Why a high level Wizard...

[NevinPL]

...would hire a lower level adventures for a job, when he probably could do it better, and faster (sans: "it's beneath him", "he doesn't have the time", or "he likes ordering people around) ?

[AvatarVecna]

The same reason anybody competent delegates tasks to somebody less competent: the less competent party is still competent enough to complete the task, and the more competent person can complete harder tasks. Unless the wizard in question can literally do all the tasks at the same time, there's a reason to delegate.

In LoTR canon, Gandalf is basically a member of some superman-esque angel race who can wipe out armies with a thought, but he doesn't because if he does that and breaks the rules binding the super-angels, then Saruman can do it too. Maybe something similar is going on here, where if the powerful wizard makes a move himself, his powerful opponents will swoop in and take advantage of his wandering attention?

[137beth]

Could you give an example? There isn't much of an in-world reason. A high level wizard would be more likely to send an ice assasin to do a task the wizard didn't want to do themself.

[Nifft]

1 - Training young Adventurers is one cheap & easy way for the (secretly evil) Wizard to get level-appropriate bundles of XP to deliver themselves to his door for harvesting.

2 - The Prophecy. Yeah, the one with dragons or stars or some kind of doom.

3 - If he leaves his tower, his Dragon Cohort and his regular Cohort will fight. Again.

4 - He's so old he has to prepare spells the 1e way, and that eats up literally days of time between outings. These whippersnappers can prepare a day's worth of spells in under an hour. Let them do the busy-work.

5 - While the adventurers are away, he can date that one adventurer's younger sister.

[The Insanity]

The same reason anything else happens in a game: the DM needed him to.

[Vhaidara]

Well, you basically rules out the reasons why he does.

The guy who employs my players does it because he observes them via super-scrying and finds it amusing to watch. It's why he was able to cancel his cable service.

[Killer Angel]

Because the wizard got better things to do.
why should I go to the grocery, if I can send someone else, while I enjoy more interesting (and productive) matters?

[137beth]

Because the wizard got better things to do.
why should I go to the grocery, if I can send someone else, while I enjoy more interesting (and productive) matters?

But why send a low-level adventurer who you can't control, instead of a construct/undead/simulacron/ice assassin/called creature that you can control and is more powerful?

[KingSmitty]

If they die doing your bidding you don't have to pay them, where your iron golem costs a lot to replace.

[atomicwaffle]

although powerful, wizards aren't omniscient. They don't know everything. They don't know what traps monsters or spells are guarding the thingamajig. Adventurers LINE UP to be put in harms way for reward. A high level wizard did that, having crap HP being surrounded by meaty damage sponges and trap springers. He did that S*** once, he ain't gonna do it again.

Even if he could, he doesn't want to. ANY WIZARD who has gone from low level to high level knows what its like. Its traumatic. S*** rolls down hill.

[HalfQuart]

Plausible deniability? You might get hired to do something that would be costly to the wizard if he/she was associated with it publicly.

Risk avoidance? Sure, Wizards are ultra-powerful and flexible, but there are always risks associated with any action -- you never know when the other high-level wizards are laying a trap for you... so hire some lower level adventurers to either take care of it or act as a decoy to set off the trap.

[Spore]

But why send a low-level adventurer who you can't control, instead of a construct/undead/simulacron/ice assassin/called creature that you can control and is more powerful?

Sentient beings cope better with changed circumstances or unclear objectives.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Sure, in my kitchen I can work the line faster than most people. I'm tired of doing it. So I hire someone who's not as good as I am but they're good enough and I don't have to burn myself as much.

[AvatarVecna]

although powerful, wizards aren't omniscient.

Don't you know that all higher level wizards are fully optimized and essentially omniscient?

[Socratov]

Ok, I'm gonna be paraphrasing another forumite on the nature of high level wizards:

they are a bunch of nasty, extremely paranoid, of maternal fornicators. A wizard doesn't get to be lvl 20 by sitting jolly in a guild or singing songs while adventuring, by lvl 20 he is one of the , if not the single most paranoid person on pretty much that side of the globe. And you think he will direct precious resources like spells and power to simple tasks?

Oh nonononononono. At this lvl he will hav emore then enough treasures, items, unseen familiras to produce exactly what someone else needs to make someone else do it. Let them spend their precious resources on adventuring while he sits high and mighty in his fortress of immortality and untouchability. Wolves howl, monks suck, and wizards hate doing stuff if they can have someone else do it for them. Not even mentioning the opportunitycost. The high level wizard probably has stuff to do (like, research a spell, or make that doomsday device to take everything with him while he is being attacked beyondhis means) so why waste his time doing stuff like fetching things or dispensing with pesky fiends? Nope, better to have someone else fix that while he sits comfortably in his tower, sipping a martini. All that for the low-low price of 5 gold and a party... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HbkYV5ZaY). Practically a pittance.

