Silly Occult Adventures Things

[Vhaidara]

So, I've started looking at things othe rthan the kineticists, and I've found a few fun little things. Figured I'd put up a thread for discussing amusing little tricks.
The first one I noticed is with the spiritualist, getting a +16 save vs mind affecting spells and level 1.
Dwarf (+Wis, +2 vs spells)
20 Wis (+5)
Good Will save (+2)
Iron Will (free with Dedication phantom, +2)
Trait (+1)
Shared Consciousness (+4)

Oh, and if you roll a 1, you have the 1/day shunting into your phantom.

But yeah, even beyond that, I kind of want to see some spiritualist discussion. Personally, I like the look of a Fractured Mind tag team setup with an Anger phantom, or a Fear/Despair debuff build.

[Psyren]

Psychics with the Tranquility discipline get Calm Emotions as an SLA, but if they use it it will shut off most of their spellcasting because it is a non-harmless emotion effect. (Granted, it is duration concentration so you'd have a hard time casting anything while using it anyway, but it's still amusing that they are subject to their own ability.)

[Milo v3]

If you're a lich, make your phylactery and panoply bond the same object. As long as you're not destroyed your phylactery is now indestructible.

[Psyren]

If you're a lich, make your phylactery and panoply bond the same object. As long as you're not destroyed your phylactery is now indestructible.

No, it's just immune to the broken condition. That doesn't actually make it indestructible - what that means is that it suffers no penalties for being half-HP or lower. It can still be destroyed, and if you are restored to life it will come back, but if it is destroyed in the 1d10 days before it can revive you (or both you and the object are destroyed at the same time) then both it and you will stay gone.

[stack]

Dwarves can get another +2 vs spells with a feat, steel soul I think, so you can add that to the math.

[Starbuck_II]

So, I've started looking at things othe rthan the kineticists, and I've found a few fun little things. Figured I'd put up a thread for discussing amusing little tricks.
The first one I noticed is with the spiritualist, getting a +16 save vs mind affecting spells and level 1.
Dwarf (+Wis, +2 vs spells)
20 Wis (+5)
Good Will save (+2)
Iron Will (free with Dedication phantom, +2)
Trait (+1)
Shared Consciousness (+4)

Oh, and if you roll a 1, you have the 1/day shunting into your phantom.

But yeah, even beyond that, I kind of want to see some spiritualist discussion. Personally, I like the look of a Fractured Mind tag team setup with an Anger phantom, or a Fear/Despair debuff build.
The Ectoplasmist Spiritualist becomes a mini-magus at 3rd level, but unless you take two Words trait (a good choice is Brand from Inquisitor, but Touch of Fatigue is decent) you lack good 0th level cantrips for the extra attack.

[Slithery D]

You can stack Psychic Image, Mind Swap, Possession, and Akashic Form to require enemies to have to kill/search for your "real" body multiple times.

1. Cast Akashic Form
2. Mind Swap with someone.
3. Possess someone, leaving your mind swapped body vacant.
4. Cast Psychic Image.

First they attack your Psychic Image, which is immune to everything but mind affecting death effects. Then they track down and kill your Possessed form, so your mind goes back to your Mind Swapped body. If they show up to kill you again, dismiss your Mind Swap and go to your real body. If they find and kill that, your Akashic Form triggers, leaving you one more shot at victory or escape.

[Kurald Galain]

Illusion Occultist basically gains Greater Invis at level 3, and can get enough focus points to sustain that through two full combats.

[Slithery D]

Greater Create Mindscape is the best will save assassination tool for killing spell casters.


CREATE MINDSCAPE, GREATER
School illusion (phantasm) [mind-affecting]; Level mesmerist 6, psychic 6, sorcerer/wizard 7
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target one creature/level
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will disbelief; see text; Spell Resistance yes
This spell functions like create mindscape, except it can affect more creatures, the mindscape lasts longer, and you can choose the mindscape’s magic trait. You can also direct a number of believable creatures at a time equal to your caster level.
Greater create mindscape can be made permanent with a permanency spell by a caster of 15th level or higher at a cost of 17,500 gp. You and other creatures aware of a permanent mindscape can come and go using the mindscape door spell.


From Create Mindscape:

You designate where both you and your subject appear. You don’t need line of sight to draw the subject creature into the mindscape, but you must be aware of its presence within range. If you target an area with more than one sentient creature and you have never seen any of the creatures before (for example, if you know a group of soldiers is inside a barracks but you can’t see them through the door), the subject of this spell is selected at random. If you have seen firsthand the creature you wish to target (continuing the example, if you spied the sergeant entering the room moments before), you can select it unerringly from among all the creatures.

