Insanity. How do I handle it?

[frogglesmash]

I intend on making one of my PCs insane at some point in the campaign (don't worry, if the player is against this I won't inflict it upon them against their will). And I was wondering what kind of systems existed -official or otherwise- to model insanity.

[Draconium]

Well, there's the Sanity system, from Unearthed Arcana, which got put on the SRD, here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm).

[frogglesmash]

Well, there's the Sanity system, from Unearthed Arcana, which got put on the SRD, here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm).

Do you know if it's any good at modeling the effects of insanity?

[Draconium]

Do you know if it's any good at modeling the effects of insanity?

I've never used it myself, but is seems decent at modeling the effects of being driven insane, and gives suggestions of what form said insanity could take.

Also, you want to be careful when the concept of mental health comes up it games. It is, understandably, a sensitive topic.

[Ruethgar]

There is also an insanity system in Ravenloft.

[Necroticplague]

Depends on what you mean by insanity. I've seen a permanent Confusion effect used to simulate insanity a few times. You could give Deformity (Madness) as a bonus feat. You could also make it so that he can horribly fail some checks he otherwise couldn't (Fails spot or listen by more than 5, and he has a hallucination that makes him think he saw/heard something when he didn't which can be misleading).

[Brova]

I've seen a permanent Confusion effect used to simulate insanity a few times.

That's probably because there's a spell called insanity that does exactly that.

Incidentally, that's what I recommend.

[Eldan]

Well, the confusion and insanity spells cause someone to act completely randomly, which is about as far as one can be from most mental illnesses other than the very worst and rare cases where someone has no connection to reality left at all.

For the most part, I'd be worried about not making things over the top or comical. It would seem disrespectful to me. If I have to act out an insane person as a DM, based on my own experiences, I'd make it mostly quiet, internal struggles. There are things you absolutely must do, or can't do, even if you realize it's wrong or nonsensical, but from the outside, that won't be visible.

[Ashtagon]

Rather than use the Unearthed Arcana insanity rules (which are entirely too clinical to be fun, and may well touch a raw nerve for anyone who has actual contact with mentally ill people), I'd suggest using the taint rules from Heroes of Horror, but limit it to Wisdom-damage-based taint only.

Note that the taint rules appeared in Oriental Adventures and Unearthed Arcana (and the SRD) too, but the Heroes of Horror version represents the "final draft", and contains features not present in the older drafts.

[Honest Tiefling]

Rather than use the Unearthed Arcana insanity rules (which are entirely too clinical to be fun, and may well touch a raw nerve for anyone who has actual contact with mentally ill people), I'd suggest using the taint rules from Heroes of Horror, but limit it to Wisdom-damage-based taint only.

Note that the taint rules appeared in Oriental Adventures and Unearthed Arcana (and the SRD) too, but the Heroes of Horror version represents the "final draft", and contains features not present in the older drafts.

I'm going to vote for the idea of magical insanity. Normal types are...Generally, pretty boring or even downright unpleasant to have to handle. If you go with 'Taint' or other magical forms of insanity, you side step that issue and the potential to offend anyone, and don't have to do research. Tailor it to what the player will find challenging, but enjoyable.

[Red Fel]

Rather than go with some generic mechanical "insanity," I'd go with a rules-light homebrewed version, that works like this.

Step 1: Determine the type of insanity. For example, is it paranoia? An hallucination? A compulsion? Pick something suitable.

Step 2: Implement it between player and DM. If the PC has an hallucination, make it a person who only visits him when he's alone; whenever he's away from the party, take him out of the room and mini-scene the interaction with his hallucination, and when he returns, let him explain to the other players the interaction he had with his "friend." If it's paranoia, pass notes to him periodically, after describing a scene to the players, so that he knows the truth! about what's going on. If it's a compulsion, have him periodically make a save to resist performing it under stress; alternatively, give him penalties when he fails to indulge it, and a short-lived bonus when he indulges it.

No fancy mechanics or taint or any of that stuff. It's fairly rules-light, but can be immensely satisfying.

Let me give you an illustration. PC is forced, under mental compulsion, to brutally murder someone he loves. The mental compulsion, combined with the traumatic act, causes something to snap in him, triggering a Lady Macbeth-esque compulsion to constantly clean his hands. ("Out, damned spot! Out I say!") If he goes more than six hours without washing, he takes a -1 morale penalty to skill checks, saves, and attacks until he has done so. However, the act of washing soothes his troubled mind, and gives him a +1 morale bonus for one half-hour thereafter. Is it abusable? Sure. If his character is willing to be constantly washing, he enjoys a perpetual +1 morale bonus. And everyone will look at him funny. Feel free to replace "wash hands" with "rub security blanket," "mumble mantra," or "avoid stepping on cracks."

[Jormengand]

Wouldn't it be helpful if Pathfinder had a system for this? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/madness)

[Draconium]

Rather than go with some generic mechanical "insanity," I'd go with a rules-light homebrewed version, that works like this.

Step 1: Determine the type of insanity. For example, is it paranoia? An hallucination? A compulsion? Pick something suitable.

