Tier 3 conversions

[Zireael]

I am looking for tier 3 conversions/fixes for all base classes.

Any help?

[AtlasSniperman]

From what I can tell, the main power of the T1 casters comes from their variety of spells rather than from any class abilities. You might try decreasing spells/day, but that simply lowers the amount they do in a day. To decrease T1 and T2 caster classes, you're likely going to have to limit the availability of spells.

I don't know how to really help in this regard as it's easier to envision adding versatility rather than restricting it, but I wish you luck in finding the classes you want.

[Jormengand]

Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339561-Specialist-casters-for-fun-and-profit!) (Just make it divine for clericyness, focus on conj (heal) and transmutations on self). Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406572-The-Ineffable-Disciple-%28PEACH%29). Marshal, maybe bard if you refluff it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409691-The-Commander-%283-P-class-PEACH%29). Truenamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?397500-The-Worldspeaker-revisited-Truenamer-PEACH). Another wiz/cle fix, sorta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427410-quot-Your-card-is-fireball-I-forsee-doom-in-your-future-quot-%28Pseudo-vancian-caster-PEACH%29&).

[Nifft]

I am looking for tier 3 conversions/fixes for all base classes.

Any help?

Suggestion:

1 - Start by listing the Tier 3 classes which you like.

2 - Post that list, and identify any holes in the list (e.g.: "Needs more classes capable of healing. Needs more item-crafting." etc.)

3 - Ask for help about those specifics.

[Eldan]

My wizard and sorcerer. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?233664-Arcane-Magic-Base-Class-and-System-Overhaul-WIP-PEACH) It's a total overhaul of the magic system, though.

[Zireael]

Splatbook tier 3s I like: Warblade, Swordsage, Crusader, Factotum, Duskblade, Psychic Warrior

Homebrew tier 3s I saw in Morph Bark's Compendium thread that match what I'm looking for: Dawnblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190289-3-5-Dawnblade-the-duskblade-s-paladin), Divine Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267853-3-5-Base-Class-The-Divine-Champion-Giving-the-half-casters-some-love), Improviser (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255381-A-solution-for-every-situation!-%283-5-Baseclass-PEACH%29) (a little bit too much IMHO)

Holes: I'd like to see a tier 3 fighter fix which does not mean 'slap some maneuvers on it'. So that I can have both a Warblade and a Fighter as distinct classes.

I also need a ranger fix, it seems.

[Nifft]

Holes: I'd like to see a tier 3 fighter fix which does not mean 'slap some maneuvers on it'. So that I can have both a Warblade and a Fighter as distinct classes. Why? The Fighter is among the most boring classes in the game. Duskblade, Crusader, Warblade, and Psywar do the Fighter's thing much better than it does.


I also need a ranger fix, it seems. Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) is pretty well regarded.

Scout is also good in my experience.

You could also give Totemists the Ranger's Favored Enemy and Track, and they'd still be T3.

[Network]

Holes: I'd like to see a tier 3 fighter fix which does not mean 'slap some maneuvers on it'. So that I can have both a Warblade and a Fighter as distinct classes.
Take a fighter, give 1 bonus feat/level, slap some Book of Iron Might maneuvers on it. There, you have it.

Allowing free-form maneuvers, BoIM-style, with some limitations added in (for example, "sum of penalties cannot exceed BAB, before applying drawback"). could push any full-BAB class up a tier, really. Including the ToB classes. Limiting it to some classes would only change the tier of these classes, of course.

[Zireael]

Why? The Fighter is among the most boring classes in the game. Duskblade, Crusader, Warblade, and Psywar do the Fighter's thing much better than it does.

This thread is mostly for my OGL roguelike class design - and I want one class that has 'bash the enemy' as modus operandi, no frills, for those players that don't want activable abilities for various reasons.

The duskblade has magic, and I already have a version of the Pathfinder magus drafted up. The Pathfinder (OGL) version of the Warblade will also be coming, as will the Psychic Warrior. But they all rely on activable stuff (magic/maneuvers/psionics).

@ Network: Don't have access to Book of Iron Might, unfortunately. Mind summing up how they work? Like Pathfinder maneuvers?

