Mastering the Elements: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Kineticist

[N. Jolly]

Hey all, finally getting around to making my kineticist guide, started looking for suggestions on Paizo first, but I always do like to crosspost my guides over here so that everyone's able to check it out and offer advice.

...but everything changed when the fire nation attacked. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1utgJVtJStEtZ8B923VWFYKIx6kbWQS_44zSMOb8rkT0/edit?usp=sharing)

As always, any input is liked, the guide's obviously not finished yet, I've hit a snag since getting answers for things it's history's fasted endeavor, but I would like to keep getting people's opinions on things to make this the best guide that I can.

[Vhaidara]

For the multiclassing section, I'm currently running a geokineticist in pfs, and I'm considering dropping a level of fighter for the archetype that gets Endurance+Diehard. With the amount of Con that you run, Diehard can easily net 15+ extra HP,and you only need a standard to blast people. On top of that, it nets a little extra HP and an extra bab.

[N. Jolly]

For the multiclassing section, I'm currently running a geokineticist in pfs, and I'm considering dropping a level of fighter for the archetype that gets Endurance+Diehard. With the amount of Con that you run, Diehard can easily net 15+ extra HP,and you only need a standard to blast people. On top of that, it nets a little extra HP and an extra bab.

I wish this was viable, but the Burn section specifically states you can't avoid the negative conditions of burn, and word of god is that falling unconscious when your lethal/non lethal total hits lower than 0 is a negative condition of burn. Trust me, I thought this was amazing too, but it seems there was another feat that allowed you to ignore all negative conditions from burn, so they just went with a huge sweeping ban to stop all of those shenanigans.

[Vhaidara]

Damn. I wasn't even thinking of it as burn negation so much as just a really nice thing you could do on such a con focused class. I've made a decent career as a tank so far. 21hp and DR 2 goes a long way at level 2, especially together with a +8 fort save and +7 reflex (cloak of resistance).

Admittedly, I've dealt a total of 15 damage across 2 sessions, but that's because my dice hate me and refuse to roll 2 digits.

[Psyren]

If you open it to Comments then people can make suggested edits (which you can approve or reject) rather than only making suggestions in the various threads.

"Yet another tool in the war against blast" - was this meant to say "war against burn?"

It's good to see a guide for the class with a more measured tone.

[Vhaidara]

I also find it amusing that I've seen 2 kineticist guides pop up (which makes me happy, this class got me hyped and I personally love burn in theory, though I think they flubbed it a little), but I haven't seen any other OA guides.

Oh, and I think I can explain why Burn caps at 3+Con mod: It's to prevent people from disabling themselves for 8 hours. Technically, it's still possible, but only in a scenario where you have to roll, and even then you need to be level 6 and have rolled straight 1s for HP, and spent FCB on something else.But the idea was to make sure that you couldn't take so much burn that you were KOed, with 0 ability to recover, for 8 hours.

Now, I personally have no objection to that, however, Paizo has to worry about a bunch of people who are, frankly, whiny little children who don't think their decisions through and would cry foul of the designers when they did this by accident.

As a note, my Kineticist houserules include Full BAB, d12 HD, removal of the Burn/turn limit, removal of the burn cap, and 1 burn reduction/3 burn you've taken (blasts only)

[N. Jolly]

If you open it to Comments then people can make suggested edits (which you can approve or reject) rather than only making suggestions in the various threads.

"Yet another tool in the war against blast" - was this meant to say "war against burn?"

It's good to see a guide for the class with a more measured tone.

Yes, yes it was.

And I'm not opening it up to comments, that way lies madness. I've seen guides that do that, it wasn't good. I'd rather just read suggestions in thread, where I can respond to them as either 'yeah, that's a good idea' or 'dear god why?', since that's my general reaction to most.

I had this guide planned for a while now, and I don't see the class as horrible like some people do, it just needs some fine tuning, as well as a few tweaks I plan on writing about later.

[Psyren]

I'm actually fine with a burn cap but it just does not scale well. Even Rage and Bardic Performance, abilities which also expect you to be spending 1 per round, start at 4+modifier and then scale with your level form there - Burn should have done the same.


And I'm not opening it up to comments, that way lies madness. I've seen guides that do that, it wasn't good. I'd rather just read suggestions in thread, where I can respond to them as either 'yeah, that's a good idea' or 'dear god why?', since that's my general reaction to most.


You can always switch it back to View-only if it gets hairy, and I think the collaborative aspect is neat. My next guide (soon to be published) will give it a go.

[Kurald Galain]

I would be interested in seeing some damage calculations either in the guide or in the thread, to see how well a kineticist compares to a baseline barbarian or rogue (if going for kinetic blade + haste) or against a bard or oracle spamming Scorching Rays or Fireballs (if using elemental blasts).

[Extra Anchovies]

Seconding the suggestion to open comments on the document.

You’re also taking 1 point of nonlethal damage per point of burn you have per class level.
It's actually 1 point per character level.

As you level up, you gain the ability to take on more burn, but that hard limit of 3 + con mod will always be there to hold you back, strange how that never increases aside from con increases.
Not that strange, really. A cap of, for example, 5+Con would on average put you below half HP. A cap of 8+Con would let you knock yourself out from burn alone.


Metakineticist
Metakinesis, actually.

The fact that Internal Buffer requires a day of setup should give it a rating lower than green. Orange, probably. It's like if a cleric only got domain spell slots every other day.

Once you get a 2 for 1 or more trade on it
This is misleading; I had to go back and check my copy of OcA to make sure I hadn't missed something about the buffer counting double eventually. It should instead read "Once you can store 2 points of burn in it".

Force Ward should probably be blue. It starts out pretty good but as you level it gets really strong. A 12th-level Kineticist dropping four points of burn into it to max out Elemental Overflow gets back 30 of the 48 HP they spend, and after ten minutes' worth of regeneration you have more HP than you'd have if you didn't fill the buffer. Between that and the ability to turn hits into misses (which can negate some nasty on-hit debuffs), it's up there with Shroud of Water.

You don't give Kinetic Form enough credit. The reach increase goes a long way towards enabling AoO builds, because it lets them get at least some reach before 8th level, at which point burnless kinetic whip + kinetic form is a 20 foot reach. Add Lunge onto that and you get a reach of 30 feet, which means you'll probably be able to use all of your AoOs each turn.

You should mention Parting Blast, just to let people know that it's a trap.


I also find it amusing that I've seen 2 kineticist guides pop up (which makes me happy, this class got me hyped and I personally love burn in theory, though I think they flubbed it a little), but I haven't seen any other OA guides.

Yeah, Kineticist has been the primary focus of discussion both in playtest and after release. It's got some major design flaws but they're easily worked around.

I've been thinking about writing up an Occultist guide, but it would take some time and I've been busy lately. Might put it together over the next few weeks.

[N. Jolly]

You can always switch it back to View-only if it gets hairy, and I think the collaborative aspect is neat. My next guide (soon to be published) will give it a go.

I haven't seen anyone have great luck with that, as while it might sound elitist, you see bad ideas being suggested far more often than good (my other thread still has someone trying to convince me of the merit of Overwhelming Soul), which leads me to think it wouldn't be great. Let me know how it works with your guide though, and if it's aces for you, I'll give it a go.


I would be interested in seeing some damage calculations either in the guide or in the thread, to see how well a kineticist compares to a baseline barbarian or rogue (if going for kinetic blade + haste) or against a bard or oracle spamming Scorching Rays or Fireballs (if using elemental blasts).