Step 2: Implement it between player and DM. If the PC has an hallucination, make it a person who only visits him when he's alone; whenever he's away from the party, take him out of the room and mini-scene the interaction with his hallucination, and when he returns, let him explain to the other players the interaction he had with his "friend." If it's paranoia, pass notes to him periodically, after describing a scene to the players, so that he knows the truth! about what's going on. If it's a compulsion, have him periodically make a save to resist performing it under stress; alternatively, give him penalties when he fails to indulge it, and a short-lived bonus when he indulges it.

No fancy mechanics or taint or any of that stuff. It's fairly rules-light, but can be immensely satisfying.

Let me give you an illustration. PC is forced, under mental compulsion, to brutally murder someone he loves. The mental compulsion, combined with the traumatic act, causes something to snap in him, triggering a Lady Macbeth-esque compulsion to constantly clean his hands. ("Out, damned spot! Out I say!") If he goes more than six hours without washing, he takes a -1 morale penalty to skill checks, saves, and attacks until he has done so. However, the act of washing soothes his troubled mind, and gives him a +1 morale bonus for one half-hour thereafter. Is it abusable? Sure. If his character is willing to be constantly washing, he enjoys a perpetual +1 morale bonus. And everyone will look at him funny. Feel free to replace "wash hands" with "rub security blanket," "mumble mantra," or "avoid stepping on cracks."

Okay, this is actually a lot better for mundane "insanity"than anything else I've seen. I'd go with this!

[Red Fel]

Okay, this is actually a lot better for mundane "insanity"than anything else I've seen. I'd go with this!

I know, right?

Insanity is personal. It's a case-by-case thing. It's who the person was before the triggering event, what triggered them, and how it plays out. And that's really hard to pull off with "roll to see if you attack a friend" or "your PC periodically turns into an NPC" or similar.

So you go with something uniquely tailored to the event. Ideally, something that's less about mechanics and more about RP. The mechanics will creep in, to a certain degree - this is D&D we're talking about - but they don't have to be the beginning and the end. Insanity doesn't have to be the "I hit it with my sword" of debuffs; it can be clever and nuanced.

And an imaginary friend who the player isn't even sure is real or not.

Or the fact that those guards are clearly demons in disguise, and why is everyone ignoring the smell of brimstone?

Or the fact that the stupid rock won't stay put where it's supposed to be, and if you'd all just give me a minute I can fix it!

[OldTrees1]

Heroes of Horror's Taint system is my go to for insanity/taint/dark magic/radiation/eldrtich lore/etc.

It grows over time which creates forewarning and allows dread.
It has increasing mechanical effects the deeper one goes.
It acknowledges that characters are different(Wise characters hold onto their Sanity longer/have more Sanity to lose).
It allows the player to fight back(even if you make it a losing battle) which adds engagement.
It is readily customizable:
(adjust the stages table to increase the number of stages and/or to change the distance between stages)
(add new effect options for each of the stages)
(change how depravity is gained/what causes it)
(change what can fight it/how effective treatments are)

[frogglesmash]

~snip~


Heroes of Horror's Taint system is my go to for insanity/taint/dark magic/radiation/eldrtich lore/etc.

It grows over time which creates forewarning and allows dread.
It has increasing mechanical effects the deeper one goes.
It acknowledges that characters are different(Wise characters hold onto their Sanity longer/have more Sanity to lose).
It allows the player to fight back(even if you make it a losing battle) which adds engagement.
It is readily customizable:
(adjust the stages table to increase the number of stages and/or to change the distance between stages)
(add new effect options for each of the stages)
(change how depravity is gained/what causes it)
(change what can fight it/how effective treatments are)

I think I'll use a combination of these two approaches to do it. Thanks for all the help.

[Eldan]

I know, right?

Insanity is personal. It's a case-by-case thing. It's who the person was before the triggering event, what triggered them, and how it plays out. And that's really hard to pull off with "roll to see if you attack a friend" or "your PC periodically turns into an NPC" or similar.

So you go with something uniquely tailored to the event. Ideally, something that's less about mechanics and more about RP. The mechanics will creep in, to a certain degree - this is D&D we're talking about - but they don't have to be the beginning and the end. Insanity doesn't have to be the "I hit it with my sword" of debuffs; it can be clever and nuanced.

And an imaginary friend who the player isn't even sure is real or not.

Or the fact that those guards are clearly demons in disguise, and why is everyone ignoring the smell of brimstone?

Or the fact that the stupid rock won't stay put where it's supposed to be, and if you'd all just give me a minute I can fix it!

I like the idea. And in D&D, much more than in the real world, one really can't be sure what's real.

There are demons. Some of them can disguise themselves as men. THere are gods. Some of them will speak to you and you alone in dreams and give you missions that may not make much sense to you.

My father once had a patient who left his family behind and travelled to the Netherlands because he was told he had to personally protect the Queen from assassination. In D&D, this might be an entirely plausible storyline, including reasons why you can't tell anyone.

[Thurbane]

Willing Deformity (madness) is a vile feat - it has 1 other prereq (vile) feat.

Mechanically, it's actually pretty cool, so long as you don't need to rely on Wisdom too much.