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Zaydos
2015-09-01, 04:19 PM
So I feel like expanding upon something I've already made, and I am creatively bankrupt at the moment, and possibly a drama queen don't know what to expand upon, so I've decided to let you tell me.

I will be taking votes in this thread as to what to expand upon from the following list. On the 29th if anything has gotten votes from at least 3 people I will work on expanding the thing with the most votes. Feel free to vote for up to 3 things, and feel free to tell me what you'd like to see or suggest new things (though no promises there). Each account is allowed up to 3 votes and may not vote for the same thing more than once, regardless of any multiple personalities they may possess. In addition you may select one thing you vote for to vote for a second time but to do so you must tell me which of the races, spoilered below, you would most like to see a 20 level racial paragon style class for. There is no guarantee that I will make any of these or if I do the one that wins but it will be good to know.


Dwarf
Elf
Gnome
Half-Elf
Changeling
Elan
Raptoran
Goliath
Tiefling
Hobgoblin
Your ideas are stupid and you're stupid.


Any other responses will be ignored, unless they are a question.


Expanded Dragonblood: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192406-Expanded-Dragonblood) Adding at least 3 new dragonblood subraces.
Courtier: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?304975-Courtier-%28Base-Class-PEACH%29) At least 2 new alternate magic progressions.
Werewolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?309502-Listen-to-their-music-the-children-of-the-night-%28Werewolf-as-a-base-class%29): Either 4+ wolf powers or maybe finish the Obyrith/Far Spawn variant (no promises on the latter).
Jinnblood: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312765-Jinnblood-%28Base-Class-Contest-XIX-winner-PEACH%29) New invocations. If someone points me to an 8th genie type maybe a new path.
Vestige Priest: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329655-3-5-Vestige-Priest-%28Soulbinding-Base-Class-PEACH%29) Actually cover some of the online vestiges finally.
Intoxicanter: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350465-Intoxicanter-%28Base-Class-Contest-XXI-winner%29) A new concoction gained via a feat? I don't know.
Doomsayer: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368342-Doomsayer-%283-5-Base-Class%29) New invocations of course.
Princess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414734-Princess-%28Base-Class-Challenge-Winner%29): Umm some new songs.
Avengers as Vestiges: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?308176-Avengers-Assemble-within-me-%286-new-vestiges%29) More Marvel vestiges.
Pacts of Possession: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?330018-Pacts-of-Fiendish-Possession-Or-Soulbinding-a-Fiend) Some more fiends as vestiges.
Beast Tamer: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?226621-Beast-Tamer-%283-5-Base-Class-PEACH%29) More totem feats, because apparently Dinosaurs are needed (and maybe owls).
Mana Magic System (technically the link is to the Simic Biomancer because that is the one thing atm which uses the system): (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402250-Simic-Biomancer-%28M-tG-based-PEACH%29-SHOULD-I-MAKE-MORE-LIKE-THIS) Exotic spells probably Red.
Cytoplasmic Grafts (link is Simic Initiate but also applies to Simic Biomancer): (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402257-Simic-Initiate-%28M-tG-based-Graft-Fighter-PEACH%29) New grafts for use with Simic Initiator and potentially Simic Initiate.
Jedi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329227-Jedi-%283-5-Base-Class-Star-Wars%29): Feats for Light or Dark Side force powers include suggestions with votes please.
Fiendpact Medium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?399050-Fiendpact-Medium-%283-5-class-sell-your-soul-now!%29): New fiends to make pacts with (suggest a type please).
New Devotion Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?196229-New-Devotion-Feats): More new devotion/domain feats.
Vile Feats: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415346-Some-new-vile-feats-%28PEACH%29) More new vile feats.
Exalted Feats: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415325-Some-new-Exalted-Feats-%28PEACH%29) More new exalted feats.

LoyalPaladin
2015-09-01, 04:24 PM
Um... LoyalPaladin, Palladian, and the Most Loyal Paladin all place votes on Incarnation. That makes three!

Zaydos
2015-09-01, 04:29 PM
Um... LoyalPaladin, Palladian, and the Most Loyal Paladin all place votes on Incarnation. That makes three!

Clarified that regardless of split personalities you may only vote for any given thing once.

LoyalPaladin
2015-09-01, 04:31 PM
Dangit. Well, then I vote Incarnation, Princess, and Freelancer.

AuraTwilight
2015-09-01, 04:37 PM
Dragonblood, Incarnation, Courtier.

ImperatorV
2015-09-01, 04:38 PM
Beast Tamer (DINOSAURS), Devotion feats (Slime domain?), and Incarnation would be my picks.

Adam1949
2015-09-01, 04:42 PM
Werewolf, Jinnblood, and Incarnation!

nonsi
2015-09-01, 04:51 PM
.
Jedi.

I wonder if anyone would ever get those done right.

Amechra
2015-09-01, 05:14 PM
Beast Tamer (Bone-Crushing Tardigrades), Fiends of Possession, and Vile Feats.

qazzquimby
2015-09-01, 05:22 PM
Mana Magic System.

Zaydos
2015-09-01, 07:04 PM
Beast Tamer (Bone-Crushing Tardigrades), Fiends of Possession, and Vile Feats.

I must ask if you have stats for these available because water bears are awesome.

Amechra
2015-09-01, 08:11 PM
Sadly, I don't have them on hand.

One can dream, though, one can dream.

Ziegander
2015-09-01, 08:49 PM
Your Princess (especially Warrior Princess) is so close to what I always actually wanted Paladins to be... keep working on it!

ben-zayb
2015-09-01, 11:09 PM
Since Pact Magic is one of the least homebrew-supported subsystem, I'd like to see more Avengers and Fiends as (pseudo-)vestiges.

nikkoli
2015-09-01, 11:44 PM
Freelancer, Vile feats, some more free lancer, more dragon blood, and a last bit more of freelancer, because freelancer.

Zaydos
2015-09-02, 01:01 AM
Incarnation 4
Freelancer 2
Princess 2
Courtier 1
Expanded Dragonblood 2
Beast Tamer 2
Devotion Feats 1
Werewolf 1
Jinnblood 1
Jedi 1
Fiends of Possession 2
Vile Feats 2
Mana Magic 1
Avengers as Vestiges 1

Tallied votes because that's just what you do eventually. Incarnation seems to be in the lead.

dragonjek
2015-09-02, 10:11 AM
Incarnation, because who doesn't want to play a god?

Beast Tamer, because of F$%&*^$ course you need dinosaurs!

Werewolf; however, only if you intend to do Far Realm/Obyrith variant (are you going to look at the WoD Black Spiral Dancers for inspiration or something? Just a quick question). If you aren't, then the Vestige Priest.

