buy, starting from 8 and 1-1 ratio. It's high as ****. My former cleric had 18 12 18 12 18 16, half-elf.
- 3 starting feats
- no flaw system
- no fractional bab on multiclassing / prc
- able learner for everyone
- all domains avaiable (there's only one god in this campaign)
- mysticism domain granted power is divine grace.Nice.


Forgotten Player's Handbook.Do you mean the Players Guide to Faerun?


I was planning on going Cleric / Inquisitor / Ordained Champion / Bone Knight, but since I'm the only caster, I feel that the lost caster levels would be even more harmful during lower levels, even though it doesn't matter at 20.Does your DM waive the deity requirements of PrCs since there is only one god anyway? If he doesn't that won't work. You don't seem to use one of the established settings, so is your DM fine with using PrCs from different settings (ordained champion is from Greyhawk, Bone Knight from Eberron?
I think you should drop the inquisitor. It does not do much for you and with Cleric 5/Ordained Champion 5/Bone Knight you still get 9th level spells by level 20.


Btw, I found Dracolyte quite interesting, any tips on how to optimize the baby dragon?(which I think is the most unique trait of the class).If there is only one god, a PrC based on worshiping draconic gods seems pointless. Has your DM approved of it?

[ExLibrisMortis]

The Church Inquisitor from Complete Divine grants the Inquisition domain, which grants +4 to dispel checks. Not only is that very good, you can qualify early, taking the level in place of cleric 5. There's basically no reason not to take it, assuming, of course, that you have the alignment covered, and enough skill points for some knowledges.

[Sancelot]

The wyrmling dragon you get from Dracolyte seems to be somewhat undefined. Basically, it's not an animal companion, not a familiar, and not a special mount. It can't gain levels, and it doesn't gain XP. That means it'll most likely be a pretty good ally at the level you get it (presumed 10, if you get a gold wyrmling at least), but it drops off later.

Indeed, but I always assumed it was a "leadership: dragon" feat. In that case, I presume that if I have the leadership feat then, he'd be able to level up ,right?


The most straightforward way to optimize it would be to boost its size and buff the hell out of it, getting that tasty full attack routine of claw/claw/bite/wing/wing/tail.

That's interesting. Do you think that he'd be able to do more damage than a full buffed cleric?



You can also take a selection of domains, like Time and Dragon, then argue to your DM that that means you really should be getting a Time Dragon wyrmling. Those are in Dragon Magazine 359, and they are huge-sized and have 44 HD. Most likely, your DM will not approve, but it's worth a shot :smalltongue:.

It'd be like my private megazord lol.


are you sure it's not 3.5? What about DMG and MM? Do you use the update guide?

We use the 3.5 DMG and MM. It's because the DM only owns the 3.0 PHB.



Do you mean the Players Guide to Faerun?


Yes , thanks xD



Does your DM waive the deity requirements of PrCs since there is only one god anyway? If he doesn't that won't work. You don't seem to use one of the established settings, so is your DM fine with using PrCs from different settings (ordained champion is from Greyhawk, Bone Knight from Eberron?
I think you should drop the inquisitor. It does not do much for you and with Cleric 5/Ordained Champion 5/Bone Knight you still get 9th level spells by level 20.

If there is only one god, a PrC based on worshiping draconic gods seems pointless. Has your DM approved of it?

The DM had another campaign going for 3 years (with the same players I'm playing with). It went to epic levels and their mission was, basically, to kill all the gods in order to a new supreme god reign. Some believe he's evil, some believes he's good.And that's why there's only one deity, we are playing in the future. And this campaign will probably go into epic levels as well. So, deity is not a problem. He assumes that the same god has multiple "faces".

[Warrnan]

Hmm. Well here's my idea, work on picking up as many domains as possible. I think you could take up to three of ordained champion to get war domain and some extra feats like improved initiative. I highly recommend at least a one level dip into church inquisitor as well, up to four levels to keep up with standard 3/4 base atrack. The magic domain, divine magician ACF, and other wizardy domains will give you ways to cover wizard stuff since you're the only caster. Enjoy playing a mystic theurge with out taking actual levels in that terrible class.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Indeed, but I always assumed it was a "leadership: dragon" feat. In that case, I presume that if I have the leadership feat then, he'd be able to level up ,right?
The class feature does not allow for that. If you have Leadership, you may be able to select a dragon cohort, who may be a wyrmling of some variety. If you level up, your leadership score goes up, allowing for a higher-levelled cohort. If you also have the Dracolye ability, your cohort is unaffected, and you get another wyrmling, for a total of two.


That's interesting. Do you think that he'd be able to do more damage than a full buffed cleric?
Well, it'll always be behind on base attack bonus, due to the wyrmling having limited HD (up to 8 for a gold dragon, I believe). That limits Power Attack, which limits damage output. On the other hand, you don't need to select any feats or spend any gold on getting six attacks on a full attack, just a size-increasing spell (you need large size for the tail slap), and it gets better if you have a dragon proficient with weapons*. The wyrmling has a good strength score, but with a point-buy like that, you could easily have better strength yourself - perhaps you can ask your DM whether you can get a better-than-standard array for your wyrmling, since the PC standard is so high.

Note that if you're getting a wyrmling that isn't medium-sized (anything besides gold and red, in the MM1), you're getting only five attacks with a size increase, three without, and your reach and damage will be significantly lower.

The main advantage is that the dragon can use its fully buffed melee routine without costing you any actions. You're free to melee alongside your dragon, or heal the party, or throwing dispel magic with the +4 bonus and using Divine Defiance to counter enemy casters.

*The dragon can attack with its weapon at +8/+3, then follow up with natural attacks, all at +3, or +6 with Multiattack. That way, you get 8 attacks per round. Look at the Wyrm of War sovereign archetype, from Dragons of Eberron.

[Bullet06320]

We use the 3.5 DMG and MM. It's because the DM only owns the 3.0 PHB.


as far as only 3.0 phb point him to the srd for 3.5 rules open game content plus unearthed arcana, epic and psionics to expand your available rules collection
http://www.d20srd.org/