Fear The Walking Dead

[Pex]

Finally! The zombie apocalypse story I always wanted but never got before**. Finally we see the apocalypse from the beginning. Shaun of the Dead came close. We do see it initially start, but the next day they go right into apocalypse mode. Here they're purposely taking their time. They throw in false scares because they know we know what's going on, but we do get a couple of actual scares. As the series progresses we'll be seeing the apocalypse grow. In addition, this will take place in a city, not a house in the middle of nowhere. We see the world transition into the zombie apocalypse world we're accustomed too.

We're not given a cause. I don't think we'll be told. We got some explanation at the end of the first season of The Walking Dead, but I suppose not knowing exactly is part of the lore. The original Night of the Living Dead did heavily hint it was from a returning space probe. We might get something, and while I would like to have a concrete explanation I don't absolutely need one. I'm happy enough to get the apocalypse from the true beginning taking place in a city.

**I suppose, technically, the first Resident Evil movie does count with a thief purposely exposing the biological warfare virus Umbrella Corporation created with the Computer killing everyone trying to contain the outbreak.

[Eldan]

Have you seen The Strain? That sorta, kinda fits too. I mean, the main character is head of the centre for disease control. Now, the zombies are technically vampires, but most of them seem utterly mindless and more zombielike. It start out with a patient zero, an attempt at quarantine, which is sabotaged and then an attempt to at least keep it within New York.
The first few episodes were rather good, then I thought it went rather downhill.

[The Glyphstone]

So I've got some questions about the whole premise, or at least what's in the pilot that I've read about.


If I remember correctly, it's part of WD canon that in the show's setting, the Romero movies never existed; there are no zombies in popular culture, only the drugged 'zombi' of Haitian Voodoo. But in FTWD, the initial reports of zombies/reanimated corpses are apparently dismissed as hoaxes...if zombies don't exist in-universe, what do people think these are hoaxes of? The thing that is supposedly being hoaxed isn't supposed to exist as a concept.

[t209]

So I've got some questions about the whole premise, or at least what's in the pilot that I've read about.


If I remember correctly, it's part of WD canon that in the show's setting, the Romero movies never existed; there are no zombies in popular culture, only the drugged 'zombi' of Haitian Voodoo. But in FTWD, the initial reports of zombies/reanimated corpses are apparently dismissed as hoaxes...if zombies don't exist in-universe, what do people think these are hoaxes of? The thing that is supposedly being hoaxed isn't supposed to exist as a concept.
Well, there could be other forms of reanimated corpses, like Deadman, Drax, etc.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I've always wanted to see something like this from the start. But speaking as someone who's tried to do that (see below), I can understand why so many people just totally skip straight to the aftermath/status-quo survivalism stage of the setting.

[Pex]

So far the only character stereotype we have for certain is The Stupid, the Son. Uncooperative, won't listen, just does whatever the heck he wants and makes things worse. Dad is developing into Hero and Mom has potential of being Kick-Ass Woman. It's still early they might do gender reversal where Mom is Hero and Dad is Sidekick. I like we're seeing the characters grow into the roles. It's part of the premise of watching the apocalypse develop. As of now Daughter could become either Catatonic Girl or another Stupid. Typical rebellious teenager, she's not a lost cause yet. If she truly believes her brother is Stupid, she'll take his example and not be like him to develop into Kick-Ass Girl once she understands what's going on.

[The Glyphstone]

I've always wanted to see something like this from the start. But speaking as someone who's tried to do that (see below), I can understand why so many people just totally skip straight to the aftermath/status-quo survivalism stage of the setting.

Probably because as technology marches on and the world becomes more socially interconnected, the necessary tropes to kick off a proper zombie apocalypse require increasingly absurd levels of suspension of disbelief. Far simpler to simply handwave the whole apocalypse itself and focus on the aftermath with its potential for small-scale, personal human drama.

[Pex]

Probably because as technology marches on and the world becomes more socially interconnected, the necessary tropes to kick off a proper zombie apocalypse require increasingly absurd levels of suspension of disbelief. Far simpler to simply handwave the whole apocalypse itself and focus on the aftermath with its potential for small-scale, personal human drama.

Also, it costs too much money to pay all the extras necessary when filming a city population.

[The Glyphstone]

Also, it costs too much money to pay all the extras necessary when filming a city population.

True. So both storytelling and budget limitations are working against the idea here, when it's usually one or the other (and usually budget).

[BeerMug Paladin]

Probably because as technology marches on and the world becomes more socially interconnected, the necessary tropes to kick off a proper zombie apocalypse require increasingly absurd levels of suspension of disbelief. Far simpler to simply handwave the whole apocalypse itself and focus on the aftermath with its potential for small-scale, personal human drama.

That is more or less my thinking as well. Or it requires something sufficiently strange to be added to the zombie scenario to make them more deadly and less of a mook level threat. (Pontypool had a good mechanic for upscaling the nature of the threat.) But the more different you make the zombies, the more risk you run of alienating your potential audience.

It's hard to see how normal human ingenuity that allows people to overcome difficult challenges would outright fail against a (laughable) threat like a zombie outbreak. Someone whose task would be to imagine how a complete collapse might come about, then portray it in a way that doesn't break suspension of disbelief would have quite a difficult task on their hands.