I'd rather keep those in the thread myself, calcs go into hard numbers which require full assumed builds, and that's not something I'd like to include myself. I think the paizo thread has some damage calcs (I know my gunslinger thread is blowing up with numbers), but if anyone wants to run numbers on a reasonably optimized (not top line conductive monster), I'd change anything I have that was proven wrong by such calcs, since I want to have the most accurate guide possible.


This is misleading; I had to go back and check my copy of OcA to make sure I hadn't missed something about the buffer counting double eventually. It should instead read "Once you can store 2 points of burn in it".

Force Ward should probably be blue. It starts out pretty good but as you level it gets really strong. A 12th-level Kineticist dropping four points of burn into it to max out Elemental Overflow gets back 30 of the 48 HP they spend, and after ten minutes' worth of regeneration you have more HP than you'd have if you didn't fill the buffer. Between that and the ability to turn hits into misses (which can negate some nasty on-hit debuffs), it's up there with Shroud of Water.

You don't give Kinetic Form enough credit. The reach increase goes a long way towards enabling AoO builds, because it lets them get at least some reach before 8th level, at which point burnless kinetic whip + kinetic form is a 20 foot reach. Add Lunge onto that and you get a reach of 30 feet, which means you'll probably be able to use all of your AoOs each turn.

You should mention Parting Blast, just to let people know that it's a trap.

First part is changed.

Force Shield is nice, but it requires burn to truly shine, which is what's keeping it from blue to me. Earth's defense is straight up Invul Rager barb DR (rarely do opponents use adamantine weapons), which to me is top shelf. I might change it to purple just because, which would make me feel the need to up force shield to blue just to show that it can be good.

As for kinetic form, it's a problem of HUGE doesn't come online that quickly, especially for how long it takes to get it initially. As green, it's still a good option, but I don't find it as mandatory for the melee (or even whip) kineticist.

I could, I just hate mentioning any of those feats, like they're all what feels like obvious trash, burning yourself for a final screw you seems so needless and spiteful.

[Tulya]

I don't think their point was that "Force Ward is good on its own merits", but that "Force Ward is good because the combat math that went into balancing the class assumes you have the benefit of Elemental Overflow, and Force Ward is a burn outlet which mitigates most or all the effects of burn with upside."

Compared to your Kineticist peers who invest burn for Overflow bonuses, you always have 1 + 0.5 * burn more HP per level, which caps out at +4.5 HP/level more at 16th level with 7 points of burn invested.
Compared to Kineticists who never accept a single point of burn, you still always have at least 0.5 more HP per level; this occurs because of the rare size bonus to Constitution they miss out on.

The only drawback to this approach is that once you've accepted enough burn to max out your Overflow bonuses, further burn is pure downside. However, this choice is nothing unique to the Telekineticist.

[Extra Anchovies]

I don't think their point was that "Force Ward is good on its own merits", but that "Force Ward is good because the combat math that went into balancing the class assumes you have the benefit of Elemental Overflow, and Force Ward is a burn outlet which mitigates most or all the effects of burn with upside."

Compared to your Kineticist peers who invest burn for Overflow bonuses, you always have 1 + 0.5 * burn more HP per level, which caps out at +4.5 HP/level more at 16th level with 7 points of burn invested.
Compared to Kineticists who never accept a single point of burn, you still always have at least 0.5 more HP per level; this occurs because of the rare size bonus to Constitution they miss out on.

The only drawback to this approach is that once you've accepted enough burn to max out your Overflow bonuses, further burn is pure downside. However, this choice is nothing unique to the Telekineticist.

Pretty much that, yeah. IMO the best build is one that can fill up Elemental Overflow at the start of the day and get by without spending any more burn. So far it looks like the simplest way to achieve that is a geokineticist who expands into aether, picks up Expanded Defense, and builds for AoOs with Kinetic Form + Kinetic Whip + Combat Reflexes.

Also, I did some quick math (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19-GV3vTKP3H-fbCpJEYGbqyT20IsY2gggrc82cwDjPg/edit?usp=sharing), and a Dex-focused kineticist can definitely afford to use Deadly Aim/Piranha Strike/whatever with physical blasts, which is pretty nice. It requires you to fill up Elemental Overflow, which would make you pretty squishy unless you do so by boosting Force Ward. "Enemy AC" uses the standard combatant array from Pathfinder Unchained, and I assumed a starting Dex of 18 with all level-based increases into Dex, +2/4/6 Dex items at levels 7/12/16 (as per Automatic Bonus Progression), and a +1 tome at 15th level or so.

[Tulya]

Force Ward also opens up the option of truly maxing out burn with minimal drawback, though current benefits are a little lackluster. Elemental Overflow's Fortification bonus and Air/Cold/Heat Adaptation's energy resistance are the only effects that scale indefinitely with current burn.

Essentially, you trade up to 4 extra HP/level for benefits that scale up to Heavy Fortification and Greater Energy Resistance in up to 3 energy types. For maximum benefits, you'd need to have Aether, Air, and either Fire or Water.
Notably, your HP is likely to end up equal to or slightly better than most d10 classes because of the size bonuses and greater Con investment.

My first impression is that even factoring in the extra healing between encounters from maxing Force Ward, this is probably not a good trade - but, it's not a bad trade either.

Edit:
If you can get an obscure source of +2 to Con, like the profane bonus from a Succubus, you can actually hit 20 burn at 20th level.
Depending on how rules are adjudicated, 100% fortification could mean crit immunity, and thus complete immunity to coup de grace attacks. That would mean enemies would have to burn through a 444 HP buffer after you fall unconscious before you die.

[Extra Anchovies]

Would a kineticist be able to TWF with kinetic blade and kinetic whip? I'm going to give the Kinetic Whip + Kinetic Form AoO kineticist a try in my next game (until level 8 I'll get by on simple blasts and empowered blasts), and am going for as many attacks as possible.


If you can get an obscure source of +2 to Con, like the profane bonus from a Succubus, you can actually hit 20 burn at 20th level.
Depending on how rules are adjudicated, 100% fortification could mean crit immunity, and thus complete immunity to coup de grace attacks. That would mean enemies would have to burn through a 444 HP buffer after you fall unconscious before you die.

100% fortification does make you ignore every critical hit that you receive, but it doesn't actually give you immunity to critical hits - which is good, because it lets you ignore things that ignore immunity to critical hits.

[Tulya]

Would a kineticist be able to TWF with kinetic blade and kinetic whip? I'm going to give the Kinetic Whip + Kinetic Form AoO kineticist a try in my next game (until level 8 I'll get by on simple blasts and empowered blasts), and am going for as many attacks as possible.

I think you could make a pretty solid case for using them together under RAW, since although Kinetic Whip 'functions as Kinetic Blade', it isn't Kinetic Blade. You're not using the Kinetic Blade form infusion when you're using the Kinetic Whip form infusion, and so Kinetic Whip shouldn't block your one free use of Kinetic Blade as a part of an attack action.
If it were ever adjudicated under FAQ, I doubt that interpretation would be upheld.

[N. Jolly]

I think you could make a pretty solid case for using them together under RAW, since although Kinetic Whip 'functions as Kinetic Blade', it isn't Kinetic Blade. You're not using the Kinetic Blade form infusion when you're using the Kinetic Whip form infusion, and so Kinetic Whip shouldn't block your one free use of Kinetic Blade as a part of an attack action.
If it were ever adjudicated under FAQ, I doubt that interpretation would be upheld.

This could work if you could apply two form infusions to a single blast, but according to the text...


Each time the kineticist uses one of her kinetic blast wild talents, she can apply up to one associated form infusion and up to one associated substance infusion.

Sadly that makes this impossible, although it would be cool. Let me know if I'm misinterpreting what you're attempting to do here.