LoyalPaladin
2015-09-02, 11:55 AM
Incarnation seems to be in the lead.
As it very well should be!

necroon
2015-09-02, 05:46 PM
I have spoken with my alternate personalities and we have agreed on the following:
Pacts of Possession
Exalted Feats
Vile Feats

Zaydos
2015-09-02, 05:58 PM
I'd say whether you voted for Incarnation or not if there's any domain you'd like to see a transcendency for (or possibly a feat in relation to) just let me know in DarkSlateGrey preferably so I know it's not a vote, same holds true of any of the other things though preferably primarily for those that get above 3 votes.


Incarnation, because who doesn't want to play a god?

Beast Tamer, because of F$%&*^$ course you need dinosaurs!

Werewolf; however, only if you intend to do Far Realm/Obyrith variant (are you going to look at the WoD Black Spiral Dancers for inspiration or something? Just a quick question). If you aren't, then the Vestige Priest.

I hadn't thought about looking at Black Spiral Dancers since saw them more as a true werewolf thing, instead of what while built off of the same mechanics is ultimately a Lovecraft Mythos thing (I like being the horror from beyond reality, being a deep one hybrid sounds awesome). I don't really remember them well (except they were nasty in the RAGE tcg, can force you to become one by breaking your mind by making you walk the Black Spiral, and that they were not the only evil werewolf pack available in the tcg but were the coolest ones). The big thing that will actually decide whether it ends up Obyrith or more wolf powers is if I sit down to do it and just can't think of any obyrith things and bang my head on a wall for a while. Honestly, though, because of how much range is in there I see obyrith as more likely than not unless a lot of people really asked for something like "cat wolf powers" "I wanna be Beorn!" or the like.


As it very well should be!

Well at the minimum it's what was expected since it or tall tale tend to be my most popular creations.

Incarnation 5
Freelancer 2
Princess 2
Courtier 1
Expanded Dragonblood 2
Beast Tamer 3
Devotion Feats 1
Werewolf 2
Jinnblood 1
Jedi 1
Fiends of Possession 3
Vile Feats 3
Mana Magic 1
Avengers as Vestiges 1
Exalted Feats 1

mantia
2015-09-02, 06:45 PM
Cat wolf sounds really interesting actually. Otherwise mana magic and the other stuff connected to Simic.

Vauron
2015-09-02, 10:23 PM
Incarnation, Vestige Priest, and the Mana Magic System.

LoyalPaladin
2015-09-03, 11:48 AM
I have the need to play an aspect of Sune (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sune) in the (not so near) future. I guess that means I need:
Charm
Pleasure
Protection

I think none of those have been done, right?

Zaydos
2015-09-03, 07:13 PM
Cat wolf sounds really interesting actually. Otherwise mana magic and the other stuff connected to Simic.

To clarify "cat wolf powers" meant feline/cat themed wolf powers, stuff for facilitating werecats of various sorts (unless corrected counting that as one of each of the three simic options).


I have the need to play an aspect of Sune (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sune) in the (not so near) future. I guess that means I need:
Charm
Pleasure
Protection

I think none of those have been done, right?

Protection has been done, it's somewhat lack luster (gives you a second DR that doesn't stack with your normal DR but is Cha/- and shares it with nearby allies) did just up its range so nearby is now over 100-ft but it's not as flashy as some.


Incarnation 6
Freelancer 2
Princess 2
Courtier 1
Expanded Dragonblood 2
Beast Tamer 3
Devotion Feats 1
Werewolf 2
Jinnblood 1
Jedi 1
Fiends of Possession 3
Vile Feats 3
Mana Magic 3
Avengers as Vestiges 1
Exalted Feats 1
Grafts 1
Vestige Priest 1
Mana Discipline 1
[/QUOTE]

VoodooPaladin
2015-09-03, 09:56 PM
Mana Magic System!
Cytoplasmic Grafts!
Freelancer Jobs!

I've no multiple personalities to bring, I'm afraid. I've got enough procrastination for three people: does that count?

Xuldarinar
2015-09-04, 09:46 AM
Im gonna have to say:

Vestige Priest (I'd love to see what you'd do with Zceryll)
Vile Feats
Werewolf (Specifically the far-spawn variant)

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-05, 07:50 AM
Mana magic, incarnation, vile feats

SkipSandwich
2015-09-05, 03:35 PM
I vote for Werewolf, Princess and Courtier

Specifically I'd like to see more of the Dhampier/Vampire style abilities or even a full alternate class progression like the Far Spawn varient. The general chassis gives the feel of Buffy The Vampire style vampirism, where vamps walk around mostly normal and only a little bit stronger then humans, and then they "Fang Out" and become visibly beastlike with full supernatural strength.

Courtier i'd like to see variants with alternate casting/manifesting systems, and I would honestly love to see a Magical Girl - style PrC for the Princess.

Zaydos
2015-09-05, 05:18 PM
Mana Magic System!
Cytoplasmic Grafts!
Freelancer Jobs!

I've no multiple personalities to bring, I'm afraid. I've got enough procrastination for three people: does that count?

Sure thing; you don't need multiple personalities to vote three times, though if you have them I'd say it's only fair to divvy up the votes.


I vote for Werewolf, Princess and Courtier

Specifically I'd like to see more of the Dhampier/Vampire style abilities or even a full alternate class progression like the Far Spawn varient. The general chassis gives the feel of Buffy The Vampire style vampirism, where vamps walk around mostly normal and only a little bit stronger then humans, and then they "Fang Out" and become visibly beastlike with full supernatural strength.

Courtier i'd like to see variants with alternate casting/manifesting systems, and I would honestly love to see a Magical Girl - style PrC for the Princess.

No promises on a full PrC, though was thinking that Princess might could use a variant for Magical Girl earlier. It'll depend upon how much creativity I can force once this has given me the motivation. Would probably require research as well since my familiarity with Magical Girls is very very limited (Sailor Moon was that show my older sister and best friend watched occasionally usually while I was asleep) to season 1 of Card Captors (the heavily edited dub) and Puella Magica Madoka which umm... isn't the best foundation to actually understand the genre (I'd say as far as making a D&D class is concerned Sailor Moon is probably a requisite).

As for the Dhampier/Vampire I might make more wolf powers in that vein if I can't get up the inspiration for finishing the far spawn variant, but very unlikely to do a full fledged variant since at that point I could probably finish the Far Spawn one easier (more thematic breadth gives me more leeway in making abilities... although bring in Dresden Verse vamps especially Red/White Courts* and you get some more stuff to play around with... then you have to figure out how vampire weaknesses factor in since they are a major part of the mythos... I have thought about doing this before). It does give a certain Buffy style feel I will admit, even though I'd not say Buffy was something I ever thought about when working on the class it had to be somewhere in the back of my head because I did think about it being able to serve as a spring board for a vampire class which vamps out so at the very least that show (and Angel) has influenced my dictum when it comes to vampires.

