Ranger's Apprentice character!

[ImSAMazing]

Allright Playgrounders,

I am playing in a upcoming sandbox D&D 5e game and the party will consist of: a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian(Later on fighter, sort of a CG Viking build), another Mountain Dwarf Fighter(Later on Barbarian) sort of CG Viking build, a Bard and me. I am thinking since the Party has enough damage but lacks some scouting/stealth build, I will do that, so that will be my main role.

To get to the point, I really like the Ranger's Apprentice books and I have decided to make a build that at least looks like one. This is my idea(For information, we will start at lvl 1 but we will continue to at least lvl 9):

Ability Scores(we had an array of: 8, 16, 12, 12, 17, 13) inclusive RAI:
Strength: 8(8)
Dexterty: 18(17)
Constitution: 14(13)
Intelligence: 12(12)
Wisdom: 16(16)
Charisma: 12(12)

Race: V. Human
Class: 1 Rogue

Skills: +8 Stealth(Expertise), +7 Insight(Expertise), +3 Investigation, +5 Perception
Saves: +6 Dex, +3 Int
10 HP(1d8+2)
16 AC(Studded Leather, I think that is Ranger-ish)

Sam shoots with a Longbow, or fights with a shortsword in 1 hand and a dagger in the other hand(a throwing knife and a "fighting" knife).

Feat:
Skulker or Sharpshooter, both give the idea of a Ranger's Apprentice.



I am planning to take a level in Fighter when I reach level 2 for the Archery Fighting Style and for a higher HD. After that maybe 1 or 2 levels in Rogue becoming an Assasin and so I am able to hide as a bonus action(will work great with Skulker). After that some Fighter levels OR some Ranger levels, not sure yet.


Do you have any idea's to change my skills, other classes, other feats? I am thinking about changing v. human to Stout Halfling because I can hide way easier and because a feat doesn't give that much.

[ImSAMazing]

Any idea's / thoughts on this? Any help is appreciated

[Greyfall]

Looks like you've got the core of the build down for sure. I'd probably go w thief archetype vs assassin, but it's just preference.
Also, I'd be careful multi classing into 3 different classes.

Disclaimer, I haven't read the books, but read through spoilers for the series before posting this.

[ImSAMazing]

Looks like you've got the core of the build down for sure. I'd probably go w thief archetype vs assassin, but it's just preference.
Also, I'd be careful multi classing into 3 different classes.

Disclaimer, I haven't read the books, but read through spoilers for the series before posting this.

I wont MC into 3 different classes I think. Just Rogue and Fighter/Ranger

[Malifice]

Any idea's / thoughts on this? Any help is appreciated

Why are you taking a level of fighter at 2nd for higher hit dice and archery?

Rangers get the same HD as fighters (d10) and get the archery style at 2nd level anyways. And they get spells.

Such as hunters mark for an extra 1d6 damage per attack.

Dont MC at 2nd.

Stick with ranger to 5th before MCing anywhere. Get your second attack (its an exponential increase in power) and then consider a MC into (BM) fighter.

[ImSAMazing]

Why are you taking a level of fighter at 2nd for higher hit dice and archery?

Rangers get the same HD as fighters (d10) and get the archery style at 2nd level anyways. And they get spells.

Such as hunters mark for an extra 1d6 damage per attack.

Dont MC at 2nd.

Stick with ranger to 5th before MCing anywhere. Get your second attack (its an exponential increase in power) and then consider a MC into (BM) fighter.

So first a lvl Rogue (maybe 2 for Cunning Action?) And then 5 levels Ranger? I'd like to start as Rogue for skills, Expertise in Stealth and Insight and some Sneak Attack. And i like the saves betrer.

[Malifice]

So first a lvl Rogue (maybe 2 for Cunning Action?) And then 5 levels Ranger? I'd like to start as Rogue for skills, Expertise in Stealth and Insight and some Sneak Attack. And i like the saves betrer.

I really really wouldnt unless its a must have for fluff. Just select the criminal or outlander background to reflect it.

Rangers get three skills at 1st level, Plus one for human and two from background - this should have you more than covered. You'll already be massively stealthy thanks to your high Dex+prof in stealth. (+6 isnt that much different from +8).

Get to 5th as a single classed ranger. Go directly to 5th. Do not pass go, do not MC into Rogue. Trust me. At 5th level you gain extra attack AND you will have access to pass without trace (+10 to stealth checks). Your gains to damage and stealth are exponential at 5th level, and you want them online as soon as possible.