So cast Greater Mindscape on yourself, a few melee beatsticks (summons work!), and your spell casting victim. Keep in mind you can do this long range, and don't need line of sight or line of effect to the victim, so you can set up in a private room down the block from his house.

Set your mindscape's magic trait to dead magic, so that the only spell that functions inside is Mindscape Door to escape (and then only if the creator fails his will save). Make it harmful so everyone there can die and take real world damage. Position your beatsticks around the spell caster, and place the mandatory exit (which he only finds out about with a sucesful disbelief check inside the mindscape) through a maze or something, only accessible through a narrow passage blocked by one of your beatsticks.

Now watch him try to win a melee fight with no access to magic. Lesson: always prepare or have a scroll of Mindscape Door if you're in a campaign where your enemies have access to this spell. Or set it up so that someone can heal you when you get bounced after your HP hit zero or below.

This can also be used as a way to confuse, divide, and weaken anyone invading a dungeon. Those who fail their will saves are fighting for their lives against the caster and his chosen allies on terrain of this choosing where you've been placed according to his whim. Those who make their will saves are left staring at their friends seemingly staring into space, unable to help them in the fight or charge ahead and find the spellcaster who is somewhere within long range behind who knows what secret doors, traps, mazes, etc. Better have a dispel magic handy.

[Slithery D]

A permanent mindscape allows those how have been there before (through initial casting or a later Mindscape Door invite) to cast Mindscape Door to go there at any time, from any plane, to meet others. Perfect for a livedrop for spies who need to report in, or you can set the mindscape to harmless, and probably also the magic trait to dead, allowing it to be a neutral, perfectly safe meeting place for anyone who has been invited in. I like to imagine a magic exchange permanent Mindscape where a network of cooperative merchants from all the major planar cities can drop in to discuss what they're looking for and arrange trades in relatively safe places like Axis.


Illusion Occultist basically gains Greater Invis at level 3, and can get enough focus points to sustain that through two full combats.

Depending on how many attacks you plan to make "through two full combats," I suppose. Your focus points are level + INT modifier. So you get max 8 minutes at level 3, with a loss of 1 minute every time you attack and have to burn focus to keep the invisibility up.

[Slithery D]

There are several reasons Self Perfection is the best Psychic discipline, but the way each discipline regains phrenic pool is the most hilarious reason.


Abomination can't do it at all.

Dream has to be adjacent to a sleeper, succeed at a Diplomacy or Intimidate check, and only once per hour even then even if there are multiple sleepers available.

Faith has to cast healing spells, but only one per level.

Lore has to cast a limited selection of divination spells that have to at least partially succeed.

Pain has to use a damaging spell, followed by a swift action, and then roll a 5 or higher on a 1d6, 2d6 (8th level), or 3d6 (15th level).

Psychedelia can't do it at all.

Rapport or his allies must make a saving throw and burn an immediate action. Also limited per day by level (1+CL/4), not by Wis/Cha modifier like everyone else.

Self Perfection need only pass any Str/Con/Dex ability or skill check, enhanced by your Wis bonus. This means you only have to take an Acrobatics check at DC 4 to attempt a 1 foot high jump, or a DC 5 for a 5 ft long jump, in order to get a point back when ever you feel like it.

Tranquility must succeed at a Will saving throw.

Obviously these are hilariously imbalanced. At one extreme you've got poor Abomination and Psychedelia completely shut out of this ability (and trust, me, they're not otherwise overpowered or compensated elsewhere), at the other Self Perfection can do it basically at will.

In the middle Rapport and Tranquility can only attempt it if they're attacked, while Faith, Lore, and Pain have to burn spells of various utility and plausibility. Dream honestly makes me LOL harder than the two who can't do it at all.

[Kurald Galain]

Depending on how many attacks you plan to make "through two full combats," I suppose. Your focus points are level + INT modifier. So you get max 8 minutes at level 3, with a loss of 1 minute every time you attack and have to burn focus to keep the invisibility up.

Yeah, it doesn't work with full attacks, but you can cover two combats of four rounds each. Plus you can take a feat for two more points, if so inclined. Of course, you don't cast it willy-nilly, you either cast it in the first round of combat or when you're about to kick in the door, so to speak.

[Psyren]

FYI, the mods do frown on double- and triple-posting here.