[lt_murgen]

Someone whose task would be to imagine how a complete collapse might come about, then portray it in a way that doesn't break suspension of disbelief would have quite a difficult task on their hands.

But you do have some powerful things working in your favor. First, they have already established that everyone is infected. So every accident, every murder, every suicide has the potential to become a zombie. Second, with no Romero movies, the likelyhood of moving from "seriously ill member of my family" to "shambling murder-eater out to get me" can be shown to be difficult - HAS been shown to be difficult. Then throw in the double-punch of quarantine by force and inability to find a cure. Paranoia will grip large segments of the community who have reasons to fear the police and/or the government.

The tricky part is not developing a critical mass of zombies that could break out and wreak havoc (say, the first few weeks). It is that next step, between breakout and becoming an apocalyptic event, that is tough. In my opinion, that is where the movies always fail. Humans are very good and very creative at killing on another. Turning that on the shambling horde would end the threat.

Sadly, I think the new show is starting too early to really get into that second part.

[Pex]

The book World War Z handled it well - the initial outbreak, how it spreads, why the world failed to stop it, the panic, the apocalypse, and something new*, victory in ending it. It's easier in novel form since it's just words on the page. There's no cost for special effects, actors, or key grips. The movie didn't fail, but as it strayed from the book it lost some of the novel fan base. With The Walking Dead having become a big hit** the budget is there to take a more involved approach to pay for the special effects, actors, and key grips necessary to have an outbreak happen in a city.


*Technically Night of the Living Dead ended in victory it but the ironic ending and movie popularity demanded a sequel. The sequel was itself a hit, thus establishing the zombie apocalypse.

**I still remember way back when at a sci-fi convention with the comic was just starting out, and Robert Kirkman was sitting at a dealer's room table to promote the comic. There was some interest but not a big crowd. At the time I didn't think a zombie apocalypse comic strip could become so popular to gather interest to become a tv show. If only I bought a comic and had him autograph it then how valuable that would be now. :smallyuk:

[The Glyphstone]

And even WWZ had to throw some major Idiot Balls into the hands of the humans a few times- Yonkers, most notably. Still, as you said, it's still one of the few examples of a believable zombie apocalypse scenario, in part because eventually humans win and rebuild civilization.

The movie, on the other hand, didn't so much stray from the book as run screaming in the opposite direction. The two had nothing in common but the name, not even the type of zombies they used.

[Traab]

I think there are really two big things that have to happen to make a zombie apocalypse remotely possible.

1) Fast zombies/fast infection. Shamblers are never, and would never, be a world ending threat, unless literally every dead body from all of history reformed and reanimated at the exact same moment. Fast zombies with a equally fast infection rate has the potential to get out of control.

2) Worldwide simultaneous outbreak. It has to happen everywhere at once for even a sprinter outbreak to threaten the world. Too many places to guard, too many swarms to wipe out. For every city that could be reasonably sealed off contained and threat wiped out, there would be 5 where there werent any troops to do the containing, allowing it to spread. Even if eventually the military held together and managed to wipe out the main zombie threat, chances are the world population would have dropped massively.

In fact, that could make for an interesting show. A worldwide sprinter outbreak. The military is communicating on all frequencies that it is coming, but they cant save everywhere at once, so people are trying to hold out till the military can get there, or trying to evacuate to a location where the army currently is, and everything is just chaos. Zombies everywhere, they are fast, they are mean, and they are killing people. You have rambo types trying to shoot everything that doesnt speak, people trying to fort up and deal with a crush of zombies breaking down their doors, and our main characters stuck in this mess several cities down on the priority list, trying to hold out till the cavalry can come in.

[Hopeless]

Can't help wondering what if burning the remains merely causes the source of the infection to go airborne?

Imagine inverting some of the zombie tropes so it makes knowing about zombie movies or mythology an actually dangerous hindrance since they have no one to correct their misunderstanding about what's going on!

For example the infection craves a fresh blood supply something as simple as a blood transfusion keeps the infected person from degenerating both physically and mentally but they're still infected.

CCDC can only deal with threats of this sort if they're able to identify it, what if they can't?

Sorry I know wrong thread for this!

[Dienekes]

Can't help wondering what if burning the remains merely causes the source of the infection to go airborne?

Imagine inverting some of the zombie tropes so it makes knowing about zombie movies or mythology an actually dangerous hindrance since they have no one to correct their misunderstanding about what's going on!

For example the infection craves a fresh blood supply something as simple as a blood transfusion keeps the infected person from degenerating both physically and mentally but they're still infected.

CCDC can only deal with threats of this sort if they're able to identify it, what if they can't?

Sorry I know wrong thread for this!

There was once a movie I saw, I can't remember what it was, but the characters new basic zombie facts. Which lead to the great scene where they found out that destroying the brain did absolutely nothing.

Anyway, on the show. Interesting concept, but much like Walking Dead, I really don't care about this family and their problems. The only character I found interesting was the drug pusher who had everyone fooled that he had gone straight. But even that may just be a holdover from my love of crime shows like The Wire, Sopranos, and Boardwalk Empire.

[Darth Ultron]

I thought the show was horrible. But, sigh, guess I'll give it a couple more episodes...only a pathetic five more in the first season.