Then at 6th level go into Rogue. Youve got your second level spells and your extra attack (and hunter archetype fighting style) by then. Take 5 levels for sneak attack+3d6, cunning action, expertise in stealth and perception and assasinate (youre a 'hunter' and a tracker) and the big prize - uncanny dodge.

From there, dip BM fighter to pick up action surge, an addtional fighting style, and superioirty dice (the ones to get are pushing attack, precise attack, and menacing attack). As a ranged character, you want to land those -5/+10 hits from marksman so precise strike is a godsend, and when you do land them, tack a sup dice onto your now (3d8+4d6+15) arrows to scare your enemy and make him unable to come closer to you.

I'd jump back into ranger from there and ride it out to 12th for the feats. extra slots, and extra hunter goodies.

[ImSAMazing]

I really really wouldnt unless its a must have for fluff. Just select the criminal or outlander background to reflect it.

Rangers get three skills at 1st level, Plus one for human and two from background - this should have you more than covered. You'll already be massively stealthy thanks to your high Dex+prof in stealth. (+6 isnt that much different from +8).

Get to 5th as a single classed ranger. Go directly to 5th. Do not pass go, do not MC into Rogue. Trust me. At 5th level you gain extra attack AND you will have access to pass without trace (+10 to stealth checks). Your gains to damage and stealth are exponential at 5th level, and you want them online as soon as possible.

Then at 6th level go into Rogue. Youve got your second level spells and your extra attack (and hunter archetype fighting style) by then. Take 5 levels for sneak attack+3d6, cunning action, expertise in stealth and perception and assasinate (youre a 'hunter' and a tracker) and the big prize - uncanny dodge.

From there, dip BM fighter to pick up action surge, an addtional fighting style, and superioirty dice (the ones to get are pushing attack, precise attack, and menacing attack). As a ranged character, you want to land those -5/+10 hits from marksman so precise strike is a godsend, and when you do land them, tack a sup dice onto your now (3d8+4d6+15) arrows to scare your enemy and make him unable to come closer to you.

I'd jump back into ranger from there and ride it out to 12th for the feats. extra slots, and extra hunter goodies.

Really considering this, sounds fun. Thinking about changing race to Stout Halfling, which one should I choose?

[Malifice]

Really considering this, sounds fun. Thinking about changing race to Stout Halfling, which one should I choose?

I'd avoid halflings - they cant use longbows (heavy weapons). I would consider wood elf though (great synergy with Ranger - Dex, Wis, Hiding at will in natural terrain)

I'd pick either the elf, or v human and take either marksman or crossbow master (for different fluff) as your feat.

[ImSAMazing]

I'd avoid halflings - they cant use longbows (heavy weapons). I would consider wood elf though (great synergy with Ranger - Dex, Wis, Hiding at will in natural terrain)

I'd pick either the elf, or v human and take either marksman or crossbow master (for different fluff) as your feat.

No Skulker feat? Seems pretty Ranger to me. I will go with a Longbow Ofcourse

[Malifice]

No Skulker feat? Seems pretty Ranger to me. I will go with a Longbow Ofcourse

Take Marksman. Trust me. Ignoring cover (i.e. your companions in melee) is huge. The -5/+10 is also massive. Assuming you pick horde breaker as your 3rd level Hunter ability, at that level you'll be dopping two shots turn, the first at +4 dealing 1d8+1d6+14 (ignoring cover) and the second at a different target dealing 1d8+14 (also ignoring cover at +4). Gain advantage on those attacks if youre hidden first (at +7 to stealth).

Yes, that's around 40 DPR if both hit... at 3rd level.

At 5th level (assuming you raise Dex at 4th, and you stick with ranger) youre doing two attacks per round at your primary target at +6 (ignoring cover and range) dealing 1d8+1d6+15 per hit, and then lobbing a follow up attack at someone else at +6 dealing 1d8+15.

From there you add ever growing sneak attack damage onto the first succesful attack, and gain bonus action (dash, disengage and hide) for ultimate kiting ability, plus expertise in stealth and perception. Gain assasinate at 3rd for deadly stealth nova strikes, and then nab uncanny dodge at 5th level to halve any damage from return ranged attacks that manage to actually hit you.

Take Skulker at 9th level (Ranger 5/ Rogue 4) if stealth is really huge to you. Your dex should already be maxed by then anyways.

Once a Ranger 5/ Rogue 5, (dex 20, skulker, marksman) its probably time to jump into BM fighter for 3 levels (for 'hard target' nova strikes thanks to action surge, and superiority dice). Gain a +1 to AC (and a natual climb and swim speed) at this point too thanks to taking the mariner style (if allowed) or just accept the +1 from the defence style if not.

