PDA

View Full Version : Adventure lies that way ->



Madeiner
2015-08-26, 08:21 PM
Hey there.
I am a DM for d&d 5th, and we are playing an adventure i designed.
The adventure was designed to go in a certain direction but, as it happens, the players paid a hefty price to (unkowingly) derail the plot and accomplish nothing.
The adventure will go on, but i fear the players will not take well what happened, so i want your input.


Synopsis of what happened:

PCs need to recover documents to find someone, and infiltrate a villa with the help of a shady individual. This is happening in Curst, gate-town to Carceri, and the PCs know well almost everyone is a criminal or a betrayer of sorts.
PCs recover documents, return to shady individual which has set up a plan to get them arrested. Meanwhile, they have shown the documents to a friend of theirs, who is trying to gather information about the person they need to find.

However the PCs (unkowingly) evade the first ambush. They (unkowingly) give enough time for the shady individual to setup another at another place (they still trust him), and fall into his trap.
Guards (and yugoloth) ask them to surrender, and then clearly fight to take them prisoner.
Their friend was "scheduled" to come and find them during the fight, warning them he found the person they were looking for: he is in prison. However, the PCs have not told their friend where they were going to go someplace else to deliver the documents, so he doesn't know where they are, and cannot come to drop the "hint".

PCs are overwhelmed during the fight, and one character decided to sacrifice a powerful artifact in order to escape capture, and avoid prison. Another has lost powerful weapons that can never be recovered (sparing more story...)
They will soon find out the person they were looking for was in prison, and if they want to get to him, they'll have to get inside somehow. Now, this could mean they devise another strategy to get in, instead of being captured. Still, they sacrificed their artifacts for basically zero gain.
Would this annoy you? Should i retcon my story so that the NPC they need is, in fact, not in prison

TLDR: PCs, by chance, miss a clue that the next part of the adventure lies in a prison. They sacrifice powerful artifacts in order to avoid being captured and sent to said prison. Adventure STILL lies in the prison, and artifacts are lost for good. Should i retcon the story NOT to need them to get to the prison, to avoid annoyances?

Kane0
2015-08-26, 09:09 PM
Did you use the rule of three?
You give three clues or prompts for each plot event, especially the important ones.

If the pcs miss or ignore all three, its not your fault and proceed as intended.
If you did not provide three clues/prompts/reminders, or they did not come up then the PCs get benefit of the doubt and you adjust accordingly.

Knaight
2015-08-26, 09:09 PM
You shouldn't change the setting. With that said, having exactly one option to take and having a pre-scripted story you want the players to follow in the first place is a bit of a problem.

goto124
2015-08-26, 09:48 PM
PCs "need to [perform a set of actions]"... PCs "are overwhelmed during the fight"... so many "PCs will do X". Among other details. So many things can go wrong.

What if they devise a totally different strategy? What if they come up with a way to run away? What if they defeat the guards? Are you going to make the guards supremely overpowered or something?

Heck, are the players aware they're in a sense playing an adventure path? Something that, I suspect, more closely resembles a scripted storyline of a computer game?

Ninja_Prawn
2015-08-27, 01:11 AM
The rule of three is not perfect or flawless, but I believe it would have prevented this situation from happening.

I advise you to adapt to their moves. Shuffle things around behind the scenes - maybe a jailbreak... or a new 'friend' of the imprisoned party who asks the party to help.

TheThan
2015-08-27, 01:41 AM
I see you fell victim to one of the classic DM blunders; assuming players will take the hint.
(Others include but not limited to: assuming pcs will follow the plot, miscalculating party strength, and the classic, there’s only one way to advance the plot.)

Anyway to advance your plot along, the PC’s informer finds them and tells them that they need to bust the person of interest out of jail. Now you’ve successfully got the plot back on track, and given them a reason to get locked up, infiltrate the a jail or straight up assault it (never rule out a direct assault by PCs). Turn the jail into a dungeon if you haven’t already and everything should work itself out.

The best advice I can give you is to not sweat the small stuff and let the PCs dig their own graves I mean give you ideas on how the adventure will unravel next. they're partly responsible for the plot after all, so don't be afraid to steal ideas from them (just don't make it too obvious that's what your doing).

Broken Crown
2015-08-27, 05:15 AM
You shouldn't change the setting. With that said, having exactly one option to take and having a pre-scripted story you want the players to follow in the first place is a bit of a problem.

This.