Greater Create Mindscape is the best will save assassination tool for killing spell casters.


From Create Mindscape:


So cast Greater Mindscape on yourself, a few melee beatsticks (summons work!), and your spell casting victim. Keep in mind you can do this long range, and don't need line of sight or line of effect to the victim, so you can set up in a private room down the block from his house.

Set your mindscape's magic trait to dead magic, so that the only spell that functions inside is Mindscape Door to escape (and then only if the creator fails his will save). Make it harmful so everyone there can die and take real world damage. Position your beatsticks around the spell caster, and place the mandatory exit (which he only finds out about with a sucesful disbelief check inside the mindscape) through a maze or something, only accessible through a narrow passage blocked by one of your beatsticks.

Now watch him try to win a melee fight with no access to magic. Lesson: always prepare or have a scroll of Mindscape Door if you're in a campaign where your enemies have access to this spell. Or set it up so that someone can heal you when you get bounced after your HP hit zero or below.

Meh... If you can get a spellcaster to fail a mind-affecting will save to which SR applies, there are far worse things you can do to them than this. You can dominate them, possess them, render them permanently insane etc. Even worse, it's a disbelief save, so if they have any proof that the effect is an illusion (say... Spellcraft) then they don't even need to roll.


There are several reasons Self Perfection is the best Psychic discipline, but the way each discipline regains phrenic pool is the most hilarious reason.



Obviously these are hilariously imbalanced. At one extreme you've got poor Abomination and Psychedelia completely shut out of this ability (and trust, me, they're not otherwise overpowered or compensated elsewhere), at the other Self Perfection can do it basically at will.

Self-Perfection can only recover Wis-mod points per day this way however, so it's not like you get infinite phrenic points by hopping everywhere.

I personally prefer Tranquility - fear and confusion immunity, the former of which means mundanes have a very hard time stopping me from casting anything.

[Slithery D]

Meh... If you can get a spellcaster to fail a mind-affecting will save to which SR applies, there are far worse things you can do to them than this. You can dominate them, possess them, render them permanently insane etc. Even worse, it's a disbelief save, so if they have any proof that the effect is an illusion (say... Spellcraft) then they don't even need to roll.

I didn't say it was the best way to kill or disable a spellcaster, I said it was the best way to assassinate one. Long range plus no line of sight/effect is pretty unique. Yes, you then have to jump through some other hoops to actually kill them, but it's not hard to set it up as pretty much sure thing. A level 12 Psychic could cast this from any obscured location within 880 ft to pull any government official or important person into a mindscape and beat on him with a prepared crew unless a contingency or a quick Dispel Magic from some bodyguards saved him. Real world example: I'm pretty sure the fence around the White House isn't 880' feet from the Oval Office. Security perimeters would be impossible to maintain if you want a normal life.

If they had a contingency or a Dispel Magic that broke them free, or they made their will save? Try again, you're a spontaneous caster with lots of spell slots! Maybe he didn't think to teleport away yet.

And if they can't see you cast the spell (because you're a few houses over) they can't do Spellcraft checks, so from their perspective they were teleported/plane shifted into a new location where magic doesn't work and they're surrounded by enemies. If they make a disbelief save after that they just learn they're in a mindscape and where the exit is, but it doesn't make it feasible to actually reach it if you plan properly.

[Psyren]

It's an ongoing spell (i.e. it has a duration) so they don't have to spellcraft you, they can spellcraft the spell effect itself. All they need is detect magic or similar to see the aura.

Yeah, it's great for assassinating mundanes, but there's many ways to kill those.

Also, I see where it says you don't need line of sight, but where does it say you don't need line of effect?

[Slithery D]

Self-Perfection can only recover Wis-mod points per day this way however, so it's not like you get infinite phrenic points by hopping everywhere.

I personally prefer Tranquility - fear and confusion immunity, the former of which means mundanes have a very hard time stopping me from casting anything.

So it merely effectively doubles their Wis-mod to their pool, and also gives you a pretty useful ability if you want to use it for its intended purpose to help break down a door or sneak up on someone. Got it! I'm not saying phrenic pool replenishment is a core aspect of disciplines, but this one is way ahead of the others. And there's no excuse for similaryAbomination, Psychedelia, or Dream abilities being nonexistent or LOL-worthy.

Tranquility has really bad low level bonus spells, and you don't get that immunity to fear until 13th. By then you can cast buff spells that remove fear as a concern.


It's an ongoing spell (i.e. it has a duration) so they don't have to spellcraft you, they can spellcraft the spell effect itself. All they need is detect magic or similar to see the aura.

