View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Succubus - Stronger. Meaner and Ready to Fight.

Gwazi Magnum
2015-08-26, 12:37 AM
So I'm in the middle of making an E6 Campaign, and while working on things I decided to update the Succubus. It always bothered me how it could barely fight, and it's grapple it couldn't even do well. So I went around tweaking things and created a stronger and more deadly Succubus, one who can actually Grapple well, and when pushed to a corner can fight right back.

Please give me any thoughts on what I can do to make this any better.

Note: These notes below are including some house rules for my Campaign, those mainly being.

Maximized HD for Boss Creautre's and PC's
Skill Focus has a progression of +3 @Lv.1-3, +4 @Lv.4, +5 @Lv.5, +6 @Lv.6
Weapon Guile Feat = Dex to Damage with Weapon Finesse weapons. (Yes I know other feats do this, but there's a lot more other house rules being made not relevant to this monster, and maing a new feat was simplier).
Spell Penetration is a homebrewed feat that applies the user's casting attribute modifier to spell penetration rolls.
Alignment has been banished completely, hence the lack of a evil subtype or damage resistance. If you wish to take this for your own games where alignment is present, just add an evil subtype and DR back in.



Medium Outsider (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 8d12+40 (136 HP)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 30 ft, Fly 50ft.
Armour Class: 24 (+5 Dex, +9 Natural), Touch 14, Flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+19
Attack: Claw +13 (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +13 (1d6+5)
Special Attacks: Demon Unleashed. Life Drain
Special Qualities: Alter Self, Damage Reduction 10/Cold Iron, Darkvision 60ft, Immune to Cold, Fire & Poison, Resistance to Acid 10 & Electricity 10, Spell Resistance 18, Tongues.
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +10
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26
Skills: Bluff +25, Concentration +13, Diplomacy +16, Disguise +25 (+35 with Alter Self), Escape Artist +16, Endurance +16, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (Arcana) +14, Knowledge (Local) +14, Knowledge (Religion) +14, Perception +19, Sense Motive +19, Spellcraft +14, Stealth +16.
Feats: Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs), Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Iron Will, Scorpions Grasp, Skill Focus (Bluff, Disguise, Perception & Sense Motive), Spell Penetration (Charisma), Weapon Guile, Weapon Finesse.

Demon Unleashed (Su): Once a day a Succubus unleashes her inner demon, becoming a truly terrifying sight lasting for 1 minute/level. Any creature striking her with it's body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 1d6+8 points of fire damage. If the attacker has spell resistance it applies to this effect. Creatures wielding weapons with exceptional reach are not subject to this damage.

Additionally while in this form the Succubus gains a 60ft line range fire attack at will, which inflicts 5d6 points of fire damage. And all her natural and weapon attacks inflict 2d6 additional damage, 1d6 being fire, 1d6 being cold.

Life Drain (Su): A Succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed the succubus must start a grapple without attack of opportunity (Improved Grapple). The Succubus kiss or inflicts 1d6 Constitution Damage on the target for each round the kiss goes on for. The kiss also has the effect of a 'Suggestion' spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the Succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 24 Will Save to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC is 24 for the Fortitude Save to ignore the Constitution damage for that turn. These save DC's are Charisma based.

Each round a kiss goes on for a Succubus heals 2d8+8 points of health. Once the target of the kiss has been reduced to 0 Constitution the Succubus gains a +2 Enhancement Bonus to Dexterity, Constitution, Charisma and Saving Throws for every 2 HD the target creature possess to a maximum of 6 HD.

Scorpions Grasp (Ex): When a Succubus attacks with her natural attacks the strike deals normal damage and she can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action; no initial touch attack is required.

Tongues (Su): A Succubus has a permanent tongues ability, gaining the ability to speak and understand every language.

Spell-Like Abilities (At will/DC 25): Alter Self (Infinite Duration), Charm Monster, Detect Thoughts, Suggestion.

2015-08-27, 09:27 AM
Alright, let me help you with this:

1. My first complaint is that the HD is a D12, if these guys are outsiders they should have a D8 like the rest of them. Also the hit points are maximized, which isn't normally a thing unless it's an extremely unique villain, just an average succubus would have average which would be 92 hit points

2. is has EIGHT bonus feats! EIGHT! That's a pretty large number for a creature like the succubus. Remember, the goal of the succubus is to be seductress and an assassin, not a front line fighter, that's what dretch, rutterkins, vrocks, etc. are for. Also please try and note where some of the feats are from, and note what bonuses they give and if they are in the stat block, I've never heard of the feat weapon guile and I don't know what it does. Also try and mark which ones are the bonus feats and which ones are normal.

3. There's no challenge rating here, my first instinct is to go to VT's calculator. I'm going to add in the information as you have it here, not counting my criticisms yet. The CR comes to 15, the core succubus 7. Again, the point of the succubus really shouldn't be a big combatant.

4. That kiss! Each round it deals 1d6 con damage and suggests the target sit there and take it? It's got a pretty high DC too, this will without a doubt kill people. The normal version is merely crippling with a negative level, which are pretty bad but they give the victim a chance. Also it heals 10-24 damage per round which is probably too good for it.