Incarnation 7
Freelancer 3
Princess 3
Courtier 2
Expanded Dragonblood 2
Beast Tamer 3
Devotion Feats 1
Werewolf 4
Jinnblood 1
Jedi 1
Fiends of Possession 3
Vile Feats 5
Mana Magic 5
Avengers as Vestiges 1
Exalted Feats 1
Grafts 2
Vestige Priest 2
Mana Discipline 1


And it looks like Incarnation has two main challengers at this point.

SkipSandwich
2015-09-05, 05:54 PM
No promises on a full PrC, though was thinking that Princess might could use a variant for Magical Girl earlier. It'll depend upon how much creativity I can force once this has given me the motivation. Would probably require research as well since my familiarity with Magical Girls is very very limited (Sailor Moon was that show my older sister and best friend watched occasionally usually while I was asleep) to season 1 of Card Captors (the heavily edited dub) and Puella Magica Madoka which umm... isn't the best foundation to actually understand the genre (I'd say as far as making a D&D class is concerned Sailor Moon is probably a requisite).

As for the Dhampier/Vampire I might make more wolf powers in that vein if I can't get up the inspiration for finishing the far spawn variant, but very unlikely to do a full fledged variant since at that point I could probably finish the Far Spawn one easier (more thematic breadth gives me more leeway in making abilities... although bring in Dresden Verse vamps especially Red/White Courts* and you get some more stuff to play around with... then you have to figure out how vampire weaknesses factor in since they are a major part of the mythos... I have thought about doing this before). It does give a certain Buffy style feel I will admit, even though I'd not say Buffy was something I ever thought about when working on the class it had to be somewhere in the back of my head because I did think about it being able to serve as a spring board for a vampire class which vamps out so at the very least that show (and Angel) has influenced my dictum when it comes to vampires.


Fair enough, I wouldn't want to ask for too much afterall. But if you do later decide to revist the Magical Girl Princess PrC later, I would reccomend Revolutionary Girl Utena as a research source, since in addition to being relatively short (3 seasons plus one movie that more-or-less acts as a series synopsis), Utena is a rare example of what a Warrior Princess Magical Girl might look like in practice (no flashy magic, just style and martial skill motivated by friendship and love).

It's also just a really good series in general that goes out of its way to really dig into and deconstruct all the classic coming-of-age, love and relationship tropes you'd expect in a series like this.

dragonjek
2015-09-06, 11:30 AM
Artifice or Dragon
Deathless or Mentalism
Fey or Pact

And if you'll let us throw more demands out at you (seeing as how your endless stream of new creations doesn't put enough stress on your time as is), Runes, Watery Death, Blackwater--

Actually, you know what? Just do the odder domains. Some of them are just strange, and that's amazing (because seriously, real life has some gods of weird things).

Maybe you could create an alternate class feature for an Incarnation from an animistic pantheon? Where each river and tree and mountain and household (and sometimes individual person) has its own minor god? Although we don't think of them as gods now, dryads from Greek mythology were minor deities and a lot of small places had their own small gods. Then you've got kami from Japanese mythology and the host of animal spirits from various Native American faiths... compared to the D&D standard of "gods" they're exceedingly limited in scope, but they're still divine.

Zaydos
2015-09-06, 12:27 PM
The real thing is figuring out how they would be different for an animistic pantheon. My typical way of statting out minor animistic deities has been to give them Xd8 Outsider hit dice, a level cap to which they may grant clerical spells (usually ~HD or HD - 1), cleric casting either of their level cap or 1/2 their hit dice (this is where I got Bestow Divine Power for Incarnations), 1-5 domains (usually 3 or less but if they are particularly important or have a portfolio that supports it), slas from their domains (usually 1 or 2/day) with a level cap based upon what CR I want them to be, and usually some important semi-plot power related to their domains. Oh and DR 0 or parceled out partial traits. Ultimately the problem is that there's no official rules for animistic gods so each DM is going to have their own mess of them (see above) and any acf for it is going to be dependent upon that; for my take on animistic deities Incarnation works just fine, except for having so many domains, largely because I made incarnation in part by doing a mix of cribbing and formalizing how I did animistic gods (and occasionally divine proxies when I wanted them to be a more straight incarnation of deific power writ small than an "aspect" which ultimately always feels like a beat-stick and a warrior first and foremost) already.

The best I can think of at the moment is some sort of 10 level PrC that gets only 2 domains or something and that is... not wholly satisfying... although I still kind of want to make it >.>

Also at the moment the grand total of my homebrew projects is... this thread and forgetting to tally votes in the Ancillary contest. Well ok I re-posted Gnostic from the Base Class Challenge finally and I organized Whisper into a readable format and posted it with half finished talents, but one of those took... maybe an hour? The other 5 minutes because I'd done the work on both already and just had them sitting waiting for the post.

As for the domains Deathless is ECS and Blackwater is Storm. The official Fey is BoED correct? And I'd be willing to guess Watery Death is Stormwrack as well. I am tempted to go full Dagon for Blackwater but should really double check it for fluff/crunch reasons before forming any real ideas (best not to form a poorly conceived idea in the first place as then I keep going back to it).

dragonjek
2015-09-06, 09:30 PM
As for the domains Deathless is ECS and Blackwater is Storm. The official Fey is BoED correct? And I'd be willing to guess Watery Death is Stormwrack as well. I am tempted to go full Dagon for Blackwater but should really double check it for fluff/crunch reasons before forming any real ideas (best not to form a poorly conceived idea in the first place as then I keep going back to it).
The Watery Death domain is actually from Underdark. The official Fey is BoED, but it also appeared in PGtF.
And designing Blackwater after Dagon is a good idea, in my opinion. The domain is chock-full of horrifying tentacles.

Zaydos
2015-09-07, 11:41 AM
Well I know I shouldn't say this knowing the perversity of the internet but assuming that Incarnation is still in the lead when I wake up tomorrow or possibly even before going to bed tonight (it'll be the 8th by that point) I'll close the voting then because I ought to be able to whip up stuff for the Incarnation in about an hour with the preplanning I've done now and there's been a lot of votes. If I do that voting will re-open immediately without Incarnation as an option because it's no fun for it to win twice in a row.

If it's tied up by that point of course voting won't be closed, and if something else is in the lead it probably won't close immediately because I... well I'm liable to close this by making the thing and posting it so I'll have to figure out another thing and make it (I might have already made some domain transcendencies and just need to format them :smallredface:).

Regardless don't expect all of the domains Dragonjek posted to get made. Some of them I just haven't had ideas jump out at me for and others I am just plain stumped on.

Either way if you enjoyed this you ought to check back on the 9th or 10th.

Amechra
2015-09-07, 06:00 PM
A gift:

Planar Incarnation
Levels: 1, 16, 20
Replaces: 2 Domains, The Divine Transcendencies gained at 16th and 20th levels.
Effects: Some gods are more like Genius Loci bound to one of the outer planes than someone who receives worship for some concept or another.

At first level, the Incarnation selects a single Planar DomainsSpC rather than the two domains they would normally gain.