[Tulya]

This could work if you could apply two form infusions to a single blast, but according to the text... Sadly that makes this impossible, although it would be cool. Let me know if I'm misinterpreting what you're attempting to do here.

They're separate blasts for this usage. You announce a full-attack action, and as part of that full-attack, blast once as a non-action with Kinetic Whip, and blast once as a non-action with Kinetic Blade. You now have two blast weapons with which to make a full-attack, so you benefit from two-weapon fighting.

The reason it's rules questionable is that Kinetic Blade limits you to using the infusion once per attack action, and Kinetic Whip inherits that restriction because it functions as Kinetic Blade except as indicated.
From the strict RAW perspective, you don't violate the rules by using each form infusion as a separate blast in your attack because they're distinct form infusions, and they each only restrict you to using 'this' form infusion once per attack.
But it also seems fairly likely that the intention was not to allow two-weapon fighting with multiple kinetic weapons.

[N. Jolly]

They're separate blasts for this usage. You announce a full-attack action, and as part of that full-attack, blast once as a non-action with Kinetic Whip, and blast once as a non-action with Kinetic Blade. You now have two blast weapons with which to make a full-attack, so you benefit from two-weapon fighting.

The reason it's rules questionable is that Kinetic Blade limits you to using the infusion once per attack action, and Kinetic Whip inherits that restriction because it functions as Kinetic Blade except as indicated.
From the strict RAW perspective, you don't violate the rules by using each form infusion as a separate blast in your attack because they're distinct form infusions, and they each only restrict you to using 'this' form infusion once per attack.
But it also seems fairly likely that the intention was not to allow two-weapon fighting with multiple kinetic weapons.

Okay, now I see what you're talking about, and yeah, RAW that does seem like it'd work, although wow is that a jerk move. So let me get this straight, in order of actions.

1. Declare full attack.
2. Create Kinetic Blade (as per its 'you can use this once during a full attack function'
3. Create Kinetic Whip (as per the same language)
4. Full TWF.

Am I getting that right? Yeah wow, that's...that's nasty. I feel like it'd fail under the 'create once during a full attack', considering them as the same ability for that line though.

[Kurald Galain]

Okay, now I see what you're talking about, and yeah, RAW that does seem like it'd work, although wow is that a jerk move.
I'd argue that by RAW it doesn't work, first because K Blast specifies that you never count as wielding the blast whereas TWF requires you to wield two weapons; second because Infusion specifies that you can't use two form infusions at the same time.

$.02

[Tulya]

I'd argue that by RAW it doesn't work, first because K Blast specifies that you never count as wielding the blast whereas TWF requires you to wield two weapons; second because Infusion specifies that you can't use two form infusions at the same time.

$.02

Unlike other blasts, the Kinetic Weapons are explicitly weapons created in your hand. I don't think the rules text within the blasts are sufficient to enable them to function as intended without the implicit understanding that they're being wielded.
As to the second point, I don't recall seeing any such text beyond what was already posted - that each kinetic blast wild talent can only have up to 1 form infusion and 1 substance infusion.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I think you're over estimating Elemental Annihilator. Giving up all of your Utility Wild Talents makes your character effectively a martial with a neat weapon and lower damage. Damage potential is also going to be lower than other martial classes on the whole, due to lack of enchantments or other class features.

This is especially bad at levels 1 & 2 as you don't qualify for Weapon Focus or Power Attack, so you're going to be behind on both accuracy and damage. At level 3 you can finally have either Power Attack or Piranha Strike and you get your Elemental Overflow accuracy so you're slight better off, but the normal martials now have a Masterwork weapon and will soon have their first +1. They may have other class features that boost their damage too, while for some reason you give up yours.

You're also in a weird spot where you can't TWF until level 6, but start picking up the feats for it at level 2. This means you probably want a Two-Handed blast at early levels, but you can't Finesse one of those so you have to invest in Strength? But you don't get heavy armor so your AC will be terrible or you have to go really MAD.

Sorry, but I just think this archetype is bad for too many levels to be worth taking. It could be fixed, say by actually giving you full BAB or letting you count your BAB as your class level for feats. Alternatively, if you could use energy blasts and got your elemental overflow damage you could make a passable (though MAD) switch hitter.

[Draco_Lord]

I am just curious, but can you explain why Merfolk need strong tail to work? At least if you are going with Aether, Air, or Fire? It just means for 5 levels you aren't going to be moving much, but by 6th you'll have an other, constant, way of moving.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I am just curious, but can you explain why Merfolk need strong tail to work? At least if you are going with Aether, Air, or Fire? It just means for 5 levels you aren't going to be moving much, but by 6th you'll have an other, constant, way of moving.

Technically you don't, but a 5ft move speed is a pretty significant handicap for 5 full levels. That's going to be 1/3 of an average game.

[N. Jolly]

I think you're over estimating Elemental Annihilator. Giving up all of your Utility Wild Talents makes your character effectively a martial with a neat weapon and lower damage. Damage potential is also going to be lower than other martial classes on the whole, due to lack of enchantments or other class features.

This is especially bad at levels 1 & 2 as you don't qualify for Weapon Focus or Power Attack, so you're going to be behind on both accuracy and damage. At level 3 you can finally have either Power Attack or Piranha Strike and you get your Elemental Overflow accuracy so you're slight better off, but the normal martials now have a Masterwork weapon and will soon have their first +1. They may have other class features that boost their damage too, while for some reason you give up yours.

You're also in a weird spot where you can't TWF until level 6, but start picking up the feats for it at level 2. This means you probably want a Two-Handed blast at early levels, but you can't Finesse one of those so you have to invest in Strength? But you don't get heavy armor so your AC will be terrible or you have to go really MAD.

Sorry, but I just think this archetype is bad for too many levels to be worth taking. It could be fixed, say by actually giving you full BAB or letting you count your BAB as your class level for feats. Alternatively, if you could use energy blasts and got your elemental overflow damage you could make a passable (though MAD) switch hitter.

I still think the damage potential of it overall is worth it, despite the problems. It's a low green I'll admit, but I'm not using a system that has such exacting measurements, since especially for me, my games are in the 3-15 range, which makes the level 1-2 hurdles not as bad. I mentioned that you're basically a martial with it already, but you do have more varied options for fighting than most martials (who have very, VERY little), but I think that versatility is enough to make this archetype viable. I'm assuming a strength build here anyways since you're going to be two handing for the damage bonus and power attack, and depending on your elemental defense (mithril breastplate + a few traits bring it down to 0 ACP), your defenses will be fine.


I am just curious, but can you explain why Merfolk need strong tail to work? At least if you are going with Aether, Air, or Fire? It just means for 5 levels you aren't going to be moving much, but by 6th you'll have an other, constant, way of moving.

Air's the only one that as an immediate allows this to really work, since self TK/flame jet requires a standard action to use and move with, meaning that you need to have greater self tk/flame jet, which takes even longer to get active. There's too long in most people's games where you're going to have a movement speed of 5 in a non aquatic game to make it viable, and really, does dropping your swim speed really hurt that much?

[dascarletm]

I just want to thank you for the guide. I am currently playing an earth kineticist, and I found the guide most helpful in it's reorganization of all the wild talents. It has been a large help.

[Tulya]

Notably, the Elemental Annihilator may be able to form a light weapon to benefit from Weapon Finesse, and also wield the weapon in two-hands for 1.5 x Con.
[Edit: Completely rewritten argument below.]

Devastating Infusion is merely a form infusion which modifies the function of your Kinetic Blast talent - you're still using the ability. This has some interesting rules implications because effects like Kinetic Blast don't calculate damage the same way most weapons do. For example, size changes should not alter the damage of a Devastating Blast any more than it does the Kinetic Blade talent it's explicitly based upon.