All is not lost for your plot, though: The PCs still need to infiltrate the prison (unless they think of some other way to bypass that part of the adventure), but now they're free to do it on their own terms. They can work out what strategy seems to them most effective for doing this. (It may even involve allowing themselves to get captured.)

Thanks to successfully fighting off their opponents, the PCs are still largely in control of their own actions. As a player, I would probably consider this to be worth a sizeable sacrifice.

MrStabby
2015-08-27, 06:09 AM
So the guards were a tough fight - enough that they used artefacts to survive but survive they did.

This means the challenge was pretty damn high. I would give the party a boost to their reputation for surviving - NPCs give them more respect/are more easily intimidated by them etc.. This helps them feel their sacrifices have accomplished something and, if you let them use their enhanced reputation for being badasses to get into the prison or get the other guy out (or persuade others to help in some way) it means that the resources they used to survive are things the party may begin to see as an investment in advancing the plot.

Also if they killed a bunch of guards they may make some friends that way - who can help them, or at least sell/side quest them some new equipment to help offset their loss.

Lord Torath
2015-08-27, 08:22 AM
Now you've got a great opportunity to have an infiltration mission. Let the PCs' friend tell them their target is in jail, and let them plan their break in. For an added bonus, some or all of the magic items lost in the previous combat could be stored in an "evidence room" at the jail, and will also be available for rescue, along with new items you want to include.

Things to think about: Is there a way for the PCs to get a general layout of the jail's interior? Are any of the guards susceptible to bribes? Are there three clues or so alluding to that fact? Where are the keys kept? Is there a way to tell who's in for what? The PCs may or may not want to release other prisoners, and if they do, they'll probably not want to release those rightfully imprisoned if they're trying to keep a good reputation. What are the jail's security protocols? How do they respond to unauthorized personnel in the jail? Are there any guards who are just too lazy to be bothered?

Lorsa
2015-08-27, 09:05 AM
Would this annoy you? Should i retcon my story so that the NPC they need is, in fact, not in prison

The only thing that would annoy me is that the DM is clearly devising a very linear adventure, including ideas on plot (how the story should progress). It wouldn't annoy me much to use powerful artifacts to escape capture (who wants to be captured), but rather that I used them when the DM secretly wanted me to get captured.

A better way to think of the adventure is:

Goal: PCs are trying to locate and get in contact with person A, whom is currently residing in prison.

- The above is basically all you need to plan for, but to help your improvisation it is good to come up with three different ways in which the players could find out where person A is, that they could potentially come into contact with.

Method: They have learned about the existence of documents that might tell of person A's whereabouts and try to get their hands on them, with the help of shady person B.

Completion of document step: Handing over the documents to friend C for interpretation.

Extra problem: Person B is a backstabbing bastard and is trying to set up an ambush for them. There should not be a pre-planned ending for this encounter (or else it is useless), although a negative outcome (them loosing) not implying a failed adventure, but rather an extra complication, can be a good thing.

Progression of document method: Friend C deciphers that person A is in prison.

Resolution: The PCs device and execute a plan to get in touch with person A.

Potential second resolution: If the extra problem ends negatively, the players might be placed in jail where they will encounter person A anyway, but now have the added problem of getting out without much equipment.

- Your problem is that you made your extra problem into the way they were "supposed" to get into prison, thus making the fight unnecessarily hard (making them expend valuable artifacts to survive). Essentially though, the players are back to the position they should have been in the first place; they know where A is and now have to come up with a plan to get in contact with him. It is always good to avoid having encounters where you as DM expect a certain outcome for "your story" to advance.

The Grue
2015-08-27, 09:29 AM
Their friend was "scheduled" to come and find them during the fight, warning them he found the person they were looking for: he is in prison.

How was this supposed to work, exactly? The NPC shows up, everybody calls time-out to have a little chat over tea, then the fight resumes?

Segev
2015-08-27, 09:47 AM
I suggest proceeding with them discovering this information, and seeing what they do with it. They worked hard and sacrificed much to stay out of prison; they likely will devise a means of getting into it on their own terms, rather than as prisoners. If you're concerned about their gear loadout not being sufficient, give them a side quest or two to recover a bit.

I assure you that players can be most inventive when presented with a problem, and not told how they must solve it. That's what you need to do here.

Do not tell them, "see, if you'd just gone along with being imprisoned, you'd have met him and found a way to break out." Instead, let them decide whether their escape was worth it.