Yeah, it's great for assassinating mundanes, but there's many ways to kill those.

Also, I see where it says you don't need line of sight, but where does it say you don't need line of effect?

You can't spellcraft the effect until it's in existence, and then it's too late, you're inside it, and you probably didn't see the caster concealed in darkness, invisibility, or a fog bank 800' away in order to Spellcraft identify what he was casting. Mindscapes have very specific disbelief limitations once you've been drawn in. The spell doesn't end, you just realize it's a mindscape and get the knowledge of where the exit is and how it works.

You're right, there's nothing about about line of effect, my mistake. So you're limited to hitting the President from concealment while he walks to his helicopter or car or addresses an outdoor rally, you can't get him inside a building.

[Psyren]

So it merely effectively doubles their Wis-mod to their pool, and also gives you a pretty useful ability if you want to use it for its intended purpose to help break down a door or sneak up on someone. Got it! I'm not saying phrenic pool replenishment is a core aspect of disciplines, but this one is way ahead of the others. And there's no excuse for similaryAbomination, Psychedelia, or Dream abilities being nonexistent or LOL-worthy.

Wis isn't a primary stat for psychics though, so doubling your mod (and not even automatically) isn't a big deal. If you have more than a 12 or 14 there you're probably wasting point buy that could have gone elsewhere.



You can't spellcraft the effect until it's in existence, and then it's too late, you're inside it, and you probably didn't see the caster concealed in darkness, invisibility, or a fog bank 800' away in order to Spellcraft identify what he was casting.

It's never too late, it's a disbelievable illusion. You get a save every time you interact with it.

[Slithery D]

It's never too late, it's a disbelievable illusion. You get a save every time you interact with it.

Yes, but disbelieving it isn't particularly useful. From Create Mindscape.
You must also create a method of exit from the mindscape when you cast this spell, and that method must be possible to achieve based on the traits of the mindscape, even if it is obscure or difficult. The GM decides whether a method of escape is reasonable. Anything that would be a reasonable method of waking from a dream during deep sleep could allow one to leave a mindscape.

...

If you choose to create a veiled mindscape, the first time another creature interacts with the environment, it can attempt a Will save to disbelieve the effect. Disbelieving a mindscape reveals to that creature that it’s within a mindscape and gives it the knowledge needed to leave the mindscape, but doesn’t free it from the mindscape. For example, if you create a mindscape that takes the form of a parlor inside a stately mansion, and your target creature succeeds at its Will save, it gains the understanding that walking out the front door of the mansion allows it to return to its physical body, but it must actually move through the mental landscape of the mansion to reach the front door and exit in order to flee the mindscape. If the mindscape is overt, the creature automatically knows how to exit if it so chooses.

So if you fail your first Will save, you're in the Mindscape. With long range, no line of sight required, and lots of concealment opportunities, it's not hard to cast it so that the target can't see you and can't use Spellcraft to identify it as an illusion.

Once in the mindscape you can make more Will saves to disbelieve, but it does not free you. It only shows you how to get free, but that doesn't mean the obstacles to reaching that point are very practical. Just create a minimal room to hold the target, your allies surrounding him, and put the exit at the end of a 500' (or 5 mile...) tunnel that is also blocked by your allies that you brought in.

If you were wondering if disbelief makes you immune from damage in a mindscape, no. Page 236.
Overt: Overt mindscapes are obvious to anyone drawn into them. This might be because the individual deliberately hosts and invites others, or because targets know they’re being psychically attacked and caught in the mindscape, and therefore understand what has happened to them. When a creature knows it is in a mindscape, it can exit more easily (using the mindscape door spell), but this knowledge makes the immersive mindscape no less real to it. It can still be affected by the mindscape, and can still take damage or gain conditions from a harmful mindscape (see Feedback below). Binary mindscapes are always overt.

Mindscape spells are what Freddy Krueger uses to drag you into his dream realm, take away your spells (with Greater Create Mindscape), and force you to fight him hand to claw to reach the exit. Plus his friends, if he brought them. Your only defenses are to make the first Will save, never be exposed to someone casting it at you, have a contingent Dispel Magic on yourself, have allies Dispel your body before you get killed, win a melee fight without your spells, or cast Mindscape Door (and have the caster fail his save) to escape.

