1v1 duel with a friend. How do I crush him?

[Zmaxter]

Hey everyone, since I'm a powergamer, a friend of mine apparently made a really cool build and he wants to test it on me, but since I haven't played that many characters over the two years I've played, I want to ask you guys opinions on what things would potentially be fun to play and able to crush him at the same time.

The duel rules are:
-Lvl 6 character
-Any legal race (Inb4 bear)
-You can buy equipment with the level 6 start gold
-No magic, and that includes weapons, but items and armor are allowed
-Any Non-Magic Class is allowed
-We have to legit roll our abilities and HP

He will have to abide to the same rules as me, so we already know he's not going to use magic either, but that's all I know. I would make my own build, but all I'd probably do would be tryhard and min-max, so I want you guys to give me something that'll be kind of ridiculous, but preferably not really broken (If there's something broken really fun just tell me anyway)

Thanks and merry dungeoneering everyone.

[AvatarVecna]

Roll your abilities and we'll see what we've got to work with.

[IZ42]

Hey everyone, since I'm a powergamer, a friend of mine apparently made a really cool build and he wants to test it on me, but since I haven't played that many characters over the two years I've played, I want to ask you guys opinions on what things would potentially be fun to play and able to crush him at the same time.

The duel rules are:
-Lvl 6 character
-Any legal race (Inb4 bear)
-You can buy equipment with the level 6 start gold
-No magic, and that includes weapons, but items and armor are allowed
-Any Non-Magic Class is allowed
-We have to legit roll our abilities and HP

He will have to abide to the same rules as me, so we already know he's not going to use magic either, but that's all I know. I would make my own build, but all I'd probably do would be tryhard and min-max, so I want you guys to give me something that'll be kind of ridiculous, but preferably not really broken (If there's something broken really fun just tell me anyway)

Thanks and merry dungeoneering everyone.

For literal crushing of him, go Crusader and specialize in Stone Dragon. Rub salt in the wound by being a tibbit and doing this in cat form.

[Zmaxter]

Roll your abilities and we'll see what we've got to work with.

Good idea, should've thought of that.

Got 15, 15, 12, 12, 11, 10

Pretty average.

[Jormengand]

By magic, what exactly does that mean? Because if that includes psionics/(Sp)/(Ps)/(Su), you're going to be a lot more limited than if it doesn't.

[Azoth]

Tibbit swordage specializing in Setting Sun maneuvers. Judo toss him as a housecat.

Needed feats Combat Expertise, inmproved trip, don't mind me, twinning trip.

Basically, you start the fight in cat form, move into his square (without provoking an AoO), initiate a setting sun strike, make a trip attempt where you both are forced to use your Dex mods to resolve it.

Good news is Imp Trip + Setting Sun give you a +8 to trip. Downside is being tiny gives a -8. So if your buddy doesn't focus on Dex you should still have him 15 (base) +4 (cat form) +1 (4hd) +2 (gloves of Dex)=22 Dex =+6 trip mod.

Not the most optimal, but still funny way to win.

[ComaVision]

If he wants to mundane fight I'd just make a Half-Minotaur Orc tripping build. Hard for him to hit you if he can't get to you.

[sovin_ndore]

I am assuming at level 6 without Magic items that your enemy would be suceptable to level drain, so this would be my suggestion

Race: Tibbit [Dragon Compendium]
Classes: Swashbuckler 1[CW]/Fighter 2[SRD]/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Warshaper 1 [CW]/Soul Eater 1[BoVD]

Feats:
1: Improved Multiattack[DMG], Weapon Finesse
2: Dodge
3: Mobility, W.Focus(claws)
4: Improved Initiative
6: Improved Feint

I was kind of just filling things in there for feats, but the premise is pretty much there. The only thing you would need to worry about would be reach fighters with Stand Still or the like as you do need to provoke to enter their square and attack. That said, you have a stack of natural attacks all of them with carrier level drain.... since you only really need to touch with your natural attacks and you can feint as a move and pounce off a partial charge, we are looking at a pretty dead opponent in two rounds with no save if you can hit their flatfooted touch AC with your stack of natural attacks.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You can become undead (necropolitan) to avoid sneak attack, critical hits, ability damage etcetera. You lose a bit of HP, but you can put the 10 in con and be an elf, so you get a free +2 dex.