[atomicwaffle]

Don't you know that all higher level wizards are fully optimized and essentially omniscient?

Scrying, True Seeing, Greater Invisibility, and Greater Teleport mean you will run out of spell slots (or money for item creation) EVENTUALLY...

[AvatarVecna]

Scrying, True Seeing, Greater Invisibility, and Greater Teleport mean you will run out of spell slots (or money for item creation) EVENTUALLY...

Depends on how you define "fully optimized". A Muscle Wizard has approx. infinite spells at every level, as does a Vermin Lord abusing Hivemind, as does anybody using a CoI to chain-gate efreeti in for free no-limit wishes. And even if you don't go one of the "infinite everything" routes, there's still plenty of ways to increase your Intelligence for bonus spells, or to recover spells quickly. And even beyond straight up divinations, a wizard can just set up permanent defenses far in advance that defend against virtually everything, and then scry for the few things they can't permanently defend against.

[Socratov]

Depends on how you define "fully optimized". A Muscle Wizard has approx. infinite spells at every level, as does a Vermin Lord abusing Hivemind, as does anybody using a CoI to chain-gate efreeti in for free no-limit wishes. And even if you don't go one of the "infinite everything" routes, there's still plenty of ways to increase your Intelligence for bonus spells, or to recover spells quickly. And even beyond straight up divinations, a wizard can just set up permanent defenses far in advance that defend against virtually everything, and then scry for the few things they can't permanently defend against.

even then, why make the effort when a couple of gold will do the trick in such a way that you don't need to go to such lengths. 'They' will get whatever it is you need, 'you' can do whatever it is you're doing these days.

[Silva Stormrage]

Scrying, True Seeing, Greater Invisibility, and Greater Teleport mean you will run out of spell slots (or money for item creation) EVENTUALLY...

If you are a high level wizard and you are crafting items I hope you can actually make a profit out of it... using one of the many infinite craft XP techniques etc.

[NevinPL]

Thank you.
Some ideas were very nice, one even made me chuckle, and one is a nice idea for a quest itself.
And I loved the "maternal fornicators" euphemism.

[Inevitability]

I have often seen high-level players employ commoners or starving kobolds or whatever to perform some simple tasks for them. I think that behavior is a combination of players not wanting to spend time on easy tasks and just the feeling of power that comes from having a small legion of servants.

Some other options:

1. The wizard is paranoid. Enemies are everywhere, and the only safe place is his tower.

2. The adventurers are there as a distraction. While they assault the front gate of Count Evilbeard's keep, he simply 'ports in and grabs the MacGuffin.

3. The mission is something forbidden or immoral, and the wizard wants to avoid being seen doing it.

4. The mission is a trap, and the wizard just wants to get the adventurers away from any witnesses and safe places.

[Drascin]

But why send a low-level adventurer who you can't control, instead of a construct/undead/simulacron/ice assassin/called creature that you can control and is more powerful?

Because constructs cost a ****load of money and a pack of experience to build?

A low level adventurer will go risk death for a thousand gold pieces. A somewhat decent golem will cost you a minimum of like 50k gold pieces to create, to say nothing of the time and effort.

Plus living minions are a lot more practical. If things go weird they can improvise. Sending constructs to do any non-routine work is just asking for disaster.

Honestly, any wizard worth his salt should have made a point have minions beyond constructs and the like, or befriending (or appearing to befriend) some plucky up-and-coming adventurers. Having actual thinking people loyal to you is so very useful.

[Crake]

I think the question becomes "How high level?" There does reach a point where a wizard would simply not require outsourcing help, but getting to that point usually requires a fair bit. If it's something like a 12th level wizard, sure he could planar bind his help, but outsiders don't exactly like being ordered around, so that's a good way to make a lot of enemies. So instead, hire some adventurers. But a level 17 wizard on the other hand, yeah, for him, time and money are an infinite resource, making hiring adventurers almost completely pointless. So I suppose, if you're happy with making the wizard hiring the party lower level by a bit, then it suddenly becomes plausible.

In my homebrew campaign (and i believe in a fair few others), when wizards hit that line in the setting, they tend to sequester themselves away from the more mundane folk, only really conferring with the others in the 0.00001% club. As they say, it's lonely at the top.

