How do I make a Warblade (Prefer crit)

[Zmaxter]

Hey everyone, I know there's a couple of threads and builds going around regarding this, but I have a couple of doubts and I can't use magic classes either, so I decided to make my own thread.
Now, from what I've read it's highly recommended that I should use kukris and prestige into dervish, but I'd really like it if someone was able to either show me or make me a build with no magic or weapon enchancements where one would be able to make a pretty decent crit build.
All books are allowed as long as it's 3.5 and we're starting at level 6, but with level 1 gold, because there's no magic items (140g in my case)
Warblade seemed like a really interesting and fun class to roleplay as, but my powergamer side tells me I oughta get some kicks in while I can.
My party will have a rogue going prestige to master of masks, a bard, a sorceress and a scout ranger.
This implies that I would most likely have to be the, not per say the "tank", but at least the one in the front lines.
If you don't think going crit would be the most reliable thing, I would be grateful for other recommendations, as long as they allow me to stick with warblade.

[ComaVision]

In the world of no magic, magic rules all.



Seriously, that Sorcerer is going to be so much more powerful than everybody. The Bard too.



Warblade 6/Disciple of Dispater X with Minotaur Greathammer (MMIII I believe). At level 9 pick up Improved Critical, level 10 you'll crit everything. Use Blood in the Water stance and power attack ayyyyy

[Brova]

It's not as heavy on the Warblade side of things as it could be, but I have a soft spot for a Changeling Warshaper melee build. Something like Barbarian 1/Totemist 2/Fighter 1/Warblade 1/Warshaper 1, with future levels heading towards Warshaper, then probably more initiating classes. Could swap the Barbarian level for Warblade or Fighter.

[BowStreetRunner]

While these guys are going to tell you all the multiclass and prestige class options, I'm going to tell you what really matters for this build and let you decide for yourself. My current character is a Crit-based multiclass warblade and when he first joined the party everybody was unimpressed. Then we wound up in a huge battle and he totally went off the charts. I was doing something like +45 Attack and Damage by the time the battle ended.

First off, Blood in the Water stance is the heart of this build. You start picking up cumulative +1/+1 bonuses as you score crits and that just keeps building until you go more than 1 minute without scoring a crit. You can pick the stance up at first level and go from there.

Second, in order to work you need to maximize your chance of scoring a crit. There are several ways to do this. Off the top of my head I can think of these:

Have a good threat range. Threatening a crit on a 20 just won't do it. Using a weapon that has a crit range of 18-20 is good. Having Improved Critical or Keen weapons to take this to 15-20 is very good.
Make a lot of attacks. Making off-hand attacks is good. Using Combat Reflexes to increase your number of Attacks of Opportunity is good. Full attacking with Greater Two Weapon Fighting plus extra attacks from Haste as well as taking several AoO per turn is very good.
Be able to confirm your crits more easily. Any bonus to attack helps. Also, the Warblade has a 3rd level ability to apply their INT bonus to rolls to confirm crits. This is a nice feature for the build to have.


Now, the Warblade is already good at this build even without multiclassing. They not only have proficiency with the most common weapons that have good crit ranges (Kukri, Rapier, Scimitar, Falchion), but Rapier and Kukri are both associated with Warblade Disciplines so have good synergy with other discipline abilities. With Weapon Aptitude you also don't have to pick. If you go up the Weapon Focus tree or pick up Improved Critical with a weapon, you can change which weapon is linked to the feat later on. They have plenty of maneuvers that allow them to make additional attacks, sometimes as a standard action and other times as part of a full attack or as attacks of opportunity. They also gain their INT bonus to confirm critical hits at 3rd level and have several maneuvers that give additional bonuses to confirm crits as well.

If you are looking to multiclass or dip prestige classes just keep in mind that anything that increases your threat range, number of attacks, or ability to confirm crits is needed to make this build stronger. You also want to look for ways to deal crits to creatures who are otherwise immune to them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

All books are allowed as long as it's 3.5 and we're starting at level 6, but with level 1 gold, because there's no magic items (140g in my case)

No magic items existing is not a good enough reason to begin play at 6th level with 1st level wealth. Between mithral and adamantine and darkwood and dragonhide armor and shields, masterwork weapons, and all the mundane stuff from this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29), there would have been plenty of opportunities to accumulate wealth over the last five levels, and there's plenty to spend appropriate WBL on.

