Durkon's soul

[Shining Wrath]

As everyone knows, the souls of dwarves who die honorably in battle belong to Thor.
I believe that both Durkon and Thor agree that dying fighting a powerful monster to save your friends, as Durkon did, counts as honorable death in battle.

Therefore, Durkon's soul belongs to Thor, and should be with him at this moment. However, Durkon's soul is trapped, and cannot join Thor, because of the High Priest of Hel. And so far as I know, the only way to set Durkon's soul free is to destroy the HPoH.

This may be Hel's gambit - Thor is literally present in the room, knows a soul that belongs to him is Right There inside that vampire, and he's going to insist on claiming his own. But Hel will be able to claim that the Godsmoot rules protect her representative. If Thor acts impulsively, Hel may be able to claim that her representative gets a vote, but Thor's does not - and if Durkon's body is destroyed by Thor, Gontor becomes her new High Priest and gets zotted in his turn.

Thus, by removing Thor's vote for breaking the rules, we have a tie, and Hel's vote is decisive. And then she exacts a terrible price from Thor and the rest of the pantheon.

[Mike Havran]

From the storm that attacked the ship and was calmed by Durkula, we know that Thor already knows what happened to Durkon, but is not willing to go against the Universal Rules in order to free his soul.

[factotum]

I agree with Mike Havran--if Thor doesn't consider Durkon's soul important enough to deny the HPoH's request to calm the storm he sent, he's not going to do something even more blatantly against the accords here at the Godsmoot.

[Silverionmox]

From the storm that attacked the ship and was calmed by Durkula, we know that Thor already knows what happened to Durkon, but is not willing to go against the Universal Rules in order to free his soul.

I don't see that at all. It's just a storm.

[Kantaki]

I don't see that at all. It's just a storm.

A massive storm, that started at full strenght and came out of nowhere the very moment they entered the dominion of the Northern Gods? I don't think it was "just a storm". After all coincidences do not exist.
No, it is very likely Thor was involved there in some way.

[Keltest]

A massive storm, that started at full strenght and came out of nowhere the very moment they entered the dominion of the Northern Gods? I don't think it was "just a storm". After all coincidences do not exist.
No, it is very likely Thor was involved there in some way.

don't forget that it ignored the normal laws that govern storms, doing things like ignoring lightning rods in an attempt to cripple the ship.

[Lexible]

This may be Hel's gambit - Thor is literally present in the room, knows a soul that belongs to him is Right There inside that vampire, and he's going to insist on claiming his own. But Hel will be able to claim that the Godsmoot rules protect her representative. If Thor acts impulsively, Hel may be able to claim that her representative gets a vote, but Thor's does not - and if Durkon's body is destroyed by Thor, Gontor becomes her new High Priest and gets zotted in his turn.

Thus, by removing Thor's vote for breaking the rules, we have a tie, and Hel's vote is decisive. And then she exacts a terrible price from Thor and the rest of the pantheon.

So... you play chess a lot, do you?


If Thor doesn't consider Durkon's soul important enough to deny the HPoH's request to calm the storm he sent, he's not going to do something even more blatantly against the accords here at the Godsmoot.

Thor wasn't responsible for answering the HPoH's prayers: Hel was...

[Psyren]

don't forget that it ignored the normal laws that govern storms, doing things like ignoring lightning rods in an attempt to cripple the ship.

Indeed - the storm was unequivocally from Thor, and even Darkon himself thought so (and he apparently has more Religion ranks than Durkon does.)

[Bulldog Psion]

While interesting, I'm going to personally file this under "needlessly complex and Nale-like plan on Hel's part when it works just as well, with a lot less explanation, if a tie goes to the destroy-the-world faction."

[SoC175]

Don't think so.

It's one mortal trapping the soul of another mortal. If the deities themselves would intervene every time a mortal casts trap the soul on another mortal, the whole divine agreement would be worthless

[factotum]

Thor wasn't responsible for answering the HPoH's prayers: Hel was...

Did you miss the whole strip where HPoH was explaining to Durkon exactly why his Control Weather would work, despite Thor being the master of storms? (Strip #954, if you want to re-read it). Who's actually answering the prayer is entirely irrelevant to the point I was making, which is, if Thor isn't going to break the agreements to save Durkon then, he isn't going to do so now.

[Quild]

Shining's Wrath idea is a good one, but it's a little too far-fetched to happen I think.

I don't expect that HPoH will be destroyed right now (he didn't brought Death and Destruction yet and we know from word of The Giant that OOTS won't end with World's End), but Thor trying to destroy HPoH could happen.
But I'm not really sure if breaking the rules of the Godsmoot will be worst than breaking Domain Agreement's rules.

[Keltest]

Shining's Wrath idea is a good one, but it's a little too far-fetched to happen I think.