[Vaz]

Culling the weak, and training his XP packages which then deliver themselves to his door like a take away delivery boy.

Also, gives casters access to unique trinkets and odds and sods, or random little spells that they have either developed on their own or found in a scroll that the wizard just won't have conceived of.

[Heatwizard]

The idea that comes to mind for me is that he tried doing it himself, but it didn't work. The circumstances around the errand play to some kind of Achilles's heel. Or there's a sentry or rival at the target who's prepared for the wizard's usual tricks, and stepping into town to find some plucky misfits with a different approach is the first thing he thinks of to shake up the equation. The nice thing about an explanation like this is that your handler isn't automatically talking down to them, and it gives your players a bit of negotiating power.

[sovin_ndore]

Retirement would be my first choice. You are not very retired if you still have to go adventure. And maybe he actually wants to see other people learn the game he loves... like a pro sports player working with kids at a sports camp. He could play the game for them, he could probably school the whole other team with one hand tied behind his back (it only requires one hand for casting anyhow), but they would not learn anything if he does that.

[Aergoth]

The reason any well equipped group would send someone of less skill to accomplish the task, it requires less expenditure of their resources for roughly the same return.

Resources in this case is literally anything the wizard has at their disposal: Spell slots, time, XP, GP, material objects. The time one is probably the most important, because what else could the wizard be doing? Where could that ice assassin be going, could he be spending his time scribing even more spells into his book?

If the wizard doesn't want to be seen as being responsible, especially if he can use disguise, illusions and other magic to create perfect cut-outs between him and the adventurer catspaws he's hiring. Essentially so the wizard can disguise his hand in things.

The wizard in his tower is one of those tropes that exists for a reason in games like this. Given adequate time to prepare, the wizard is said to be mostly unkillable (short of being better prepared or shenanigans). So if he can, as mentioned, spend 100 gp and pay a bar tab to get someone to do something that would require him to create a construct or expend a spell slot (remember the cost of hiring casters!) it is more efficient for him to do so. It's not paranoia when everyone is out to get you, and you don't get to be a high level character without attracting some kind of attention.

A bunch of no name adventurers die? Cool, let's go find some more.

And last but not least, the wizard can probably get things done cheap, fast or well, pick two. Cheap and Fast may involve teleporting mindless minions to do the work. Fast and Well probably involves expenditure of greater resources (planar bindings, the wizard himself) to accomplish to goal as precisely and as quickly as desired, or simply throwing more and more resources at something to increase the speed at which it is accomplished (it takes 2 guys 10 minutes to dig a hole so does it take 4 guys 5 minutes to dig a hole of the same size?). The hiring adventurers option most likely constitutes cheap and well.

[Telonius]

Perhaps he's heavily invested in the Orphanage Repair business.

[Socratov]

The reason any well equipped group would send someone of less skill to accomplish the task, it requires less expenditure of their resources for roughly the same return.

Resources in this case is literally anything the wizard has at their disposal: Spell slots, time, XP, GP, material objects. The time one is probably the most important, because what else could the wizard be doing? Where could that ice assassin be going, could he be spending his time scribing even more spells into his book?

If the wizard doesn't want to be seen as being responsible, especially if he can use disguise, illusions and other magic to create perfect cut-outs between him and the adventurer catspaws he's hiring. Essentially so the wizard can disguise his hand in things.

The wizard in his tower is one of those tropes that exists for a reason in games like this. Given adequate time to prepare, the wizard is said to be mostly unkillable (short of being better prepared or shenanigans). So if he can, as mentioned, spend 100 gp and pay a bar tab to get someone to do something that would require him to create a construct or expend a spell slot (remember the cost of hiring casters!) it is more efficient for him to do so. It's not paranoia when everyone is out to get you, and you don't get to be a high level character without attracting some kind of attention.

A bunch of no name adventurers die? Cool, let's go find some more.

And last but not least, the wizard can probably get things done cheap, fast or well, pick two. Cheap and Fast may involve teleporting mindless minions to do the work. Fast and Well probably involves expenditure of greater resources (planar bindings, the wizard himself) to accomplish to goal as precisely and as quickly as desired, or simply throwing more and more resources at something to increase the speed at which it is accomplished (it takes 2 guys 10 minutes to dig a hole so does it take 4 guys 5 minutes to dig a hole of the same size?). The hiring adventurers option most likely constitutes cheap and well.

It is still paranoia, just rooted in some very real threat...

[ekarney]

But why send a low-level adventurer who you can't control, instead of a construct/undead/simulacron/ice assassin/called creature that you can control and is more powerful?

He doesn't have craft construct.

He's good aligned.

