Dwarven Resilience

[ZenBear]

I roll with advantage to save against poison damage, pass and still take half. Is it one quarter damage? Take half for successful save, resist half of what I take?

[Shaofoo]

Yes it should be quarter damage. Damage was halved because of the saving throw which then becomes the base damage that you will take which is then halved again due to resistance. Multiple resistances don't stack but making saving throws isn't an instance of resistance

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Shaofuu's right. Dwarves are basically nearly immune to poison.

[Alerad]

As a DM I have a big issue with this and the Green dragons. Two of my players are a dwarf and a stout halfling. The other three aren't. If I am to pit them against a green dragon (the one from the starter set for example) it's the difference between instant death and small inconvenience. Seems like a tough choice :)

[Spacehamster]

As a DM I have a big issue with this and the Green dragons. Two of my players are a dwarf and a stout halfling. The other three aren't. If I am to pit them against a green dragon (the one from the starter set for example) it's the difference between instant death and small inconvenience. Seems like a tough choice :)

Bear totem mtn dwarf barbarian would be even worse, half from succeeding on save, half of that from resistance and halve it again from bear totem rage. xD

[UXLZ]

Multiple resistances don't stack, though. Does Bear Totem say "you take half damage from everything" rather than giving you resistance to stuff?

[JellyPooga]

Multiple resistances don't stack, though. Does Bear Totem say "you take half damage from everything" rather than giving you resistance to stuff?

No, Bear Totem (and Rage in general) grants resistance. Rogues Uncanny Dodge halves damage without granting resistance, so that would stack if you interpret a breath weapon as an attack (which although it's an aggressive action, I don't think it's an attack per se, not in the same way as, say, a Grapple or Shove attempt is).

[HoarsHalberd]

No, Bear Totem (and Rage in general) grants resistance. Rogues Uncanny Dodge halves damage without granting resistance, so that would stack if you interpret a breath weapon as an attack (which although it's an aggressive action, I don't think it's an attack per se, not in the same way as, say, a Grapple or Shove attempt is).

Neither a grapple, nor shove nor dragons breath attack are attacks. Grapple and shove are contested skill checks. Dragons breath are save to avoid effects. An attack is anything you roll an attack roll for.

[JellyPooga]

Neither a grapple, nor shove nor dragons breath attack are attacks. Grapple and shove are contested skill checks. Dragons breath are save to avoid effects. An attack is anything you roll an attack roll for.

For the purpose of Uncanny Dodge, it stipulates that when you are hit by an attack, not an attack roll. Grapple and Shove (whilst they are not subject to Uncanny Dodge, because they deal no damage and are contested skill rolls) are attacks; they replace an attack action and are listed under the Melee Attacks section as "Special Melee Attacks". Were they to deal damage, you could use your Reaction with Uncanny Dodge to halve the damage. A Breath Weapon is not listed as an attack, but as an Action a Dragon can take, much as an AoE spell is not an attack, but a "Cast a Spell" action that does not require a spell attack roll (as opposed to, say Scorching Ray, which is an attack by virtue of requiring an attack roll).

[KorvinStarmast]

As a DM I have a big issue with this and the Green dragons. Two of my players are a dwarf and a stout halfling. )
OK, so one particular monster this party has some edge on.

How about the rest of your campaign?

[NNescio]

As a DM I have a big issue with this and the Green dragons. Two of my players are a dwarf and a stout halfling. The other three aren't. If I am to pit them against a green dragon (the one from the starter set for example) it's the difference between instant death and small inconvenience. Seems like a tough choice :)

Use some other color dragon then.

Edit: I mean, at level 10 both the Monk and the Land Druid are immune to poison (and the Moon Druid can also be immune, depending on the form he chooses, which lasts 5 hours at that point). Adult Green Dragons are only CR 15.

If the party has some prep time (which they totally would if they are going up against a legendary green dragon, especially since they can see its lair regional effects from miles away), there's Heroes' Feast, a level 6 spell. It's kinda pricey, but it grants poison and fear immunity to 13 creatures (read: the whole party). Yep, they can totally faceroll any green dragon.

You can throw the Young Green Dragon at the party instead, but Protection from Poison is just a lv. 2 spell, and effectively grants Dwarven Resilience to one creature for one hour, no concentration needed.

So, yeah, Green Dragons are kinda chumps, at least compared to their draconic brethren. Mostly because poison is one of the worse damage types.

[-Jynx-]

For the purpose of Uncanny Dodge, it stipulates that when you are hit by an attack, not an attack roll. Grapple and Shove (whilst they are not subject to Uncanny Dodge, because they deal no damage and are contested skill rolls) are attacks; they replace an attack action and are listed under the Melee Attacks section as "Special Melee Attacks". Were they to deal damage, you could use your Reaction with Uncanny Dodge to halve the damage. A Breath Weapon is not listed as an attack, but as an Action a Dragon can take, much as an AoE spell is not an attack, but a "Cast a Spell" action that does not require a spell attack roll (as opposed to, say Scorching Ray, which is an attack by virtue of requiring an attack roll).

I hate going into word debates in 5e rules, but I think in this instance of uncanny dodge "attack" is being used to describe "any aggressive action against the rogue". I can't prove that, it's just my way of interpretation. However it would stand to reason that when a creature takes an aggressive action that causes damage against you Uncanny dodge would allow you to take half that damage instead. In the instance of a dragon breath it makes sense that your well... uncanny... ability to dodge allows you to evade more of the breathes damage than normal.