After that, jump back into ranger for the next 7 levels to take you to 20th. The extra oomph from spellcasting will be useful as you advance in level, and the defensive ability (multiattack defence) is worth it's weight in gold against high level beasts that often come with 2 or 3 attacks per rpund, and the mobility to reach you. During these levels, youll gain two more ability score bumps - I would look to bump Wisdom (its a common save also) with these.

As for equipment, look for a magic bow ASAP. Arrows too if you can find them (but ration them for 'hard' targets). The oath keeper bow is number one on your wish list. Elven boots and cloak for stealth options.

[djreynolds]

Any idea's / thoughts on this? Any help is appreciated

If you're taking the longbow as your weapon than volley is a key class feature you will want. Unless you're going another route with archery.

And as crazy as it sounds I'd take fighter first. Now here me out. Once you multiclass in rogue and ranger, each will give you an extra skill for each. Taking fighter first to level three as a battle master gets you action surge and precision. Plus early on expertise doesn't do so much because of your proficiency bonus is not that high yet, only +2 till level five. Now you're at 4th level grab your rogue till third level and grab assassin. Now you have at just level six, action surge, auto crit, expertise in two skills with a +6 bonus instead of +4, such as stealth and perception, +2 archery style, and precision to make sure that sneak attack hits and two more maneuvers, such as parry and trip. But taking fighter first gives you the constitution save and more levels in rogue will net you uncanny dodge and you're okay with dexterity saves.

Now you can take 13 levels in ranger and grab levels in rogue 4 for an ASI or 5 for uncanny dodge. The great thing about these three class is that you only need dex, con, and wis. And they all go together well.

If you don't want to start as fighter, and that's perfectly okay, go ranger because he gets str and dex as his saves and there will be strength saves out there and then just grab resilient con. But going fighter first gives you con, and you're dex "should be good enough", and you can grab resilient wis and +1 for wis.

[Malifice]

And as crazy as it sounds I'd take fighter first. Now here me out. Once you multiclass in rogue and ranger, each will give you an extra skill for each. Taking fighter first to level three as a battle master gets you action surge and precision.

But then you run into the problem of offsetting your extra attack feature by at least three whole levels if you dont stick with fighter.

A ranger with hunters mark (online from 2nd) and archery style is more dangerous than a ranged fighter, and it's online a level earlier.

Add the third level ability (an extra 1d8 damage or a whole extra attack vs a second target) - which is when BM dice come online for the rangesd fighter - and you're pretty clearly in front even at this level.

The bonus feat (and increase in casting) at 4th and then extra attack at 5th level (and access to 2nd level spells) and you're set for the next few levels to MC at that stage.


Plus early on expertise doesn't do so much because of your proficiency bonus is not that high yet, only +2 till level five. Now you're at 4th level grab your rogue till third level and grab assassin.

6th level with one feat from human only, and still only the single attack?

A Ranger 5/ Rogue 1 is superior at this level in my books. By a fair way.


But taking fighter first gives you the constitution save and more levels in rogue will net you uncanny dodge and you're okay with dexterity saves.

As a ranged character, Con saves arent the biggest deal. Seeing as from 10th level uncanny dodge is online (Ranger 5 Rogue 5) a lot of incoming damage is halved anyways.


Now you can take 13 levels in ranger

After taking 3 of Fighter and 3 of Rouge? You wont hit extra attack till 11th level!

That class feature alone doubles your attack potential. Even delaying access by a single level is painfull.

[coredump]

I am playing this build right now.

I went ranger2, then rogue 2, then ranger 5, then rogue 5..... after that either more rogue, or maybe battlemaster3/4.... not sure yet.

Yes going straight to Ranger 5 seems better, but between the expertise to stealth/perception skills, the extra 1D6 for damage, and the cunning action for hiding or kiting.... I am *very* happy to have the rogue levels. Even thought about going rogue3(assassin).... but went to Ranger. Extra attack is pretty cool.

I went Vuman with Sharpshooter.... but it was a really hard choice between that and wood elf. Glad I went with Vuman, but who knows.

[Malifice]

All classes have baked in exponential increases in power at 5th level (and at 11th).

Delaying those increases is massive. My rule of thmb is never (unless the fluff demands it) dip before hitting those levels, and if you do, never by more than a single level - two at absolute maximum.

It's not so much what you give up now, but what you delay access to later.

[Centik]

Nothing to do with your actual build, but, as I've also really enjoyed the RA series, I considered a King's Ranger build as well. My recommendation for style points is a Cloak of Elvenkind. Suits the need for a ranger cloak, looks snazzy and, most importantly, gives disadvantage to those trying to spot you!