The key take away is that mindscapes are essentially mental demiplanes, but in some ways even more powerful. You wouldn't want to be pulled into a Wizard's prepared demiplane to fight him in real life, and you don't want to be pulled into a Psychic's on the fly, full round cast version, either. He can build any terrain (or gravity effects) he wants, put you where he wants, put his allies where he wants, put the exit wherever he wants (behind whatever obstacles and allies he wants), and limit magic there however he wants. It's really, really bad news. Make that will save, be a bad ass fighter who can overcome all those deficiencies, or cast mindscape dooor until the mindscape creator fails his save.

I think a lot of people overlooked this because the rules are complicated, scattered between spell descriptions and the mindscape rules at the back, and because everyone looked first at psychic duels, which use a very weak and pretty useless variant of mindscapes through binary mindscapes. Immersive mindscapes are no joke and let you use your full abilities (hindered however you choose through magic traits) rather than the pathetic psychic dueling rules.

[Psyren]

Fair enough, but I think you're being a little too restrictive with this line:

"You must also create a method of exit from the mindscape when you cast this spell, and that method must be possible to achieve based on the traits of the mindscape, even if it is obscure or difficult."

Now, the line between "possible but difficult" and "impossible" can be a tough one to draw. "a squishy mage getting through 5 miles of allied swords and unfamiliar terrain with worse class features than a commoner" doesn't seem possible to me.

But again, all this is assuming that you are able to get line of effect to a spellcaster, beat his will save, beat his SR, and affect him with a mind-affecting phantasm. Useful if you can land it? Maybe. "Best spellcaster assassination?" I'm not seeing it.

[Slithery D]

Fair enough, but I think you're being a little too restrictive with this line:

"You must also create a method of exit from the mindscape when you cast this spell, and that method must be possible to achieve based on the traits of the mindscape, even if it is obscure or difficult."

Now, the line between "possible but difficult" and "impossible" can be a tough one to draw. "a squishy mage getting through 5 miles of allied swords and unfamiliar terrain with worse class features than a commoner" doesn't seem possible to me.

But again, all this is assuming that you are able to get line of effect to a spellcaster, beat his will save, beat his SR, and affect him with a mind-affecting phantasm. Useful if you can land it? Maybe. "Best spellcaster assassination?" I'm not seeing it.

I think "possible to achieve based on the traits of the mindscape" means you can't put it at the top of a 500' tall, 50' wide chimney if your mindscape has normal gravity and is designed like a giant's castle. But you could if it had no or subjective gravity, and you could put it at the top of a normal chimney that could you can fit into and climb with a reasonable climb check. Oops, lots of wizards struggle with reasonable climb checks... Another example would be you can put it at the bottom of a swimming pool (dive down), but not at the bottom of an ocean. If you can imagine it as a dream condition, complete with the (reasonable!) fear that you can't actually get there, it's ok.

Even if we restrict ourselves to the front door of the mansion example, you can ensure your target is pretty screwed just by putting them in a normal room with all of your allies surrounding them and between them and the door. Then if they somehow get past they have to run a chase through unfamiliar hallways, maybe up or down stairs, to find and get to the door. It's enough.

As far as best assassination spell, I guess I'd ask what you consider better so we can refine what we each mean by "assassination." I think a sniper rifle is better than a car bomb as an assassination tool because it's targetable, doesn't cause collateral damage to others, lets you attack from far away and potentially escape before you're even identfied by the targets guards, and is more reliable in the sense that you can aim it and don't have to rely on the target to get close (remotely detonated on the side of the street) or put your own life directly at risk (drive up in a suicide attack). But the bomb is definitely the more deadly method. It's just not better for what I consider the qualities of an assassination.

For my criteria a better spell would have to have long range (metamagic enhancers certainly allowed), be a save or die (or essentially certain death), and have some way to disguise where the attack came from (no disintegrate rays). There's obviously lots of fudge factors for comparison, like relative spell levels, speed/lack of counters (mindscape can be escaped with the appropriate spell or a friendly dispel), and the required investment in minions/allies for my version of a mindscape attack.

As an example, Phantasmal Killer has some good comparable attributes for my definition of a good assassination spell. But it's lower level, so lower DC, it allows 2 saves, it's shorter range (requireing metamagic investment), and it's a fear affect, so lots of things immune to fear wouldn't be affected.

A high level summon monster would have serious range restrictions, space restrictions (can you fit them around your target?), bigger time issues than mindscape, more escape options and potential for ally interference than mindscape, etc.

[Psyren]

Dead magic is a trait though - so if you shut off their spellcasting and present a situation they couldn't solve without spellcasting, that is an impossibility due to the trait.