I thought the idea was to show how/why/where the zombies came from. But sadly it just just horrible inner city urban drama full of dull characters and they tossed in a random zombie. So the zombies will just ''come out of nowhere'' and the focus will be stuck on the ''nobody'' characters.

It is like they just took the Walking Dead plot, and did it the worst way possible. Like remember when Rick woke up on like day 25 after the Apocalypse and we got right to the end of the world and zombies? Remember how he met characters after zombie day? But this show wants to waste just about all it's run time trying to get us to ''care'' about all the new horrible urban inner city characters, you know so we will ''care'' if a zombie tries to eat them. But I dislike all the characters. I hope drug boy homeless loser gets eaten real soon. And just don't care about anyone else.

Sure looks like they are going in the wrong direction.....

[Olinser]

I think there are really two big things that have to happen to make a zombie apocalypse remotely possible.

1) Fast zombies/fast infection. Shamblers are never, and would never, be a world ending threat, unless literally every dead body from all of history reformed and reanimated at the exact same moment. Fast zombies with a equally fast infection rate has the potential to get out of control.

2) Worldwide simultaneous outbreak. It has to happen everywhere at once for even a sprinter outbreak to threaten the world. Too many places to guard, too many swarms to wipe out. For every city that could be reasonably sealed off contained and threat wiped out, there would be 5 where there werent any troops to do the containing, allowing it to spread. Even if eventually the military held together and managed to wipe out the main zombie threat, chances are the world population would have dropped massively.

In fact, that could make for an interesting show. A worldwide sprinter outbreak. The military is communicating on all frequencies that it is coming, but they cant save everywhere at once, so people are trying to hold out till the military can get there, or trying to evacuate to a location where the army currently is, and everything is just chaos. Zombies everywhere, they are fast, they are mean, and they are killing people. You have rambo types trying to shoot everything that doesnt speak, people trying to fort up and deal with a crush of zombies breaking down their doors, and our main characters stuck in this mess several cities down on the priority list, trying to hold out till the cavalry can come in.

Shamblers WOULD be an apocalypse threat if it was a simultaneous world outbreak. Do you have any idea how many people would die before they even realized what was going on? Even once they realized what was going on, militaries have an absolutely laughable mobilization time against a domestic threat they didn't see coming, and cops simply don't have the firepower to deal with more than a few at a time.

In something like The Walking Dead, where the Zombie Infection explicitly turns ANYBODY that dies, every single city on the globe would have had a simultaneous outbreak. Zombies don't have to be that fast to walk onto the ground floor of buildings. Now people have no way out - every one of them inside is going to turn, and then the killball starts. Major cities would be nearly completely turned mere hours after a shambler outbreak as they spread from building to building and turned thousands at a time.

[Killer Angel]

And even WWZ had to throw some major Idiot Balls into the hands of the humans a few times- Yonkers, most notably.

The fact is that a single Yonkers is perfectly believable (military history is full of "Idiot Balls", due to overconfidence and so on), but it's much harder to extend it on a world wide scale.

[Traab]

Shamblers WOULD be an apocalypse threat if it was a simultaneous world outbreak. Do you have any idea how many people would die before they even realized what was going on? Even once they realized what was going on, militaries have an absolutely laughable mobilization time against a domestic threat they didn't see coming, and cops simply don't have the firepower to deal with more than a few at a time.

In something like The Walking Dead, where the Zombie Infection explicitly turns ANYBODY that dies, every single city on the globe would have had a simultaneous outbreak. Zombies don't have to be that fast to walk onto the ground floor of buildings. Now people have no way out - every one of them inside is going to turn, and then the killball starts. Major cities would be nearly completely turned mere hours after a shambler outbreak as they spread from building to building and turned thousands at a time.

Shamblers can be taken out by a teenager with a shovel. They are slow and ineffective at anything. A brisk walk can get you to safety from them. You literally have to start with a massive mob of them appearing out of nowhere for there to be any real danger of being trapped. There is a reason night of the living dead was threatening. Its because there was a large mob of them, and a small group of living trapped on an isolated farmstead. And that scary time lasted all of a night iirc, before the rest of the world got bored and wiped them out. There were news reports all night of the situation becoming more and more under control as armed posses were wiping out everything that shambled. They didnt even need the military, local cops and regular joes with hunting rifles cleared up the whole mess overnight. Thats the extent of a shambler threat. Yeah people would die, but not even close to the numbers of a sprinter swarm.

[The_Dodger]

I thought the show was horrible....

I thought the idea was to show how/why/where the zombies came from. But sadly it just just horrible inner city urban drama full of dull characters and they tossed in a random zombie. So the zombies will just ''come out of nowhere'' and the focus will be stuck on the ''nobody'' characters.

It is like they just took the Walking Dead plot, and did it the worst way possible. Like remember when Rick woke up on like day 25 after the Apocalypse and we got right to the end of the world and zombies? Remember how he met characters after zombie day? But this show wants to waste just about all it's run time trying to get us to ''care'' about all the new horrible urban inner city characters, you know so we will ''care'' if a zombie tries to eat them. But I dislike all the characters. I hope drug boy homeless loser gets eaten real soon. And just don't care about anyone else.

Sure looks like they are going in the wrong direction.....

