Unarmed Martial Adept, Superior Unarmed Strike, Monk Dip, Enchanting Unarmed Strike

[Draconium]

Suppose I wanted to play a Warblade, and I wanted to use mainly unarmed attacks to deliver my strikes. Obviously, I'd want to grab Improved Unarmed Strike, and I would probably want Superior Unarmed Strike later on. Now, from what I understand, if you wanted to grab a two-level dip into Monk as well, SUS would then change - instead of scaling with your character level, you would simply deal damage as a Monk's unarmed attacks, at four levels above your current Monk level - which means it would remain static, as you only have two levels in Monk. Am I correct in thinking this would be strictly worse than simply using SUS itself?

Now, a related question. Is there any way to enchant your unarmed attacks, as you would a weapon? Or are you just going to be stuck with "mundane" attacks for your adventuring career? I realize that that is a downfall of the Monk class, so I was wondering if there was a way around that at all.

Finally, a role-playing question. If you were playing a martial adept of any sort, using SUS (or Unarmed Swordsage) for your attacks, what disciplines would you equate with real-life martial art techniques?

[KingSmitty]

you are the magic weapon. get permanent Magic Fang and Owl's Wisdom and whatever else you can get allowed.

theres also an unarmed swordsage variant which is basically awesomesauce.

I just finished a campaign with a Monk 4 / Unarmed Swordsage 4/ Shadow Sun Ninja 1/Master of Nine 2 and it was crazy fun.

Improved Natural Attack.

Had to beg to get monk and swordsage to stack for flurry and unarmed damage, but with maneuvers and a couple feats you can easily get 5 attacks at level 11 making a ton of damage. Low attack bonus until the end where it was fitting to take vow of poverty.

Take insightful strike (wis to attack) and don't look back at taking a 10 for strength. With maneuvers you don't really need to worry about that.

[Hiro Quester]

Necklace of natural attacks weapons can enchant your fists with standard weapon enhancements.

Throwing returning fists, perhaps? :smallbiggrin:

[Oberon Kenobi]

Also, like, Amulet of Mighty Fists. Or Amulet of Natural Attacks (name?) from Savage Species, since it's more sanely priced and you only have one natural weapon anyway.

Edit: Kensai'd! Speaking of which: Kensai. Ignore the bits about treating each limb as a separate weapon unless you just want the added versatility; if you have IUS and SUS, I'd treat your whole body like a single weapon regardless of whether you have Monk levels that tell you to or not.

Sadly, by RAW you're correct that SUS is static if you take any monk levels, although any GM that holds you to that instead of giving you the best of the two values is kind of a p'taq. The RAI is pretty clearly that the feat should be a carrot for monks, not a stick for multiclassing monks.

I'd have to look at the ToB again, but Setting Sun and Stone Dragon seemed like things real (read: action movie, cinematic but logical extension of reality given that you're a high fantasy character) martial artists should be able to do.

[KingSmitty]

Necklace of natural attacks can enchant your fists with standard weapon enhancements.

Throwing returning fists, perhaps? :smallbiggrin:

gave me a great idea for a construct my PCs will now have to defeat. Think giant spiked gauntlets

[Snowbluff]

Don't forget to replace your arms with Mighty Arms and to attach a Battle Fist. >:o

[Draconium]

Don't forget to replace your arms with Mighty Arms and to attach a Battle Fist. >:o

Is that a reference? I feel like it's a reference.

[Snowbluff]

Is that a reference? I feel like it's a reference.

Um... it could be.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mkwikia/images/1/14/Jax_MK2_Versus_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20121116161039
But that's not the point. Look up that graft and Warforged Component. they make you strong at punching things.

[Draconium]

Um... it could be.

But that's not the point. Look up that graft and Warforged Component. they make you strong at punching things.

Ah, gotcha. That is actually a nice combo... :smallbiggrin:

[Curmudgeon]

Necklace of natural attacks weapons can enchant your fists with standard weapon enhancements.
You've gone from one error to two, I'm afraid; you started with the right name before correcting yourself.

The pre-3.5 magic item in Savage Species was the Necklace of Natural Weapons (page 58). The item updated to 3.5 rules is the Necklace of Natural Attacks, which you can find here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) (bottom of the page).

The second error is that the item doesn't do anything to your fists; it instead enhances your unarmed strike, or other natural weapon as you choose.
Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike, which may be a punch, kick, head butt, or other type of attack. Even if the character decides to strike with their hands, it's only the strike itself which is enhanced, not any particular body part. Detect Magic won't pick up anything on the character's fists. For that to happen, you need special rules: see the Kensai PrC.

[Sagetim]

three magic items of interest to punching things: Monk's belt (which would stack your effective monk level for punching 5 higher) from the DMG

Bracers of Striking from Magic of Faerun (they can be enchanted as blunt weapons, which lets you put, say...throwing an returning on them. I think they have a base price of a thousand or so, but after that it's the same price as a magic blunt weapon, meaning it's Waaaaay cheaper than other options).

