harbringer help

[hoborobot]

so i was looking at the harbinger book from the upcoming path of war exwar expantion and Dark focus confuses me a bit. is it a a skill? is a feat? the reason im asking is if i choose half-elf as my class, would their (Adaptability: Half-elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level. ) class feature come into play if try to put skill focus as Dark Focus?

[Vhaidara]

Dark focus is a class feature. It has nothing to do with Skill Focus, or any skills. It involves choosing one of you available martial disciplines, like Cursed Razor or Shattered Mirror, and you gain bonuses wih it.

I wish I could help more, but I'm not really sure where you're seeing any relationship to skills or skill focus (also, I mostly use crimson countess harbingers, so I've never had to deal with dark focus)

[Nyaa]

Note that there are changes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?417748-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-(Discussion-Thread-V)&p=19353230&highlight=Grim+News#post19353230) to Countess not reflected in PDF nor in playtest doc.


I mostly use crimson countess harbingers
Please tell me more about them, I'm sure OP will be interested too. Did your GM throw books at you when mostly physical damage monsters face pool of blood?

[Vhaidara]

Never gotten past level 2 (just built one at 5). But I've done a lot of theroy building. Also, I have the Harbinger pdf, which is only missing the flight (but that's 10 levels past where I am, and I'm in play-by-post).

My experience is that it makes an insane duelist. Claim+Drain in combination with fighting defensively/combat expertise and Mobility strikes like red Zephyr lets you slowly whittle down opponents who can't manage to hit you.

Grasp of Darkness makes for great aoe damage (free d4s from the claim, drain for amazing recovery and solid damage over time to multiple enemies).

My biggest sadness was the nerfs on release to accursed will.

[Nyaa]

It looks like Fey Foundling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling) should work with Drain. With Grasp of Darkness, that's pretty significant healing at level 2-3. Though I'd say healing 3d6 hp per round at level 2 without it is good too.

[Vhaidara]

Ew, please keep your fluff straight man. I'm a vampire, not a fairy.

Also, Harbinger's already pretty feat starved. Between the Claim enhancing feats (which are generally AMAZING), the fact that they want to run a Dex build (light armor only), and the numerous other tricks (Step Up + Dark Presence + Step Up and Strike = 5ft step out of my threatened area? I follow you and stab you twice), there isn't a lot of room for 2 extra points of healing per die. This is made worse by the fact that, lacking any bonus feats, the Harbinger will still be taking feats that were viable options at level 1 when he's like, level 11 (Grasp, Authority/Allure, Malevolence, Winds of War, Finesse/Agility or Power Attack)

At most, you;ll end up with a 36 Int on dedicated builds (start 18, +6 Item, 5 level, 2 racial, 5 tome), for 13 claimed targets. So, after 4 rounds of Claiming (12/13), it would account for a grand total of 24 HP, which is a pretty minimal addition

[Lord_Gareth]

Ew, please keep your fluff straight man. I'm a vampire, not a fairy.

Also, Harbinger's already pretty feat starved. Between the Claim enhancing feats (which are generally AMAZING), the fact that they want to run a Dex build (light armor only), and the numerous other tricks (Step Up + Dark Presence + Step Up and Strike = 5ft step out of my threatened area? I follow you and stab you twice), there isn't a lot of room for 2 extra points of healing per die. This is made worse by the fact that, lacking any bonus feats, the Harbinger will still be taking feats that were viable options at level 1 when he's like, level 11 (Grasp, Authority/Allure, Malevolence, Winds of War, Finesse/Agility or Power Attack)

At most, you;ll end up with a 36 Int on dedicated builds (start 18, +6 Item, 5 level, 2 racial, 5 tome), for 13 claimed targets. So, after 4 rounds of Claiming (12/13), it would account for a grand total of 24 HP, which is a pretty minimal addition

It's almost like I didn't install bonus feats on purpose :p .

[Vhaidara]

It's almost like I didn't install bonus feats on purpose :p .

Yes. It is INFURIATING given that my favorite combat styles are very feat heavy.

Like, seriously, I wouldn't mind, but it means that my Dex builds aren't getting to the real meat of Harbinger until level 5 at the earliest. And that's if I skip on Disarm.

[Lord_Gareth]

Yes. It is INFURIATING given that my favorite combat styles are very feat heavy.

Like, seriously, I wouldn't mind, but it means that my Dex builds aren't getting to the real meat of Harbinger until level 5 at the earliest. And that's if I skip on Disarm.

How badly do you really need Deadly Agility when maneuvers provide bonus damage? And why is there Disarm at all on a class that has lower BAB and essentially never runs out of strikes?

[Vhaidara]

How badly do you really need Deadly Agility when maneuvers provide bonus damage? And why is there Disarm at all on a class that has lower BAB and essentially never runs out of strikes?

Because I was playing a duelist, and disarm seemed very appropriate. I was also running mostly utility/mobility maneuvers, as in not the ones that add a bunch of damage.

[Ssalarn]

Because I was playing a duelist, and disarm seemed very appropriate. I was also running mostly utility/mobility maneuvers, as in not the ones that add a bunch of damage.

Disarm is so rewarding when it works too. Nothing like flicking an enemy's weapon 15 feet away behind your buddy with the polearm.

[Vhaidara]

Disarm is so rewarding when it works too. Nothing like flicking an enemy's weapon 15 feet away behind your buddy with the polearm.

This man gets how the world works.

Though my biggest opponent was a Paizo swashbuckler. Mostly because that class is SO frontloaded (Parry/Riposte, Fencing Grace)