Could not agree more.

I know it has only been one episode so far, but I could not care less about any of these characters. The druggy kid deserves to die, his mom is an idiot. His sister seems slightly smarter but suffers from the cliche annoying rebellious teenage angst. The step-dad is pathetic, trying to get everyone to like him, and his son is obnoxious. None of the side characters they introduced have enough personality to be worth watching.

The plot is terrible. It is nothing more than an urban drama with the zombie apocalypse thrown in as an after thought. I don't understand why people want to watch a zombie series where the zombies are a secondary consideration.

I like Walking Dead. I like watching a group of people trying to survive in a world with limited resources and little safety. I don't like watching stupid people in the regular world watch as crazy **** starts to happen and they just go "Duh..that's weird, guess I'll just ignore it and keep doing normal ****"

Maybe I sound bitter and I know I'm kind of ranting, but I just didn't find the pilot very interesting or engaging. I was bored, and I couldn't get attached to any of the characters. Maybe it will get better, and I intend to give it a chance, but I'm not holding out much hope.

[Sapphire Guard]

Shamblers and sprinters each have their flaws. Sprinters would destroy themselves fast, smashing into walls and falling over cliffs, tripping and trampling each other. Shamblers don't hunt down a threat quick enough. Neither is a global threat, not that many people die in most places, and you don't have to know what a zombie is to not want it to bite you.

[The Glyphstone]

Shamblers can be taken out by a teenager with a shovel. They are slow and ineffective at anything. A brisk walk can get you to safety from them. You literally have to start with a massive mob of them appearing out of nowhere for there to be any real danger of being trapped. There is a reason night of the living dead was threatening. Its because there was a large mob of them, and a small group of living trapped on an isolated farmstead. And that scary time lasted all of a night iirc, before the rest of the world got bored and wiped them out. There were news reports all night of the situation becoming more and more under control as armed posses were wiping out everything that shambled. They didnt even need the military, local cops and regular joes with hunting rifles cleared up the whole mess overnight. Thats the extent of a shambler threat. Yeah people would die, but not even close to the numbers of a sprinter swarm.

My all-time favorite zombie novel series is the Newsflesh trilogy, for reasons much like this. It starts with the exact premise of a world-wide infection that results in every single human being reanimating as a zombie on death, with the bonus that they start as 'sprinters' when fresh and degrade into 'shamblers' as their corpses deteriorate. But the story is only technically post-apocalypse, because humans win. Social media spreads the word, people recognize what is going on (George Romero is a canonized saint in-universe, I think), and world leaders/military forces don't get handed Idiot Balls in any fashion. The world takes a pasting initially, but we survive and go on, rebuilding our society and security protocols around the ever-present zombie threat.

[Rodin]

One of the better "how it happens" ones is Black Tide Rising by John Ringo. It has a few basic assumptions that I think are necessary.

1) The zombies are alive. This allows them to be sprinters and drastically slows the global response time as instead of wiping out the zombies when there are few the humans are quarantined instead (meaning capturing the zombies alive, which means more police/army getting bitten and infected.

2) The zombie virus is airborne and incredibly virulent, resulting in a base zombification rate of over 50% before you consider those that get bitten having a near 100% infection rate. This means that you don't get intact units of police and military - at least half of them are already down for the count, and you lose a significant further number from increased exposure to both the airborne virus and the bitey version from trying to fight zombies with tasers (at least until lethal force is authorized).

3) The zombie virus is genetically engineered and deliberately spread on a global scale simultaneously, both reducing the amount of time available to develop a vaccine but to also make it nigh impossible to keep up with the sheer number of infectees.

[The Glyphstone]

BTR is also good. I'd enjoy it a lot more than I already am if I didn't know it was inevitable that Ringo will get bored halfway through and start a new project, leaving the plot unfinished.

[Starbuck_II]

But you do have some powerful things working in your favor. First, they have already established that everyone is infected. So every accident, every murder, every suicide has the potential to become a zombie. Second, with no Romero movies, the likelyhood of moving from "seriously ill member of my family" to "shambling murder-eater out to get me" can be shown to be difficult - HAS been shown to be difficult. Then throw in the double-punch of quarantine by force and inability to find a cure. Paranoia will grip large segments of the community who have reasons to fear the police and/or the government.

The tricky part is not developing a critical mass of zombies that could break out and wreak havoc (say, the first few weeks). It is that next step, between breakout and becoming an apocalyptic event, that is tough. In my opinion, that is where the movies always fail. Humans are very good and very creative at killing on another. Turning that on the shambling horde would end the threat.

Sadly, I think the new show is starting too early to really get into that second part.

Well, lucky it isn't everyone yet.

As far as first episode shows it is the vaccines that are infecting people with zombification upon death.

So we caused the infection by forced vaccines for schools. Supposedly, the infection will go airborne later so everyone is infected like in comics.

[SaintRidley]

Well, lucky it isn't everyone yet.

As far as first episode shows it is the vaccines that are infecting people with zombification upon death.

So we caused the infection by forced vaccines for schools. Supposedly, the infection will go airborne later so everyone is infected like in comics.

You are way overthinking the principal's "Hope everyone got their flu vaccine" line. It's not caused by the vaccines. The cause is unknown (and will remain that way - Kirkman never intends to say). Everyone just thought it was a bad flu at first due to the fever and cough.