[Slithery D]

Dead magic is a trait though - so if you shut off their spellcasting and present a situation they couldn't solve without spellcasting, that is an impossibility due to the trait.

You can walk down a hallway without spell casting. The angry fighters with swords aren't a trait of the mindscape. Those are the typical demiplanar ones.

[Psyren]

You can walk down a hallway without spell casting. The angry fighters with swords aren't a trait of the mindscape. Those are the typical demiplanar ones.

"Walk down a hallway" is not the standard though; "exiting the mindscape" is. Whether a wizard with no spells or items can make it through your hallway is the question.

[Slithery D]

"Walk down a hallway" is not the standard though; "exiting the mindscape" is. Whether a wizard with no spells or items can make it through your hallway is the question.

I agree, a wizard with no spells or items should be able to exit the mindscape as designed and with the planar traits assigned. The future actions/intentions/capabilities of other targets of the spell, however, have no bearing on that.

Your reasoning on this would suggest that sending a charmed person into a building that you know will get hit by a catastrophic meteor would be an invalid request. That's obviously absurd, the target doesn't know it's a certain death action, so he'll do it. Similarly, just because you know (or think you do) that some allies are going to stop the wizard from escaping doesn't mean the spell does. If he can physically escape from the terrain you created it's a valid spell, regardless of whether some outside force (other targets) plan to stop him.

[Vhaidara]

Guys, fascinating discussion, and technically on topic, but this is turning into a conversation between the two of you. Might I suggest either a new thread or PMs?

Also, I found more things. As Stack pointed out, you can make your level 1 feat Steel Soul for another +2, and you can swap your trait over to one of the ones that gives +2 vs mind affecting, for a total of +19.

Also, if you're doing level 1 one offs, Battle Host Occultist can let you start off with a suit of Masterwork Full Plate, free of charge.

[Extra Anchovies]

A permanent mindscape allows those how have been there before (through initial casting or a later Mindscape Door invite) to cast Mindscape Door to go there at any time, from any plane, to meet others. Perfect for a livedrop for spies who need to report in, or you can set the mindscape to harmless, and probably also the magic trait to dead, allowing it to be a neutral, perfectly safe meeting place for anyone who has been invited in. I like to imagine a magic exchange permanent Mindscape where a network of cooperative merchants from all the major planar cities can drop in to discuss what they're looking for and arrange trades in relatively safe places like Axis.

Something like (http://i.imgur.com/lJpfefm.jpg) this (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100602140312/runescape/images/archive/0/01/20110816091241!The_G.E._2.png)?


Depending on how many attacks you plan to make "through two full combats," I suppose. Your focus points are level + INT modifier. So you get max 8 minutes at level 3, with a loss of 1 minute every time you attack and have to burn focus to keep the invisibility up.

It works great for a support Occultist; it's entirely possible to get through a fight using only Servitor, Obey, and Binding Pattern, and letting your allies deal the hit point damage.

[Kurald Galain]

Also, I found more things. As Stack pointed out, you can make your level 1 feat Steel Soul for another +2, and you can swap your trait over to one of the ones that gives +2 vs mind affecting, for a total of +19.

Why do I keep reading that feat as Steal Soul? :smallamused:

[Slithery D]

1. Dwarves and Half-orcs get the same Mesmerist favored class bonus, but the Dwarves' version is half as strong.

Dwarves
Mesmerist: Increase painful stare’s damage by 1/4 point.

Half-Orcs
Mesmerist: Increase the mesmerist’s bonus damage from painful stare by 1/2 point.

2. The Psychic Duelist archetype focuses on a option that I think is objectively garbage, but this ability is mildly interesting.


Thought Made Real (Su): At 9th level, a psychic duelist can bring offensive manifestations directly into her foes’ minds, attacking with them without entering a psychic duel. When doing so, she can generate manifestation points only by sacrificing a spell, not through any other methods. Using an offensive manifestation in this way functions as casting a spell with a full-round-action casting time. Conditions imposed by these offensive manifestations last for their full duration, even though the target isn’t in a psychic duel. The psychic duelist can use manifestation amplifications on offensive manifestations created this way. Such offensive manifestations can’t affect thought-form creatures. This is a mind-affecting illusion (phantasm) effect. A thought- form creature manifested in this way is visible only to its target. This ability replaces telepathic bond.

There's no range limitation listed! Probably an oversight, I bet most GMs will limit it to Instigate Psychic Duel's medium, and that's enough anyway.

