Is it possible to build a viable Dual Wielding/Two handing Switch Hitter?

[Dusk Eclipse]

This is mostly inspired by the Project Yi skin (From League of legends), the character in question changes from using a single blade two handed into using it as a two-bladed sword during his ultimate
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JKcfcKRoDcc/VdYvsAoZDyI/AAAAAAAAGBI/bZtFFCxqAIg/s1600/yifront.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EoBhmQuKcn8/VdY0GWwuKfI/AAAAAAAAwHc/CM68SdpefSE/s1600/r.jpg



And that got me thinking, is it possible to make a character who can do something similar and be a viable character. Granted one could simply pick up Double Blade Sword proficiency, power attack and the TWF line and could probably be okay with just two-handing the sword occasionally, but that just seems lazy, and boring; I'm sure the playground can do better than that. Feel free to suggest things from 3.5 or Pathfinder.

[SkipSandwich]

There's PrC that allows you to treat both ends of an Double-Scimitar as two-handed weapons for purpose of adding str to damage and power attack. I forget which book it comes from though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Revenant Blade from Player's Guide to Eberron (IIRC), how the hell did I forget about it; one of my favourite classes ever. While it is a very powerful choice it has the issue that if you have that class TWF will always be the better option.

[Extra Anchovies]

That would be Revenant Blade, from Player's Guide to Eberron. It's Valenar-only, though.

In Pathfinder, you'd want Prodigious TWF so you don't need Dex and Str, or you'd want to play a Slayer to get the TWF chain without needing to meet prerequisites.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Personally I would go with Prodigious TWF, but slayer is a good class (specially if you don't have access to DSP content), there are a couple of interesting feats that require power attack and could work with TWF, Dazing Assault and Stunning Assault are pretty decent.

[Dondasch]

What if you invest in TWF and Ubercharging? You go two-handed when charging, but switch to TWF when you can't.

[Darrin]

What if you invest in TWF and Ubercharging? You go two-handed when charging, but switch to TWF when you can't.

You can do both quite easily.

Primary Weapon: Greatsword (or any other two-handed weapon)
Offhand Weapon: Unarmed strike, armor spikes, spiked gauntlet, dwarven buckler-axe, etc.

It requires a lot of feats, but that's nothing a Fighter 20 or Barb 2/Fighter 18 needs to worry about.

Revenant Blade has already been mentioned. Some other possibilities:

Hooked Swords + Flying Tiger style (Secrets of Sarlona). These hooked swords can be linked into a single one-handed reach weapon as a free action. You can grip it two-handed, or switch it back to dual wield as a free action. I am not entirely sure if you can attack with it two-handed as your primary, switch to your offhand as a free action, link up the swords as a free action, and grip it two-handed as your offhand attack... RAW you should be able to, but I can't quite wrap my head around it.

Actually, you should be able to switch any double weapon to a two-handed grip for your primary attacks and a dual-wield grip for your offhand. The damage rules for this are ambiguous... the rules are explicit about how you calculate the attack penalties for double weapons, but not how you determine damage. When you attack with a double weapon, technically both the primary and offhand ends of the weapon are being wielded with two hands.

Other methods:

Dragon Tail + Prehensile Tail.

Multiple arms (Thri-Kreen, Diopsid, etc.).

Glove of the Master Strategist/Kimono of Storing.

[gadren]

I'm fairly certain there's a spell or magic weapon ability that lets you shapeshifter your weapon into a different weapon, just can't remember what it was.

[Gnaeus]

Other ways:

Some kind of martial/precision damage entry into chameleon. Use the floating feat to support your weapon set of choice for that day.

Any tome of battle build with some TWF type maneuvers. Switching your weapon is as easy as switching maneuvers.

Probably sneak attack or some other bonus damage is going to be part of any switch hitter build. It isn't necessary for the switch hitting itself, but:
1. in general, most decent TWF builds need bonus damage ANYWAY, since the real advantage of TWF is multiple weak attacks.
2. It actually provides a reason to be a switch hitter. You are almost always going to be better with one style or other, and spending resources to allow the other option almost invariably makes the primary attack weaker. Something like sneak attack gives a reason for the build (if target is subject to sneak damage and you have a way to make the bonus damage happen, you TWF, otherwise you attack single weapon for more damage)

[frost890]

Using a quarter staff it would be easy. You just choke up or down on the staff. Depending on the GM you can do it easy if you want to ask you should be able to use it with any polearm (spear or apoleaxe). I think in one of the books (ToB maybe) there is a feat called pommel strike. I can not remember what it does exactly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can do both quite easily.