Monk's Tattoo from Magic of Faerun- takes up no item slots, but doesn't stack with itself (but it doesn't mention that it doesn't stack with the monk's belt...so it should stack with the monk's belt). +4 to monk level for the same things a monk's belt does. Costly at a price of 80k, but...what else are you spending money on at high level?

Also, I personally see no reason for you to need to have returning on your fists. After all, it's not like your fists are launching off of your body to attack someone at a range. Being a magic weapon, it's more likely that some kind of fist shaped fist magic is punching your targets at range with fists that go flying out of your fists as you 'throw' them. In the very ridiculous dnd game I was in recently, I helped someone make a monk/assassin who had 7 attacks in a round, iaijutsu focus, and bracers of striking to let him throw his fists. It's too bad we never got into a combat where he could really shine with it before that campaign went on hiatus, but the one time he did get to make a full attack with his iajutsu draws was satisfying (too bad 4 of the 7 attacks were negated by the monster's chaotic defenses). Damn Teratomorphs...

[DrMotives]

I dunno, that awakened flesh golem monk probably needs a returning enchantment on its throwing fists, otherwise things are going to get comically awkward for it. Plus, all its friends are probably tired of "lend you a hand" jokes.

[Mato]

Now, a related question. Is there any way to enchant your unarmed attacks, as you would a weapon?Amulet of mighty fists, battlefist, bracers of striking, and a necklace of natural weapons.

The gauntlet, ward cetus, and scorpion's kama all deal your unarmed damage and actually are weapons. There is a few items worth looking into too, like an elixir of flaming fists adds +1d6 fire for a minute. Lightning tunic gives +2d6 electricity for three rounds and stacks with bracers of lightning's +1d6 electricity. The graft stone spikes is pretty cheap too and adds +1d4 piercing damage. A powerful, but debatable, combination if using a graft to obtain a natural poison so you are a legal target for venomfire, then just use a collar of venom to apply it on all your unarmed attacks.

And don't forget your size increases, like greater mighty wallop, fanged ring, and an ectoplasmic fist.

[Sagetim]

You can also potentially get Greater Magic Fang cast on you and then have Permanency cast on that to lock it into place. The downside is that if you're successfully dispelled...well, those go away. Since this costs xp for the Permanency, that can be quite painful (though there are beings who have Permanency as a spell like ability, which means no xp cost...so you might be able to haggle them for using it on your behalf).

[phlidwsn]

Another good one to grab is Fanged Ring from Dragon Magic. Grants IUS and Improved Natural Attack(Unarmed Strike) feats and lets you deal a point of CON damage on crit for 10k

[Ruethgar]

If you go with one of the monk replacements(Chaos Monk pops to mind) you would still technically be advancing by Superior Unarmed Attack. Also, Battle Dancer is a fine replacement. The Ward Cestus is also a fine way to enchant your unarmed strikes though Sculpt Self lets you more literally enchant yourself.

[Ziegander]

Yeah, actually, since you're talking about going Warblade and not Monk, the gauntlets are a fine choice. They deal your scaling unarmed damage thanks to SUS, and they are themselves weapons so you can enchant them normally without having to worry about jumping through hoops to get your body enchanted.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, actually, since you're talking about going Warblade and not Monk, the gauntlets are a fine choice. They deal your scaling unarmed damage thanks to SUS, and they are themselves weapons so you can enchant them normally without having to worry about jumping through hoops to get your body enchanted.

Battle Fist only works if you have monk levels. D:

But you can enhance it to give bonuses to unarmed.

[Rubik]

I did this on a build once.

It was awesome. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

Think "gore-soaked Kool-Aid Man."

OH YEAH!

[Fouredged Sword]

Beast strike works well with warforged or with battlefists because it stacks your unarmed strike damage and your slam damage. Both benefit from the battlefirst and both can be targeted by greater mighty wallop. It also works with any form of claw or slam attack.

Because you are not likely to flurry with your unarmed strikes, consider focused attack as an ACF for monk. It's a full round action that is a single attack at -2 to hit, but it deals double damage. It expressly applies to all attacks for the remainder of the turn, so you DO get double damage AOO's.

Combine the two and you can start looking at a 32d6 unarmed strike.

[Rubik]

Beast strike works well with warforged or with battlefists because it stacks your unarmed strike damage and your slam damage. Both benefit from the battlefirst and both can be targeted by greater mighty wallop. It also works with any form of claw or slam attack.

Because you are not likely to flurry with your unarmed strikes, consider focused attack as an ACF for monk. It's a full round action that is a single attack at -2 to hit, but it deals double damage. It expressly applies to all attacks for the remainder of the turn, so you DO get double damage AOO's.

Combine the two and you can start looking at a 32d6 unarmed strike.And don't forget that if your unarmed strike deals 16d6 (base) + 16 (Str) + 6d6 (fire) + 3d4 (sonic) and your slam attack deals 16d6 (base) + 16 (Str) + 4d6 (fire) + 3d4 (sonic), Beast Strike turns that into 32d6+32+10d6+6d4 damage.

ie, Beast Strike never says anything about "base weapon damage."