At sixteenth level, the Incarnation's home plane changes to the Plane whose Planar Domain they possess. In addition, they gain the ability to use Plane Shift between the Prime Material and their home plane as a Spell-like Ability, treating it as a 5th level spell that belongs to one of their Domains.

At twentieth level, the Incarnation may spend one of their 5th level Spell-like Abilities to precipitate a Minor Planar BreachPlH. If they send a 7th level Spell-like Ability, it precipitates a Severe Breach, while a 9th level Spell-like Ability precipitates a Complete Breach. Unlike a completely random breach, the properties of the Breach are always drawn from the Incarnation's home plane. Otherwise, this ability functions as Precipitate BreachPlH.


And another!

Wolf Power

Omega - Heart-Eating Monster (Ex): Whenever a Werewolf eats a dead humanoid, they gain the ability to take that creature's appearance at-will for a number of days equal to their Charisma modifier. Treat this as Disguise Self, except that it is an actual physical transformation rather than an illusion, it takes the same action as their Hybrid Form class feature, and the changed form lasts indefinitely. You may only one such alternate form at a time.

Zaydos
2015-09-08, 10:53 AM
And the final result is:

Incarnation has been expanded with

Planar Domains: An Incarnation may select a Planar Domain even if it does not match their alignment. This Planar Domain counts as both of their 1st level domains. Each Planar Domain has 2 Domain Transcendencies each of which is selected separately.

Perfection Irreducible (Ex): The form of a god is hard to reduce, and is not as easily crippled as most mortal bodies. Beginning at 6th level an Incarnation is immune to ability damage and ability drain, except when it comes as a cost of activating an ability that they willingly activate.

In addition an Incarnation does not age, gaining neither benefits nor penalties and never dies of old age unless they choose to allow it.

If you have the Pleasure domain its now redundant domain power is replaced with an aura which grants allies (including yourself) within 15-ft a +4 bonus on saves versus fear and despair.

Fiend Lord ACF and Planar Domains: A character with the Fiend Lord ACF may select the planar domain that corresponds with their outsider subtype. If they do so they do not gain a domain at 5th level and do not gain Invocations until 5th level, gaining the Planar Domain at 1st level.

If a domain transcendency grants you bonus a Item Creation feat or feats, or you possess a domain transcendency for a domain which grants you bonus Item Creation feat or feats, you may emulate any Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard spell of level 8 or lower for the purposes of making magic items with that feat. If you are at least 20th level (character level) you may emulate 9th level spells from these lists. If you have the Air, Earth, Fire, Metal, or Water Domain you may replicate Wu Jen and Shugenja spells of the corresponding element, if you have the Plant Domain you may replicate Wu Jen spells of the Wood element. If you have the Song domain you may replicate Bard spells. You do not need the corresponding transcendency to gain these list expansions.

And the actual meat of the update:

Army: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?166746-Domains-of-Conquest) Two times per day when you use a 6th level or lower Incarnation spell-like ability that affects a single target and has a range greater than touch you may have it chain. It affects the initial target normally and then affects a number of secondary targets equal to your Incarnation level. The save DC (if any) for these secondary targets is reduced by 2. You may use this ability on a 1st level Incarnation spell-like ability without expending a use as long as you have at least 1 use remaining.

Artifice: Each day when you regain your domain spell-like abilities select one Item Creation feat. You gain the benefits of that feat for the day. You do not need to meet the prerequisites of the selected feat unless it is an epic feat.

Blackwater: You gain the ability to breathe water as easily as air (or air as easily as water) and a swim speed equal to your land speed. Any other creature standing in water or submerged in it within 360-ft (you must have line of effect but the water surface does not block line of effect ofr this ability) of you suffers 1 negative level per round. You, your worshipers, and undead creatures instead gain 5 temporary hit points each round (these temp hp last 1 hour but do not stack with themselves).

Charm: When you activate your Granted Power you may choose either to gain a Charming Appearance or to have it apply to all of your worshipers as well as yourself and allies within 120 ft. If you choose the Charming Appearance for as long as the ability is active any creature which gazes upon you must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Incarnation level + Cha modifier) or be charmed for 1 hour; a creature which save is immune to that use of your Charm domain ability.

In addition Charm and Dominate effects you create ignore the protection provided by Protection from Evil and similar effects (this has no effect on direct immunity to compulsion or mind-affecting effects).

Conquest: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?166746-Domains-of-Conquest) Your BAB improves to full. In addition whenever you down an enemy with a melee attack you may move up to your speed; if you have the Cleave and/or Great Cleave feat(s) you may make this movement before making the bonus attack from that feat. If you also have the War domain transcendence you gain +3 to your DR.

Deathless: You gain the Deathles type and all its features but retain your regular hit dice and Constitution score although gaining immunities as if you had a non-ability for Constitution. You are immune to Turn/Rebuke Undead as well as the Command Deathless, and Control Deathless spells. In addition you gain a +4 to your effective cleric level for the purposes of Turn Undead and deathless within 60-ft of you are immune to Turn/Rebuke Undead other than yours.

Dragon: You gain functional wings (granting you an Ex fly speed equal to your speed with Average maneuverability), you gain 2 claws (dealing 1d6 if medium) and a bite (dealing 1d8 if medium). You gain the Wrathful Breath feat as a bonus feat (or another Wrath feat if you already have it), and 1/day may release your breath in a 300-ft cone or 1000-ft line.

Fey: Cold Iron is necessary to overcome your DR in addition to whatever normally would be required. You gain Wild Empathy as a druid of your Incarnation level, and Fey creatures must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Incarnation level + Charisma modifier) to attack you and cannot touch you.

Mentalism: Three times per day you may do one the following as an immediate action: allow a creature (or intelligent magic item) within 360 ft to make a Will save in place of a Fort or Ref save, or cause a creature (or intelligent magic item) within 360 ft to automatically pass a Will save and suffer no effect as if it were Will no instead of Will halves or Will partial. All three uses do not have to be the same one of the two abilities.

Oracle: You gain the benefits of a continual Foresight spell. In addition you may use your Augury spell-like ability as a swift action, and your Divination spell-like ability as a standard action.

Pact: You may create binding pacts. As a standard action you can seal a pact made by 2 creatures in your presence. They must agree to the pact after the binding is initiated and can sense the effects of the binding intuitively and the punishment for breaking it. A creature which is compelled to accept the pact through magical means is exempt from it. A pact must outline a duty for each of the two sides, and if either side breaks their end of the agreement they suffer the effects of a Greater Bestow Curse decided upon when the pact was made; alternatively you may have breaking the pact result in death or death without the chance for resurrection, in this case the punishment is a death effect. This curse cannot be removed except by the direct act of a deity with 1 or more divine ranks or by joint agreement between you and the wronged party (magical compulsion cannot force this agreement). The punishment for both sides must be approximately equal and meaningful to both sides, and if a side intentionally forces or tricks the other side into breaking the pact then they suffer the punishment as opposed to the side that actually broke the pact (this is intuitively understood by both sides). A kolyrut inevitables will be assigned to enforce the broken pact, this is not actually a part of this ability but due to the nature of inevitables.