He needs those 7th level spell slots for different things. Like limited wish, scrying and teleporting. Also it's in his other spellbook. The one that ended up the the place and that last group he sent after it hasn't come back.

Because that's several thousand gp that can be spent on better things. Like funny hats. Also he needs a thing done that doesn't involve killing a certain person. Also adventurers repair themselves for the most part, and it's usually cheaper than 100gp a hit point. Also that's a 9th level spell slot. And at least 8 hours. When you're 168 you need every hour available to you! time is precious!

[Flickerdart]

Lots of people have mentioned that the wizard can't be everywhere at once, and needs to delegate tasks to sufficiently competent adventurers.

But the more important issue is that the adventurers can't be everywhere at once. By providing them with employment, the wizard is keeping them busy, ingratiating them with himself, which prevents other rival wizards from soliciting their help against him, and prevents the adventurers from burning the wizard's favourite local tavern to the ground.

And then one day when the wizard's meddling brings a cosmic horror down on everybody, he's got a high level adventuring party under his thumb, probably with their own wizard. It pays to invest in wizard allies.

[Socratov]

Lots of people have mentioned that the wizard can't be everywhere at once, and needs to delegate tasks to sufficiently competent adventurers.

But the more important issue is that the adventurers can't be everywhere at once. By providing them with employment, the wizard is keeping them busy, ingratiating them with himself, which prevents other rival wizards from soliciting their help against him, and prevents the adventurers from burning the wizard's favourite local tavern to the ground.

And then one day when the wizard's meddling brings a cosmic horror down on everybody, he's got a high level adventuring party under his thumb, probably with their own wizard. It pays to invest in wizard allies.

Even if only just for testing purposes or spell gathering purposes...

[Segev]

Why does Donalt Trump (who at least BELIEVES he is the best managerial mind in the world) hire people to manage his various business interests for him?

Why do you order pizza to have it delivered, rather than getting carry-out?

[Socratov]

Why does Donalt TrumpRichard Branson (whom the world at least BELIEVES he is the best managerial mind in the world) hire people to manage his various business interests for him?

Why do you order pizza to have it delivered, rather than getting carry-out?
alterations mine (and bolded or stricken through)
Let's use a more realistic example, shall we?

[Segev]

alterations mine (and bolded or stricken through)
Let's use a more realistic example, shall we?

Never heard of Mr. Branson, but if he makes the example work better in your head, go ahead and use him. It is NOT my intent to derail this thread with politics or other personal opinions about real-world figures.

[Nifft]

Just FYI, I started a "101 reasons" thread based on this premise, just one forum down...
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?436440-101-Reasons-Why-a-High-Level-Wizard-Sends-YOU-On-This-Quest

Answers both serious and silly are welcome in that thread.

[Socratov]

Never heard of Mr. Branson, but if he makes the example work better in your head, go ahead and use him. It is NOT my intent to derail this thread with politics or other personal opinions about real-world figures.

Oh please, I would never dream of derailing the thread with politics, that would be both rude and against the rules (and thus ungentlemanly). I'm merely referencing business. For your information (with purely educative intentions), Sir Richard Branson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson) is the man behind Virgin in any and all of its forms and incarnations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Group). Quite a nice guy, alot more likeable then Donald Trump (but then who isn't) and certainly a distinguished and competent entrepreneur and businessman.

[Flickerdart]

I had a thought.

The premise of this thread is technically false - while it is commonly known that powerful wizards give out quests to adventurers, there is no requirement for the wizard to be high level. Many wizards wield either political/social power beyond their spellcasting, or simply have the ability to craft powerful items they can offer adventurers in exchange for tasks.

[Tvtyrant]

Building golems takes lifeforce/experience away in game, and while we think thoughtbottles and liquid agony are perfectly fine ways to do things a real wizard might not want to take weeks making nesting dolls of thoughtbottles (which presumably hurt or have noticeable effects on the user), or torturing pleasure out of people they have chained up in their basement. They might not feel comfortable manipulating outsiders with a combination of beatings and curses to obey them, or raising up horrific undead monsters to do their bidding. A real wizard might balk at the very idea of chaining an elemental to an object for all eternity to protect a small village from some kobolds when the local bandit/adventurers can be paid less to do it and doesn't require violating a random eternal being.

A lot of the things D&D players find normal are in fact awful things to be involved with on a daily basis, and the local level 14 wizard might not want to do them. Heck, think of Tippy's buildings. These are famously made of fully sentient ice assassins, so each brick is a self aware being caught in an eternal deprivation chamber awaiting the instructions of their master.