More pertinent to our fiendish purposes, the damage calculations wholly replace the calculations of your normal blast damage. As with Kinetic Blade, your Strength modifier is simply not factor in determining the damage, while your Constitution modifier is. This is in direct contrast similar effects where an explicit replacement/substitution occurs, implying inheritance of the original modifier's properties.

Thus, the general rule for Strength modifiers (a light weapon wielded in two hands does not gain the bonus damage) has no relevance to the specific rule (you get +1.5x Con modifier to your Devastating Infusion blasts if you wield them as a melee weapon in two hands) because the Constitution modifier to damage neither is, nor ever was, a Strength modifier.


*Nothing prevents you from either finessing a two-handed weapon (ex: Spiked Chain), nor wielding a light weapon in two hands. (Which is why there's a rule that you don't get the bonus damage when you do.)

**Kinetic Fist is not a counterexample to the above because it is nothing more than a damage buff based on blast damage dice applied to unarmed and natural attacks.

[Vhaidara]

I just thought of something. How would it effect the Kineticist's DPR if the +Con mod or +1/2 Con mod was added per die instead of just once?

[NightbringerGGZ]

I just thought of something. How would it effect the Kineticist's DPR if the +Con mod or +1/2 Con mod was added per die instead of just once?

It would go up significantly and would eventually outpace other damage dealing builds.

[N. Jolly]

Traits and other such things are up, multiclassing is bare since I really don't much like the idea of it for this class especially with how little it needs feats, the main reason for multiclassing with a more martial minded class.

Really aside from magical gear and sample builds, this thing is about done, which is nice to say.

[Mathias1313]

I really enjoyed the guide, thanks.

I have kinda a silly question, don't know if I am just daft or what.

Under Infusions, it says that "The DC for a save against an infusion is based on the associated kinetic blast's effective level, no the level of the infusion."
Sooooo do I just not understand what this implies cause Im not seeing a Level tied to the blast itself, not even on the Comp Blasts. All I see are the lvl associated with the Infusions.... what am I not getting?

[Kurald Galain]

The guide is looking good!

I have one suggestion. Regarding the feats and traits, I would say that it's clearer to group them by function, instead of by the book they came from. For example, see the below excerpt from another guide. This would make it easier for players to find a good feat for the build they're working on. What do you think of that?

Defensive Feats
Combat Casting - At lower levels, you may want this to ensure you can safely pull off a cantrip or 1st-level spell in combat, although with good tactics you might not need it. At higher levels, your concentration check will be good enough that you don't need this, so you can retrain it.
Deific Obedience: Abadar / Nethys - Worshipping Abadar gives you a decent bonus on saving throws, whereas Nethys boosts your concentration checks and gives you a few useful spells at higher level.
Divine Defiance - A good defensive feat, it increases your saving throws against divine casters and demonic opponents, which in many campaigns you'll be facing a lot.

Metamagic Feats
Empower Spell / Maximize Spell - Because of the level increase, it turns out that Intensify Spell is simply better for a Magus. For example, Shocking Grasp deals 35 damage in a level 2 slot with intensify, 24 damage in a level 3 slot with empower, and 30 in a level 4 slot with maximize. Fireball deals 52 damage in a level 4 slot with intensify, 52 damage in a level 5 slot with empower, and 60 damage in a level 6 slot with maximize. Empower is strictly worse, maximize doesn't add enough damage to justify a spell slot two levels higher.
Intensify Spell - A staple for any Magus build that uses damaging spells, it keeps your low-level spell slots relevant for much longer as it increases the damage cap by a whopping five levels. It becomes even better if you mix it with traits like Metamagic Master.
Quicken Spell - Since you have several ways to cast spells as a swift action already, you probably want to do so without having to use a slot four levels higher. At level 15 and up, this feat does become make a good combo with Spell Perfection.

Mobility Feats
Dimensional Agility - How would you like an 800' range pounce ability? That's what this feat is for. Normally the spell Dimension Door ends your turn, but with this feat you can use spell combat with DD to teleport at least 800', buff yourself with a swift action, then make a full attack at your destination. That is nothing short of awesome.
Fleet - Adds 5' to your movement rate; particularly nice on the slower races. Once you get reliable access to flight, you should retrain this.
Force Dash - Given the high mobility afforded by the Fly spell and movement-boosting spells like Bladed Dash and Burst of Speed, there's no need to spend a feat on this.

Offensive Feats
Arcane Strike / Riving Strike - While they seem fitting for a Magus at first, in practice you have so many better things to spend your swift action on that you don't have much use for them.
Dervish Dance / Fencing Grace - If you're a dex Magus, this allows you to add your best ability modifier to damage, and should be your first feat after its prerequisites. A str Magus or int Magus doesn't need this.
Improved Critical - You can do this with your enchant weapon ability as early as level 5, so there's no need to wait until level 11 to take this feat.

Toolbox Feats
Additional Traits - Since you cannot normally retrain traits, this is how you can pick them up if you see some new ones you really like; see the section below for examples.
Combat Stamina - A new subsystem from the Pathfinder Unchained book, it gives you a stamina pool that you can use to boost certain feats. Unfortunately, none of the feats in this section gain a worthwhile benefit from this, except for Improved Initiative; so you should consider the feat for a martial character instead, not a gish.
Craft Magic Arms and Armor / Craft Wondrous Item - If your campaign allows for crafting and has sufficient downtime, this gives you the opportunity to get a lot of good items at a 50% discount. You can even retrain the feat once you're done crafting.

[N. Jolly]

I really enjoyed the guide, thanks.

I have kinda a silly question, don't know if I am just daft or what.

Under Infusions, it says that "The DC for a save against an infusion is based on the associated kinetic blast's effective level, no the level of the infusion."
Sooooo do I just not understand what this implies cause Im not seeing a Level tied to the blast itself, not even on the Comp Blasts. All I see are the lvl associated with the Infusions.... what am I not getting?

Yeah, I thought the same thing at first, but in the kinetic blast section, it reads that the kinetic blast's spell level is always treated as 1/2 of your level, regardless of other factors, which makes it a non issue.


The guide is looking good!

I have one suggestion. Regarding the feats and traits, I would say that it's clearer to group them by function, instead of by the book they came from. For example, see the below excerpt from another guide. This would make it easier for players to find a good feat for the build they're working on. What do you think of that?

While I could do it like that, some people are limited on which books they can use, and so I like to list each feat by book so that people who are so limited are able to select the feats that they're allowed to instead of leaving the sources out. Really the etc section is for random stuff that will generally only fly at an anything goes table.

[Hiro]

Big fan of your Guides here. But I do have a question/suggestion for them in general.

Have you ever considered adding a bit of "A day in the life of..." toward the end? Just so people can see your opinion on how a char of the class described could be played as an example? Or your own experience?

[N. Jolly]

Big fan of your Guides here. But I do have a question/suggestion for them in general.

Have you ever considered adding a bit of "A day in the life of..." toward the end? Just so people can see your opinion on how a char of the class described could be played as an example? Or your own experience?

Huh, never thought of doing something like that, could you elaborate on what that would involve? I'm not opposed to something like that, although adding it for all of my active guides would be difficult. For those who are curious, my active guides are:

Alchemist
Gunslinger
Kineticist
Investigator
Character Creation

Inactive guides (those that won't be updated unless donated to):
Barbarian
Synthesis

[Talieth]

Hey, that's a very nice guide you have here.

I just have a suggestion about multi classing : whereas "normal" multiclass is no good (loss of caster level ...), the variant multiclass from pathfinder unchained can offer interessting choices.
And feats are not that important for kineticist ...