[JellyPooga]

I hate going into word debates in 5e rules, but I think in this instance of uncanny dodge "attack" is being used to describe "any aggressive action against the rogue". I can't prove that, it's just my way of interpretation. However it would stand to reason that when a creature takes an aggressive action that causes damage against you Uncanny dodge would allow you to take half that damage instead. In the instance of a dragon breath it makes sense that your well... uncanny... ability to dodge allows you to evade more of the breathes damage than normal.

I agree with you and in a game I was running, I'd rule similarly. However, if you want a textbook ruling, then the text is fairly clear (not 100%, I'll admit, but clear enough I think to leave little doubt).

[PoeticDwarf]

As a DM I have a big issue with this and the Green dragons. Two of my players are a dwarf and a stout halfling. The other three aren't. If I am to pit them against a green dragon (the one from the starter set for example) it's the difference between instant death and small inconvenience. Seems like a tough choice :)

But that is only against green dragons, with a red dragonborn and a tiefling in the party you would have more problems, because many enemies use fire.

[INDYSTAR188]

I would use the dragon anyway. Your just letting two PC's make use of their racial features which let's them feel special for an encounter. I think it's pretty awesome!

[Nifft]

I would use the dragon anyway. Your just letting two PC's make use of their racial features which let's them feel special for an encounter. I think it's pretty awesome!

Absolutely this.

If a character has resistance to X, be sure something attacks that character with X every so often.

Helping the players to feel awesome about their character choices can be pretty easy, when game mechanics like this exist.

[Alerad]

Absolutely this.

If a character has resistance to X, be sure something attacks that character with X every so often.

Helping the players to feel awesome about their character choices can be pretty easy, when game mechanics like this exist.

I might still use it then :)

If I were a green dragon I wouldn't go again dwarves, but lets say this one is young and thus inexperienced:)

[SharkForce]

I might still use it then :)

If I were a green dragon I wouldn't go again dwarves, but lets say this one is young and thus inexperienced:)

for what it's worth, an adult green dragon that breathes on a group of 50 dwarves will probably kill most of them whether they make their saves or not and in spite of taking half damage to start with, simply because most dwarves are not high level characters or high hit die NPCs.

it makes it a lot harder for the dragon to fight the dwarf heroes that come after you eventually. doesn't do much for the guards if you just want to get in, swipe something, and get out, though.

[Nifft]

I might still use it then :)

If I were a green dragon I wouldn't go again dwarves, but lets say this one is young and thus inexperienced:)

If you go by the flavor text, then Green Dragons are usually hanging out in forests, which are not the right environment for Dwarf encounters.

The Green Dragon would be used to humanoids of the Elf variety, which have no notable resistance to poison.

Heh, have him call the Dwarf a fat or pregnant Elf.

[MaxWilson]

I roll with advantage to save against poison damage, pass and still take half. Is it one quarter damage? Take half for successful save, resist half of what I take?

Yes. IIRC non-dwarves get the same benefit via the Protection From Poison spell at cleric/paladin/druid/ranger 2.

[pwykersotz]

I agree with you and in a game I was running, I'd rule similarly. However, if you want a textbook ruling, then the text is fairly clear (not 100%, I'll admit, but clear enough I think to leave little doubt).

Interesting, I rule it has to be an attack roll to work.

[MaxWilson]

Use some other color dragon then.

No, use a green dragon like you were planning so the players get to feel awesome about choosing a dwarf and a halfling. Nobody wants to play a game where the DM metagames all of your advantages out of existence.

[MeeposFire]

For the purpose of Uncanny Dodge, it stipulates that when you are hit by an attack, not an attack roll. Grapple and Shove (whilst they are not subject to Uncanny Dodge, because they deal no damage and are contested skill rolls) are attacks; they replace an attack action and are listed under the Melee Attacks section as "Special Melee Attacks". Were they to deal damage, you could use your Reaction with Uncanny Dodge to halve the damage. A Breath Weapon is not listed as an attack, but as an Action a Dragon can take, much as an AoE spell is not an attack, but a "Cast a Spell" action that does not require a spell attack roll (as opposed to, say Scorching Ray, which is an attack by virtue of requiring an attack roll).

You already stated the issue. It says hit. Breath weapons and other saving throw effects do not ,in game terms, hit. Hitting in game terms is a result of an attack roll so uncanny dodge is supposed to apply to attack rolls.

If it wanted it to apply to essentially to everything an enemy could do to you for damage it could have dome some statement of "use your reaction to take half damage from any single source". Attack does have a rules basis in 5e I don't think we should disregard it casually. Also think about about how that is also evasions niche where you take half damage from dodging a saving throw effect. Uncanny dodge is attack roll evasion. Lastly consider your ruling makes uncanny dodge stack with evasion which makes things even sillier than ever if you think about it (take breath weapon attack that you have resistance to so half damage, fail save but evasion for half, and then uncanny dodge for half, etc).

[Alerad]

Yes. IIRC non-dwarves get the same benefit via the Protection From Poison spell at cleric/paladin/druid/ranger 2.

The way I read it, being a dwarf is still better than Protection from Poison in some aspects:
"For the duration, the target has advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and it has resistance to poison damage."

I guess it's up to the interpretation, but "being poisoned" seems to refer to the status (poisoned - disadvantage on attacks and ability checks) rather than just poison damage. The text is clearly different than the Dwarven resilience and the Antitoxin's descriptions.

Or maybe it's the same, but just badly written?