I don't expect that HPoH will be destroyed right now (he didn't brought Death and Destruction yet and we know from word of The Giant that OOTS won't end with World's End), but Thor trying to destroy HPoH could happen.
But I'm not really sure if breaking the rules of the Godsmoot will be worst than breaking Domain Agreement's rules.

Heres a crazy and alarming thought. What if Durkon returning home doesn't mean the High Priest of Hel, but Durkon, alive and in control again? And it actually is Durkon, and not the vampire, that brings death and destruction?

[Quild]

Heres a crazy and alarming thought. What if Durkon returning home doesn't mean the High Priest of Hel, but Durkon, alive and in control again? And it actually is Durkon, and not the vampire, that brings death and destruction?

Well, you have to combine Odin's prophecy with with the fact that he returns home posthumously.
It would mean that HPoH is destroyed but Durkon not resurrected (or killed again) before returning home.
My expectations on this are quite low.

[Keltest]

Well, you have to combine Odin's prophecy with with the fact that he returns home posthumously.
It would mean that HPoH is destroyed but Durkon not resurrected (or killed again) before returning home.
My expectations on this are quite low.

Only if you assume posthumously to mean "While dead but not resurrected."

Technically it means "after death" which is now anything that happens to Durkon, ever. And while yes, you are fully within your rights to be skeptical that people would use the word like that in a world where resurrections are both known to exist and fairly available, there is no indication that it has a meaning other than the way we use it thus far, and the Oracle would totally be one to use it like that.

Or maybe The vampire just escapes to the Dwarven lands, gets dusted, and then Durkon gets resurrected and makes bad things happen?

[Jasdoif]

Technically it means "after death" which is now anything that happens to Durkon, ever. And while yes, you are fully within your rights to be skeptical that people would use the word like that in a world where resurrections are both known to exist and fairly available, there is no indication that it has a meaning other than the way we use it thus far, and the Oracle would totally be one to use it like that.I think it's also important that Durkon asked when he would finally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) be returning home. Durkon could go home, fulfill the prophecy from Odin, leave, die, and then finally return home...and that would fit the Oracle's prophecy by the words, whether or not "posthumous" implies him to have been dead. Just because we have two prophecies about Durkon doesn't mean they have to be resolved at the same time.

[TheMiningDwarf]

This gave me an interesting idea. We know that Thor knew that Durkon had been vamped but what if he also knew that since he was vamped he would be the HPoH. Suddenly him sending storms to take down the ship become less about avenging the death of his cleric and more about stopping Hel from getting a vote in the godsmoot.

[Kantaki]

This gave me an interesting idea. We know that Thor knew that Durkon had been vamped but what if he also knew that since he was vamped he would be the HPoH. Suddenly him sending storms to take down the ship become less about avenging the death of his cleric and more about stopping Hel from getting a vote in the godsmoot.

Sounds reasonable. He would know that the entity that inhabits Durkons body doesn't serve him and since Hel is the one responsible for (un)dead in the north it would make sense for Thor to assume that the vampire serves her.
There are only two questions: Is Thor smart enough to make those conclusions and would he go this far to prevent a fellow goddess from participating at the moot.

I don't doubt the latter and I won't deny the former is possible. The drunk fool can be surprisingly smart sometimes.

[Quild]

Only if you assume posthumously to mean "While dead but not resurrected."

Technically it means "after death" which is now anything that happens to Durkon, ever. And while yes, you are fully within your rights to be skeptical that people would use the word like that in a world where resurrections are both known to exist and fairly available, there is no indication that it has a meaning other than the way we use it thus far, and the Oracle would totally be one to use it like that.

Or maybe The vampire just escapes to the Dwarven lands, gets dusted, and then Durkon gets resurrected and makes bad things happen?


I think it's also important that Durkon asked when he would finally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) be returning home. Durkon could go home, fulfill the prophecy from Odin, leave, die, and then finally return home...and that would fit the Oracle's prophecy by the words, whether or not "posthumous" implies him to have been dead. Just because we have two prophecies about Durkon doesn't mean they have to be resolved at the same time.
Good points. I like Keltest's idea of how the Oracle may have been a jerk with phrasing, again.

Also, if HPoH brings Death and Destruction, is that Durkon enough for the prophecy? It's his body, his clerics levels, his soul is here... But is it him who brings that?
I thought for some time, before the vampire thing, that bringing Death and Destruction was a way to say that they will be along with Durkon. I was thinking at Xykon and Redcloak doing a rampage in the same time of Durkon's return, but not BECAUSE of Durkon and his return (and in this case, Durkon's return would have been a good thing). Still somehow works with the vampire I guess.

As auto-fullfilling prophecies goes, if HPoH is the one bringing chaos, sending Durkon away is what allowed that HPoH to be that powerful. Durkon would certainly be way lower level without that and no threat at all.

I'm kinda sad we can't make any theory about tree's implication :(