View Full Version : What DC are these moves?

2007-05-10, 01:34 PM
Gymnastics video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkjSF2VwP4)

Check out this video and discuss: What DC skill checks are required to do these amazing gymnastics?

I was thinking - these people are succeeding on their checks on average, so they have to be within 10 points of the DC before they roll.
They'll have some synergy bonuses.
They're helping each other.
They're not using magic.
They've not been killing monsters to get their XP, just training.
They're under thirty years old.
They're human.

I'm just curious - how would the playgrounders rule these moves and build characters who could do them?

2007-05-10, 01:44 PM
bad link, bad

2007-05-10, 01:47 PM
bad link, bad

Um... the link works fine for me. What's wrong with it?

2007-05-10, 02:19 PM
Well, they are Level 4ish experts with max ranks in balance, tumble, etc, they started with high dex and bumped it at L4 and all of their feats are skill focus in gymnast-esq skills.

It's not like they need spring attack.

2007-05-10, 02:21 PM
I'm sure Complete Scoundrel and Complete Adventurer have some options for this kind of thing.

2007-05-10, 02:32 PM
No idea what DC the skill checks are, but I'm guessing that the entire thing is doable by human Exp3s with an average array (13/12/11/10/9/8) with the best two stats in Str and Dex.

Max Balance, Jump, and Tumble, take Acrobatic and Skill Focus (Balance) at 1st level, and you're in the ballpark. (There's probably a skill trick or two, and a teamwork benefit, which aren't in RAW because they don't have any obvious combat apps, but they probably aren't necessary for it.)

At 3rd level, all the crucial skills are at 6 ranks, +2 from synergy, with an additional +2/+3 from feats and at least a further +1 from ability scores, for a total in the +11/+12 range. Add in two aid another checks, and you're looking at a +15 bonus for the one who's actually making the Jump/Tumble checks.

After that it's just a matter of doing something that looks impressive but isn't a problem to pull off given your encumbrance.

2007-05-10, 02:45 PM
Edo's maths puts the DC at about 25.
I was thinking this sort of thing ought to need a higher DC than that! More like 30...

2007-05-10, 03:05 PM
I haven't looked at the vidio, but top-of-the-line gymnasts in reality are generally physically exceptional. A really good, trained gymnast could have a tumble modifier of 15-18... 5-7 skill ranks, depending on level, +2 synergy, +3 focus, +2 Acrobatic, +3-4 dex modifier. If you can take ten and get an Aid Another, you might manage a DC 30.

I'm not sure you could take ten on a check to perform a gymnastic stunt, though. I'd say if they reliably succeed, it's more likely to be around DC 20

brian c
2007-05-10, 03:19 PM
DC 30 is for ridiculous, superhuman feats. Climbing a slippery, smooth surface with some handholds (but no footholds) is DC 30, squeezing through a space that is narrower than your shoulders is DC 30, a really, really tough Knowledge question is DC 30, basically answering something that no one else has ever been able to figure out. Jumping 30 feet is a DC 30 jump check, the world record is slightly less than that.

DC 25 is for things that "normal" people can do, but generally require a lot of training. I'd say any gymnastics movement that an actual real-life person has ever done is no higher than DC 28.

With the "5th level is the best real person" model, a 5th level gymnast, the best in the world, would have 18 strength, 18 dexterity, skill focus (tumbling), skill focus(balance), agile, and 8 ranks in tumble, balance, jump. Their total bonus is around +15-17, but keep in mind this person has ridiculous ability scores also. +15 means you can do a DC 30 trick about 25% of the time, so it wouldn't really be part of your show.

2007-05-10, 03:23 PM
I dont think it's that high a DC really.

If I'm strong enough to support your body weight and that of your little sister over my head and you're strong enough to hold the small girl; her Balance DC is set by the width of the body part she balances on, just as yours is which part of me you Balance on. Not obscured nor thanks to chalk slippery surfaces. Strength seems to be the main factor.

Still, nice video.

2007-05-10, 11:01 PM
Skill Focus: Balance/Jump/Tumble.

Definitely in the mid-20s. There is a bit of Strength check involved for the person below to succeed on the Aid Another check though.

2007-05-11, 10:36 AM
Dunno about the DC, but that was a Amazing video

2007-05-11, 11:47 AM
Very impressive! I especially liked the comment by The ReichofNess. What's the betting that's a slobby teen who's never lifted anything more than a can of Mountain Dew above his waist. Any one of those athletes could snap him in two, including the smallest of the women :smallbiggrin:.

As for the DC's, no idea, but the Exemplar PrC from Complete adventurer would do stuff like that, just for laughs.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-11, 11:54 AM
I once saw a guy to a backflip on a tight rope... I think that would be a DC 30. He actually failed a couple times before he nailed it (he cought the tight rope with his hands and climbed up to try again).

Edit: Cirque du Soleil rules.