[Malifice]

Nothing to do with your actual build, but, as I've also really enjoyed the RA series, I considered a King's Ranger build as well. My recommendation for style points is a Cloak of Elvenkind. Suits the need for a ranger cloak, looks snazzy and, most importantly, gives disadvantage to those trying to spot you!

Just ensure your character gets it in a scene that is later cut, so when you hide under it before the gates of Mordor, the whole audience is confused.

[djreynolds]

Yeah waiting on volley hurts.

I guess what is needed is what does the player want.

Is he an archer who can also "skulk" when needed and fight two handed and ambush, or an ambusher who can also snipe.

For a prototypical longbow man, ranger till 11 and then some cherry picking of fighter and rogue to help out his melee.

But for a melee ambusher, rogue/fighter is nice and he can snipe to.

Lots of choices, I guess it depends on how bad he wants Volley at ranger 11 and how early, or if he wants it at all. Our party ranger is perfectly comfortable killing from range and scouting, and then stepping up with sword and board to protect the squishes or help out and tank. You only need at small dip of rogue and fighter, just as small as 2 fighter and 3 rogue because max dexterity and sharpshooter with wild elf will get you there soon.

Volley is an expensive class feature, but as it should be. By level 11 ranger you have earned it. I haven't seen it yet, or whirlwind in game play and I'm excited for the kid playing the ranger.

[ImSAMazing]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I'll start off as lvl 1 Ranger and I'll continue that until level 5. Should I consider playing a Spell-less Ranger? Ranger's Apprentice doesn't have any magic so maybe that would fit in? Combat manouvres are also very useful in combination with Sharpshooter.

[Malifice]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I'll start off as lvl 1 Ranger and I'll continue that until level 5. Should I consider playing a Spell-less Ranger? Ranger's Apprentice doesn't have any magic so maybe that would fit in? Combat manouvres are also very useful in combination with Sharpshooter.

Check with your DM about the interaction between the dice pool of spell-less rangers and BM fighters.

If he foolishly pools the two, then absolutely go one (and BM fighter).

[ImSAMazing]

Check with your DM about the interaction between the dice pool of spell-less rangers and BM fighters.

If he foolishly pools the two, then absolutely go one (and BM fighter).

And if not? Is it still worth it?

[Malifice]

And if not? Is it still worth it?

Youre already getting dice from BM so maybe not.

Although if he simply lets the levels stack BM3 +SLR12 = 15 levels worth of dice, so d10's, 9 manouvers and 6 dice.

It's really what you think best works with the concept.

[ImSAMazing]

Youre already getting dice from BM so maybe not.

Although if he simply lets the levels stack BM3 +SLR12 = 15 levels worth of dice, so d10's, 9 manouvers and 6 dice.

It's really what you think best works with the concept.

True. My DM is thinking about letting it stack. I do have a question:
Should I buy a Pony ?

[Beleriphon]

True. My DM is thinking about letting it stack. I do have a question:
Should I buy a Pony ?

I in return have a question: Why shouldn't you buy a pony?

[ImSAMazing]

I in return have a question: Why shouldn't you buy a pony?

Because it isn't that practical when you want to fly, want to go over water and for Stealth missions.

[Inevitability]

Because it isn't that practical when you want to fly, want to go over water and for Stealth missions.

1. Make sure the pony had his parents killed in front of him by a mysterious stranger.
2. Bring the pony to a nutty shadow monk who lives in some desolate place.
3. Wait several years.
4. Once pony has been trained in the arts of stealth, have nutty grandmaster killed.
5. Embark with ninjapony on an epic mission for revenge.

There you go, one pony you can take with you on stealth missions!

[ImSAMazing]

1. Make sure the pony had his parents killed in front of him by a mysterious stranger.
2. Bring the pony to a nutty shadow monk who lives in some desolate place.
3. Wait several years.
4. Once pony has been trained in the arts of stealth, have nutty grandmaster killed.
5. Embark with ninjapony on an epic mission for revenge.

There you go, one pony you can take with you on stealth missions!

And how am I supposed to do that at lvl 1?

[Beleriphon]

And how am I supposed to do that at lvl 1?

You aren't this is a fair bit of hyperbole. As for my question, well it looks like you have a few reasons not to get a pony, but keep in mind pack animals aren't meant to follow you, they're meant to carry more gear for you to a camp and then you hike it the extra distance to your target.

[ImSAMazing]

You aren't this is a fair bit of hyperbole. As for my question, well it looks like you have a few reasons not to get a pony, but keep in mind pack animals aren't meant to follow you, they're meant to carry more gear for you to a camp and then you hike it the extra distance to your target.

True. Ill consider it at level 2 or so.