[Pex]

I'm glad Daughter did not leave the house. I knew she would try. The set-up was obvious. If she did she would have cemented her status as a Stupid. As with Dad's ex-wife and son, it is typical when the main character knows what's going on and is trying to help his loved ones, they become obstinate and refuse to listen. It can get frustrating at times. Ex-wife finally came around, but the son still has potential to do something absolutely stupid. Shopkeeper is the Jerk. It's a question if he remains so when he understands what's going on and/or their safe house is inevitably invaded. He's not a lost cause yet.

For clarification:

The Bad Guys - Jerk, Stupid, Catatonic Girl, Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community, The Donkey Cavity who just has to ruin it all.

Walking Dead example in order: Shane, Dale, First Season Carol, Governor, The Hunters and in theory Neegan next season

The Good Guys - Hero, Kick-Ass Woman, Sidekick, Cool Guy who gets killed. (The Cool Guy is as competent as the Hero and Hero will even follow his lead sometimes, but he's not the main protagonist and does get killed.)

Walking Dead example in order: Rick, Michonne, Glenn, T-Dog.

Daryl was Cool Guy but has survived long enough to become Hero. Carol snapped out of it and became Kick-Ass Woman, Hershel was Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community but reformed into Sidekick.

[MLai]

I've been out of the Walking Dead loop for a while. Got sidetracked and stalled at before the final showdown episode with the Governor.
I assume the show is over now? How much more do I have to watch from where I am now?

[Yora]

It seems Season 6 is starting next month. And apparently the executive producer said they already have plans up to Season 12.

[Thinker]

I'm glad Daughter did not leave the house. I knew she would try. The set-up was obvious. If she did she would have cemented her status as a Stupid. As with Dad's ex-wife and son, it is typical when the main character knows what's going on and is trying to help his loved ones, they become obstinate and refuse to listen. It can get frustrating at times. Ex-wife finally came around, but the son still has potential to do something absolutely stupid. Shopkeeper is the Jerk. It's a question if he remains so when he understands what's going on and/or their safe house is inevitably invaded. He's not a lost cause yet.

For clarification:

The Bad Guys - Jerk, Stupid, Catatonic Girl, Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community, The Donkey Cavity who just has to ruin it all.

Walking Dead example in order: Shane, Dale, First Season Carol, Governor, The Hunters and in theory Neegan next season

The Good Guys - Hero, Kick-Ass Woman, Sidekick, Cool Guy who gets killed. (The Cool Guy is as competent as the Hero and Hero will even follow his lead sometimes, but he's not the main protagonist and does get killed.)

Walking Dead example in order: Rick, Michonne, Glenn, T-Dog.

Daryl was Cool Guy but has survived long enough to become Hero. Carol snapped out of it and became Kick-Ass Woman, Hershel was Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community but reformed into Sidekick.

I don't mean any offense when I say this, though I know it could be taken that way, but it's a little bit jarring to read through your post with discourse replaced with TVTropes entries as shorthand.

[Pex]

I don't mean any offense when I say this, though I know it could be taken that way, but it's a little bit jarring to read through your post with discourse replaced with TVTropes entries as shorthand.

Almost all zombie apocalypse stories follow the same formula. The Walking Dead is no exception. Nothing wrong with formula if the story and acting is entertaining.

The ones so far I've seen break the mold are World War Z (novel), Warm Bodies, and Z Nation.

World War Z doesn't have a Group for the story to revolve around. We also read of the apocalypse from beginning to a victorious end.

Warm Bodies gives a cure and also a victorious ending.

Z Nation will go against trope sometimes, such as killing off the Hero, Cool Guy lives, Jerk showing signs of reform. There's an occasional uniqueness too, such as radioactive zombies and immunity to zombification.

[t209]

World War Z doesn't have a Group for the story to revolve around. We also read of the apocalypse from beginning to a victorious end.
That movie adaptation was really sad since it kinda ruined it with typical "family instead of people". I mean I get annoyed that they get the spotlight instead of larger context (like dad finding his son instead of starving refugees or 2012's annoying family while the writers never got the concept of "greater good"). Heck, even Last of Us game even showed spotlight of environment while focusing on groups (Like how the quarantine zones had revolts and other non-military zones).
That is not talking the wall part (So far, Attack on Titan had cannons mounted on the wall instead of leaving it as dud) or not being creative (find the cure instead of using noise to group the zombies and bombing them).
edit: I don't know but Warm Bodies was more like Promethean: The Created or other "people finding his humanity back or turn into monsters" rather than Twilight.

[Sapphire Guard]

The Resident Evil Game series has the best zombie apocalypse, IMO.



It spreads in the water, actually causes regeneration, doing enough damage to the body will put down a zombie, there are several variants significantly more dangerous than the average undead, and the police response was sabotaged, but the military containment actually works.

[Maelstrom]

After a week break (really poorly placed, might I add -- a show that is not necessarily the best received loses it's momentum quickly) and things have begun to develop in a manner I would expect would actually happen. Guys putting out the garbage in the AM had me laughing, though...

[SaintRidley]

I hereby nominate Susan as the best character of the episode, alongside Sr. Salazar.