If you can start with more than just 140 gp worth of items (i.e. begin play with max ranks in Profession and Survival and say you took ten on your checks for ten years while living in a tent in the woods and foraging for food, giving you an additional 5,200 gp), get a masterwork Kaorti Resin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Falchion (exotic, 2d4, 18-20/x4), and take Ancestral Relic (BoED) at 3rd level to turn it into a +1 weapon yourself. Also get some decent armor and other items as mentioned above.

If you cannot start with any more wealth regardless of circumstances, and have no reasonable expectation of ever gaining any magic items, then begin play with Vow of Poverty (BoED). In this case start out with one of the following: Unarmed Swordsage 2/ Warblade 4, or Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) 1/ Warblade 3, or Monk 1/ Druid 5.

[hex0]

Yeah, you need to get the money figured out. Starting gp is barely workable at first level for a lot of classes.

I would suggest doing greataxe or greataxe with armor spikes for twf for more damage. If you take the axespike feat you can get an additional spike attack in.

Or you could play a dwarf and use an urgrosh take a level of exotic weapon master and get the flurry stunt and combine with twf.

If you are using kukris stick with bloodclaw master. Dervish is more for scimitars and isnt as good overall.

[Zmaxter]

I was thinking if there was a good reason for me to go STR instead of DEX, because I could as well get weapon finesse and max DEX for better AC & reflex, considering improved TWF requires 17 dex as well.

My stats are 17, 17, 15, 14, 13, 12 +1 point from level 4

What would you guys recommend?

[Hiro Quester]

Put the 17s into dex and con, the 15 into int. 14 str or wis.

Put the +1 into dex.

[Zmaxter]

Put the 17s into dex and con, the 15 into int. 14 str or wis.

Put the +1 into dex.

It was what I was thinking, too.

I just noticed I'll get weapon finesse from dipping swashbuckler, so it's most likely what I'll do.

Should I keep focusing all the +1s into DEX too? Or later should I get +1 into int and +1 into con just to get the mod?

And also is there another use for intelligence (In this case) except for the skills points per level?

[GreatDane]

And also is there another use for intelligence (In this case) except for the skills points per level?
Warblade has a lot of class featured keyed off of Intelligence, including battle ardor, which improves your chance to confirm critical hits. It's a good stat to have a positive modifier in for warblades.

[Pluto!]

Dervish with kukris just seems worse than straight Warblade. Its feats all get eaten by prereqs, Dex synergy and TWF stuff. If you're committing to that build out of a powergaming perspective, I'd give that a good cross-comparison befo

And also is there another use for intelligence (In this case) except for the skills points per level?
You'll probably want access to class entry before you try playing it. You can find it here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2).

[Extra Anchovies]

Faerie Mysteries Initiate is normally taken by minmaxy necropolitan grey elf generalist domain wizards, but the Warblade's good base Fort save in conjunction with the feat. would let you leave Con at 10 (or be undead) and boost Int more than you'd otherwise be able to.

[Hiro Quester]

Should I keep focusing all the +1s into DEX too? Or later should I get +1 into int and +1 into con just to get the mod?

And also is there another use for intelligence (In this case) except for the skills points per level?

I would pump each of these once, to bump up the mod for each. but that's a bit of a tradeoff, build-dependent choice. Do you want to be harder to kill, or more deadly, or more skilled and flexible (stances and maneuvers)? You will have a couple of levels to play with this to see how it feels before you have to choose that one. You will know by then, probably.

And yes, I don't recall the details, but warblade is your model of intelligent fighter, having a lot of good stances and maneuvers that key off intelligence modifier. The one to confirm critical hits is the obvious one for your build.

EDIT:
Another option for critfisher warblades is the lightning mace feat (Complete Warrior p. 61): you get an extra attack every time you threaten a critical hit.

Requires a feat on Weapon Focus (light mace) as well as combat reflexes and TWF which you'd take anyway. But the Weapon Aptitude warblade trick of retraining feats focussed on particular weapons (WF light Mace) to other weapons takes care of this, and enables you to still use your weapon of choice (e.g. kukris) with that extra attack on every critical hit.

FURTHER EDIT:
Strike that. Weapon Aptitude says you can't retrain a weapon feat that is the prerequisite for another feat, so you would have to us maces , which only crib on a 20. You probably don't want that. Apologies.

