Reach Weapons and AoO's

[Water Bob]

When an attacker attempts a Sunder or Disarm maneuver, the target gets an Attack of Opportunity before the Sunder or Disarm attempt is made (unless the attacker has a Feat that negates the AoO).

What if the attacker uses a reach weapon? Sure, the defender will close distance on his turn, but for that one attack, does the target not get his AoO?

In other words, if you use a Reach weapon to do a Sunder or Disarm, does that negate the target's usual Attack of Opportunity?




I'm thinking that it does.

But, I"m also willing to hear counter arguments.

Thoughts?

[BowStreetRunner]

The key to understanding the rules regarding Attacks of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm) in this situation is that "An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you." Note that they have to both take an action that would provoke an attack of opportunity, and they have to do so in a square that you threaten. Whether someone attempts to move past an unarmed person to Sunder someone using reach, if they don't threaten the square in question they cannot take advantage of any AoO you provoke.

[Water Bob]

So, we're saying the same thing. If a Reach weapon is used to Disarm or Sunder, then the target doesn't get his usual Attack of Opportunity.

[nyjastul69]

If the target of your sunder or disarm attempt doesn't threaten your square, the attempt doesn't provoke an AoO.

[WhamBamSam]

Trying to Sunder with a reach weapon still provokes an AoO, but if your tender flesh isn't within reach so that they can take said AoO, then generally speaking, they can't make one. There are however some corner cases where it potentially matters that you're still provoking. Evasive Reflexes and Stormguard Warrior from ToB arguably allow you to convert the provoked AoO into a 5ft step or a +4 to the next round's attack and damage rolls against you, respectively. The Ghostly Tail spell in Races of the Dragon, which does its thing (smacking your opponent for some force damage) "if your foe takes an action that would provoke an attack of opportunity from you, even if you are not holding a melee weapon that would normally threaten your foe," so it'll smack them even if they're at reach.

[Water Bob]

I didn't know that there was an Official answer to this, but someone alerted me that this question was answered in the WOTC FAQ.

Here's what the FAQ says:


If an enemy makes an attack against me that would provoke an attack of opportunity (such as a disarm or grapple attempt), do I get the attack of opportunity if I can’t reach him? Would the Close-Quarters Fighting feat help at all?

Strictly speaking, if you don’t threaten an enemy, you can’t make attacks of opportunity against that enemy. Thus, if an ogre tried to sunder your elf’s longsword from 10 feet away, you wouldn’t get an attack of opportunity against the ogre (since an elf wielding a longsword doesn’t threaten an enemy 10 feet away). This is true even if the ogre is reaching out with his hand, such as when trying to grapple you.

Even the Close-Quarters Fighting feat doesn’t help, since that feat applies only when the attack of opportunity against a grappling foe normally would be denied by “a feat or special ability that would normally bypass the attack” and lists Improved Grapple and improved grab as examples.

If, as DM, this bothers your sensibilities and you and your players are willing to bend the letter of the rules a bit, consider the following house rule that the Sage has used in his games in the past: If a foe would provoke an attack of opportunity with any action that brings him (or something he holds) into contact with you or your space, you can make an attack of opportunity against the foe (or the object he holds, if that’s what’s contacting you). This means that an ogre trying to initiate a grapple would provoke an attack of opportunity that you could make against the ogre (since his hand and arm are clearly coming within your reach to grab you), while the same ogre trying to sunder your weapon with his greatclub would provoke an attack of opportunity that you could make only against the greatclub (that is, with a disarm or sunder attempt).