[Pex]

I have to agree with the Jerk Barber. Hero Dad is weak. I thought he was getting it on what's happening, but talking Kick-Ass Mom out of killing neighbor zombie was a stupid thing to do. He hasn't reached Son level of Stupid, but that was a step down into his direction. The Other Son has managed not to to anything stupid this episode. They didn't give him much to do, just help rescue Daughter and be punished for it. Any more of that will push him into Stupid or Jerk persona.

Now we'll get to see how a military safe zone works out, i. e. how it inevitably collapses. The trope will be for the general in charge to become the Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community, letting the power and craziness get to his/her head making life miserable for the Group. Stupid Son would be a contributing factor as to why. I also expect some of the soldiers to let the power go to their head, first being verbally abusive and then physical. Jerk Barber will resent the soldiers and give trouble. There's going to be a fight that causes the zombies to get inside the safe zone. 50/50 because someone let them in on purpose or lack of discipline allowed them in.

We'll see.

[Yora]

Don't zombies spawns autonomously from every corpse? They probably don't have to even let them in.

[Starbuck_II]

I have to agree with the Jerk Barber. Hero Dad is weak. I thought he was getting it on what's happening, but talking Kick-Ass Mom out of killing neighbor zombie was a stupid thing to do. He hasn't reached Son level of Stupid, but that was a step down into his direction. The Other Son has managed not to to anything stupid this episode. They didn't give him much to do, just help rescue Daughter and be punished for it. Any more of that will push him into Stupid or Jerk persona.

Now we'll get to see how a military safe zone works out, i. e. how it inevitably collapses. The trope will be for the general in charge to become the Evil Bastard Leader of the Safe Haven Community, letting the power and craziness get to his/her head making life miserable for the Group. Stupid Son would be a contributing factor as to why. I also expect some of the soldiers to let the power go to their head, first being verbally abusive and then physical. Jerk Barber will resent the soldiers and give trouble. There's going to be a fight that causes the zombies to get inside the safe zone. 50/50 because someone let them in on purpose or lack of discipline allowed them in.

We'll see.

I disagree that talking her out was stupid. But then he should have done it.
Saving her that burden wasn't a bad idea, but then he should have done it. It is not like it won't attack someone later.

I also think that when the Salazar's wife dies (she likely won't recover from that injury) then she'll turn and that will cause the soldiers to be turned. Domino effect.

But I really didn't expect the military to be that effective.

[Foeofthelance]

If Salazar's wife is allowed to die and turn, then I will be severely disappointed. She's already been diagnosed by someone with medical training, and if the military deployed to a plague-style emergency without medical corpsmen and supplies then the writers need to be taken out back and beaten with a Common Sense stick. She's got a crushed leg. Fine, she won't be running any marathons in the future. But to just go, "oops, she died from infection!" strikes me as really lazy, poor writing.

[Silverraptor]

I think there are really two big things that have to happen to make a zombie apocalypse remotely possible.

1) Fast zombies/fast infection. Shamblers are never, and would never, be a world ending threat, unless literally every dead body from all of history reformed and reanimated at the exact same moment. Fast zombies with a equally fast infection rate has the potential to get out of control.

2) Worldwide simultaneous outbreak. It has to happen everywhere at once for even a sprinter outbreak to threaten the world. Too many places to guard, too many swarms to wipe out. For every city that could be reasonably sealed off contained and threat wiped out, there would be 5 where there werent any troops to do the containing, allowing it to spread. Even if eventually the military held together and managed to wipe out the main zombie threat, chances are the world population would have dropped massively.

In fact, that could make for an interesting show. A worldwide sprinter outbreak. The military is communicating on all frequencies that it is coming, but they cant save everywhere at once, so people are trying to hold out till the military can get there, or trying to evacuate to a location where the army currently is, and everything is just chaos. Zombies everywhere, they are fast, they are mean, and they are killing people. You have rambo types trying to shoot everything that doesnt speak, people trying to fort up and deal with a crush of zombies breaking down their doors, and our main characters stuck in this mess several cities down on the priority list, trying to hold out till the cavalry can come in.

After reading your idea, I am suddenly struck with the title of it being called 'Z-COM'.

"Good Luck, Commander!"

:smalltongue:

[Pex]

Not that I expect them to do it, but it would be interesting if the military safe zone is successful and this show develops into The Walking Dead's version of Redeker's Plan from World War Z. Rick and company are in a feces-cavity because they're in the East which the government abandons to the undead to coordinate and set-up an undead-free zone in the West.

[Silverraptor]

Not that I expect them to do it, but it would be interesting if the military safe zone is successful and this show develops into The Walking Dead's version of Redeker's Plan from World War Z. Rick and company are in a feces-cavity because they're in the East which the government abandons to the undead to coordinate and set-up an undead-free zone in the West.

Ever since I found out about everyone being infected being the cause of the zombies and the outbreak, I realized that zombie safe zones can not exist with a group who doesn't know about the infection being universal in every human on the planet. All it takes is 1 person dying, due to natural causes like a heart attack or an accident like overmedication, or even a suicide by overmedication. Then you suddenly have a zombie behind the front lines, biting unsuspecting people and converting everyone in the safe zone into a zombie, or in this show a "walker". Unless you plan on constructing a safe zone into small compartmentalized living spaces where if 1 person dies, only that zone is compromised until the security personal can respond to it. Otherwise, you can establish a safe zone, but it will only ever be temporary, never permanent.

