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JeffGo
2015-08-28, 06:53 PM
Hi all,
Although I've looked at the forums a lot (without an account), I have decided to create an account to ask for assistance with something.
First, some back story to understand the situation:
The GM is very experienced however most of the players are new (some to role-playing as a whole, others to the system). I have a lot of experience with DnD 3.5, 4e and 5e, but not as much with pathfinder (which has caused some confusion because of some of the differences between 3.5 and pathfinder).
My GM has asked me to play a non-combat character. The reason is because of the five players in the game (of which I am one), three of the other four are just playing combat characters. The GM wants to show them that they don't need to play a combat character to have fun in the game (some are new to role-playing as whole and only have video games to go by). So since I am an experienced player, he asked that I help him by making a non-combat character (with the focus on role-playing) so that the others can see and move away from their "comfort zone" a little bit.

So here's what I'd like some help. I've done a bit of research on skill monkeys, however most of them have being a skill monkey as secondary with their primary focus being combat of some kind (they'll nerf themselves out of combat in order to get an in combat bonus for instance). I would like to make a completely non-combat based character. Skill monkey, smooth talker, etc..
If it helps, I see this character becoming an information broker when he retires (he sees information as the most valuable commodity).
Here are some prerequisites and a sample build:
Prereqs: Level 6, Must be Human, 20 point buy, standard starting gold, any source allowed, originally from Cheliax (the game takes place in the Pathfinder world), Evil alignment (it's an evil campaign).

Sample build (or the one I came up with):
Name: Darren
Class: Rogue 5/Shadowdancer 1
Race: Human
Str: 7 (-2)
Dex: 18 (+4)
Con: 10 (+0)
Int: 16 (+3)
Wis: 12 (+1)
Cha: 14 (+2)
Fort: +1
Reflex: +9
Will: +2
AC: 14
Initiative: +6
BAB: +3
Alignment: Neutral Evil
HP: 27

Skill Ranks:
Acrobatics: 1
Appraise: 5
Bluff: 6
Climb: 1
Craft (Traps): 5
Diplomacy: 2
Disable Device: 6
Disguise: 6
Escape Artist: 1
Intimidate: 5
Knowledge (History): 5
Knowledge (Everything else): 1
Linguistics (Elven): 1
Perception: 6
Perform (Act): 1
Perform (Dance): 2
Profession (Gambler): 1
Ride: 1
Sense Motive: 1
Sleight of Hand: 1
Spellcraft: 1
Stealth: 6

Feats:
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Mobility
Exotic (Whip)

Traits:
Reactionary

Rogue Talents:
Fast Stealth
Trap Spotter

Equipment:
Mask of Stony Demeanor
Sleeves of Many Garments
Cloak of Elvenkind
Bag of Holding (II)

Ssalarn
2015-08-28, 09:27 PM
If you're supposed to be "non-combat", have you considered the Investigator? It's combat abilities start out a bit lower than the Rogue's but eventually become as good, if not better, it gets Alchemy which is always a useful addition to the group, and it's much better as a skill monkey.

The Bard is also a better skill monkey than the Rogue, and has lots of fun tools for resolving problems without resorting to combat. Plus, since he can buff his allies in combat he won't create an awkward situation where the rest of the table feels like they're trying to play one game while you're playing another.

A Hunter with a Bird animal companion could make for a solid scout-type skill monkey, and has lots of cool options for showing other players new aspects of the game.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-08-28, 09:46 PM
While showing off non-combat is good, the unfortunate reality is that if the DM is going to include any number of fights, you need the numbers to participate. Combat takes too long to completely sit out, and you can't bluff your way through with real-life skills like you can a social scene. If your DM wants to include more roleplaying, he should, you know, start putting in talky bits. You might not play a talky character in such a situation, though-- if you do, you'll wind up dominating the scene, instead of the newbies stepping up and trying it out.


If you're supposed to be "non-combat", have you considered the Investigator? It's combat abilities start out a bit lower than the Rogue's but eventually become as good, if not better, it gets Alchemy which is always a useful addition to the group, and it's much better as a skill monkey.
Investigator is super-fun. I played one for a while. Crazy good skills, especially when buffed with extracts. Nifty variant on vancean casting, too. There are a few things you can do to run your social skills through Int, too:

Student of Philosophy trait
Bruising Intellect feat
Orator feat
Empiricist archetype

Plus you can use the Effortless Aid and Inspirational Expertise talents to help your allies in combat instead of attacking, though I can't in good faith recommend it.

NightbringerGGZ
2015-08-28, 11:30 PM
I played an Investigator in a steam punk themed game of Pathfinder. While this class is capable of participating in combat, it can also provide significant buffs (via Infusions) and it is about the best Skill Monkey in the game.

You can participate in combat without fighting if you are clever with your skills. For instance, in the game I played I would identify monsters to find weaknesses my allies could employ. Additionally, I would try to use the environment to participate in combat. I once put Knowledge (Engineering) to good effecting by using a crane to pin down a boss we were fighting so the party Magus could blast it.

You could also go with any kind of high-tier caster who just focuses on buffing. That's always a great force multiplier.

JeffGo
2015-08-29, 01:10 AM
Thank you everyone that has replied. ^_^

I looked over the investigator and it seems like a nice fit for what I'm trying to do. I was thinking of taking the Sleuth archetype. The reason is that we already have two spell-casters in the group and while the alchemy isn't technically spell-casting, I'm worried it might be close enough related that it might be a little too powerful. Also the idea of luck points is really cool. However the Empiricist archetype is also really good...

In terms of combat ability, I also like the buffing aspect. I had another character who was a pure buffer/crafter (3.5 artificer). Basically he would buff everyone before combat and once combat started the GM would come to me and say "What do you do?" and I would reply "I think I'll make some tea." Then everyone else would pop their buffs and it was awesome to watch.

Also, don't worry about me not doing anything in combat. I've always enjoyed sitting on the back lines and letting other people have the glory. As I said, the GM is trying to ease a few of the players into being more role-play focused, but part of that is that they are currently playing pure combat characters. Once talking starts, they don't really like to talk. So I try to encourge them to talk out of combat (to role-play), but in order to make them feel comfortable with their characters, I let them do everything once combat starts.

I'm the kind of player that as long as I feel I got 15 minutes of good role-playing in during a three hour long game, I am happy. ^_^

One more question: Are there good equipment I should use? I don't feel the need to get a magic weapon or armor (unless they somehow help me out of combat), mostly because if I have to resort to combat, I'm probably gonna die anyways. (And the GM has already told me that he never puts in a combat into a game that you have to fight your way out of. And XP will be gotten either way).

Grod_The_Giant
2015-08-29, 08:26 AM
I looked over the investigator and it seems like a nice fit for what I'm trying to do. I was thinking of taking the Sleuth archetype. The reason is that we already have two spell-casters in the group and while the alchemy isn't technically spell-casting, I'm worried it might be close enough related that it might be a little too powerful. Also the idea of luck points is really cool. However the Empiricist archetype is also really good...

In terms of combat ability, I also like the buffing aspect. I had another character who was a pure buffer/crafter (3.5 artificer). Basically he would buff everyone before combat and once combat started the GM would come to me and say "What do you do?" and I would reply "I think I'll make some tea." Then everyone else would pop their buffs and it was awesome to watch.

If you like buffing, definitely don't get rid of infusions. Extracts are great for party support. Instead of running around touching everyone before/during a fight, you pass out a couple potions and let them use their own actions to buff, at a time of their choice. It's doubly awesome when people go out on independent scouting missions or whatnot-- they can still drop short-term buffs whenever needed. It's only 6th level casting, so it's not overpowering, but there are a bunch of nice effects. Don't forget that it only takes a minute to prepare an extract, so you can leave most of your slots unused and mix up the right one for the circumstance.

Another option might be to go pure Alchemist and take an archetype(s) to weaken your bombs and mutagen. Crypt Breaker, say, or Mindchemist/Homunculist and Reanimator/Clone Master. It's not as good a skill monkey, but you still get a fair number of points on an Int-based chassis, and some of the discoveries are pretty neat.