Here is an example of what Aether and a rogue VMC can do.


HalfElf Aether
Half-elf(Spireborn) kineticist 7/rogue*
CG Medium humanoid (elf,human)
Init +7; Senses low-lightvision; Perception +13
Defense
AC 11,touch 10, flat-footed 11 (+1 armor)
hp 96(7d8+42)
Fort +13, Ref +12, Will +8;+2 vs. enchantments
DefensiveAbilities fortification15%; Immune sleep
Offense
Speed 30ft.
Melee hanbo+10 (1d6-1)
SpecialAttacks sneakattack +1d6
KineticistSpell-Like Abilities(CL7th; concentration +8)
Atwill—basic telekinesis
KineticistWild Talents Known
Defense—forceward
Infusions—bowlinginfusion, extended range, foe throw (DC 18), kineticblade
Blasts—forceblast (4d6+7 force), telekinetic blast (4d6+14)
Utility—basictelekinesis, kinetic cover, telekinetic finesse, telekinetic haul,telekinetic invisibility
Statistics
Str 9, Dex 20, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 12
BaseAtk +5; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats WeaponFinesse, Weapon Focus (kineticist blast)
Traits elvenreflexes, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics+15, Disable Device +19, Perception +13, Sleight of Hand +15 (+17 toconceal the ring in a search), Stealth +15, Survival +1 (+3 to avoidbecoming lost), Use Magic Device +11;RacialModifiers +2Perception
Languages Azlanti,Common, Draconic, Elven
SQ burn,elemental focuses and expanded elements (aether,expanded element [aether]),elemental overflow, elf blood, force ward, gather power, infusionspecialization, infusions (bowling infusion,extended range,foe throw [dc 18],kinetic blade),internal buffer 1, kinetic blast, metakinesis, trapfinding +3,utility wild talents (telekinetic finesse,telekinetic haul,telekinetic invisibility
CombatGear caltrops,cold iron (2); OtherGear hanbo, beltof physical might +2 (Dex, Con), cloakof resistance +2, crackedmagenta prism ioun stone, handyhaversack, versatilevest, wayfinderI,belt pouch, blanket,masterwork thieves' tools, thieves' ring, torch (5), trail rations(5), waterskin, 1,689 gp, 5 cp
SpecialAbilities
BasicTelekinesis (At will) (Sp)Thisability is similar to mage hand, except you can move an object thatweighs up to 5 pounds per 2 kineticist levels you possess (minimum 5pounds), and you can move magical objects.
BowlingInfusionBlastalso trips foes.
Burn2/round (7 nonlethal/burn, 9/day)BurnHP to gain greater effects on your wild talents.
ElementalOverflow +2/+4 (Max +2, +2 CON, +2 DEX, 15% fortification) (Ex)Gaina bonus to hit and damage with your blast when you use burn.
ElfBloodHalf-elvescount as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
ElvenImmunities - SleepYouare immune to magic sleep effects.
ExtendedRangeKineticblast has range of 120ft.
FoeThrow (DC 18)Throwa creature if it fails its save.
ForceBlast (Sp)Level3; Burn 2
ForceWard (7 hp +3 hp/burn) (Su)Gain7 temporary hp
Fortification15%Youhave a chance to negate critical hits on attacks.
GatherPower (Su)Move:reduce the burn cost of a blast by 1 or Full-round: reduce the burncost of a blast by 2
InfusionSpecialization 1 (Ex)Reduceburn cost of blasts with infusions by 1
InternalBuffer 1 (Su)Storeburn for use later
KineticBladeCreatea blade of pure energy.
KineticBlast (Sp)Thekineticist can unleash her kinetic blast at a range of 30 feet atwill.
KineticCover (Sp)Awall for one face of a square within 30 ft appears.
Low-LightVisionSeetwice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color anddetail.
Metakinesis(1 burn: Empower) (Su)Byaccepting burn you affect your kinetic blast as if using a metamagicability.
SneakAttack +1d6Attacksdeal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
TelekineticBlast (Sp)Level3; Burn 0
TelekineticFinesse (Sp)Usetelekinesis to perform Sleight of Hand and Disable Devicechecks.
TelekineticHaul (Sp)Movean object that weighs up to 100 lbs. per kineticistlevel.
TelekineticInvisibility (Sp)Grantsinvisibility
Trapfinding+3Gaina bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.


You are the party rgoue, able to scout and safely disarm trap. At will invisibility, telekinetic finesse and rank in disable device and sleight of hand mean that you can do your job safely and efficiently.
And when it is time to fight, well, you can still blast. Or turn invisible and use telekinetic haul to do nasty things ... indirectly, while staying invisible.

Other VMC might be also useful for overwhelming soul (oracle, sorcerer, bard ...)

[Hiro]

Huh, never thought of doing something like that, could you elaborate on what that would involve? I'm not opposed to something like that, although adding it for all of my active guides would be difficult. For those who are curious, my active guides are:

Alchemist
Gunslinger
Kineticist
Investigator
Character Creation

Inactive guides (those that won't be updated unless donated to):
Barbarian
Synthesis


Well Take Gunslinger for example. Just take one of the archetypes you describe (based on the Snake Eater cast) and give a short story about a character that could be built around it; to give a short example of possible gamplay with that build. Like how they'd handle situations that crop up?

[N. Jolly]

Guide has been updated for Wood and Void. My thoughts on each are as follows

Void
With void reviewed, initial opinion...isn't great. Void feels like water but with less utility. It feels like a one trick pony with how darkness works, there's a larger amount of rehashed talents than I would like, a lacking elemental defense (something water easily beats it at), and while Negative Blast and Enervating Infusion are like children to me, I'm actually not sure if that's enough to sell the element to me. Gravity Master comes too late to feel like a real tool, the only real 'trick' the class has is darkness infusion + eyes of the void which needs Snake to be genuinely viable to me, and it risk disrupting the party.

Overall, it's strange that this element somehow manages to be exciting and boring at the same time.

Wood

Wood though...oh boy, freaking wood...It's funny, everyone was talking about void so I figured it'd be the 'cool' one and wood would be the 'dependable' one like water. I was wrong.

Infusions
Everything it gets that's good is a retread of earth to the point where you might as well call it "Earth's crappy sibling." Seriously, the amount of copy and paste for the infusion section was painful, and I was really hoping for things from wood. The few unique infusions from wood are trash based on poison effects which by the point the game gives you these abilities are defended against by most major opponents like undead/constructs/most outsides/PLANTS (which the class wants us to deal with a lot) and others. I didn't think I could be THIS underwhelmed, but here we are. I seriously consider Toxic Infusion an insult to the rest of the class's balance. If it was nauseated, fine, take them out for a round, but sickened? The hell?

Wild Talents
I almost fell asleep reviewing these, no joke. It's again 'Earth lite' in the fact that it and earth are the only 'ground bound' elements (even water can kind of traverse the sky), but everything wood gets is so deeply entrenched in being in a forest that it makes you wonder if it was ever meant to leave one. Seriously, whereas infusions were boring since there was nothing new, wild talents were boring because everything new was just too specific. Nothing there felt like you could use it in most APs (maybe kingmaker?) or most situations, just in the forest. Nothing unique from the class broke a green rating, and some of those were just barely green.

[N. Jolly]

Yo, update to the guide, added the first and probably only third party product to it, but also added the associated blast of all infusions. Sure makes earth and metal seem a hell of a lot better, that's for sure.

[Florian]

You can do weird stuff with Void, the Elemental Ascetic and the Nightmare Fist feat chain, though.

[Vhaidara]

Oh, you're not going to add the DSP archetypes to it? They actually make it playable.