[SaintRidley]

Even so, if we have a serious attempt by the military to establish a safe-zone I think we will be able to say the show can justify itself. That's the sort of thing we won't be able to see in the main show, and it will allow the show to try and stand on its own. While I'm not terribly attached to most of the characters, I think the bigger worldbuilding elements might be able to be interesting enough to give time to learn to like some of them.

[Silverraptor]

Even so, if we have a serious attempt by the military to establish a safe-zone I think we will be able to say the show can justify itself. That's the sort of thing we won't be able to see in the main show, and it will allow the show to try and stand on its own. While I'm not terribly attached to most of the characters, I think the bigger worldbuilding elements might be able to be interesting enough to give time to learn to like some of them.

Oh I have no doubt that they will try and establish a safe zone, maybe even several times. But until they understand that everyone will come back as a walker, that safe zone won't last.

[Sapphire Guard]

Ever since I found out about everyone being infected being the cause of the zombies and the outbreak, I realized that zombie safe zones can not exist with a group who doesn't know about the infection being universal in every human on the planet. All it takes is 1 person dying, due to natural causes like a heart attack or an accident like overmedication, or even a suicide by overmedication. Then you suddenly have a zombie behind the front lines, biting unsuspecting people and converting everyone in the safe zone into a zombie, or in this show a "walker". Unless you plan on constructing a safe zone into small compartmentalized living spaces where if 1 person dies, only that zone is compromised until the security personal can respond to it. Otherwise, you can establish a safe zone, but it will only ever be temporary, never permanent.

Unless there's a mass death by explosion or crushing or something, those would all fade quickly. The zombie would have to get lucky and not be recognised as a zombie long enough to bite someone, and even if they were, the first person to be bitten would probably destroy the first zombie and then be isolated or executed by the people running the safezone. And there's only so many times that could happen before they'd figure it out.

Remember, this is world where undead aren't part of pop culture, so bite=zombie wouldn't be as hardwired into their brains.

[Silverraptor]

Unless there's a mass death by explosion or crushing or something, those would all fade quickly. The zombie would have to get lucky and not be recognised as a zombie long enough to bite someone, and even if they were, the first person to be bitten would probably destroy the first zombie and then be isolated or executed by the people running the safezone. And there's only so many times that could happen before they'd figure it out.

Remember, this is world where undead aren't part of pop culture, so bite=zombie wouldn't be as hardwired into their brains.

I would agree with you, but given how many times a zombie got lucky in the previous series, I'm hesitant. Remember, this new group doesn't know everything about the zombies yet, like how a headshot is what fully kills them. But only time will tell if they succeed in setting up the safe zone or not.

[Ricky S]

I am really enjoying the show so far. It is a breath of fresh air compared to what walking dead is at the moment. Added to that the initial breakout is always my favourite part of any zombie movie or game. Those moments of suspense as no one knows what's going on and all hell breaks loose.

The walking dead is getting pretty tiresome. I got unbelievably bored during season 4 and then watched it on and off. I don't care for any of the characters anymore. I really feel like the comic is still the standard and they have deviated too much from it. It's understandable though because the show can't be as brutal as the comic due to it being a visual medium.

On the issue of a breakout being realistic: I live in Australia which has roughly 50 000 police and 60 000 military personnel and a population of 24 million. There are approx 160 000 deaths a year which would not be enough for am outbreak to occur simply from reanimation. There are roughly 13000 deaths a month nationwide and people would soon realise that the dead are coming back to life. Also because the population is spread out the police would be able to put down those threats because they are isolated. They wouldn't be hordes of undead and the military would definitely have enough time to mobilise. Despite what is always portrayed the military would actually be able to do a really effective job of containing it from the start.

There would have to be a sudden decrease in population for it to happen. So either another event causing mass deaths or an outbreak brought about by something other than reanimation upon death such as a virus infecting a large % of the population.

Granted that Australia has a pretty low population density compared to other countries so it could be possible for a breakout to occur far more quickly in places like Tokyo or Mumbai.

I know America is always the standard for zombie apocalypses and are always shown falling into chaos but would be one of the best equipped countries to deal with the situation.

[Traab]

Japan and india are probably two of the most likely places for an outbreak where everything dead comes back to gain a real foothold. India especially has a lot of areas that have a fairly high density and not a lot of protection. Communication would be tough to get through, and considering most of these zombie apocalypses take place in realities where zombie movies arent a part of our general knowledge, means it wouldnt be so easy to go, "OMG ZAMBYS! Shoot it in the head! Decapitate everyone as soon as they die!" Yeah in the real world we would recognize an outbreak quick. In a world where they dont know about zombies, it would take some time to transition from thinking inexplicable riots and murderhobo rampages, to unnatural creatures that rise from the dead and can only be killed by head shots.

Certain nations in africa would also probably fall quickly. Just look at how viruses like ebola spread. Its insane. Communication sucks out in the sticks, people flat out dont listen to orders to stay put, and by the time the government realizes where the murders are happening, they have spread beyond that point. Try to quarantine the area? I hope you like massive riots. And how everyone that dies in them comes back as a zombie. It would be a mess.