In addition you gain a +4 bonus to Appraise, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks as long as you have told no lies within the last minute.

Pleasure: Allies within 60-ft of you may gain morale bonuses even if immune to mind-affecting effects, even from specifically mind-affecting sources. In addition allies within this range (including youself) gain a +3 morale bonus to saving throws.

Rune: You may read and write in any language and may read magic continuously. You automatically recognize any magical runes, symbols, or glyphs that you see, their purpose, and their CL (if any). Your looking upon and/or reading runes, symbols, and glyphs does not trigger them unless you wish it. You may use any scroll regardless of its caster level or what spell list the spell is from. 1/day when a scroll is used within 60-ft of you you may, as an immediate action or as a free action if reading the scroll yourself, create a rune of power. This rune appears somewhere on your body and functions as a copy of that spell from the scroll which only you can use. If the spell has an XP cost you must pay it.

Spell: Select one sorcerer/wizard spell of each level 8 or lower. You may use each of these spells as a spell-like ability 1/day, but you must pay any XP cost of these spells and provide any material component which costs more than 500 GP. Each day you may change 1 chosen spell with 1 hour of meditation. You may use a higher level spell-like ability granted by this transcendency to activate a lower level one.

Teleportation: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?418301-So-I-heard-you-like-Teleportation-%28Feats-Domain-and-PrC%29) When you cast a (teleportation) spell which affects a fixed number of targets greater than 1 (such as teleport or plane shift but not teleportation circle or a spell which teleports all creatures within an area) you may transport twice the normal number of targets. If the spell would transpose the target you select two pairs of target and transpose each set separately. In addition 1/day you may transport up to 1 creature per incarnation level, all of which must be within your line of sight, and transport them to any where regardless of local conditions on either side; a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 incarnation level + Cha modifier) can resist this transportation.

Watery Death: You gain the ability to breathe water as easily as air (or air as easily as water) and a swim speed equal to your land speed. In addition your deific wrath becomes a drowning wrath. When you damage a creature with deific wrath they must make a Fort save or be limited to 1 action (standard, move, or swift) next round. If they failed the first save they must then make another Fort save at the end of their next turn or be knocked out, and if they failed that save they must then make another Fort save at the end of their next turn or be killed. Creatures which do not breathe or which can breathe water are immune to this effect. In addition your deific wrath recharges 1 round faster (to a minimum of 1 use per 2 rounds).


Planar Domains You can thank Amechra for these.

Abyss:
Transcendency 1: Once per day as a swift action you may assume the form of a Balor. In this form you lose your own racial abilities, and the benefits of Godly Body, but gain a +24 racial bonus to Strength, +14 racial bonus to Dexterity, +20 racial bonus to Constituon, a +19 to natural armor, DR 15/cold iron and good, darkvision 60 ft., flaming body, immunity to electricity, fire, and poison, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, spell resistance 28, telepathy 100 ft., true seeing, 40 ft base speed, 90 ft base fly speed (good), +8 racial bonus to Listen and Spot. You may remain in Balor form for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. Your gear merges into your form during this effect unless it is a magic item which can still be worn (and which resizes)

Transcendency 2: Within 360 ft of you the plane becomes increasingly Chaotic and Evil. If the plane has the Good or Law Aligned traits they are reduced one step (Major becomes Minor, Minor is removed), if it does not have one of those traits it instead gains the Evil or Chaos Aligned trait or have its existing Evil or Chaos aligned trait increased in strength. This ability checks each alignment axis separately (i.e. on Baator it would reduce its Lawful alignment and increase its Evil alignment to make it Major Evil Aligned, on Mechanus it would decrease Law and grant Evil to make it Minor Law and Minor Evil aligned, and on Elysium it would grant Chaos and reduce Good for Minor Chaotic aligned). In addition once per day you may invoke hell on earth causing (your choice of) a severe of complete breach between the plane you are on and the Abyss.

Arborea:
Transcendency 1: You gain the benefits of Freedom of Movement continuously.

Transcendency 2: You are able to assume the form of a globe of light. In this form your fly speed doubles (or you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed), your flight maneuverability becomes perfect, you become incorporeal, your deflection bonus to AC from Godly Flesh doubles, and you gain the ability o fire light beams as a ranged touch attack which deals 1d8 damage per two Incarnation levels. In this form you cannot perform somatic components, manipulate objects, or use natural weapons. You are a ball of glowing energy.

Baator:
Transcendency 1: You gain the ability to summon a fiendish servitor. This fiendish servitor is based upon your Incarnation level. If your fiendish servitor dies you must wait 1 month before you can reofrm it with an hour long ritual. If it is somehow completely annihilated you must travel to Baator and stand by the shores of the River Styx on Avernus for 1 day to forge a new servitor from the hellish waters and landscape. Your fiendish servitor is completely loyal to you, formed as it is from the hellish landscape and your will.

LevelBonus Hit DiceNatural ArmorSpecial16-17+0-Share Spells and Spell-like Abilities
18-19+2+2Major Domo
20+4+4Relay

Bonus Hit Dice: Your fiendish servitor gains the listed bonus (outsider) hit dice. They gain +2 BAB, +1 to all saves, and 16 + 2 x Int skill points, as well as feats as normal for gaining additional racial hit dice, but they do not increase in size.

Natural Armor: Your fiendish servitor gains the listed increase to their natural armor.

Share Spells and Spell-like Abilities: You may share spells and spell-like abilities with your fiendish servitor. If you cast a spell (or use a spell-like ability) which targets yourself you may also have it affect your fiendish servitor as long as they remain within 5 ft of you, in addition you may cast spells with the range of Self on your servitor with a touch.

Major Domo (Ex): Your fiendish servitor gains a +3 to skill checks and may use all skills untrained.

Relay (Su): You may communicate telepathically with your fiendish servitor as long as it is on the same plane as you. In addition you may use your fiendish servitor as the origin point of any spell-like ability you use. To do so it must spend a standard action or whatever type of action the spell-like ability requires whichever is quicker, and you must use the spell-like ability normally. You may also use this to cast self range spells on your fiendish servitor at any distance. You may cast a touch spell this way in which case your servitor holds the touch spell and may deliver it.

You may select a Lemure, imp, nupperibo, legion devil, spined devil, abishai (any color), bearded devil, chain devil, steel devil, amnizu, hellcat, pain devil, erinyes, orthon, or bone devil to be your Fiendish Servitor. If you are level 18 or higher you may select an assassin devil, or barbed devil in which case you treat your Incarnation level as 2 lower for the purposes of your Fiendish Servitor. If you are 20th level you may select a gelugon or malebranche in which case you treat your Incarnation level as 4 lower for the purposes of your Fiendish Servitor. You may promote your fiendish servitor to a new form by spending 1 hour in meditation for each day for a week.