[N. Jolly]

You can do weird stuff with Void, the Elemental Ascetic and the Nightmare Fist feat chain, though.

I'll have to check that out since I know Nightmare Fist has some weird jazz it does with darkness.


Oh, you're not going to add the DSP archetypes to it? They actually make it playable.

Didn't even know they did anything with it, and even if I did, it doesn't fit the quota for 3p inclusion by my standards. And personally, I think it's plenty playable as is, even if it needs a bit of a guided hand to build (which is what I provide here.)

[Florian]

I'll have to check that out since I know Nightmare Fist has some weird jazz it does with darkness.

It´s a Drow thing and a weird one at that. On the bright side, it finally gives the kineticist something to spent his feat slots on, namely the whole bunch of Drow racial feats. You´ll end up with more at will SLAs than to shake a stick at.

Basic Tactic:
1st: Full Round Action: Cover area with Darkness, using Intimidate on all in the area.
2nd: Light up target with Quickened Faery Fire, then charge action/Stunning Fist.
3rd: Full Attack with Elemental Flurry, enjoying +4dmg/hit vs a shaken and stunned target, using Intimidate to escalate shaken/frightened one level further.

[Florian]

The Elemental Ascetic is worded a bit ambiguously. It´s not entirely clear what version of Monk it is based on and how stacking with Monk levels will work out. As an educated guess, I´d say old core Monk and regular stacking is in effect. But as far as I can see it, it would work with the Unchained Monk without any restrictions.

As an example build, I´d base that on dipping (Un)Monk and having the Monk features stack based on that choice. On a 15 level build appropriate for an AP, that would mean (Un)Monk2/Kineticist(Elemental Ascetic)13, ending up with a BAB of +11/+6/+1 and both Flurry of Blow bonus attacks at highest BAB. I include the second level of (Un)Monk because I like evasion and the headstart with BAB on a brawler.

Stats at PB20 could be: STR 10, DEX 17, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 13. (For people averse to negative attributes)

Start would be the two levels of (Un)Monk with Weapon Finesse, the automatic bonus feats, Combat Reflexes and Scorpion Style.
Rest would be levels in Chaokinetist and the slew of Drow Traits, as well as the Nightmare Fist line.
Elements should be a mix or either Void/Earth, Void/Air or in case of a really long game, all three.
Main element here is Eyes of the Void and Greater Eyes of the Void, so you can actually navigate in your own Darkness.

Now you´re actually running pretty Burn-free on this build. The archetype eliminates Burn cost on Kinetic Fist, a good deal of the main action comes from SLAs.

Edit: Unusually enough, you best friend is a Drow Order of the Eclipse Samurai, riding a Gecko...

[Nanoblack]

Super interested to see what your guide has to say about the three new elements; time in particular. It seems like some of the lower level infusions and wild talents fall off pretty hard as you level, especially distorted timeline.

Also, am I reading it correctly, that cerebral kineticist lets you grand intercession ad nauseum? Specifically, that mental barrier is basically DR for burn. How does it interact with defensive talents? Does it mean that you can basically pump up your defensive talent to max for free? Or did you mean to add "per day" to the end of that sentence? If so, it changes it from potentially really powerful to completely useless.

Edit: Reading further, how if the cerebral kineticist ever supposed to benefit from cerebral overflow? It looks like you're basically required to feeblemind yourself in order to gain any benefit.

Edit2: Also unlimited healing. Burn DR is really, really good.

[Talieth]

Another "interesting" combo for a chaokineticist is the Oracle VMC with the Bones mystery : at level 3 take the Bleeding wounds revelations, and from now on, all your negative energy blasts do 1 point of bleed damage... as per the bolded part in the revelation description.


Bleeding Wounds (Su): Whenever a creature takes damage from one of your spells or effects that causes negative energy damage (such as inflict light wounds or the death’s touch revelation), it begins to bleed, taking 1 point of damage each round. At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any effect that heals damage.

[N. Jolly]

Super interested to see what your guide has to say about the three new elements; time in particular. It seems like some of the lower level infusions and wild talents fall off pretty hard as you level, especially distorted timeline.

Also, am I reading it correctly, that cerebral kineticist lets you grand intercession ad nauseum? Specifically, that mental barrier is basically DR for burn. How does it interact with defensive talents? Does it mean that you can basically pump up your defensive talent to max for free? Or did you mean to add "per day" to the end of that sentence? If so, it changes it from potentially really powerful to completely useless.

Edit: Reading further, how if the cerebral kineticist ever supposed to benefit from cerebral overflow? It looks like you're basically required to feeblemind yourself in order to gain any benefit.

Edit2: Also unlimited healing. Burn DR is really, really good.

I won't be reviewing them myself, that'll be up to my associates as it's my content and I can't review it myself without being an even larger fraud than normal. As for Time, it basically REQUIRES you to take Time's Echo to make things work, but most of time's effects are strong enough that 1/2 rounds of them will help you mop up combat regardless. It is a tad weaker though, that much I will admit.

Did you ask these on the Paizo boards too? These questions look familiar...Either way, I'll answer again here:

Mental Barrier is meant more as an additional buffer, not as DR to burn. It protects against a total number of burn, not X burn at a time. It still counts towards Cerebral overflow though, so you don't need to brain drain yourself to get that far.


Another "interesting" combo for a chaokineticist is the Oracle VMC with the Bones mystery : at level 3 take the Bleeding wounds revelations, and from now on, all your negative energy blasts do 1 point of bleed damage... as per the bolded part in the revelation description.

That's a neat little combo, I'd say 'but it's not worth it', but Kineticist has nothing to do with its feats after point-blank shot/precise shot, so hell, I say go for it!

[Draco_Lord]

Super interested to see what your guide has to say about the three new elements; time in particular. It seems like some of the lower level infusions and wild talents fall off pretty hard as you level, especially distorted timeline.

Also, am I reading it correctly, that cerebral kineticist lets you grand intercession ad nauseum? Specifically, that mental barrier is basically DR for burn. How does it interact with defensive talents? Does it mean that you can basically pump up your defensive talent to max for free? Or did you mean to add "per day" to the end of that sentence? If so, it changes it from potentially really powerful to completely useless.

Edit: Reading further, how if the cerebral kineticist ever supposed to benefit from cerebral overflow? It looks like you're basically required to feeblemind yourself in order to gain any benefit.

Edit2: Also unlimited healing. Burn DR is really, really good.

Out of interest, where can I find these new elements?

[squiggit]

Out of interest, where can I find these new elements?

Third party, written by the guide creator himself. (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9ilq?Kineticists-of-Porphyra)

[N. Jolly]

Third party, written by the guide creator himself. (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9ilq?Kineticists-of-Porphyra)

That's right, and KOP 2 is hopefully coming out soon enough with even more additions.

Personally, I never thought I'd be including 3P in my guides, it actually relates back to a statement I made FAR earlier in my guide writing career. Someone asked if I was going to include X content from another 3P (I think it was DSP, but I can't remember), and my statement was before I thought of as a possibility is that I'd only include content for something I helped write.

That was probably back in the Barbarian guide or so (2 of 7), so I never thought I'd actually be writing for a 3P. But that changed when I saw someone looking for some writers for something. A year or so later and I'm actually doing 3P (that's doing rather well) and really I wanted to include it since as I stated, it is something I helped to write and I stand by my content 100%.

Personally at this point I don't know if I see myself as a designer who writes guides or a guide writer who designs, but I enjoy doing both quite a bit, so hopefully I'll end up working with more people to include more 3P in my guides. All I can say though is if it's something I'm involved in, it'll probably find its way to a guide as long as it's relevant.
As stated before, the 3P content is sectioned off entirely by itself, and doesn't affect the main guide. The main content of the guide is still being written and maintained by myself, while the 3P content is being reviewed by others. I've done my best to make sure the 3P content can be skipped if unwanted since I know some people aren't interested in that, and I want to accommodate everyone.

