Arcane casters with shields

[Corey]

It's tempting for an arcane caster to take a level dip to cleric, getting better armor proficiency, shield proficiency, and the pros/cons on the spell side.

OK. Suppose you're wearing the armor, holding a shield, with your other hand free and your component pouch at your belt, slinging cantrips for at-will damage. Great.

Now suppose you get a magic item that helps with spellcasting -- Instrument of the Bards, Rod of Warlocky Goodness, whatever. Is it still practical to use a shield? I don't see how.

[Naanomi]

Rods are also weapons, Warcaster seems to solve the problem? Unless you are dual-wielding *two* magic enhancing Rods. In which case just enjoy your Heavy Armor and zap away.

[djreynolds]

Mountain dwarf makes an awesome caster. Strength and athletics are overlooked until some spoony bard is suplexing you. Avoid that. Con bonus. Medium armor. Hand axes are cooler than bows. No need to multiclass.

[ZenBear]

Warlock can get Moderately Armored as their first ASI for a big jump in AC. When you're wielding your spell focus ie Rod of Warlocky Goodness the hand holding it counts as empty for the purposes of somatic components. You don't even need Warcaster, though I would say it's a very good idea to get it for EB AoOs.

[E’Tallitnics]

It's tempting for an arcane caster to take a level dip to cleric, getting better armor proficiency, shield proficiency, and the pros/cons on the spell side.

OK. Suppose you're wearing the armor, holding a shield, with your other hand free and your component pouch at your belt, slinging cantrips for at-will damage. Great.

Now suppose you get a magic item that helps with spellcasting -- Instrument of the Bards, Rod of Warlocky Goodness, whatever. Is it still practical to use a shield? I don't see how.

Only if the magic item can still be used as a spell casting focus. Shield in one hand, focus in another and that arm also qualifies as 'free' for the purpose somatic components.

[djreynolds]

Your stat priority is intelligence, constitution, attack stat, and wisdom. Mountain dwarf, gives two of those and forget dexterity because you have scale mail and hand axes can be thrown. Get war caster and resilient con, forget the shield and cast it if you need it that bad.

Or if you want combat, eldritch knight 5, wizard 15.

[hymer]

Now suppose you get a magic item that helps with spellcasting -- Instrument of the Bards, Rod of Warlocky Goodness, whatever. Is it still practical to use a shield? I don't see how.

You get to do some minor stuff every round as part of action or movement. If your DM is hard about this, and insists on one manipulation of one object per round, you can still stow/put down/shift hand your rod of warlocky goodness as part of the action that casts the spell. This should allow your hand free to also deal with spell components. Next round you do it the other way around.

If your DM is really hard and won't go for the above either, you need Warcaster.

[SharkForce]

It's tempting for an arcane caster to take a level dip to cleric, getting better armor proficiency, shield proficiency, and the pros/cons on the spell side.

OK. Suppose you're wearing the armor, holding a shield, with your other hand free and your component pouch at your belt, slinging cantrips for at-will damage. Great.

Now suppose you get a magic item that helps with spellcasting -- Instrument of the Bards, Rod of Warlocky Goodness, whatever. Is it still practical to use a shield? I don't see how.

when using a focus, you can perform somatic components with the same hand that holds the focus.

you probably couldn't combo a shield with an instrument of the bards, but generally speaking other items shouldn't be a problem (well, sort of... technically, you can only use the hand with a focus to perform somatic components if the spell has a material component, so technically you're screwed if the spell doesn't have a material component. but that's kinda silly, so I tend to ignore that particular part of the rule).

[Corey]

when using a focus, you can perform somatic components with the same hand that holds the focus.

you probably couldn't combo a shield with an instrument of the bards, but generally speaking other items shouldn't be a problem (well, sort of... technically, you can only use the hand with a focus to perform somatic components if the spell has a material component, so technically you're screwed if the spell doesn't have a material component. but that's kinda silly, so I tend to ignore that particular part of the rule).

Yeah, the Instruments of the Bards one is a concern.

The other concern is that the instruments provide bonuses -- disadvantage on saves IIRC -- to charm spells cast "through" them, but many charm spells don't have material components, so do those charm spells get the bonus?

