If you are a druid with animal companions

[Masakan]

Can you teach your animal companion new tricks without the need for handle animal? At least without having to put points in it?

[TheifofZ]

Technically, no. You need to be able to roll the DCs to teach it tricks, but if someone else in the party has handle animal trained, then they could roll for you as long as you're present, as per the 'buying trained animals' set of rules.

Of course, you can bypass this completely by spending the HD ability point increase on Int to increase that stat above 3, thereby granting it sentience, which in turn changes it from being an unintelligent animal in need of training into a very stupid party member that happens to be unable to speak, and is closely associated with you.

Now, if you were to ask me if you could use Handle Animal to train your very stupid party members, I'd say that it'd be easier to do it out of game, with cheap treats like mountain dew and pizza.

[Melcar]

Can you teach your animal companion new tricks without the need for handle animal? At least without having to put points in it?

Im pretty sure, that the HD extra tricks are leaned without needing to use handle animal, just like a wizard gets co auto copy spells at level increase!

[TheifofZ]

You are correct. Bonus Tricks that a Druid Animal Companion gains at the relevant levels are learned automatically, with no checks being made.

Which is different from just randomly adding tricks to your animal companion.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The bonus tricks also do not count against the maximum number of known tricks that an animal can learn. They are a free gift to you.

[Malimar]

Of course, you can bypass this completely by spending the HD ability point increase on Int to increase that stat above 3, thereby granting it sentience, which in turn changes it from being an unintelligent animal in need of training into a very stupid party member that happens to be unable to speak, and is closely associated with you.

When doing this, make sure you're not in a group that holds the interpretation that raising Int above 3 makes a creature no longer an Animal and thus no longer eligible to be an Animal Companion.

[TheifofZ]

Wait... what. There are groups that... what.

Changing stats does not change type! WHY?:confused:

[soapdude]

Wait... what. There are groups that... what.

Changing stats does not change type! WHY?:confused:

According to the SRD (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animal_Type):

Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).

[Malimar]

Wait... what. There are groups that... what.

Changing stats does not change type! WHY?:confused:


Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).

It doesn't say what an Animal becomes when its Intelligence rises to 3 (many groups assume it becomes a Magical Beast), but it's actually pretty clear that it ceases to be an Animal.

The less clear part is whether a non-Animal can't be an Animal Companion. I assumed that it couldn't, but I'm not actually seeing anything to that effect.

[TheifofZ]

According to the SRD (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animal_Type):Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).

However, IIRC, as soon as an animal becomes your Animal Companion, it's type changes to Magical Beast instead of Animal for all purposes except HD size, BAB, Saves, Skills, and Feats.
As ability scores don't fall under those categories, that would mean Int can be raised as normal.

And if it's the case where it still counts an animal rather than Magical Beast, then that instead means that it's Int -cannot- be raised above 2 to 3, rather than 'ceases to be an animal'.
The wording on that part is fairly clear.

[Malimar]

However, IIRC, as soon as an animal becomes your Animal Companion, it's type changes to Magical Beast instead of Animal for all purposes except HD size, BAB, Saves, Skills, and Feats.

That's the Paladin's special mount. The same language isn't found on the Animal Companion.

[TheifofZ]

That's the Paladin's special mount. The same language isn't found on the Animal Companion.

From the Player's handbook: "A Druid's Animal Companion is different from a normal animal of it's kind in many ways. The companion is treated as a Magical Beast, not Animal, for the purposes of all effects that depend on it's type (though it retains an animal's HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats). It is superior to a normal animal of it's kind and has special powers as described below."

And then there's a chart for level advancement which we aren't bothering with.
Given that I am literally looking at both paladin and druid at this very moment, I can say the language in regards to type is exactly the same.

[Malimar]

From the Player's handbook: "A Druid's Animal Companion is different from a normal animal of it's kind in many ways. The companion is treated as a Magical Beast, not Animal, for the purposes of all effects that depend on it's type (though it retains an animal's HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats). It is superior to a normal animal of it's kind and has special powers as described below."

And then there's a chart for level advancement which we aren't bothering with.
Given that I am literally looking at both paladin and druid at this very moment, I can say the language in regards to type is exactly the same.

Huh, I stand corrected. The language is in the PHB but not the SRD.

[Chronos]

Yeah, that nicely resolves the question of what happens to an animal companion when its Int is increased.

I wonder, though, why that didn't make it into the SRD. I can't see any OGL issues with it, and it's rules text, not just descriptive.

[Jack_Simth]

From the Player's handbook: "A Druid's Animal Companion is different from a normal animal of it's kind in many ways. The companion is treated as a Magical Beast, not Animal, for the purposes of all effects that depend on it's type (though it retains an animal's HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats). It is superior to a normal animal of it's kind and has special powers as described below."

And then there's a chart for level advancement which we aren't bothering with.
Given that I am literally looking at both paladin and druid at this very moment, I can say the language in regards to type is exactly the same.

Strange... I'm not seeing it in my copy. Got a specific page reference? Might also help to get the printing date; WotC does sometimes integrate errata into later printings.

[TheifofZ]

My hard copy was printed 2003, so it may have been errata'd since then.
(Book's still in amazing shape, too, given it's over a decade old at this point.)

Not sure why they would change the druid's but not the paladin's, though. Someone link to the SRD for further reference, then?

[Jack_Simth]

My hard copy was printed 2003, so it may have been errata'd since then.
(Book's still in amazing shape, too, given it's over a decade old at this point.)

Not sure why they would change the druid's but not the paladin's, though. Someone link to the SRD for further reference, then?

Ah, that's the trouble. You've been Errata'd (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/PHBErrata02062006.zip).
Animal Companion
Player’s Handbook, page 36
Contrary to the text, a druid’s animal companion is not
treated as a magical beast; it remains an animal.
Trim the first paragraph of the sidebar so that it reads as
follows:
A druid’s animal companion is superior to a normal
animal of its kind and has special powers, as described
below.


Didn't take long to get it; my copy's 2004.

[TheifofZ]

Yes, that would be the source of confusion. Thank you for linking that.

Not sure exactly why they removed that, but that does clear things right up; druid animal companions can't get an Int above 2, then, and need skill tricks as per normal.

[Enran]

By the power of errata, I decree: too smart an animal companion will cease to be.

[Malimar]

By the power of errata, I decree: too smart an animal companion will cease to be.

It will pine for the fjords. It will be no more. Bereft of life, it will rest in peace. It will be an ex-animal companion.

[Naez]

If you're a good druid though you can take Exalted Companion from the Book of Exalted Deeds which adds the celestial template to your companion giving it an Int of 3 and no longer need to learn tricks.