Transcendence 2: You gain the ability to rebuke/command outsiders with the Baatezu subtype as an evil cleric rebukes undead, 3 plus Charisma modifier times per day. This ability turns/destroys creatures with the tanar'ri, obyrith, and loumura subtypes like a good cleric turns undead. These creatures gain "turn resistance" equal to 1/3rd their Charisma modifier if positive, and any outsider with divine ranks is immune. In addition when you summon one or more creatures with the Baatezu subtype with a Summon Monster spell-like ability you summon an additional creature of the same type.

Celestia Domain:
Transcendence 1: You continuously radiate an aura of menace as described in the Celestia domain power.

Transcendence 2: Within 360 ft of you the plane becomes increasingly Lawful and Good. If the plane has the Evil or Chaotic Aligned traits they are reduced one step (Major becomes Minor, Minor is removed), if it does not have one of those traits it instead gains the Good or Law Aligned trait or have its existing Good or Law aligned trait increased in strength. This ability checks each alignment axis separately (i.e. on Baator it would reduce its Evil alignment and increase its Lawful alignment to make it Major Law Aligned, on Mechanus it would grant Good to make it Major Law and Minor Good aligned, and on Elysium it would grant Law for Minor Law and Major Good aligned). In addition Evil creatures within this area suffer a -4 penalty to saves versus fear and have their alignment auras made visible to all creatures as if with a detect evil spell except there is never a penalty for viewing an Overwhelming aura.

And bonus, Wrath feats:

Avenging Wrath [Wrath]
Your deific wrath is particularly against those which have harmed your allies.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one of Community, Family, or Wrath (BoED version) Domain.
Benefit: Your Deific Wrath deals +1 damage/die to creatures which have dealt damage to one of your allies within the last round.

Dispelling Wrath [Wrath]
Your deific wrath can strip the effects of magic from a target.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one of the Magic, Rune, or Spell domains, Character level 6+.
Benefit: When you deal damage to a creature with your Deific Wrath you may also attempt to dispel spell effects on them as if with an area dispel magic (CL = incarnation level) or, if your character level is at least 11, greater dispel magic.

Easy Domain Power
You are able to use the power of a single domain more easily.
Prerequisites: Incarnation level 1+.
Benefit: Select one domain you possess which has an ability with limited uses per day. You may use the selected domain ability an extra time per day.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times each time you must select a different applicable domain.

Illusory Wrath [Wrath]
You are able to apply the effects of your displeasure without directly harming your foes.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one of Fey, Illusion, Suffering, or Trickery domains.
Benefits: You may have your Deific Wrath deal no damage, instead simply applying any additional effects which would be applied to targets that were damaged. If you do so your deific wrath recharges 1 round faster than normal (to a minimum of 1 round); if you use this ability two rounds in a row this recharge time reduction does not apply the second time (so r1 fake wrath, r2 fake wrath, r3 wait, r4 fake wrath is as quick as it can get you).

Planar Deity: (Another you can thank Amechra for)
You are able to transport yourself and others between the plane of your physical incarnation and the plane that resonates with your soul.
Prerequisites: Incarnation level 9+.
Benefits: When you take this feat select one plane which either matches your alignment on both axes. If you have an alignment domain which does not match your alignment treat your alignment on that axis as that of your domain. If you have a planar domain you instead simply treat that plane as your selected plane. If you have an elemental domain (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) you may select the corresponding Elemental Plane instead. You may expend a 5th level spell-like ability granted to you as an Incarnation to use Plane Shift to that plane or to your native plane. You may expend a 9th level spell-like ability granted to you as an Incarnation to use Gate to create a portal to that plane or your native plane, this Gate cannot be used to call creatures.

Shunting Wrath [Wrath]
Your wrath is capable of transporting foes short distances.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one of Summoning, Teleportation, or Travel domains.
Benefit: When a creature takes damage from your deific wrath they must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier) or be teleported up to 20 ft to a square of your choice. This square must be able to sustain their weight and be empty.

Smith's Wrath [Wrath]
Your wrath severs your foes from items of magic making them incapable of activating them.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one of Artifice, Craft, Creation, Magic, or Metal Domain.
Benefit: When a creature takes damage from your deific wrath they lose the ability to activate magic items for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier.

Wrathful Breath [Wrath]
You are capable of releasing your deific wrath in the form of a devastating breath weapon.
Prerequisites: Deific Wrath, and one Domain with Dragon in the name.
Benefit: You may release your Deific Wrath in the form of a 30-ft cone or 60-ft line, if you do so it allows a Ref save for half.


A gift:

Planar Incarnation
Levels: 1, 16, 20
Replaces: 2 Domains, The Divine Transcendencies gained at 16th and 20th levels.
Effects: Some gods are more like Genius Loci bound to one of the outer planes than someone who receives worship for some concept or another.

At first level, the Incarnation selects a single Planar DomainsSpC rather than the two domains they would normally gain.

At sixteenth level, the Incarnation's home plane changes to the Plane whose Planar Domain they possess. In addition, they gain the ability to use Plane Shift between the Prime Material and their home plane as a Spell-like Ability, treating it as a 5th level spell that belongs to one of their Domains.

At twentieth level, the Incarnation may spend one of their 5th level Spell-like Abilities to precipitate a Minor Planar BreachPlH. If they send a 7th level Spell-like Ability, it precipitates a Severe Breach, while a 9th level Spell-like Ability precipitates a Complete Breach. Unlike a completely random breach, the properties of the Breach are always drawn from the Incarnation's home plane. Otherwise, this ability functions as Precipitate BreachPlH.


And another!

Wolf Power

Omega - Heart-Eating Monster (Ex): Whenever a Werewolf eats a dead humanoid, they gain the ability to take that creature's appearance at-will for a number of days equal to their Charisma modifier. Treat this as Disguise Self, except that it is an actual physical transformation rather than an illusion, it takes the same action as their Hybrid Form class feature, and the changed form lasts indefinitely. You may only one such alternate form at a time.

I took the first part as a "you need to add rules for this"; the lower level ability I did make into a feat and the higher level one made it partially into one of the Abyss transcendencies.

The wolf power is just plain awesome and I am now trying to think of ways to build on it, but I'm half asleep enough I made spider tea earlier so that will come another time.

Zaydos
2015-09-11, 04:04 PM
Well waited a bit to let anyone post comments (in hopes of avoiding double posting) but since no one did.

I am reopening this to voting (albeit without Incarnation as an option. The rules are the same as last time except with a definite end date, and one new addition. You may select one thing you vote for and tell me if you think it was designed for Superheroes or SUPERVILLAINS, and it is considered to have 1 extra vote (in effect you may vote for 1 thing 2 points and 2 things 1 point each).

