Has Hel officially voted as of strip 1001? (Proxy versus ZOT)

[Lexible]

In 998 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html), Loki and Heimdall's high priests cast "Summon Proxy" and through these proxies, Loki and Heimdall make their case for their votes to the Northern Gods' Godsmoot.

However in 999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html), we see that both Loki and Heimdall's high priests get ZOTTed, just like all the other voting high priests of the Northern Gods' pantheon, in order to cast their gods' respective votes.

In 1000 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html), Durkon casts "Summon Proxy," and Hel goes all gloaty evil villain, and declares her vote, but Durkon has not actually been ZOTTed to (officially?) declare Hel's vote.

Has Hel therefore not yet officially voted as of 1000 (or 1001)?

[Gift Jeraff]

Durkon's voice is glowing with divine colors at the end of #1000, Page 2, so I'd guess yes.

[Douglas]

This is exactly the sort of nitpicking minutiae that I really really doubt Rich cares about. Hel's high priest, glowing with the northern pantheon's divine aura and following a supporting statement directly from Hel herself, explicitly stated on the floor of the godsmoot using the divine yellow voice "Hel votes YES". To count that as anything but an official vote would seem intentionally obtuse to me.

[Lexible]

Durkon's voice is glowing with divine colors at the end of #1000, Page 2, so I'd guess yes.

That is exactly it, Gift Jeraff: I saw his yellow voice, bubble, but missed the yellow aura outlining him, that matched the ZOTTed priests the page before. Thanks!

Douglas, you seem chaffed that I asked a question that wasn't one that you personally would have asked (and to which the first answer clarified). I'm not sure what kind of response you are angling for, but cheerio.

[LoRdofCookIES]

On a sidenote to that, now that Hel has officially voted shouldn't her vote count even if Durcula get's killed or thown out of the room?

[Mad Humanist]

On a sidenote to that, now that Hel has officially voted shouldn't her vote count even if Durcula get's killed or thown out of the room?

Maybe when there finally is a decision to destroy the world, you would get a yellow beam shooting up from the high priests like we got from the other pantheons. May be what Roy is trying to do (without him knowing the details) is interrupt that beam.

[Filadan]

On a sidenote to that, now that Hel has officially voted shouldn't her vote count even if Durcula get's killed or thown out of the room?

It's currently a tie. I know from another thread when they were talking about loopholes and such it seemed that if during the tie breaker if someone "leaves" that their vote likely no longer count.

[LoRdofCookIES]

I see. Thanks!

[Gift Jeraff]

Looking back at #999, we don't see Heimdall or Loki's high priests zot'd, so Summon Proxy may be a way of receiving the effect on the caster's behalf.

[NerdyKris]

It's currently a tie. I know from another thread when they were talking about loopholes and such it seemed that if during the tie breaker if someone "leaves" that their vote likely no longer count.

It's not that it seems that way from forum speculation, that's exactly what Roy and Wrecan said in the previous strip.

[Codyage]

Why does Hel bring up Heimdall? Either he doesn't care that Hel is going to get those souls. Or, if he does care, he just has his proxy leave the room. All though, I guess technically NO! Is winning, since that gnome left to go and search for the demigods. All though, we also haven't seen Njord, the gnome with the hat either. So maybe something else is going on?

[Sylian]

Why does Hel bring up Heimdall? Either he doesn't care that Hel is going to get those souls. Or, if he does care, he just has his proxy leave the room.There's probably a rule against leaving early, and Heimdall is most likely Lawful.

[NerdyKris]

Hel brought up Heimdell to establish that the gods can't just change their vote. It's a reasonable assumption, but it's still something that needed to be verified.

As for having his cleric leave the room, there's probably a rule against that as well. But "The gods don't think of that possibility" is also probable.

[Warren Dew]

Why does Hel bring up Heimdall? Either he doesn't care that Hel is going to get those souls. Or, if he does care, he just has his proxy leave the room. All though, I guess technically NO! Is winning, since that gnome left to go and search for the demigods. All though, we also haven't seen Njord, the gnome with the hat either. So maybe something else is going on?
I think that's evidence that leaving the room doesn't negate your god's vote.

Heck, killing Durkula doesn't have to negate Hel's vote; without Durkula there, a different group of demigod high priests can be brought in and the vote can go a different way.