It can be a powerful thing to bust into a place under your own power, rather than going in meekly as prisoners. It also gives you more freedom within the place, because you're equipped for it rather than having to deal with the limitations deliberately put on you by your captors.

Madeiner
2015-08-27, 01:02 PM
How was this supposed to work, exactly? The NPC shows up, everybody calls time-out to have a little chat over tea, then the fight resumes?

Nah, but he would have been to shout something in-code; the PC would have recognized the "hint" and they could have decided to stop and surrender. Or not.
If i DID give the hint, i would have no problems at all: if they still decided to sacrifice the artifacts to escape, knowing that they have to go to the prison anyway, that would have been a choice.
However, as it stands, they had no idea they would need to go the prison anyway, if they are to continue this part of the story.

Just for giggles, their friend would have shouted "damn criminals! You will rot in prison for unos, dos, no... TRIAS annos in prison!"
Spoken in fake spanish, and the name of the person they need to find in prison is TRIAS, of course.


Yes of course, having escaped now, they dont have to go as prisoners. Or if they do, they can leave their precious gear behind, rather than having it seized and recovered it, as they seem to be very concerned with losing their gear (it never happened)

Freelance GM
2015-08-28, 11:38 AM
For future reference, the beautiful thing about being a DM is that you don't actually have to be smarter than the players.

If you want to have the players get ambushed by a scheming villain, then they get ambushed. It doesn't matter if they actually went to the place the the ambush was supposed to occur.

This actually makes the scheming villain seem even smarter, because you (as the villain) can retroactively say, "Ah, now the logical assumption would be that you would have gone to [originally planned ambush location], but I was smarter than that! I had an informant follow you the last few hours, and he managed to tip me off just in time that you were actually going to [current location]! And a good thing, too! If I had gone to [original location], you would have completely missed my nasty surprise!

However, this also characterizes the villain as a giant, scheming ****, so use this as frequently as possible sparingly. Or, if they do something especially unpredictable, let them get away with it, to show that the villain is not quite as omniscient as you- the DM- are.

Segev
2015-08-28, 12:22 PM
Freelance GM's advice is accurate, but be cautious in utilizing it. Do it too often, and it becomes obvious you're post-hoc'ing the villain's decisions. That can quickly make it feel like the players' choices do not matter.

Always try to make the players' choices matter, even if you have to change your plans to get things you need to happen. When you change things around, reflect some advantage from what the players chose that forced you to change it.

If the villain had to plan for an ambush in a place that doesn't make as much sense, perhaps it's a weaker ambush, or he has to use more troops to get the same effect, and it costs him elsewhere.

Make sure that the players are not merely walking along a linear path that LOOKS like it has places to turn.

The Grue
2015-08-29, 12:22 AM
Caviet to Sergev's excellent post: "Always try to make the players' choices matter, unless you're playing a game with Lovecraftian horror themes in which the player's choices actually don't matter because humans are insignificant motes of dust in the cold uncaring void of space". :smallbiggrin:

Which is to say, the one time it's okay to unabashedly run your villains as post-hoc geniuses is when your villains are Elder Gods.

Darth Ultron
2015-08-29, 07:01 AM
TLDR: PCs, by chance, miss a clue that the next part of the adventure lies in a prison. They sacrifice powerful artifacts in order to avoid being captured and sent to said prison. Adventure STILL lies in the prison, and artifacts are lost for good. Should i retcon the story NOT to need them to get to the prison, to avoid annoyances?

You should not change the general behind the table top story too much. If something was set to happen, it should still happen. But small additions always work. Like the prisoner might leave the prison on a work detail. Or have a day in court. Or maybe get moved to another prison.

You don't want to retcon things just as the players pick another path.


Also, players will always use powerful items at the wrong time. Always. It is better to not have such items. A player will always use ''the god king sword +20 '' to kill a goblin, and not save it for the demon lord.

Jay R
2015-08-29, 10:10 AM
Players defeating the people who were supposed to capture them happens even in the best of scenarios (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html). The plot can survive it.

Don't retcon the past; create a new future. The prisoner escapes, or they find out he's there and break in, finding other cool stuff and making enemies in the process.

Even more fun (if you can make it interesting and not just frustrating): they break in and discover that he has already escaped.

For that matter, do you want the next couple of adventures to be a comedy of errors as they and the prisoner keep missing each other? That way, their previous misadventure of escaping the guards becomes part of the plot, rather than a plot-breaking problem.