5. Demon Unleashed? This ability seems odd, for something suave and seductive it doesn't seem very subtle, and it does a lot of damage. As this ability is written with different ways to use it I'm going to address it in three parts:

5A: 1d6+8 fire damage when someone hits it
This ability seems fine, but the damage is a bit high, that's 9-14 damage which for 8 minutes could to quite a bit of damage to anybody in melee...

5B: 60ft. line at will 5d6 damage
This is a pretty long line, not a problem, 5d6 damage, not a problem. I think the at will part is the worst though, because something like a dragon with a similar ability has to wait 1d4 rounds before doing it again, and this creature has 80 rounds of this ability per day, which makes me think that a smart one of these would just use that ability in a tough fight and just butcher the party

5C: 2d6 damage on melee attacks, half fire half cold
Why is this one half fire half cold? The rest of them are just fire, this ability confused me a bit for really that reason alone

6. You're missing some things, such as the demon summoning ability, demonic telepathy, the miscellaneous spell like abilities, etc.

Finally the formatting is hard to read, there's no bolding or tables, which is often why a lot of homebrew doesn't get looked at in the first place. I recommend typing the information into this (http://dspeyer.dyndns.org/monster_builder.html) and copying the table code it spits out for you.

2015-08-27, 11:52 AM
Wait, are we talking about this kind of Succubus (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RXDPzbJSzO4/T4djLlTpX_I/AAAAAAAAc_k/VH6cZ9xE02U/s1600/EternalDescent_Vol2_04-Preview6.jpg)? Or this kind (http://i.imgur.com/o2O2a.jpg)? (Both images are safe for work - though you really shouldn't be trawling gaming forums at work. But I digress.)

The issue here is a matter of expectations; Succubi don't actually need to be good at grappling unless you use grappling rules for hugs. There is a reason that the canon Succubus has Charm Monster and Suggestion at-will, both with really good Save DCs.

The Succubus isn't meant to fight; the Succubus is meant to charm whoever looks the most dangerous and then suggest that they should defend her. If push comes to shove, she can use Greater Teleport at-will, meaning she doesn't have to stick around. Add on the fact that most parties won't be able to Sense Motive through her lies (+19 is a big Bluff bonus for that level), and that she's really good at disguising herself as any humanoid...

Anyway, on a mechanical front, if you really want the core Succubus to be a better fighter...

Toss some minions in there with her (some 1st or 2nd level guards that she Charmed, maybe?), and use them for damage and to prevent people from lining up a charge on her. Swap out her Detect Good SLA for some other nice 1st level spell, like Instant of PowerFoW (buff the Succubus' Charmed allies with a nice +4 bonus to their next attack roll, damage roll, or saving throw as an Immediate action.)

If you aren't worried about it being a 1st level spell, stuff like DisquietudeSpC or Dirge of DiscordCAd can be nasty (Disquietude prevents the target from receiving touch-ranged buffs from allies and compels them to either move at least 15ft away from all other creatures or take the total defense action; Dirge of Discord halves speed, and gives a -4 penalty to attack rolls, Concentration checks, and Dexterity).

In summary: your changes to the Succubus basically turn it into a dumb beatstick whose strategies boil down to "hit face"; just toss some allies in there with her and swap out Detect Good for a nastier spell-like ability. I'd also suggest swapping out feats; replace Persuasive with Combat PanachePHBII, Dodge for Skill Focus (Diplomacy), and Mobility for Silver TongueDr#318.

It should work out fine as a boss fight.

2015-08-30, 09:03 PM
Too overpowered for HD. Note which feats are bonus feats. I am at a loss to even critique this one as clearly it's not meant to follow any rules whatsoever.

2015-08-30, 10:21 PM
The Succubus as written isn't a fighter, she's a lover!

A dangerous, soul-draining vamp lover.

Sabine from the webcomic is an atypical succubus in that she likes melee combat (a "typical" anything when talking about a physical embodiment of chaos sounds like an oxymoron).

If you must have this as a combat succubus, I would reflavour them as some sort of succubus evolution. Demon lords take succubi of sufficient worth and do rituals on them to remake them into advanced succubi, and use them as concubine bodyguards.

2015-08-31, 09:23 PM

2015-09-01, 07:59 PM
Simplest solution is to just swap out the feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Mantle of Freedom (Dragon #104, Cha to grapple and Escape Artist) ought to do you more than well enough-- a +18 to grapple is frankly ludicrous at CR 7. Hand her some Slippers of Battledancing as loot (DMG II) and she gets Cha to attack and damage, too. (+15/d6+9?)

2015-09-01, 08:29 PM
I would have thought that a core Succubus would have been a perfect end-boss for an E6 game.

Between her charm effects and her suggestions, she's not going to be fighting alone.

Teleport and etherealness also at will -- she's not going to be stuck in any fights she doesn't like.

Yeah, not really seeing any need for a buff. Just play her really smart.