You can also become a mercury dragon wyrmling, 3 HD and 1 LA (one point of LA bought off, at level 6), with two levels in crusader (for the extra toughness). Just fly the hell away from whatever your friend is trying.

Edit: the idea being that you use Flyby Attack with your breath weapon, ranged weapon, or some sort of reach weapon.

[emeraldstreak]

Necropolitan will be worth 1 LA with an uncooperative DM.


Hey everyone, since I'm a powergamer, a friend of mine apparently made a really cool build and he wants to test it on me, but since I haven't played that many characters over the two years I've played, I want to ask you guys opinions on what things would potentially be fun to play and able to crush him at the same time.

The duel rules are:
-Lvl 6 character
-Any legal race (Inb4 bear)
-You can buy equipment with the level 6 start gold
-No magic, and that includes weapons, but items and armor are allowed
-Any Non-Magic Class is allowed
-We have to legit roll our abilities and HP

He will have to abide to the same rules as me, so we already know he's not going to use magic either, but that's all I know. I would make my own build, but all I'd probably do would be tryhard and min-max, so I want you guys to give me something that'll be kind of ridiculous, but preferably not really broken (If there's something broken really fun just tell me anyway)

Thanks and merry dungeoneering everyone.

Can you elaborate on:
- sources allowed: 3.0, 3.5, dragon magazine, third parties, etc?
- templates
- what is "no magic" "but items allowed"
- what is non-magic class

[Twurps]

If he wants to mundane fight I'd just make a Half-Minotaur Orc tripping build. Hard for him to hit you if he can't get to you.

Just pray the 'really cool build' your up against isn't a raptoran with a footbow. That would turn the tables fast. :smalltongue:

[emeraldstreak]

Just pray the 'really cool build' your up against isn't a raptoran with a footbow. That would turn the tables fast. :smalltongue:

yeah, that actually matters.

Terrain, ceiling (if any), light/other conditions, and starting positions matter a great deal in arenas.

[(Un)Inspired]

Human Psion 6. Use Vigor, Inertia Armor and Force Screen to shut down your opponents chance of hurting you with attacks and Energy Ray/Astral Construct them to death.

[Jormengand]

Human Psion 6. Use Vigor, Inertia Armor and Force Screen to shut down your opponents chance of hurting you with attacks and Energy Ray/Astral Construct them to death.

Well, because of psi-mag transparency, a ban on magic entails a ban on psionics. :smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

Take two levels of the Ghost Template Class, two levels of eidolon and using the feats to pick up a touch attack that deals a negative level For your last two levels, take one of battledancer and one of marshall, or the next two levels in the ghost template class.

[Zmaxter]

Basically, you start the fight in cat form

That's magic, not allowed.


By magic, what exactly does that mean? Because if that includes psionics/(Sp)/(Ps)/(Su), you're going to be a lot more limited than if it doesn't.

Yes, psionics also aren't allowed.


If he wants to mundane fight I'd just make a Half-Minotaur Orc tripping build. Hard for him to hit you if he can't get to you.


You can become undead/You can become a mercury dragon wyrmling.


By "legal" races apparently he means only regular stuff, no animals or draconic or templates and such.



Can you elaborate on:
- sources allowed: 3.0, 3.5, dragon magazine, third parties, etc?
- templates
- what is "no magic" "but items allowed"
- what is non-magic class

All sources are to be allowed as long as it's 3.5;
No templates;
No magic weapons allowed, but magic armor or items are allowed;
Basically anything that isn't arcane, psionic or divine, I guess. No shapeshifting either.


I am assuming at level 6 without Magic items that your enemy would be suceptable to level drain, so this would be my suggestion

Race: Tibbit [Dragon Compendium]
Classes: Swashbuckler 1[CW]/Fighter 2[SRD]/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Warshaper 1 [CW]/Soul Eater 1[BoVD]



This seems like it could work nicely in theory, but unfortunately Lion Totem Barbarian, Warshaper and Soul Eater wouldn't be allowed. Homebrewn isn't allowed either, so I don't know what you mean with swashbuckler.



Terrain, ceiling (if any), light/other conditions, and starting positions matter a great deal in arenas.

Apparently, the battle terrain is actually a giant suspended 6x13 stone bridge.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Swashbuckler is not homebrew...

[Jormengand]

So, SLAs are on the table? Roll up a warlock or a truenamer, then. Or since supernatural abilities are apparently allowed, except for wild shape, how about binder?

Or maybe I should stop trying to abuse the rules... :smalltongue:

[Necroticplague]

Since magic weapons aren't allowed, and neither are templates, I'd go with a Human Crusader. Pick up Troll Blooded and use Martial Spirit to just outlast him through sheer attrition.

[booitsjwu]

By "legal races" do you mean LA+0? Because Incarnate Construct Lolth-touched Mineral Warrior Warforged gives a pretty nifty +8 Strength, +12 Con, -2 Int (minimum 1), -4 Wis, -4 Cha +3 NA. Unless your friend's running a really tricky mundane social build (which actually is a really good idea...) this will help you wreck him.

[emeraldstreak]

Dragon 310 is 3.5; get the Pugilist Fighter variant from there for Shake It Off. If you don't use flaws, be Warforged with the Improved Resiliency feat (Races of Eberron, again 3.5). Congratulations, you are now immune to damage at lvl 1. Necropolitan (not exactly a template) does it even better; there are other ways, but don't waste too many feats if you don't use flaws.

A few pointers:

- if flight of some kind is allowed, it would be possible to leave the bridge and shoot your opponent.

- if conditions for stealth of some kind are allowed, see above

- no magic weapons: see if you can be incorporeal

- Mad Foam Rager feat, Counter Charge maneuver may help in this environment

- there's a maneuver that can easily throw people from a bridge, and there are many other ways too: might be easier to do it this way instead of fighting

[Necroticplague]

What's the bridge over? If its only 6 squares wide, shoving him off the bridge might be a viable tactic to win. Goliath Cleric1(Competition and Pride domains)/Crusader1(Charging Minotaur)/Fighter2 (power attack and IMP bull ruch)/Totemist1. Also pick up the Knockback and Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlet) feats. That should have a pretty good chance of knocking him off the bridge if you pump up your STR.

[emeraldstreak]

That's magic, not allowed.

Yes, psionics also aren't allowed.

By "legal" races apparently he means only regular stuff, no animals or draconic or templates and such.

All sources are to be allowed as long as it's 3.5;
No templates;
No magic weapons allowed, but magic armor or items are allowed;
Basically anything that isn't arcane, psionic or divine, I guess. No shapeshifting either.

Apparently, the battle terrain is actually a giant suspended 6x13 stone bridge.

I take it wands and scrolls are banned too, but what of potions, powerstones, various tattoos, etc?

Are martial scrolls allowed?

[(Un)Inspired]

Well, because of psi-mag transparency, a ban on magic entails a ban on psionics. :smalltongue:
That's not what magic-psionics transparency means but it looks like psi is banned regardless.

Seeing as that's the case I would like as exact as possible guidelines for what's aloud and what isn't. For instance, are shadow hand teleports magic? They seem just as magic as psionics does to me but I want to know what this DM thinks.

[Rubik]

Play a web-enhancement kobold (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) with the Human Heritage feat and Jotunbrud. Now you're treated as both Tiny and Large at the same time. Add in Enlarge Person, Expansion, or the Catelogues of Enlightenment (Sunken City of Pazaar) and you can be Huge, too!

It's not quite Tiny von BigMcLargeHuge, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?132294-Tiny-Von-BigMcLargeHuge) but it's close!

[Crake]

or the Catelogues of Enlightenment (Sunken City of Pazaar) and you can be Huge, too!

Except sunken cities explicitly says it doesn't stack with similar abilities, and I'm sure jotunbrud would count as a similar ability. Still an interesting build, I might try it out some day

[Rubik]

Except sunken cities explicitly says it doesn't stack with similar abilities, and I'm sure jotunbrud would count as a similar ability. Still an interesting build, I might try it out some dayJotunbrud isn't a similar ability. "Increase size category by 1" isn't similar enough to "treated as 1 or more size categories larger for certain purposes" to even be similar.

