Gestalt Prestige Question

[Windrammer]

I'm aware you can't level two prestige classes simultaneously. But are you allowed to take two prestige classes at all?

If I wanted to be Warblade 20 on one end, and Wizard/Abjurant Champion/Incantatrix on the other, would that be okay?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Yes. The rule is that you cannot combine two prestige classes at the same level.

Also, I would strongly recommend taking the first three or four Incantatrix levels asap on that build, so you can use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect to persist your buffs sooner.

[Windrammer]

Also, I would strongly recommend taking the first three or four Incantatrix levels asap on that build, so you can use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect to persist your buffs sooner.

Noted. Thank you, this is the first time I've used this class and I'm still figuring it all out.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Noted. Thank you, this is the first time I've used this class and I'm still figuring it all out.

Be sure to say you visited the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel to gain Iron Will for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it.

You can use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells outside of combat, since the action economy system only exists during initiative. It's also useful for persisting allies' buffs (possibly from a Ring of Spell Storing if they can't cast their own spells). Spells to persist include Shield, Wraithstrike, Swift Fly, Magic Circle Against Evil, Greater Invisibility, and Draconic Polymorph from the Draconomicon. Also Elation in BoED (on the whole party) if you're good aligned.

You generally want to take Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd level and invest every skill point you get into it for the greatest return, which adds a bonus to Spellcraft up to your number of ranks. With that you can generally just take ten on the check to use the Incantatrix's abilities to Persist even your highest level spells at any given level. Make the Item Familiar a ring and wear a glove or gauntlet over it so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or Slight of Hand it. An item familiar is an intelligent item, which is regarded as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas, though such effects can temporarily suppress the benefits you gain from it.

[Windrammer]

Be sure to say you visited the Otyugh Hole in Complete Scoundrel to gain Iron Will for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it.

You can use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells outside of combat, since the action economy system only exists during initiative. It's also useful for persisting allies' buffs (possibly from a Ring of Spell Storing if they can't cast their own spells). Spells to persist include Shield, Wraithstrike, Swift Fly, Magic Circle Against Evil, Greater Invisibility, and Draconic Polymorph from the Draconomicon. Also Elation in BoED (on the whole party) if you're good aligned.

You generally want to take Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd level and invest every skill point you get into it for the greatest return, which adds a bonus to Spellcraft up to your number of ranks. With that you can generally just take ten on the check to use the Incantatrix's abilities to Persist even your highest level spells at any given level. Make the Item Familiar a ring and wear a glove or gauntlet over it so opponents never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or Slight of Hand it. An item familiar is an intelligent item, which is regarded as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas, though such effects can temporarily suppress the benefits you gain from it.

I think we're looking at different versions of Incantatrix... What is the one you're referring to? There's nothing about spellcraft or persist or cooperative metamagic with the one I'm looking at.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think we're looking at different versions of Incantatrix... What is the one you're referring to? There's nothing about spellcraft or persist or cooperative metamagic with the one I'm looking at.

The up to date version is in Player's Guide to Faerun, it's significantly better than the 3.0 Magic of Faerun version that can be found online on the WotC website. You definitely want to use the newer one.

[DarkSonic1337]

I think we're looking at different versions of Incantatrix... What is the one you're referring to? There's nothing about spellcraft or persist or cooperative metamagic with the one I'm looking at.

The original Incantatrix (found in Magic of Faerun) was updated in Player's Guide to Faerun

[torrasque666]

Remember though that Item Familiars are a variant rule and by all that is holy one that should not be allowed by the DM. Far too broken.

[Crake]

Remember though that Item Familiars are a variant rule and by all that is holy one that should not be allowed by the DM. Far too broken.

I think, as long as you remove the "invest skillpoints/xp/spell slots" abilities of item familiars, and just leave them as an intelligent item that grows with you, and allows you to add abilities without the necessary item creation feats, it's actually pretty acceptable.

[Windrammer]

The up to date version is in Player's Guide to Faerun, it's significantly better than the 3.0 Magic of Faerun version that can be found online on the WotC website. You definitely want to use the newer one.

It does seem better, but also a bit conditional. Free metamagic feats and enhancing persistent spells are nice but what makes this class as broken as it's considered to be?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It does seem better, but also a bit conditional. Free metamagic feats and enhancing persistent spells are nice but what makes this class as broken as it's considered to be?

You get to add Persistent Spell to your buffs after you cast them.

Let's say you're 9th level with Int 22 (18 base, +2 race or item, +2 levels), you have nine uses of Metamagic Effect and nine uses of Cooperative Metamagic.

You have 5th level spells, the Spellcraft DC to add Persistent Spell to a 5th level spell is 51. You'll have 12 ranks in Spellcraft, +12 from the Item Familiar's invested skill ranks, +6 for Int, +2 Synergy from Knowledge: Arcana ranks, +2 from a Masterwork Tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork) if necessary, and you can add a +7 Competence Bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) to your Item Familiar for 2,450 gp and 196 xp, for a total bonus of +41, so you can take ten on the check for a result of 51. Every two levels you gain two more ranks in Spellcraft and another +2 from Item Familiar, +4 total, and every two levels you gain one spell level and the DC to Persist your current highest level spells increases by three, so you'll always be able to use those abilities to Persist your highest level spells for your entire career.