The obvious trap exploit is it lets you convert any spell into a damage and/or debuff that skips spell resistance and elemental resistances. You also can choose to either make it a touch attack or pick a save, although those options do reduce your points available for damage/debuff. But the damage conversion is pretty bad, and the debuffs don't last long and are expensive.

No, the real silly but maybe interesting option here is the Thought Form. I don't see any way for the target to fight back against the form (although it can still kill you, if for some reason you're not under Improved Invisibility and as far away as you can get), so for a very efficient expenditure of MPs you can get an invulnerable summon equivalent with the limitation that you have to fully concentrate every round and it can only attack one creature. Stat block for a level 1 spell expenditure before augmentations:
Thought-Form Creature Statistics: AC creator’s AC; touch AC creator’s touch AC; hp 1/2 creator’s current hit points; Attack Bonus creator’s manifesting level + creator’s Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (whichever is highest); Damage 1d6 + creator’s Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (whichever is highest); Saves creator’s save bonuses; Psychic Backlash 1d10 + the MP cost of the thought-form creature

Only the attack stats are relevant, the defender can't attack the thought form because he's not actually in a psychic duel. You can burn higher spells for better effects, but compare this effect to something like spamming Magic Missile every round. Less DPR, but only one spell expenditure and no SR, yet you can't move.

I dunno, it's at least interesting. See if your DM will let you get away with not maintaining line of sight.

3. All four Psychic archetypes arguably* stack, allowing you to be a forgetful, mutating, would be incorporeal Psychic who concentrates on psychic duels.

* - Psychic duelists lose their 4th level discipline bonus spell, and the Formless Adept trades away all discipline abilities, including spells, but gets replacement spells (2 per level) usable only while in a formless body. I think most GMs would let you trade those away to meet the duelist requirement.

[Slithery D]

Psychic disciplines powers let three disciplines heal themselves (Faith, Pain, Self Perfection), three can become immune to or heal fear effects (Abomination, Pain, Tranquility), three can boost saves (Faith, Rapport, Tranquility), two can boost DCs (Abomination, Psychedelia), and two can do extra spell damage (Abomination, Pain).

But none of these similar abilities use comparable mechanics, and Lore and Dream alone have none of these capabilities and are the most useless disciplines for PCs.

[Extra Anchovies]

I dunno, Lore is one of my favorites. Why? You get a giant library that is literally inside your mind. And you can take your friends there. Too cool to pass up, if you ask me. Also it's got a pretty solid spell list, and the phrenic pool recovery method is a good one after you've got enough spell slots to spam Augury.

[Slithery D]

Dream discipline Psychics get Dream Travel, a 9th level Psychic only spell, as their 8th level bonus spell. :smallconfused:


I dunno, Lore is one of my favorites. Why? You get a giant library that is literally inside your mind. And you can take your friends there. Too cool to pass up, if you ask me. Also it's got a pretty solid spell list, and the phrenic pool recovery method is a good one after you've got enough spell slots to spam Augury.

Lore is absolutely my favorite flavor wise, and the spell list is my favorite, too. But mechanically I'd rather have almost anything else available than the ability to memorize stuff, disarm written traps, get a small bonus on knowledge skills, and sleep on the floor of my library while I eat trail rations. The phrenic recovery is nice, I'd be mind probing lots of prisoners in later levels.

I've really gone all over the place in how I assess the disciplines. I was obsessed with Lore on first reading, but the others (except Dream and Tranquility) have really grown on me and seem clearly better for most things a PC will face. Right now I'd say Abomination (if you don't care about a garbage spell list) and Pain are in the lead, both would synch well with the Mutation Mind archetype, and if you pick Amnesiac and human favored class bonus you don't care as much about bad discipline spells.

[Psyren]

Dream discipline Psychics get Dream Travel, a 9th level Psychic only spell, as their 8th level bonus spell. :smallconfused:

That means they get it earlier than other Psychics, per the Bloodline FAQ.

[Slithery D]

Thanks! I suspected that was the case, but wasn't sure.

I'm really dumb sometimes. For some reason it's never occurred to me before that the Dream discipline powers work on targets magically compelled to sleep, since the requirement is just that they be asleep and are capable of dreaming, not that they are actually doing so naturally. And of course the 1st, 3rd, and 6th level spells compel sleep. Doh! This is actually playable and at low levels can be good. Are there ways to boost the HD cap on Deep Slumber?