A DM can of course fix any of this just by defining the item in a slightly different way than the DMG was. I'm referring mainly to the spellcasting hand shuffle -- but it could even go to the extreme that an Instrument of the Bards gives +2 to AC, but only if that person has proficiency with shields. :)

[PoeticDwarf]

It's tempting for an arcane caster to take a level dip to cleric, getting better armor proficiency, shield proficiency, and the pros/cons on the spell side.

OK. Suppose you're wearing the armor, holding a shield, with your other hand free and your component pouch at your belt, slinging cantrips for at-will damage. Great.

Now suppose you get a magic item that helps with spellcasting -- Instrument of the Bards, Rod of Warlocky Goodness, whatever. Is it still practical to use a shield? I don't see how.

If you carry one magic rod or something, you can still wield your shield. One level in cleric is very nice for most casters, only the druid gets a very nice feature on level 20, and the warlock maybe.

[Yuki Akuma]

A focus can only be used to perform somatic components for a spell that requires a material component without a listed cost. If the spell lacks a material component, or the material component has a cost listed, you can't use the focus to perform the somatic component.

So it might still be practical to use a shield... as long as you stick to spells with material components without a listed price. (Or, you know, spells without somatic components.)

[Person_Man]

First, as others have said, you're probably better off being a Dwarf and/or investing a Feat or two into bettering your AC instead of multi-classing, because multi-classing nerfs your spell progression, Feat progression, and access to higher level class abilities.

Second, if you're a Valor Bard or Pact of Blade Warlock and using a weapon for your at-will attack, then the proper order of operations is probably:

1) Prior to combat, cast any buffs with a long duration that you want to cast.
2) Walk around with a weapon and shield.
3) When you enter combat, make the assessment about whether the fight is tough enough that you need to cast spells. If it is, drop your weapon, fall back behind your other allies, and cast spells. If its not, just hit people with your weapon.
4) If you change your mind mid-combat because something bad happens, drop your weapon, fall back, and cast spells.
5) Carry multiple backup weapons, just in case you change your mind again, and need to drop your instruments or rod or whatever and go back to hitting things.

Combat doesn't really last that long in 5E, unless its a really tough combat, in which case you should just be casting spells every round. So in practice, you should rarely have to switch back and forth between a weapon and magical implements.

[SharkForce]

in context (that is, when discussing casters with shields), dwarves are completely useless. they do not gain shield proficiency ever for any archetype.

a mountain dwarf wizard who wishes to use a shield is no better off than a human, elf, halfling, etc that wants to use a shield.

[Corey]

If you carry one magic rod or something, you can still wield your shield. One level in cleric is very nice for most casters, only the druid gets a very nice feature on level 20, and the warlock maybe.

Well, the issue is that you're always a level behind in your main spell progression.

One little irony on the Life Cleric dip for Bards -- skills don't heal as well from the Cleric list as from the Bard list, since your WIS will surely be lower than your CHA. So you might decide to use a spells-know slot on Healing Word anyway. (Or maybe not -- the point of Healing Word is the difference between 1 HP and 0 HP, not the difference between 8 and 5.)

[Corey]

If you carry one magic rod or something, you can still wield your shield.

Which hand do you use for somatic or material components?

[SharkForce]

Which hand do you use for somatic or material components?

the one with the rod in it. you can use a hand with an arcane focus to perform somatic components for any spell that has somatic components, as noted several times upthread.

(I suppose if you're particularly worried you might need to use a spell with no material components or an expensive material component, and your DM cares to enforce that the rod can only be used to perform somatic components when there are also material components, you could just carry multiple rods and drop them as needed... but personally, since that ruins the image and seems dumb in the first place, I'd tend to ignore that requirement and let you perform all somatic components with the rod).

[Corey]

the one with the rod in it. you can use a hand with an arcane focus to perform somatic components for any spell that has somatic components, as noted several times upthread.

(I suppose if you're particularly worried you might need to use a spell with no material components or an expensive material component, and your DM cares to enforce that the rod can only be used to perform somatic components when there are also material components, you could just carry multiple rods and drop them as needed... but personally, since that ruins the image and seems dumb in the first place, I'd tend to ignore that requirement and let you perform all somatic components with the rod).

That's where we keep coming back to.

By RAW, a caster is screwed, but any decent DM will fix that.

Thanks.