Primary Weapon: Greatsword (or any other two-handed weapon)
Offhand Weapon: Unarmed strike, armor spikes, spiked gauntlet, dwarven buckler-axe, etc.

It requires a lot of feats, but that's nothing a Fighter 20 or Barb 2/Fighter 18 needs to worry about.

Revenant Blade has already been mentioned. Some other possibilities:

Hooked Swords + Flying Tiger style (Secrets of Sarlona). These hooked swords can be linked into a single one-handed reach weapon as a free action. You can grip it two-handed, or switch it back to dual wield as a free action. I am not entirely sure if you can attack with it two-handed as your primary, switch to your offhand as a free action, link up the swords as a free action, and grip it two-handed as your offhand attack... RAW you should be able to, but I can't quite wrap my head around it.

Actually, you should be able to switch any double weapon to a two-handed grip for your primary attacks and a dual-wield grip for your offhand. The damage rules for this are ambiguous... the rules are explicit about how you calculate the attack penalties for double weapons, but not how you determine damage. When you attack with a double weapon, technically both the primary and offhand ends of the weapon are being wielded with two hands.

Other methods:

Dragon Tail + Prehensile Tail.

Multiple arms (Thri-Kreen, Diopsid, etc.).

Glove of the Master Strategist/Kimono of Storing.

One issue that I've always had with the "dual wield greatsword+armour spikes" (besides the mental image) is that the spikes wouldn't get the damage bonus from power attack and therefore would just loose accuracy for free.

Hooked Swords area a really interesting idea, and are surprisingly friendly to refluff as a double bladed sword with a collapsible blade, thanks for mentioning them.


I'm fairly certain there's a spell or magic weapon ability that lets you shapeshifter your weapon into a different weapon, just can't remember what it was.

Weapon Shift, not really that good since the spell specifies that double weapons can't be targeted by or be the result of the spell.


Other ways:

Some kind of martial/precision damage entry into chameleon. Use the floating feat to support your weapon set of choice for that day.

Any tome of battle build with some TWF type maneuvers. Switching your weapon is as easy as switching maneuvers.

Probably sneak attack or some other bonus damage is going to be part of any switch hitter build. It isn't necessary for the switch hitting itself, but:
1. in general, most decent TWF builds need bonus damage ANYWAY, since the real advantage of TWF is multiple weak attacks.
2. It actually provides a reason to be a switch hitter. You are almost always going to be better with one style or other, and spending resources to allow the other option almost invariably makes the primary attack weaker. Something like sneak attack gives a reason for the build (if target is subject to sneak damage and you have a way to make the bonus damage happen, you TWF, otherwise you attack single weapon for more damage)

That is certainly an interesting idea, could work really well with a Swift hunter build I guess.

[Darrin]

One issue that I've always had with the "dual wield greatsword+armour spikes" (besides the mental image) is that the spikes wouldn't get the damage bonus from power attack and therefore would just loose accuracy for free.


That's why I prefer Improved Unarmed Strike. You still get PA damage on unarmed strikes. Granted, you don't get double damage for two-handed, but at least you still get a damage bonus.

Getting two-handed PA damage on both your primary and offhand damage is tricky. You need four arms (Thri-Kreen or Diopsid usually work best) and Oversided TWF, but it can be done with a one-handed weapon as your offhand.

[Dondasch]

That's why I prefer Improved Unarmed Strike. You still get PA damage on unarmed strikes. Granted, you don't get double damage for two-handed, but at least you still get a damage bonus.

Getting two-handed PA damage on both your primary and offhand damage is tricky. You need four arms (Thri-Kreen or Diopsid usually work best) and Oversided TWF, but it can be done with a one-handed weapon as your offhand.

As an alternative to extra arms, get Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow.