Nature-themed Classes and their Combos

[JellyPooga]

So, in 5ed we have a lot of nature-themed Classes going on;

Cleric (Nature/Tempest Domain)
Druid
Paladin (Order of the Ancients)
Ranger
Warlock (Archfey Patron)

Some of these, naturally, go well together because of Attribute Dependencies; Warlock/Paladin and Cleric/Ranger come to mind.

What about more exotic multiclassing? Are their any surprising benefits or entertaining consequences to, say, Druid/Warlock or Ranger/Paladin, among other MC's whilst staying within the "natural" theme?

[woodlandkammao]

Ranger X/ Nature Cleric 1 is a great combo, it gives you some much needed cantrips, more spells memorizable and some extra utility. Same spell casting stats too

[djreynolds]

Its crazy and I don't have the laboratory to see if it works. But ranger/paladin. Paladin can use any spell to smite with, I'M Pretty Sure, and you may have to start at a higher level to see it flourish. But whirlwind and smite sounds cool. Yes you will burn through all of your smite spells at one pop, but it gives that Aragorn feel standing around of bunch of corpses. Like a last stand. Could it work, yes, but just on those days when your defending the castle from the orc horde's

[UXLZ]

The Smite feature says that you have to use a Paladin Spell slot. How exactly does that work, anyway?

[Strill]

The Smite feature says that you have to use a Paladin Spell slot. How exactly does that work, anyway?

It's a mistake that was corrected in the errata. Slots are not assigned to any particular class. Any spell slot will do.

[djreynolds]

The Smite feature says that you have to use a Paladin Spell slot. How exactly does that work, anyway?

I was told that the Errata said, the paladin or multi-classed paladin can smite with any of the spell slots he or she has.

[NNescio]

So, in 5ed we have a lot of nature-themed Classes going on;

Cleric (Nature/Tempest Domain)
Druid
Paladin (Order of the Ancients)
Ranger
Warlock (Archfey Patron)

Some of these, naturally, go well together because of Attribute Dependencies; Warlock/Paladin and Cleric/Ranger come to mind.

What about more exotic multiclassing? Are their any surprising benefits or entertaining consequences to, say, Druid/Warlock or Ranger/Paladin, among other MC's whilst staying within the "natural" theme?

Don't forget the Totem Barbarian, who's also nature-themed. Goes well with Moon Druid, then you get to be a Bear Totem Barbearian. Add in a splash of rogue if you want to be a scary grappler.

[JellyPooga]

Its crazy and I don't have the laboratory to see if it works. But ranger/paladin. Paladin can use any spell to smite with, I'M Pretty Sure, and you may have to start at a higher level to see it flourish. But whirlwind and smite sounds cool. Yes you will burn through all of your smite spells at one pop, but it gives that Aragorn feel standing around of bunch of corpses. Like a last stand. Could it work, yes, but just on those days when your defending the castle from the orc horde's

The problem I foresee with Ranger/Paladin is the crazy MAD; Cha and Wis for spellcasting and Class Abilities, Str/Dex/Con for combat. It's just spread a bit thin to really make it worthwhile. Having said that, you'll get two Fighting Styles to play with (potentially as early as level 4) and a bigger spell list to choose from, so there could be a niche build in there somewhere, but as you say, it probably won't be showing its potential until higher levels, at which point you're probably better off going single class.

[Yuki Akuma]

Paladin/Ranger won't give you an more spell slots than a straight Paladin (in fact, you're a level behind half the time), so it doesn't really improve your smiting power. I'm also not sure you can actually combine smite and whirlwind attack.

[hymer]

A druid picking up some paladin or warlock levels can help boost the druid's unimpressive damage dealing. Paladin mostly for moon druids (to get some smiting done) and warlock mostly for land druids (backing up summons with some well-placed eldritch blasts and getting a bunch of spell slots to pump out goodberries - I could be wrong about that last bit). Those aren't perfect solutions by a long shot (5e is mercifully short of perfect solutions), but they're options for those who just can't abide staying in one class.

[djreynolds]

Paladin/Ranger won't give you an more spell slots than a straight Paladin (in fact, you're a level behind half the time), so it doesn't really improve your smiting power. I'm also not sure you can actually combine smite and whirlwind attack.

I think you can, be each separate attack you land during whirlwind would cost a spell slot for smite. And yes he's very MAD, but I'd just like to see if it could work and it wouldn't work like until a very high level.

It would be a cool NPC character to roll up or something, and you could give him any stat line you wanted.