[Nifft]

This thread is mostly for my OGL roguelike class design - and I want one class that has 'bash the enemy' as modus operandi, no frills, for those players that don't want activable abilities for various reasons. Oh, if it's for a Roguelike game, then balance between classes isn't necessary. Hell, for a Roguelike game, having underpowered challenge classes (Fighter, Expert, Aristocrat) could be a bonus, since winning with those is more of an achievement.

IMHO some kind of "recharge" Barbarian might be even more straightforward -- IIRC there's a alternate class feature whereby the Barbarian gets all the Rage bonuses whenever he's under 50% max HP, and suffers no fatigue for that rage. That would be very straight-forward, very n00b friendly, has nothing to voluntarily activate, and also it's not a Fighter. ;)

In contrast, a Fighter has tons of stuff to activate -- "What's my optimal Power Attack? Should I use a regular attack or Improved Sunder? Do I use Expertise here?" -- although most of it is awful, it still requires activation.

[Network]

@ Network: Don't have access to Book of Iron Might, unfortunately. Mind summing up how they work? Like Pathfinder maneuvers?

Not at all. They are closer to fighting defensively; you take a penalty to your attack roll in exchange for some other benefit. You can also take drawbacks that reduce the attack roll penalty.

For example, you can take a -30 penalty to your attack roll to stun the target for 1 round on a successful attack. You can then reduce the penalty by 10 by allowing all enemies that threaten you to make an attack of opportunity, and by another 10 by having the maneuver's effect reflected on yourself (ie. by being stunned for 1 round after the attack).

The system is modular, so if you want to inflict a -2 penalty to Constitution on your opponent without dealing damage, you can do that for a -15 penalty (-20, +5 from not dealing damage). There's no clause saying you can't reduce an ability score to 0, so you can kill creatures this way. And you can use it with any weapon.

None of the maneuver effects cause instant defeat or death, but most of the other stuff people care about in combat (ability score penalty, blindness, dazing, deafness, etc.) are in there. There is also a clause stating a 20 on the attack roll is not an automatic success if you are using maneuvers. I would recommend putting a cap on the attack roll penalty (thinking about it, 1.5 times BAB/level is probably better than 1 time), so the higher-level effects can't be used by a low-level PC with a ridiculous attack modifier, but that's just a suggestion. The ability to invent maneuvers on the spot is the best thing in the book, and a good reason to check it out.

Edit: If it's for a video game, nplayers probably won't have the time to make new maneuvers in the middle of combat. Make a sort of menu, allowing the player to select the effects and drawbacks of the maneuvers, then save them for when he's in battle so the saved maneuver is only a click away when he needs to use it.

[Zireael]

Oh, if it's for a Roguelike game, then balance between classes isn't necessary. Hell, for a Roguelike game, having underpowered challenge classes (Fighter, Expert, Aristocrat) could be a bonus, since winning with those is more of an achievement.

IMHO some kind of "recharge" Barbarian might be even more straightforward -- IIRC there's a alternate class feature whereby the Barbarian gets all the Rage bonuses whenever he's under 50% max HP, and suffers no fatigue for that rage. That would be very straight-forward, very n00b friendly, has nothing to voluntarily activate, and also it's not a Fighter. ;)

In contrast, a Fighter has tons of stuff to activate -- "What's my optimal Power Attack? Should I use a regular attack or Improved Sunder? Do I use Expertise here?" -- although most of it is awful, it still requires activation.

Thanks for the Barbarian idea - I'll have a look for that feature, and even if, I'll just whip something up.

The core fighter has only the "bonus feat bonus feat FEAAT RAAGH!" as a class feature, nothing else, and the feats (see below) can be taken by just anyone.
As for awful feats like PA or Expertise, I'm seriously considering going the M&M route and just making them attack options available to anyone sans the feat cost.

For the fighter, I spotted this tweak: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13498.0
Except for Crack Shell, it's abilities are passive.

@ Network: Thanks A LOT.

[Hanuman]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192596-The-Warrior-s-Way-Rebalancing-Blade-and-Bow

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war

Generally this makes people happy, enjoy.

Check out my Quorin class for a T3 shapeshifter, if you see anything that needs adding or changing right click to comment.

[Elandris Kajar]

Grod's fixed list casters are awesome and are supposed to be t 3.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?317861-Fixed-List-Caster-Project-%283-5%29&p=16545265#post16545265

[dspeyer]

If you follow the "all my homebrew" link in my signature, there's a section of tier 3 conversions.