LoyalPaladin
2015-09-11, 04:24 PM
Freelancer was definitely designed for superheroes.

Vauron
2015-09-11, 05:12 PM
Vestige Priest
Mana Magic System
Jedi

The Mana Magic System is for supervillians.

SkipSandwich
2015-09-11, 05:21 PM
Werewolf is for Supervillians

ImperatorV
2015-09-11, 05:40 PM
Beast Tamer, Werewolf, Courtier (shadowcasting progression?)

Werewolf seems like a Superhero class to me, despite traditional perceptions of werewolves. Probably because the spirit wolf and ice wolf lines remind me of a certain 40k space marine chapter...

Zaydos
2015-09-11, 08:12 PM
So I will say at least 1 person has gotten what a class was for right.


Beast Tamer, Werewolf, Courtier (shadowcasting progression?)

Werewolf seems like a Superhero class to me, despite traditional perceptions of werewolves. Probably because the spirit wolf and ice wolf lines remind me of a certain 40k space marine chapter...

Space Wolves, right? Not super familiar with 40k. And shadowcasting ought to be possible, if an interesting challenge to design.

Werewolf 4
Mana Magic 2
Freelancer 2
Beast Tamer 1
Courtier 1
Jedi 1
Vestige Priest 1

nikkoli
2015-09-12, 05:30 PM
An entire party of Freelancer superhero's would be great.

spikeof2010
2015-09-12, 07:12 PM
Vile Feats (Let's go for a fallen hero here and say SUPERHEROES)
Doomsayer
Freelancer

Zaydos
2015-09-12, 07:12 PM
An entire party of Freelancer superhero's would be great.

Original (http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120611044945/finalfantasy/images/7/7e/FF3_PSP_Wallpaper.jpg), improved (http://static.zerochan.net/Final.Fantasy.V.full.1401563.jpg), new (http://bravelydefault.nintendo.com/img/slide_character_one.png), all girl (http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3100000/FFX2-YRP-final-fantasy-x-x-2-3134088-800-600.jpg), or a full league (http://fantasyanime.com/finalfantasy/fftactics/images/fftacticswlpr06-1600x1200.jpg)?

All are fun, well ok I haven't played FFX2 but I imagine it is, it looks like it should be.


Vile Feats (Let's go for a fallen hero here and say SUPERHEROES)
Doomsayer
Freelancer

I... I... Interesting. At the very least it stirs the inspiration.

Freelancer 5
Werewolf 4
Mana Magic 2
Vile Feats 2
Beast Tamer 1
Courtier 1
Doomsayer 1
Jedi 1
Vestige Priest 1

spikeof2010
2015-09-12, 08:19 PM
What's the matter Zaydos? Can't a man dream about a holy man slinging dark magic at his enemies to save the one he loves? :P

Zaydos
2015-09-12, 09:13 PM
What's the matter Zaydos? Can't a man dream about a holy man slinging dark magic at his enemies to save the one he loves? :P

Ah the 90s Anti-hero. Though in full seriousness I'm now trying to figure out how to make "tragically sacrificed your own Goodness to save another, even though it corrodes your soul and will hurt untold innocents making it a horrible act from a Utilitarian view point but was done to save someone so you feel sympathy even if it leads them to kill women, younglings, and dogs and ultimately drive the same person away in horror" into a prerequisite.

Solaris
2015-09-13, 03:42 PM
I vote Princess ('specially a ToB variant on the Warrior Princess), Jedi, and Exalted Feats.

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-14, 08:56 AM
Mama magic gets two votes, exalted one, vile one.
Edit: I forgot about the design thing. Mama magic was for supervillians. Hope it still counts.

Zaydos
2015-09-14, 01:28 PM
Reminder that you can vote for something twice, but must declare whether you think it's intended for Superheroes or Supervillains.

While this may seem arbitrary, spikeof2010 has actually highlighted the practical reason quite well (it can give inspiration).

Next time the double vote option will actually be more meaningful in that it will serve as a poll of "which of these potential new creations sounds coolest" (though the results may or may not sway me into making what comes out on top).

Zaydos
2015-09-16, 11:32 PM
Edit: I forgot about the design thing. Mama magic was for supervillians. Hope it still counts.

Still counts. Next one will actually be more meaningful (and not directly linked to anything already made).

Which race would you like to see a 20 level Racial Paragon Class for... with limited options not including Warforged.

And Votes Tallied
[SPOILER=Vote Tally]Freelancer 5
Werewolf 4
Mana Magic 4
Vile Feats 3
Jedi 2
Exalted Feats: 2
Beast Tamer 1
Courtier 1
Doomsayer 1
Princess 1.
Vestige Priest 1

Werewolf or one of the feat options.

SkipSandwich
2015-09-17, 11:02 AM
Still counts. Next one will actually be more meaningful (and not directly linked to anything already made).

Which race would you like to see a 20 level Racial Paragon Class for... with limited options not including Warforged.



Very interesting! If early voting is allowed, I'd like to throw mine in for either Half-Giant or Maenad from the XPH/SRD.

I should still have one vote left, since I only used 2 for Werewolf, so i'll put one more vote towards Vile Feats and 2nd the idea of Antihero flavored ones.

JBPuffin
2015-09-17, 04:53 PM
Intoxicanter! Or at least give it a thread so other people might see it and come up with ideas :/. Totally a "hero" thing.
Freelancer? Seems legit.
Mana Magic as well, since MtG addiction.

Zaydos
2015-09-17, 04:59 PM
Very interesting! If early voting is allowed, I'd like to throw mine in for either Half-Giant or Maenad from the XPH/SRD.

I should still have one vote left, since I only used 2 for Werewolf, so i'll put one more vote towards Vile Feats and 2nd the idea of Antihero flavored ones.

No early voting; I have to make the list first among other things. Which I need to do... tomorrow? Soon.

And you should have 1 vote remaining still if you want (you get 2 votes for 1 thing and 1 vote for 2 other things after all, well that's the maximum).

And Votes Re-Tallied due to Ninjutsu
Freelancer 6
Mana Magic 5
Werewolf 4
Vile Feats 4
Jedi 2
Exalted Feats: 2
Intoxicanter: 2
Beast Tamer 1
Courtier 1
Doomsayer 1
Princess 1.
Vestige Priest 1

Edit: And for anyone who is interested Freelancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442986-The-Final-Fantasy-Job-System-in-a-Class-Freelancer) now has its own thread open to comments/critiques/adoration unreasoning hatred from the creator towards the creation leading to it rebelling and killing the creator because he refuses to make it a bride/requests/etc. There is a part of me that hates it. This is not a wholly rational part. I am however rooting against it. Pac-Knight was actually the most functional class in the contest anyway.