[JellyPooga]

A druid picking up some paladin or warlock levels can help boost the druid's unimpressive damage dealing. Paladin mostly for moon druids (to get some smiting done) and warlock mostly for land druids (backing up summons with some well-placed eldritch blasts and getting a bunch of spell slots to pump out goodberries - I could be wrong about that last bit). Those aren't perfect solutions by a long shot (5e is mercifully short of perfect solutions), but they're options for those who just can't abide staying in one class.

I quite like the idea of Druid/Warlock being able to spam cast Conjure Animal/Woodland Being/Elemental(s) using Pact Magic and I like that Wild Shape feels very Fey as well. I'm not sure on how well it would work from anything but a roleplaying perspective though. Being that many levels behind the curve due to MCing in addition to greater MAD makes it strictly suboptimal, I think.

There could be an argument for dump-statting your physical scores (Str/Dex/Con) and using Wild Shape for combat after casting your summons and/or buffs, but then you lose out on the tasty Eldritch Blast goodness and other Warlock combat spells.

[djreynolds]

Totem barbarian and paladin. That could be cool. Spear wielder or something primitive. Start off a barbarian, no armor, could end up with good saves, MAD but for that one time you roll well, this could work. But some redundancy because of attacks. Tribal champion.

[JellyPooga]

OK, here's one that doesn't seem quite right to me, but as far as I can tell it flies by the RAW;

Nature Cleric (2) / Druid (X)

- You get to prepare 2+(Wis) Cleric Spells AND X+(Wis) Druid spells.
- These spells must be of a level you have Spell Slots for.
- So you miss out on an ASI and Archdruid, but gain full access to the Cleric Spell List (spell levels 1 through 9), Heavy Armour Proficiency, an additional Skill Proficiency, Animal Friendship and Speak with Animals as additional Spells Prepared and Channel Divinity: Charm Animals and Plants.

Good deal, no?

I mean, assuming a 20 Wis, you can prepare 7 Cleric Spells. As, for instance, a 15th level character (Cleric 2/Druid 13), you could choose Antimagic Field, Holy Aura, Conjure Celestial, Etherealness, Divine Word, Planar Ally and Blade Barrier. Yet you're only, technically, a 2nd level Cleric and you still have 18 Druid Spells you can prepare.

[hymer]

I quite like the idea of Druid/Warlock being able to spam cast Conjure Animal/Woodland Being/Elemental(s) using Pact Magic and I like that Wild Shape feels very Fey as well. I'm not sure on how well it would work from anything but a roleplaying perspective though. Being that many levels behind the curve due to MCing in addition to greater MAD makes it strictly suboptimal, I think.

There could be an argument for dump-statting your physical scores (Str/Dex/Con) and using Wild Shape for combat after casting your summons and/or buffs, but then you lose out on the tasty Eldritch Blast goodness and other Warlock combat spells.

I wasn't thinking of anything like half of each. I was thinking more like 5 levels of druid, and then sprinkle some warlock levels as you advance from there - no more than four, and probably less. This is not a build idea meant to be implemented at level 20, it's supposed to be played from scratch if necesarry. You could start out with 15 wis and cha, Vhuman +1 to each. You start with Warcaster, so you wouldn't be badly harmed by not having too high a con score. Or 14 cha 15 wis and an aasimar gives 16 in each, and you could have decentish con.


Good deal, no?

Too good to be true, I'm afraid. :smallsmile: You prepare spells with each class individually, so you would only have access to first level cleric spells. And there's some overlap with the druid list (I think like 9 fresh, 6 shared), which need not be fatal, but the opposite would be nicer.

[JellyPooga]

Too good to be true, I'm afraid. :smallsmile:

Ah yes, it's the "as if you were a single classed member of that class" part in the Multiclassing section that I missed and is relevant.

Still, having Bane, Bless, Command, Guiding Bolt, Inflict Wounds, Protection from E/G and Shield of Faith prepared in addition to your Druid spells (not to mention the Channel Divinity which is nice and fluffy) is no bad thing when you consider that you'll have them for the majority of your career. In exchange, you've got a slightly delayed access to Druid Class Features. I'd take that deal :smallwink:


I wasn't thinking of anything like half of each. I was thinking more like 5 levels of druid, and then sprinkle some warlock levels as you advance from there - no more than four, and probably less.

Hmm, fair enough. I'm not seeing how much you'll get out of Warlock compared to just going straight Druid. Your Pact Magic slots will be useful early on (pre-level 10, say), but would rapidly diminish in use I think. You'll pick up a couple of Invocations that could be nice, but you're not exactly going to be rocking the gravy-train with any of the Warlock features I shouldn't think.