So here's something silly, the 13th level Waking Dream doesn't list a save and doesn't leave any memory of your hijacking of their, so it's largely superior to Possession and even Greater Possession spells with the two feat chain ending in Manipulative Presence (modify 5 minutes of possessed creature's memory), and you can spam it a number of times equal to your Charisma bonus.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Speaking of Psychic disciplines:

The final ability of the psychedelia discipline could produce extreme problems. As far as I can tell, there's no way to turn the hallucinogenic aura off.

For your closest allies (your party members), this is no big deal; you just take the time to brew them your monthly dose of antidote.

Where it gets bad is if you enter a crowded town or city, or sit down to a diplomatic meeting, or literally get close to anybody you don't wish to risk accidentally embarrassing, harming, or even killing.

Just walking down a crowded street could leave a swath of violence and terror in your wake, as 90% of the commoners on the street succumb to your drug-addled mind and begin attacking each other.

Basically, a 13th level psychedelia psychic has to send proxies into civilized regions or risk spontaneous outbreaks of violence.

Now if you'll excuse me, this mushroom I just ate has turned me into a series of blue stone discs spinning off into the void. #420BLAZEIT

[(Un)Inspired]

Has anyone talked about the fact that the Occultist is totally Link from The Legend of Zelda? They go around exploring ancient temples using magical instruments and gloves and rods to produce magical effects.

They have high int (for puzzle solving) and a ton of skill points while being good and fighting.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Has anyone talked about the fact that the Occultist is totally Link from The Legend of Zelda? They go around exploring ancient temples using magical instruments and gloves and rods to produce magical effects.

They have high int (for puzzle solving) and a ton of skill points while being good and fighting.

Of all the new classes, I still don't really know what to make of the Occultist. It sort of feels a little bit like Incarnum? I just don't really know what to do with it.

[Milo v3]

I want to like the occultist, but I'm still disappointed that my playtest occultist can't work anymore with the change to how the necromancy familiars work.

[Draco_Lord]

I want to like the occultist, but I'm still disappointed that my playtest occultist can't work anymore with the change to how the necromancy familiars work.

I haven't seen the changes, what did they do to the familiar?

[Milo v3]

I haven't seen the changes, what did they do to the familiar?

It's no longer permanent. Instead, now you have to spend points from your pool to get a puppet or flesh familiar for a few minutes.

[Slithery D]

So a 18th level Dream Psychic can force enemies without access to Dispel Magic to kill him 5 times before it will stick, and then only if they are willing to kill three of their allies.

1. Cast Akashic Form.
2. Cast Greater Possession. One enemy is inhabited, your body disappears.
3. Cast Mind Swap. Another enemy is inhabited, his mind is in the body of his ally who you Greater Possessed.
4. Put someone to sleep with Deep Slumber or Cloak of Dreams.
5. Use Waking Dream discipline ability. Your mind swapped body is comatose, you inhabit the sleepers body, your possessed body is inhabited by the mind of the mind swap victim, and your body is nowhere, subsumed in the body of the possessed.
6. Come at me, bro.

To kill you they have to:

1. Kill (or dispel) your Waking Dream body. Your mind goes to the Mind Swap victim.
2. Kill (or dispel) your Mind Swap body.
3. Kill (or dispel) your Greater Possession body.
4. Kill your real body. Surprise, Akashic Form!
5. Kill you again.
6. That Psychic, he ded.

It's a shame Bilocation doesn't work like Fission, or you could add one more link to this.

Mind Swap is tricky here, I think you could short circuit a step by killing the Possessed form to end the Mind Swap. The MS victim gets his body back, you go back to the Possessed form (which is dead), so your body pops out. This depends on exactly how the "acts like possession, but both ways" is supposed to be interpreted. This potentially makes Mind Swap really risky in normal circumstances, a death on either end would send that person back to their own safe body. You better really trust the other person not to suicide or get careless.

[Psychoalpha]

Not to reignite the argument, but just for the sake of my clarity...

From Create Mindscape:


If you target an area with more than one sentient creature and you have never seen any of the creatures before (for example, if you know a group of soldiers is inside a barracks but you can’t see them through the door), the subject of this spell is selected at random.

Doesn't that sort of indicate the spell can be used without line of effect, or am I missing something?

[Slithery D]

Not to reignite the argument, but just for the sake of my clarity...

From Create Mindscape:



Doesn't that sort of indicate the spell can be used without line of effect, or am I missing something?

Yeah, I think that's what probably triggered my thought, then I went looking for line of effect specifically and didn't find it. I'm not sure the spell designer thought through all the implications of this spell.