[NerdyKris]

He might just be yelling into the vestibule through the doorway, or the room consists of more than just that one area. Wrecan stated that leaving the room nullifies their vote, and many of the people in the room, including clerics, are looking at Roy like he's coming to save the day, and not like he's an idiot who's just delaying the inevitable. There's no reason to think otherwise until it's clearly stated.

[Roland Itiative]

Durkon's voice is glowing with divine colors at the end of #1000, Page 2, so I'd guess yes.

I don't think it's exactly Durkula's voice, but Hel's voice. It seems, to me, that the proxy always speaks through the caster's mouth, and whether the balloon is shown on the caster or the god's image is simply up to convenience. Durkula is not completing Hel's sentence in that panel, her voice has been coming out of his mouth all along.

Anyway, their little speech does seem to be irrelevant before the upwards beam of light and the "ZOT!" sound effect, or else there would be no reason for Loki's and Heimdall's proxies to repeat their votes. Maybe Odin would need to "officialise" Hel's right to vote before she could actually send it, and that hasn't happened yet.

[Peelee]

Douglas, you seem chaffed that I asked a question that wasn't one that you personally would have asked (and to which the first answer clarified). I'm not sure what kind of response you are angling for, but cheerio.

I read Douglas' comment as calling your proposal out as needlessly complex and relying on legal minutae technicalities. And i agree with him.

More to the point, if she has not properly cast her vote, there's no danger. The drama in the battle is that the fate of the world lies in its outcome. If the Nay side wins anyway, what's the point of it all? Its just a dude hitting a dwarf.

[Olinser]

Hel brought up Heimdell to establish that the gods can't just change their vote. It's a reasonable assumption, but it's still something that needed to be verified.

As for having his cleric leave the room, there's probably a rule against that as well. But "The gods don't think of that possibility" is also probable.

I'm not sure why she'd mention Heimdall.

Of any of the 'yes' votes Tyr would be most likely to change, given his stated reasoning. Hel is about to get a MAJOR strategic advantage over him.

[DeliaP]

Why does Hel bring up Heimdall? Either he doesn't care that Hel is going to get those souls. Or, if he does care, he just has his proxy leave the room. All though, I guess technically NO! Is winning, since that gnome left to go and search for the demigods. All though, we also haven't seen Njord, the gnome with the hat either. So maybe something else is going on?

I believe Hel specifically addresses Heimdall because he's the only other divine presence that voted Yes left in the room. The zotted divine presences all disappeared when Durkula made his dramatic entrance: only the summoned proxies remained.

[martianmister]

Wrecan stated that leaving the room nullifies their vote

But Hight Priest of Balder just leaved the room to find priests of demigods. So, Hel already won? :smallbiggrin:

[Lexible]

Looking back at #999, we don't see Heimdall or Loki's high priests zot'd, so Summon Proxy may be a way of receiving the effect on the caster's behalf.

I am inclined to think that your first response nailed it, and that it is all in the yellow aura that Durkon, and Loki and Heimdall's high priests share. :)

[SirKazum]

This is exactly the sort of nitpicking minutiae that I really really doubt Rich cares about.

Ordinarily, that would be a very good point. However, pretty much this entire storyline hinges upon exploiting loopholes in a highly formalized procedure. So, right now, this sort of nitpicking minutia does fit really well with Rich's storytelling. It would show cleverness on Roy's part to exploit that (using his Intelligence in combat :smallwink:), if that was how he went about it.

I mean, the way it was played out was also clever (and it is an exploitation of a nitpicky detail, i.e. "the priest isn't physically there anymore so the vote doesn't count"), although it's really hard in my mind to justify why killing a high priest is a better solution than someone just leaving the room. Rich tried to address that in-comic with the "no backsies" dialogue, but that sounds like a weak justification to me; some priest whose god voted "yes" could simply decide to leave the room, based on this new development, and it wouldn't necessarily reflect a change of vote by their deity. Maybe there are strict rules on the priests' behavior to make sure everything they do in there is exclusively meant as a reflection of their deity's participation in the Godsmoot, but that's not made clear (and Durkula's antics kinda speak contrary to that as well).

That said...


Douglas, you seem chaffed that I asked a question that wasn't one that you personally would have asked (and to which the first answer clarified). I'm not sure what kind of response you are angling for, but cheerio.

Really unnecessary comment, IMHO.