Speaking of which, the guide has been altered to include star ratings as well as color ratings for the colorblind; please let me know if this is helpful to those who have issues distinguishing between colors or if there is something else that would be more helpful in this respect.

[Shayx]

I'm sorry if this was stated or maybe I over looked something but how would a geo hit a wraith or undead that requires a magic weapon to hit. I know I can do expanded element to get the metal infusion but any other thoughts?

[Ringadon]

On re-reading the ability Internal Buffer I think should be slightly higher rated.
While it does have to be set up in advance there isn't a specific time that you have to take the full round action to accept the burn to build in the buffer. Therefore, you just do that right before sleeping for the night to clear out your burn for the day anyhow, so long as you've not maxed out your burn in that day you've just got that much more space.

EDIT: or at the very least some mention of this tactic is worthwhile.

Further edit:

I'm sorry if this was stated or maybe I over looked something but how would a geo hit a wraith or undead that requires a magic weapon to hit. I know I can do expanded element to get the metal infusion but any other thoughts?

All kinetic blasts are considered magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming DR, it is a safe extension of that logic that they similarly strike incorporeal as magic weapons.

Final Edit: (hopefully)
Where are you getting Greater voice of the wind? Currently playing an Aeromancer and I'm wanting to explore every option.

[N. Jolly]

On re-reading the ability Internal Buffer I think should be slightly higher rated.
While it does have to be set up in advance there isn't a specific time that you have to take the full round action to accept the burn to build in the buffer. Therefore, you just do that right before sleeping for the night to clear out your burn for the day anyhow, so long as you've not maxed out your burn in that day you've just got that much more space.

EDIT: or at the very least some mention of this tactic is worthwhile.

Further edit:


All kinetic blasts are considered magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming DR, it is a safe extension of that logic that they similarly strike incorporeal as magic weapons.

Final Edit: (hopefully)
Where are you getting Greater voice of the wind? Currently playing an Aeromancer and I'm wanting to explore every option.

To be fair, internal buffer is rated with that in mind, I just don't think that it makes it a ton better.

You're right about Kineticist, I always assumed it was magic too.

And since I can't remember it exactly, that probably means it was from Ultimate Intrigue, which only had 5 new talents...it wasn't great.

[Ringadon]

To be fair, internal buffer is rated with that in mind, I just don't think that it makes it a ton better.

You're right about Kineticist, I always assumed it was magic too.

And since I can't remember it exactly, that probably means it was from Ultimate Intrigue, which only had 5 new talents...it wasn't great.

Of course it would be the book I don't own yet... Ah well, In any case the guide has been incredibly useful and once I've played more than a few sessions with my new character I'll offer up any other thoughts I may have.

[Uhtred]

I haven't been able to find what happens with metakinesis on a critical hit with a kinetic blast, but then I have (as a guy who mostly plays melee classes, for simplicity's sake) never really been clear on what happens with regular metamagic if the mage using them scores a crit with a spell that uses an attack roll. I recall reading that the entire blast is doubled on a crit, but does the Empower happen before the doubling or after it? Do I really deal doubled maximum damage if I crit on a maximized blast?

[N. Jolly]

Of course it would be the book I don't own yet... Ah well, In any case the guide has been incredibly useful and once I've played more than a few sessions with my new character I'll offer up any other thoughts I may have.

You're not missing a ton without the talent, it's okay, but nothing to write home about. Glad you're enjoying the guide, I'm working to keep it as up to date as possible.


I haven't been able to find what happens with metakinesis on a critical hit with a kinetic blast, but then I have (as a guy who mostly plays melee classes, for simplicity's sake) never really been clear on what happens with regular metamagic if the mage using them scores a crit with a spell that uses an attack roll. I recall reading that the entire blast is doubled on a crit, but does the Empower happen before the doubling or after it? Do I really deal doubled maximum damage if I crit on a maximized blast?

From what understand, you would roll the empowered damage, and then double that upon a crit with an empowered blast, and you would straight up full double it on a maximized blast, although maximized blast isn't the best option here due to the cost.

Also Kineticists of Porphyra 3 will be added to the guide once its out, probably in a few weeks, although once it's in layout I'll probably end up adding it anyways to give everyone a preview of the new content.

[Triskavanski]

You know, I don't think you're giving the telekinetic entirely a fair cop here.


With a TK you're most powerful thing really isn't your kinetic blast.. Its the Basic Telekineses. Carrying out hordes of treasure is only one thing you can do with it. Other things you're capable of using it for..

Wagons. Or other tough surface. You're able to pick up a big large object and put said object between you and some sorry sod who wants to fill you full of more arrows than a 90s free website. Once you've got that wagon between you and him, you've got total cover. Sure he's got cover too, but at any moment you could throw that total cover right on top of him.

Again, wagons. You can lift an object weighing 100 pounds with that telekinetic haul per kinetist level. Depending on how heavy you are, you could pick up a wagon, that you're sitting in and float it around places. Yes its slow, and prone to being shot down. But you can do it and thats the more important aspect here, as with proper planning one could potentially use this to great effect.

And do remember.. You can also use the TK's blast to just throw the object. While reality breaks when you're throwing around small houses at people for only 3d6 points of damage, or damage of a 1h improvised item, you could do things like.. throw a bag of holding filled with alchemist fire at an enemy. As the bag would take damage, and obviously you'd never use this for anything other than that one last desperate move ( I'm sure other ways can be come up here to use this) It has the potential to just very easily level the playing field. Remember. Proper Planning.

Also, that second version of the blast that lets you throw the weapon.. Two ways it could happen, depending on GM. Method number 1 - Blast Limited - You 'throw' it, but only up to the distance of your blast with no range modifiers. Method 2) You use the weapon's range modifies to throw it (Which is what I believe it to be) allowing an Aether Kinetist the ability to throw the weapon outside their blasts normal reach.


Also, Kinetic Healer - Remember that Your Kinetic Shield ability charges every time you take burn. In a longer battle, you could throw out a kinetic healer, and heal not only your kinetic blast damage, but also gain additional Temp HP for your shield. Which.. Well if your shield gains enough HP to put you back over your unconscious amount if you fall unconscious.. You score!

[Kurald Galain]

YYou're able to pick up a big large object and put said object between you and some sorry sod who wants to fill you full of more arrows than a 90s free website. Once you've got that wagon between you and him, you've got total cover.
Then he takes a move action and shoots you anyway.


you could do things like.. throw a bag of holding filled with alchemist fire at an enemy. As the bag would take damage, and obviously you'd never use this for anything other than that one last desperate move
You don't need to be a kinny to do that; anyone can toss a bag of alchemist fires at an enemy.

[Triskavanski]

Then he takes a move action and shoots you anyway.


And thus instead instead of three arrows going into you, you've brought the number of attacks down to one with even this most base line tactics of just having a bit of cover between you and him.

You've also forced him to move. Which could be part of the follow your additional follow up tactics of leading him into a trap of somekind with the rest of the party.

Of course you could also be smart enough to have positioned yourself, the wagon and that enemy in such a way that most standard movement speeds wouldn't be enough to properly just "take a move action" to get around it.

[Kurald Galain]

And thus instead instead of three arrows going into you, you've brought the number of attacks down to one
...by reducing your own attacks from one to zero. This is really not an example of good tactics, and if that's the best a telekinetic can do, it shows that it's a very weak build.