[LooseCannoneer]

1) Fighter 1
Power Attack
EWP Spiked Chain
Combat Reflexes
2) Fighter 2
Improved Bull Rush
3) Fighter 3
Combat Expertise
4) Fighter 4
Improved Trip
5) Fighter 5
6) Fighter 6
Knock-Down
Shock Trooper

I don't think I missed anything here. Charge him, power attack for as much as you can. You'll get a free trip attempt on-hit guaranteed, then another attack from Improved Trip if you land the trip. Your friend then has to get up, provoking an AoO with all of your Power Attack damage bonuses.

EDIT: You need to be a human. Apply whatever templates you want.

[Lerondiel]

Seemingly with magical effects excluded, at 12 squares range at 6th level with about 50HP it could be a straightforward game of rocket tag.

A simple orc, pouncebarian/fighter with +2 belt, locked gauntlet, masterworked greatsword and a furious reckless charge doing +18/+13 2d6+22...with imp initiative and danger sense....you're going first 90+% of the time and the opponent's flat footed and cant use any immediate actions or AoO.

If you roll badly or he holds some of it off with crusader, he needs nothing less than dazing/stunning attacks against your raging fort save to get back in the game. Being a lot of HP behind he wont dominate Imp Grapple with a base race enough and tripping is irrelevant...you'll finish him off from prone.


There's nothing stylish or clever about it, but without magical effects blunt force trauma is hard to stop. :)

[ben-zayb]

If you consider unupdated 3.0 material to be 3.5 legal too, then Fiend Folio and Tome of Magic can give you Kaorti (2HD, +2LA) / Binder 1 / Fiend of Possession 1. Become Ethereal and possess one of your buddy's items, then spam Far Hand on the dude who has no idea what the heck's happening.

[ComaVision]

Per my previous suggestion, an Orc Crusader tripper would still destroy, especially with these bizarre restrictions.

[noob]

Well that works until the opponent fly but I remember an magic armor allowing to fly some time(dungeon master manual) is that armor allowed?
Also is a good hurling hulker build possible at level 6(you can take this prc at level 6)

[Socratov]

why not play the D2 crusader? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8547.0) You only need to hit once and you'll deal just about infinite damage. So, unless he has a means of making sure you can't hit him, your success is inevitable... Never mind, that'snot available at lvl 6.

Hmmm... Well other fun stuff like a DFI bard is atill available and with DFI and Snowflake Wardance you are guaranteed to hit and deal tons-erf-dermerge (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1kAp3C-Jv0) (with Words of Creation, subbing Song of the Heart for one of your songs, badge of valour/inspirational boost (SpC), masterwork Natural Horn, etc.) you can gbet enough bonus damage to roast him where he stands.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Raptoran/Wing Dragonborn archer. If the other guy's melee, he's doomed, and if he's a grounded ranged, you still have height advantage.

[SinsI]

If you want to crush him, play Dungeon Crusher. But since you say Lion Totem Barbarian is not available, does it mean that alternative class features for other classes are not available, too?
Or make a trap and let him be crushed by a few tonnes of granite falling on his head.

Second the question of "what is magic in "no magic""?
Maneuvers from Tome of Battle? Soulmelds from Magic of Incarnum?
Almost every good melee non-caster class has something that can be considered "magic", so what options are actually available?

[Socratov]

since magic equipement isn't really condoned you can always play a meldshaping class. If you do, I advice you to take Totemist for the many natural weapons route...

[sovin_ndore]

So, relative to some of this discussion, I think we really need to draw a line on what we are allowed or not allowed for this fight.

Are viable races restricted to PHB races or are other races allowed? How about races with LA or racial HD? Are 3.0 books allowed or just 3.5? Are we allowed to use offically published Variant classes (such as those from UA) or Racial Substitution levels? Are racial spell-like abilities allowed or class features that are spell-like or supernatural abilities?