Unless your DM allows you to interpret Lightning Mace as also retrainable to focus on a different weapon. That seems dubious.

[Socratov]

So, we've started skirting around this build already, but basically you will need warblade, enough to gain Blood in the water (and maybe some nice things like IHS and some Diamond Mind) and some magic weapons. Else no fun while critting and no fun as a melee. Get 2 kukri's, enchant both with Aptitude (resulting in 2 +1 aptitude kukri's worth 8308 each for a whopping 16616gp, so you might want to start with one +1 aptitude and a light mace in the other until you can buy the second one) and get the following feats:

Combat Reflexes
Weapon focus (Light Mace)
Two Weapon fighting
Lightning Mace
Improved Critical

and further on you want to get stuff like Improved two weapon fighting, either get the pounce manuever from warblade, or go barb1 with spirit lion totem in your build.

the aptitude weapons now count as if they are anything for the purpose of feats. They will also (because of Keen) crit on a 15 and up.

Now the class levels to get the feats:

Human Fighter 2/Psionic warrior 2/Warblade 1 (continue Warblade if you want IHS and Diamond Mind)

this will get you the following feats:

Human: Weapon Focus (Light Mace)
1st: Combat Reflexes
Fighter (1st): Improved Critical (Light Mace)
Fighter (2nd): Two Weapon fighting
3rd: Lightning Mace
Psywar (3rd): -whatever you want it to be-
Psywar (4th): -go nuts-

Let your first warblade level get you Blood in the Water and go to town. Now every time you threathen a critical (and with your Kukri that's 15 and up) you get +1 to hit, +1 damage and if you confirm an extra attack

As for why this only works with Aptitude weapons, well the lightning mace feat only works with light maces. They only suck in terms of crit. threat range. If you can't get the money because your DM is a **** to martial classes by denying them the money and items to actually function play a warblade focused around a rapier and diamond mind, pump Con, Str, Concentration and go to town with the fury that is Diamond Mind and say no to everything the dm does to you.

[Zmaxter]

get the following feats:

Combat Reflexes


Is it really worth it getting combat reflexes? Enemies usually don't provoke AoO that much and there's many other feats I need to get.
I've also read a lot of the things you mentioned, but unfortuantely, we're going to have a very magically limited world, and start with lvl 1 gold, so the aptitude thing will have to wait.

I've decided with the following:

(I forgot to mention I have to be a human, sorry)

Warblade 1
Feats - TWF ; Snap Kick;

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1
Free Pounce

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1
Free Improved Unarmed & Power Attack Feats - Roundabout Kick

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1
Free Weapon Finesse

Warblade 2/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1

Warblade 3/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1

I'm going to keep adding to warblade and maybe I'll check some other cool prestige/base classes that can help me get more hits in.

I'm buying chain mail and two kukris+typical explorer deal

Eventually, I'll get improved critical, ITWP, lightning mace and such.

Thanks everyone for your input, I've read everyone's opinions and ideas, great thanks to BowStreetRunner for the general idea and Biffoniacus_Furiou for pointing me towards that list, should be useful in the future.

Any deferences?

[Socratov]

Is it really worth it getting combat reflexes? Enemies usually don't provoke AoO that much and there's many other feats I need to get.
I've also read a lot of the things you mentioned, but unfortuantely, we're going to have a very magically limited world, and start with lvl 1 gold, so the aptitude thing will have to wait.

I've decided with the following:

(I forgot to mention I have to be a human, sorry)

Warblade 1
Feats - TWF ; Snap Kick;

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1
Free Pounce

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1
Free Improved Unarmed & Power Attack Feats - Roundabout Kick

Warblade 1/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1
Free Weapon Finesse

Warblade 2/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1

Warblade 3/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Overwhelming Attack Monk 1 / Swashbucker 1

I'm going to keep adding to warblade and maybe I'll check some other cool prestige/base classes that can help me get more hits in.

I'm buying chain mail and two kukris+typical explorer deal

Eventually, I'll get improved critical, ITWP, lightning mace and such.

Thanks everyone for your input, I've read everyone's opinions and ideas, great thanks to BowStreetRunner for the general idea and Biffoniacus_Furiou for pointing me towards that list, should be useful in the future.

Any deferences?