[Triskavanski]

If the target wasn't in range of your telekinetic blast, you've not reduced your attacks from 1 to zero. You've reduced it from 0 to 0.

Mindlessly just trying to attack away every round also isn't a sound tactic. Even if you did go from 1 to 0 this round, you might have three rounds after that in which you'd be able to make up for the loss of damage. No one ever says to a wizard "Gee Wizard, I really wish you would have cast that acid arrow spell instead of preventing the horde of enemies from being able to fill our bodies full of arrows with your wall spell."

There is rarely, if ever, a single tactic that works in all situations, all the time, without treating everything like a nail. An Aether Kinect gets a tool box. Yes its not as big as a Wizard's tool box. And thats sad. But you still get a tool box of things to do.

[fendrin]

Just a thought, for a fire kineticist Half-orc seems like a purple option or at least blue:
Floating +2 stat, the FCB for extra damage, and the feat Fire God's Blessing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fire-god-s-blessing) for essentially fast-healing 1 in combat (and crazyness if your DM rules that FGB healing is magical, as they also have easy access to Fast Healer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fast-healer): Half-Orc racial trait Shaman's Apprentice to get Endurance, then just need Diehard).

I'm building my first kineticist, and having some contingency plans until I find a good balance of burn seems like a good idea. There's some interesting stuff that could be useful for any kineticist, but especially one that likes to ride high on burn:

Workman's Armor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/workman-s-armor) seems like a good choice and maybe upgrade it with vouchsafing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-special-abilities/vouchsafing) for more contingency.

For anyone taking Heroic Defiance, a defiant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/defiant) weapon would be handy. Put it on armor spikes or blade boot or something to keep your hands free.

Rat-tread boots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-rat-tread) could help too but you'd have to get the timing right and be willing to walk on rats.

A Decoy Ring (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/decoy-ring) might be a cheaper alternative to vouchsafing armor in the long run, and in combo with the workman's armor could get you a few rounds of invisibility shenanigans.

[N. Jolly]

Kineticists of Porphyra 3 has been added to the guide proper, and Occult Archetypes has been added to the 3rd party addendum.

I'll probably be adding more stuff later like the above items, but as for the moment I need to focus on putting out a new thing, so updates to the guide won't be super fast.

[N. Jolly]

Legendary Kineticists has been added to the guide, still waiting for the edits to be done on Everyman Options: Kineticists before it's added.

[Talieth]

Hi there !

I was playing with Hero Lab recently, and I found something neat with sorcerer (VMC) : the Aberrant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/aberrant-bloodline) bloodline lvl3 power give a scaling reach increase to melee touch attacks. Which all kinetic blade/whip electrical/fire/cold/negative energy are.
And this come online nearly at the same time than kinetic whip do. This mean 15' reach at level 9, and 20' at lvl11 (but you still threaten only at 20')


Long Limbs (Ex): At 3rd level, your reach increases by 5 feet whenever you are making a melee touch attack. This ability does not otherwise increase your threatened area. At 11th level, this bonus to your reach increases to 10 feet. At 17th level, this bonus to your reach increases to 15 feet.

[Manyasone]

How would you handle the burn mechanic, both the normal one and the brutal mutation one using the vigor and wounds system PF unchained introduced?

[Talieth]

Hey,

I read the Psychic Anthology last week and there are neat things there for the kineticist. There are also "things" for them better left alone.

The Good :
The feat Kinetic Invocation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/kinetic-invocation/) gives a lot of versatility. I am still a little incertain for one point : the feat mention that any non permanent, non-instantaneous effects end when your burn is removed. Does it mean that any spell that have a duration (like 1 minute/level (D) for Instant Armor) last until burn is removed with this ? If yes, this is even better.
It is also a great boon for all races which have a "<insert_element> affinity" racial trait, or an elemental subtype because they are considered to have this feat only for their element.
Kinetic Crafting ... allow you to craft ! You count your kineticist level as a caster level and can use wild talent that mention à spell name as prerequisite.

There are a bunch of new wild talents, but a few in particular seems good :
Telekinetic Boomerang for aether : use some big badass infusion on your blast, and if your miss, your can retry next round with the same infusion, free of cost. And the "object" used for your blast don't take damage.
Aether Architect brings even more utility to aether by allowing to create building or things out of aether. These construct have the same resistance as a wall of force. You need to make use of craft or knowledge (engineering) for more than simple construction. The really good thing is that for 1 burn, these construction persist until destroyed ! So the dragon you just killed has managed to destroy a village before going down ? no problem, you can just re-build it back, and it will be more solid than before.

The Bad :
As for the Elemental Knight archetype, well, the most I can say is that it is in line with the other archetypes... It gives you proficiency with medium/heavy armor and shield, and yes you can gather power with your shield. But your elemental defense only work when you wear heavy armor, so now you can't dump strength anymore. And you gain kinetic blade at lvl1 with 0 burn, but you can't ever use you kinetic blast without it, or other infusion that has kinetic blade as prerequisite.

The Ugly :
There are a bunch of wild talent for wood ... which is not as bad or ugly as I make it. I guess ?

[Triskavanski]

Hey,

I read the Psychic Anthology last week and there are neat things there for the kineticist. There are also "things" for them better left alone.

The Good :
The feat Kinetic Invocation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/kinetic-invocation/) gives a lot of versatility. I am still a little incertain for one point : the feat mention that any non permanent, non-instantaneous effects end when your burn is removed. Does it mean that any spell that have a duration (like 1 minute/level (D) for Instant Armor) last until burn is removed with this ? If yes, this is even better.
It is also a great boon for all races which have a "<insert_element> affinity" racial trait, or an elemental subtype because they are considered to have this feat only for their element.
Kinetic Crafting ... allow you to craft ! You count your kineticist level as a caster level and can use wild talent that mention à spell name as prerequisite.

There are a bunch of new wild talents, but a few in particular seems good :
Telekinetic Boomerang for aether : use some big badass infusion on your blast, and if your miss, your can retry next round with the same infusion, free of cost. And the "object" used for your blast don't take damage.
Aether Architect brings even more utility to aether by allowing to create building or things out of aether. These construct have the same resistance as a wall of force. You need to make use of craft or knowledge (engineering) for more than simple construction. The really good thing is that for 1 burn, these construction persist until destroyed ! So the dragon you just killed has managed to destroy a village before going down ? no problem, you can just re-build it back, and it will be more solid than before.

The Bad :
As for the Elemental Knight archetype, well, the most I can say is that it is in line with the other archetypes... It gives you proficiency with medium/heavy armor and shield, and yes you can gather power with your shield. But your elemental defense only work when you wear heavy armor, so now you can't dump strength anymore. And you gain kinetic blade at lvl1 with 0 burn, but you can't ever use you kinetic blast without it, or other infusion that has kinetic blade as prerequisite.

The Ugly :
There are a bunch of wild talent for wood ... which is not as bad or ugly as I make it. I guess ?

TK boomerang also has a hidden function too, in that you could pick up any object within 30 feet of you as a standard action. Could be useful if you get caught and in jail, or a few other reasons.


EK is even worse than that. You've not only gotta be wearing heavy armor, but have an attuned shield to get your elemental defense. Which means you need at least one point of burn now. The EK wouldn't be bad if it wasn't for that whole part there.

One of the ugly things is the utility version of Fox fire, which needs kinetic healer or void healer but is fire elemental.

[NamelessNPC]

Hey, jolly. There´s something I dont understand.
There are 2 energy composite blasts: blue flame and negative admixture. You rate blue flame blue but negative red. Is there something really simple that I dont understand? cause it seems to me that there are about as many undeads as creatures with fire resistance. Why arent they the same rating?