[SaintRidley]

For the benefit of anyone who didn't notice, they left a reference to Revelation 21:4 in this episode. The KJV translation:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Appropriate.

[Pex]

It would have been better to be shown the military engage the zombies in the arena and deciding to lock them in rather than be told what happened. You just know Jerk Barber is going to let them out. He has a reason. He really shouldn't, but he will.

[Starbuck_II]

It would have been better to be shown the military engage the zombies in the arena and deciding to lock them in rather than be told what happened. You just know Jerk Barber is going to let them out. He has a reason. He really shouldn't, but he will.

Well, yeah, it will cause enough panic that he might save the son.

[ryuplaneswalker]

It seems Season 6 is starting next month. And apparently the executive producer said they already have plans up to Season 12.

Considering their plans for every season are

"Current safe place falls apart"
"Group moves on, finds new safe place"
"Rick fights with "morality" in new safe place"
"Season ends"

They technically have a plan that goes to season 12 Million.

[Pex]

Considering their plans for every season are

"Current safe place falls apart"
"Group moves on, finds new safe place"
"Rick fights with "morality" in new safe place"
"Season ends"

They technically have a plan that goes to season 12 Million.

Hey! That's . . . that's . . .

nevermind

[Muz]

Considering their plans for every season are

"Current safe place falls apart"
"Group moves on, finds new safe place"
"Rick fights with "morality" in new safe place"
"Season ends"

They technically have a plan that goes to season 12 Million.

You left out "Likable characters die while Carl continues to live."
:smallwink:

[ryuplaneswalker]

You left out "Likable characters die while Carl continues to live."
:smallwink:

Frankly, I don't like any of the characters anymore so that one is invalid to me :P

[SaintRidley]

I'm going to say Abigail may well singlehandedly justify the existence of this show.

[Pex]

I'm glad Mr. Strand did not turn out to be a Jerk. He talks like one, but he helped The Group and was sincere about it. For now I'll call him Cool Guy, and he has potential to become Hero. I'm also pleased Other Son managed not to become Stupid. The potential was there, but despite his whining he did as told. For now he's Sidekick. Ditto the Daughter. Jerk Barber gets to say "I told you so" to Hero Dad re the soldier. Hero Dad finally learns to toughen up, saving himself from being downgraded to Stupid. The soldier's betrayal is what did it. After Hero beats him up he does what needs to be done. No more "they're just sick".

[SaintRidley]

So yeah, I'm gonna say if Abigail pans out we've got ourselves some really cool stuff going forward. And I just found this interview with Cliff Curtis, which is pretty neat. He makes the observation that this show, unlike the main show, gives us a group of characters whose jobs make them remarkably unsuited to doing well in such a situation (they aren't cops or farmers or military) and so even on that level of character and basic skill, we're going to have a very different show.

Also, Talking Dead revealed we covered about 9 days total this season, and we still have some time before Rick wakes up. I think season 2 will pick up right where season 1 left off - they said there will be a bit of difficulty actually getting to Abigail.

[Maelstrom]

Well, the show certainly started to take shape and is moving in a mostly positive direction. I look forward to what the second season may offer.

Now, I know that it would not make good TV, but the entire time they are talking about 'going east' I'm thinking, what? Into the Mojave?? Yes, likely to be less populated, but that will be ROUGH. I'd head to the harbor and high tail it to the Catalina Islands ;)

[ryuplaneswalker]

You know the military being generic MCevil thing I could live with, it Annoyed me but I could live with it however to see A military unit using such ABYSMALLY STUPID strategies in this episode almost makes me want to throw my hands up and call the franchise dead, you have enemies that can't get through a fence that you can walk up to and pop in the head and continue, and that is not the worst of it, you have MONTHS To set up defenses, there is this thing called Barbed Wire. It was -REALLY- good at keeping foes at bay in WW1.

Or say Metal Pikes, yes sometimes you will have to clean them off but they are really effective at stopping an enemy who's strategy is "Walk fore wards"

[SaintRidley]

There's no months. The military has been around these parts roughly a week.

[Pex]

The military has to be portrayed as Evil and Dumb to explain why they failed to stop the zombies. Otherwise there's no show.

[Yora]

Also, zombie stories are always a criticism of the government and misuse of power. Can't have nonevil and nonstupid military in it.

[comicshorse]

'Shaun of the Dead' would like a word with you :smallsmile:

[Pex]

'Shaun of the Dead' would like a word with you :smallsmile:

The living win.

Point stands.

[comicshorse]

That wasn't the point

[ryuplaneswalker]

Also, zombie stories are always a criticism of the government and misuse of power. Can't have nonevil and nonstupid military in it.

Well maybe that is something someone should perhaps try to subvert.

[Traab]

'Shaun of the Dead' would like a word with you :smallsmile:

Pfft, clearly the military was incompetent in shaun of the dead. Mainly because they never show their faces throughout the course of the film!

[Starbuck_II]

Pfft, clearly the military was incompetent in shaun of the dead. Mainly because they never show their faces throughout the course of the film!

They do at the end. Sure they were a little late.

[Pex]

They do at the end. Sure they were a little late.

They weren't Evil.

They weren't Dumb.

The living win.