[3.5] Is Lich Worth It?

[Thurbane]

Not talking about for PCs - I'm talking as enemies.

For +2 CR, are they worth it?

Apart from the whole "keep coming back until you destroy the phylactery", I'd say definitely not.

Would an 11th level Lich Wizard challenge a party as much as a 13th level Human Wizard?

Maybe I'm undervaluing the whole phylactery aspect. It does make for a better recurring villain.

Thoughts?

Cheers - T

[Blackhawk748]

Well you get all those nice undead immunities, plus a few extra ones (like being immune to Polymorph affects), then you have the Paralyzing touch, which, while situational, is pretty nice.

Personally i say yes.

[Eldan]

It makes them a lot tougher, with the immunities and the HP increase, but I'd say ultimately, spells are just better.

[Larrx]

As you mentioned it makes for a good recurring villain, or a puzzle encounter. It's not that great otherwise.

[Thurbane]

It makes them a lot tougher, with the immunities and the HP increase, but I'd say ultimately, spells are just better.

Well, you could get that through the Bone Creature or Necropolitan template for no CR increase...

[noob]

I think that the human is better: he is two caster levels higher if he wanted he could cast that drowning spell(save for having nausea instead of dying and affect four or three targets(this spell have been specifically made for killing adventurer teams by WOTC)) more times and other very cool spells.

[ExLibrisMortis]

On a 17th-level caster, I'd say it's better than a few extra spell slots. Before that, the lost spell level is a problem. However, if you're putting a BBEG up against a 13th-level party - access to 7ths, in other words - I think it's nice if the BBEG is also slinging 7ths, just slightly better, rather than outclassing the party with 8ths and 9ths. Instead of using a wizard 15 or wizard 17 as BBEG, I'd put up a lich wizard 13 or a lich wizard 13/[dips].

[Segev]

It's all in how you play it. The lich as a one-off encounter is too expensive, yes. His paralyzing touch and aura of dread are nifty, but spells can replicate those better.

But if you're going to use this NPC more than once, the lich template makes them tenacious. One of the things that many DMs lament is that their BBEG died before he could use his dramatic escape method. While wizards can have contingencies and other effects to help with that, there are always flaws to elude it. A lich who has secreted his phylactery away somewhere safe can confront the PCs in person. He'll probably have escape plans, because 1d10 days' inactivity is annoying and inconvenient, but it's absolutely sure to mean he's back when the DM needs him back, no matter what the PCs do to prevent his escape (barring finding the phylactery, which extends the encounter anyway).

And using the other abilities in conjunction with the simple fact of being a wizard can be powerful in clandestine ways. Paralyzing touch while disguised as a commoner in the street can be passed off as totally innocent, with a dozen or more possible suspects if anybody even realizes it is more than sudden inexplicable death. It's also totally without indication of spellcasting, so it's a lot harder to detect save by its results.


Ultimately, if you play to the template's strengths and are using it more than as a one-off encounter, it's worth it.