At this level, you can simply cast up to eighteen personal or fixed range spells, and then make them last 24 hours. Let's just take a look at spells up to 5th level that you can cast once and have active all day:

Shield (1st): +4 AC, immune to Magic Missile.
Expeditious Retreat (1st): +30 ft. land speed.
Nightshield (1st): +3 to saving throws, immune to Magic Missile.
Wraithstrike (2nd): Your melee attacks are resolved as melee touch attacks, ignoring opponents' armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses, and allowing you to Power Attack for your full BAB and still hit reliably.
Swift Fly (2nd): 60 ft. (good) fly speed.
Cloud of Knives (2nd): Make a free ranged dagger attack every round for 1d6+3, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it hits, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it hits.
Death Armor (2nd): Opponents take damage when striking you in melee, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it deals damage, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it deals damage.
Magic Circle Against Evil (3rd): Nongood extraplanar creatures cannot approach within 10 ft. of you, cannot attack protected creatures with natural weapons, immune to mind control effects.
Ray Deflection (4th): Ranged touch attacks against you automatically miss.
Friendly Fire (4th): Ranged attacks of any type against you can be automatically redirected to any valid target within 30 ft.
Fire Shield (4th, twice): Take reduced damage from fire and cold, opponents that strike you in melee take fire and cold damage, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it deals damage, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it deals damage.
Greater Invisibility (4th): You're always invisible.
Thunderlance (4th): You wield a weapon of force that can hit opponents at any distance from adjacent to 20 ft. away, it deals 3d6+Int damage, can put Greater Magic Weapon on it, can AoO up to 20 ft. away, it dispels force effects you hit with it. You can use it two-handed and Power Attack with it even.
Bite of the Werewolf (4th): +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +4 natural armor, bite attack, Blind Fight feat.
Dimension Jumper (5th): Teleport up to 30 ft. every round as a move action.
Draconic Polymorph (5th): Turn into any number of various monsters (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519.0), gain an additional +8 Str and +2 Con above what the selected form normally has.

That's seventeen spells, eighteen if you count Fire Shield twice. Combined with (Rod of) Extended Greater Luminous Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, Greater Magic Weapon, and various other hour/level or 24-hour buffs, you'll have the following stats at 9th level and the build you proposed:

Cave Troll form from Draconic Polymorph (Large size humanoid shape)
Str 39, Dex 17, Con 33
70 ft. land speed, fly 60 ft. (good)
AC 39 (-1 size, +3 dex, +15 natural, +4 shield, +8 armor), Touch 12, Incorporeal Touch 25, Flat-Footed 36, extra +2 Deflection vs attacks from evil creatures, melee attackers who rely on vision take a -4 penalty to hit you.
You're Invisible for 24 hours, regardless of what you do (other than dismissing it), so all attacks directed toward the correct square have a 50% miss chance, and spells that don't affect an area or make an attack roll cannot be targeted at you unless the caster or attacker can see invisible creatures.

Pounce, Rake, Rend, Improved Grab (Grapple +27), Dazing Blow (any target hit by both claws is Dazed unless they make a DC 25 Fort save).

(Power Attack for -9) 2 Claws +13 melee touch (2d6+23 plus Rend 3d6+21 plus Dazing Blow plus Improved Grab) and Bite +8 melee touch (1d8+16) and 2 Rakes +13 melee touch (2d6+16) and dagger +14 ranged 30 ft. max (1d6+3, 19-20/x2)
Or
(Power attack for -9) +2 Large Falchion +15/+10 melee touch (2d6+39, 18-20/x2) and Bite +8 melee touch (1d8+16) and dagger +14 ranged 30 ft. max (1d6+3, 19-20/x2)

Anyone that strikes you in melee takes 1d4+4 untyped damage, 1d6+9 fire damage, and 1d6+9 cold damage.

Every ranged attack against you can be automatically directed to hit any target you choose within 30 ft. of you, even the original attacker. This includes any ranged attack that makes an attack roll, such as ray spells.

[Windrammer]

You get to add Persistent Spell to your buffs after you cast them.

Let's say you're 9th level with Int 22 (18 base, +2 race or item, +2 levels), you have nine uses of Metamagic Effect and nine uses of Cooperative Metamagic.