[coredump]

Thanks for your opinion guys! I'll start off as lvl 1 Ranger and I'll continue that until level 5. Should I consider playing a Spell-less Ranger? Ranger's Apprentice doesn't have any magic so maybe that would fit in? Combat manouvres are also very useful in combination with Sharpshooter.

Don't believe the hype. Straight Ranger to 5 is not the end all be all... Yes the second attack is a good thing, but so is the extra damage from the sneak attack die, or the extra damage from using Cunning Action to Hide and get Advantage. So is getting expertise in Stealth and perception, or being able to disengage and still attack, or double move to get into position (or kite the enemy away) and still be able to attack.

Its only 2 levels either way.... but I have been able to do much more with Cunning Action and Expertiese than I could have with a damage boost.

[coredump]

I do have a question:
Should I buy a Pony ?Maybe not at level 1, but I am a big fan of getting a draft horse and wagon. They are just so darn handy.... Either drive it yourself, or hire someone to drive it for you. Sure you may lose it occasionally, or you may have to send it back.... big deal, its what 85gp for both?

[CNagy]

It's not as cut and dry as rush to 5th. If you are for all intents and purposes the party Rogue, then getting extra attack a few levels later does not interfere with your role because the standard Rogue never gets an extra attack feature. If you are going to be primarily a ranged Rogue, Uncanny Dodge can likewise be delayed a level or 3 without significant harm. I wouldn't stop at Rogue5, because 6 gives you Expertise in two more skills and 7 gives you Evasion, which is arguably as or more useful than Uncanny Dodge depending on circumstances.

[Sigreid]

Based on what you're asking, if it was me: Level 1 Rogue with Outlander background for sneaky and explorery. Level 2 Fighter for Archery fighting style. Level 3+ back to rogue. A level or 2 of ranger won't really give you much of anything that Outlander won't give you, at least that won't be bested by more rogue.

[djreynolds]

There are great guides that more experienced players than I created. The death dealers handbook is great for that big nova hit. Ponies can be bought and when not needed stabled or sold for a price. If you want a Halfling go ahead.

But what is your concept of the character. I feel that a rogue/ fighter is as good if not better than a spell-less ranger. That's the power of the rogue and fighter, you don't have to invest as many levels. A ranger's spell set is awesome for utility. The ranger can live off the land without any help or stores or merchants.

The ranger takes investment though to get to the good stuff. Fighters and rogue are very front loaded and great for multi-classing and "dips".

There was a build for a Halfling "out-rider" or something like that, that had a lot of horseback archery or slinging. And there is no real big investment anymore for two-weapon fighting with a dexterity based character. Obviously a shortbow is best for ranged attacks buy gnomes and halflings.

IMO, if you are not taking ranger for volley or whirlwind, its perhaps not worth it. These are two awesome class features that you must obtain to make all that work worth it. That means level 11 sooner rather than later. You're party role will also help dictate your direction in character development, this is just a laboratory and you must put it together in the game.

Very cool concept, love to see what is looks like down the road.

[ImSAMazing]

There are great guides that more experienced players than I created. The death dealers handbook is great for that big nova hit. Ponies can be bought and when not needed stabled or sold for a price. If you want a Halfling go ahead.

But what is your concept of the character. I feel that a rogue/ fighter is as good if not better than a spell-less ranger. That's the power of the rogue and fighter, you don't have to invest as many levels. A ranger's spell set is awesome for utility. The ranger can live off the land without any help or stores or merchants.

The ranger takes investment though to get to the good stuff. Fighters and rogue are very front loaded and great for multi-classing and "dips".

There was a build for a Halfling "out-rider" or something like that, that had a lot of horseback archery or slinging. And there is no real big investment anymore for two-weapon fighting with a dexterity based character. Obviously a shortbow is best for ranged attacks buy gnomes and halflings.

IMO, if you are not taking ranger for volley or whirlwind, its perhaps not worth it. These are two awesome class features that you must obtain to make all that work worth it. That means level 11 sooner rather than later. You're party role will also help dictate your direction in character development, this is just a laboratory and you must put it together in the game.

Very cool concept, love to see what is looks like down the road.

I will go for Ranger 5 at first, since I still have my bronze oakenshield :smallwink:, after that 7 levels Rogue for Evasion and some good sneakattack, and then I ll continue Ranger until I am ranger 13. I think it will be fun to play, I am what normal people call a ''Munchkin & Murderhobo'', but for once I dont want to be the best optimised character.

[djreynolds]

The Iron Tower Trilogy, some say a poor man's Lord of the Rings, had awesome halfling characters. Its worth the read, and I enjoyed the books. I like the build.