As I say, I like the idea; it's very fluffy, but mechanically I think it would be fairly weak.

[hymer]

Ah yes, it's the "as if you were a single classed member of that class" part in the Multiclassing section that I missed and is relevant.

Still, having Bane, Bless, Command, Guiding Bolt, Inflict Wounds, Protection from E/G and Shield of Faith prepared in addition to your Druid spells (not to mention the Channel Divinity which is nice and fluffy) is no bad thing when you consider that you'll have them for the majority of your career. In exchange, you've got a slightly delayed access to Druid Class Features. I'd take that deal :smallwink:

It's always a matter of whether what you got as a first level cleric is better than what you'd have gotten as an Xth level druid. On any level where you would have had access to another spell level, that is almost certain to be stronger IMO. And that's about half of all levels. So there is a definite trade-off-


Hmm, fair enough. I'm not seeing how much you'll get out of Warlock compared to just going straight Druid. Your Pact Magic slots will be useful early on (pre-level 10, say), but would rapidly diminish in use I think. You'll pick up a couple of Invocations that could be nice, but you're not exactly going to be rocking the gravy-train with any of the Warlock features I shouldn't think.

As I say, I like the idea; it's very fluffy, but mechanically I think it would be fairly weak.

I agree that straight druid would be better. But that's not what this thread is about, after all. :smallsmile: As for low level spell slots, they would certainly diminish in value over time, but you never run out of reasons to cast Goodberry and Enhance Ability/Pass without Trace.

[JellyPooga]

So there is a definite trade-off

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's one of the things I like about 5ed multiclassing; there's never an easy decision. It's a choice between cake and pie; if you want a bit of both, you'll never get the full experience of either, no matter how you slice them (but every now and then you can pick the bit with the cherries in it!).


I agree that straight druid would be better. But that's not what this thread is about, after all. :smallsmile:

Indeed :smallbiggrin:

[Corey]

One of the top infiltration/espionage options has to be a Warlock with Wild Shape. (Perhaps Warlock 12/Druid 8 to pick up the ASIs.)

Ironically, however, when I think of infiltration/espionage I think of urban settings. (Or large palaces wherever they are.) Also, GOO might be better for infiltration than Archfey.

[JellyPooga]

One of the top infiltration/espionage options has to be a Warlock with Wild Shape. (Perhaps Warlock 12/Druid 8 to pick up the ASIs.)

Ironically, however, when I think of infiltration/espionage I think of urban settings. (Or large palaces wherever they are.) Also, GOO might be better for infiltration than Archfey.

Hmm, yes indeed. Wild Shape for innocuous animal forms (rats, cats, etc.) and Invocations like Mask of Many Faces, Eyes of the Rune Keeper and Eldritch Sight, combined with the Enchantments and Illusions the Warlock gets access to (Charm Person, Enthrall, Invisibility) could indeed make for a good infiltrator. Good call.

[djreynolds]

Could you throw in Elemental monk in the conversation? And ranger hunter? Swinging from vines? Great dexterity score, sniping from trees. Perhaps a "Jack Frost" theme. Could use warlock instead of ranger.

[Corey]

Warlock/Druid seems a lot weaker that single-classing in either, so the idea is mainly for the flavor/RP/whatever.

E.g., Warlock 5/Druid 5 has ton of good spells Level 3 and below, as well as some Wild Shape. But Warlock 10 would have Scrying and Contact Other Planes, which I think would be better at information-gathering than all the cool infiltration stuff Druid adds. And Druid 10 is clearly better in spell slots -- this of course isn't like 2 ordinary full caster classes multiclassing -- as well as having flying wild shapes, so is probably quite the competitive infiltrator as well.

[Christian]

The heck with multiclassing. That looks like a pretty awesome party. :smile:

[JellyPooga]

Warlock/Druid seems a lot weaker that single-classing in either, so the idea is mainly for the flavor/RP/whatever.

Hmm, I don't think you're wrong. Truth be told, I was rather hoping someone would come up with some awesome synergistic build for a Druid/Warlock, but I've gone over it a few times and there simply isn't anything there outside of fluff/strictly sub-optimal builds. About the best I could come up with was something along the lines of Bladelock combined with Shillelagh, but even that isn't anything to shout about (and can be done with straight Warlock better anyway).

If someone wants to correct me, I'd be glad to hear it!

[Submortimer]

Truly, the Half elf Fey Warlock/Ancients Paladin is the best elven warrior. Want some Thematic cheese? Be a Booklock, get Shileleigh, Get PM, use the Quarterstaff+PM+Shield combo to kill demons with a wooden longsword using nothing but your charisma.