You have 5th level spells, the Spellcraft DC to add Persistent Spell to a 5th level spell is 51. You'll have 12 ranks in Spellcraft, +12 from the Item Familiar's invested skill ranks, +6 for Int, +2 Synergy from Knowledge: Arcana ranks, +2 from a Masterwork Tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork) if necessary, and you can add a +7 Competence Bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) to your Item Familiar for 2,450 gp and 196 xp, for a total bonus of +41, so you can take ten on the check for a result of 51. Every two levels you gain two more ranks in Spellcraft and another +2 from Item Familiar, +4 total, and every two levels you gain one spell level and the DC to Persist your current highest level spells increases by three, so you'll always be able to use those abilities to Persist your highest level spells for your entire career.

At this level, you can simply cast up to eighteen personal or fixed range spells, and then make them last 24 hours. Let's just take a look at spells up to 5th level that you can cast once and have active all day:

Shield (1st): +4 AC, immune to Magic Missile.
Expeditious Retreat (1st): +30 ft. land speed.
Nightshield (1st): +3 to saving throws, immune to Magic Missile.
Wraithstrike (2nd): Your melee attacks are resolved as melee touch attacks, ignoring opponents' armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses, and allowing you to Power Attack for your full BAB and still hit reliably.
Swift Fly (2nd): 60 ft. (good) fly speed.
Cloud of Knives (2nd): Make a free ranged dagger attack every round for 1d6+3, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it hits, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it hits.
Death Armor (2nd): Opponents take damage when striking you in melee, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it deals damage, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it deals damage.
Magic Circle Against Evil (3rd): Nongood extraplanar creatures cannot approach within 10 ft. of you, cannot attack protected creatures with natural weapons, immune to mind control effects.
Ray Deflection (4th): Ranged touch attacks against you automatically miss.
Friendly Fire (4th): Ranged attacks of any type against you can be automatically redirected to any valid target within 30 ft.
Fire Shield (4th, twice): Take reduced damage from fire and cold, opponents that strike you in melee take fire and cold damage, can add Fell Drain so it also deals a negative level when it deals damage, can add Fell Frighten so the target is Shaken for ten rounds when it deals damage.
Greater Invisibility (4th): You're always invisible.
Thunderlance (4th): You wield a weapon of force that can hit opponents at any distance from adjacent to 20 ft. away, it deals 3d6+Int damage, can put Greater Magic Weapon on it, can AoO up to 20 ft. away, it dispels force effects you hit with it. You can use it two-handed and Power Attack with it even.
Bite of the Werewolf (4th): +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +4 natural armor, bite attack, Blind Fight feat.
Dimension Jumper (5th): Teleport up to 30 ft. every round as a move action.
Draconic Polymorph (5th): Turn into any number of various monsters (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519.0), gain an additional +8 Str and +2 Con above what the selected form normally has.

That's seventeen spells, eighteen if you count Fire Shield twice. Combined with (Rod of) Extended Greater Luminous Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, Greater Magic Weapon, and various other hour/level or 24-hour buffs, you'll have the following stats at 9th level and the build you proposed:

Cave Troll form from Draconic Polymorph (Large size humanoid shape)
Str 39, Dex 17, Con 33
70 ft. land speed, fly 60 ft. (good)
AC 39 (-1 size, +3 dex, +15 natural, +4 shield, +8 armor), Touch 12, Incorporeal Touch 25, Flat-Footed 36, extra +2 Deflection vs attacks from evil creatures, melee attackers who rely on vision take a -4 penalty to hit you.
You're Invisible for 24 hours, regardless of what you do (other than dismissing it), so all attacks directed toward the correct square have a 50% miss chance, and spells that don't affect an area or make an attack roll cannot be targeted at you unless the caster or attacker can see invisible creatures.

Pounce, Rake, Rend, Improved Grab (Grapple +27), Dazing Blow (any target hit by both claws is Dazed unless they make a DC 25 Fort save).

(Power Attack for -9) 2 Claws +13 melee touch (2d6+23 plus Rend 3d6+21 plus Dazing Blow plus Improved Grab) and Bite +8 melee touch (1d8+16) and 2 Rakes +13 melee touch (2d6+16) and dagger +14 ranged 30 ft. max (1d6+3, 19-20/x2)
Or
(Power attack for -9) +2 Large Falchion +15/+10 melee touch (2d6+39, 18-20/x2) and Bite +8 melee touch (1d8+16) and dagger +14 ranged 30 ft. max (1d6+3, 19-20/x2)

Anyone that strikes you in melee takes 1d4+4 untyped damage, 1d6+9 fire damage, and 1d6+9 cold damage.

Every ranged attack against you can be automatically directed to hit any target you choose within 30 ft. of you, even the original attacker. This includes any ranged attack that makes an attack roll, such as ray spells.

Well **** I feel a little uncomfortable using it now hahaha

[JoshuaZ]

Well **** I feel a little uncomfortable using it now hahaha

You don't have to make it as crazy as this to still use it in an effective and powerful fashion. Instead of persisting every personal buff ever, you can also use to it just deal out a lot of damage (empowered twin maximized orb of force is fun) or use it to boost DCs with heighten. The power level is very much a function of how much optimizing you want to do. (And also some DMs will say no to some of these things like item familiars).