Combat reflexes is a prerequisite for Lightning Mace (If DnD tools serves me right). Be sure to know that this combo only works as long as you use aptitude kukris (and I don't mean the Warblade classfeature, the actual weapon enhancement from ToB). If you really don't get to use magic weapons then I'd recommend you go the rapier (or take some form of elf and go Elven court- or thinblade which is like a rapier on happy pills) and get manuevers from the White RAven and Diamond Mind disciplines, with just enough to get to Iron Heart Surge (and IHS the lack of magic weapons away :smalltongue:).

[Zmaxter]

Combat reflexes is a prerequisite for Lightning Mace (If DnD tools serves me right). Be sure to know that this combo only works as long as you use aptitude kukris

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that as a prerequisite, but I should be able to get aptitude kukris eventually.
Thanks.

[Nifft]

If this is your first Warblade, then I really seriously suggest you stay pure Warblade, just to try it out, so next time you know what you'll be giving up if you multi-class.

Straight-up Warblade is awesome.

The one place it could be altered is: ask your DM if you can wait until level 5 to learn a new Stance, so you get a 3rd level Stance instead of another 1st level Stance. (I think that the Stance getting learned at level 4 instead of 5 was just an editing error rather than an intentional nerf.)

- - -

Instead of blowing a level to get Pounce, just take Sudden Leap (jump with a bonus as a Swift action) and one of the TWF-attack-as-a-Standard-action Tiger Claw Strikes, or the Iron Heart attack-twice-with-a-Greatsword Strike.

Seriously, your Maneuvers can do so much of what you're trying to accomplish by multi-classing, but they can do more if you stack Initiator levels and get the higher level Maneuvers.

I mean, there's nothing morally wrong with having one level in 20 different classes, but if it's your first time with a Warblade... go deep and hard. Experience the Warblade like a full-body impact. It'll leave an impression.

(... and it'll inform your future decisions.)

[Zmaxter]

Straight-up Warblade is awesome.

I KNOW! It's what got me interested in the first place :smalltongue:

The thing is, I really wanted to try out a full crit character, and three levels aren't that bad to miss, because my group really likes dropping campaigns, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

But thanks for the tips.

[Socratov]

If this is your first Warblade, then I really seriously suggest you stay pure Warblade, just to try it out, so next time you know what you'll be giving up if you multi-class.

Straight-up Warblade is awesome.

The one place it could be altered is: ask your DM if you can wait until level 5 to learn a new Stance, so you get a 3rd level Stance instead of another 1st level Stance. (I think that the Stance getting learned at level 4 instead of 5 was just an editing error rather than an intentional nerf.)

- - -

Instead of blowing a level to get Pounce, just take Sudden Leap (jump with a bonus as a Swift action) and one of the TWF-attack-as-a-Standard-action Tiger Claw Strikes, or the Iron Heart attack-twice-with-a-Greatsword Strike.

Seriously, your Maneuvers can do so much of what you're trying to accomplish by multi-classing, but they can do more if you stack Initiator levels and get the higher level Maneuvers.

I mean, there's nothing morally wrong with having one level in 20 different classes, but if it's your first time with a Warblade... go deep and hard. Experience the Warblade like a full-body impact. It'll leave an impression.

(... and it'll inform your future decisions.)

Well, actually I'd say that if you are going to multiclass and take dips, then take them early and take them in even numbers so you can up your initiator levels before you take warblade levels. Looking back on my build I think I can cut out the psywar leaving only a 2 lvl dip in fighter (thematically quite appropriate, and optimising wise also quite appropriate).

this leaves us at:

Human Fighter 2/Warblade 4

Human: Improved Critical (Light Mace)
1st: Combat Reflexes
Fighter (1st): Weapon Focus (Light Mace)
Fighter (2nd): TWF
3rd: Lightning Mace
6th: Improved TWF

Next feats include Spring Attack (so take mobility), powerattack, cleave and greater cleave. PA is a prereq. but cleave and greater cleave will make up for them as more attacks means more chances to pop your lightning maces.

As for stances, I guarantee that you'll generally stay in BitW stance, though you might like some utility stances for opening your charge since eventually you can change stance around for a swift acton or something (or even keep up 2). Also, a good thing about initiators is that other levels then initiator levels count for half your 'casterlevel' as an initiator, which decides what manuevers you can pick for your warblade...

For the rest you can't really go wrong and if you read this handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176968-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook-Under-Construction) you will know what the better manuevers are and what not.