Edit2: Also because Freelancer and Mana Magic are competing for the lead and it ends in 48 to 72 hours feel free to post suggestions for what to make. For Freelancer make a suggestion as to what Job you want to see (Geomancer is most likely regardless but who knows you might get 2 or more if suggestions catch my eye, Blue Mage will not be happening :smallfrown:). For Mana Magic I will be doing Blue or Red spells, preferably those which fit the Izzet guild. So feel free to suggest anything Blue or Red (maybe even Blue and Green or Red and Green) but priority belongs to those that bear the Izzet mark. To suggest a card link its gatherer entry. I would pothole link to http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&mark=+[%22Izzet%22] except that you can't do that with Gatherer searches (you can with individual cards like so (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96840)).

spikeof2010
2015-09-18, 12:28 PM
Voting for changeling racial paragon!

Zaydos
2015-09-18, 12:31 PM
Voting for changeling racial paragon!

Voting for that will have to wait till next round in 3 or 4 days (depending upon how much effort Freelancer Job[s] or Mana Spells take) and I've got a list to... state interest in (less direct voting because it will be more advisory than I will do this).

Changeling is liable to appear on the list (unlike Warforged).

Geomancer is liable to have some of the following abilities:

Command Tree
Defenestrate
Sudden Drowning
Flue Spit
and Justice Hammer.


Definitely a superhero :smallbiggrin: Nothing says Super Hero like drowning your enemies.

Zaydos
2015-09-20, 01:54 AM
So I am officially closing this round of voting. Next round of voting begins in ~24 hours assuming someone has commented so I can avoid triple posting.

In addition the results of this round will be editted into this post over the course of the next 24 hours. I am currently writing up Geomancer, but going to have to stop to sleep. Can't promise a second Job (been writing up Geomancer for 5 hours) but if you want one that isn't Nomad with the Patriotism command and abilities that involve throwing a shield please make some suggestions.

The next round will also involve telling me what racial base class you'd like to see, but that poll (not really voting because it won't be necessarily determinant) and will last till the 29th of September. Assuming people are still showing interest the poll after that will begin Oct 1 and last till Oct 28 and have a special theme for everyone's favorite holiday.

And here is what I've got as the results of this one thus far (incomplete will be further edited later):


Class Variants


"Boundlancer"

Really more of a batch of several hundred, possibly eventually reaching over a thousand, "build a class", the "Boundlancer" is the final option mentioned in the adaptation section. To create a "Boundlancer" select 2 Jobs from any tier. You do not gain any Freelancer class features except the aura and maximum Job level. Instead you gain all inherent abilities of both jobs, all passive abilities of both jobs up to your maximum Job level, and all command abilities of both jobs up to your maximum Job level. Your Job level in both jobs is always treated as your maximum Job level.

You gain class skills based upon your selected jobs, these are in addition to those from the Freelancer class. In addition any [Job] Skills ability is modified; you gain true skill ranks instead of virtual ranks and if this would push you over your max ranks you may reassign the excess ranks into skills as you desire (paying double for cross-class ranks as usual). If both jobs grant 3 or more of the same class skill you may select 1 additional class skill which may be any skill for each 3 identical skills.

Class Skills by Job:

Black Mage: Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (the Planes), Spellcraft.
Knight: Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim.
Monk: Balance, Heal, Jump, Move Silently, Tumble
Thief: Balance, Climb, Disable Device, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Open Locks, Search, Tumble
White Mage: Concentration, Heal, Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (the Planes), Spellcraft.
Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Local), Sense Motive, Survival, Use Magic Device
Dragoon: Intimidate, Jump, Ride, Swim
Red Mage: All.
Summoner: Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (the Planes), Spellcraft
Time Mage: Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (History), Spellcraft.
Viking: Balance, Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Swim, and Tumble.
Dark Knight: Autohypnosis, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Spellcraft, and Swim.
Hunter: Handle Animal, Hide, Knowledge (Nature), Survival.
Sword Mage: Climb, Concentration, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, and Swim.
Ninja: Balance, Climb, Disguise, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, and Tumble.
Performer: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Perform, and Sense Motive.
Samurai: Balance, Diplomacy, Iajutsu Focus, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, Sense Motive, and Tumble
Arcanist: Concentration, Knowledge (any), Spellcraft.
Conjurer: Concentration, Knowledge (any), and Spellcraft.
Devout: Concentration, Heal, Knowledge (any), and Spellcraft.
Holy Knight: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Religion), Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft
Limit SOLDIER: Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim.
Geomancer: Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), and Spellcraft.
Merchant: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), and Sense Motive.
Acolyte of the Tonberry: Autohypnosis, Balance, Intimidate, Move Silently, and Swim
Sage: Concentration, Knowledge (any), and Spellcraft.


If both selected Jobs grant you Combat Mastery then your inherent MP growth improves one step (to a maximum of Quickest); if Combat Mastery is a passive and not an inherent of either Job you only gain this once both Jobs would grant you Combat Mastery. If both Jobs grant at least Medium MP growth you gain 1 step improved MP growth, if both grant at least Quick MP growth you gain Quickest+.

A "Boundlancer" uses the following MP growth table instead of that of a Freelancer. Currently it is the same except that it includes Quickest and Quickest+ at lower levels. However it will liably become different if I overhaul the MP costs/values.

MP Growth Table
LevelSlowestSlowMediumQuickQuickestQuickest+
1 0 0 1 1 2 3
2 0 1 2 3 4 5
3 0 2 4 6 7 8
4 1 4 6 9 11 14
5 2 6 10 14 16 19
6 4 8 17 21 24 29
7 6 11 24 29 31 37
8 8 14 35 40 44 51
9 10 18 44 51 55 63
10 12 24 59 67 72 81
11 14 30 72 82 87 97
12 18 36 85 98 104 115
13 22 42 98 112 119 131
14 26 49 105 119 136 149
15 30 56 112 133 152 165
16 34 63 120 147 168 183
17 38 70 130 159 184 199
18 42 77 140 174 200 217
19 46 85 150 191 216 233
20 52 95 160 210 232 249



"Boundlancers" will find many of the Freelancer feats utterly useless to them, and "Boundlancer" levels are not considered the same as Freelancer levels for prerequisites. There are certain feats for "Boundlancers" which enable limited access to a third job and fill this void.


Command Adept
You have greater access to a third command giving you its full range of attack forms.
Prerequisites: Boundlancer level 9+, Command Dabbler.
Benefit: You gain full access to the command chosen with Command Dabbler using your full job level for it.

Command Dabbler:
You have limited access to a third command, giving you a greater range of attack forms.
Prerequisites: Boundlancer level 3+.
Benefit: Select 1 Job. You gain access to its Command. You use your Maximum Job level as your Job level for determining DCs and the power of individual abilities, however you only unlock access to abilities up to 1/2 your Maximum Job level (for example if you chose the Leap command and had a Boundlancer level of 19 giving you max Job level 10 you would gain access to Combat Leap, Fire Breath, Cold Breath, Lightning Breath, Falling Blow, Sweeping Blow, and Lancet abilities, and would deal 10d6 damage with the three breath abilities and a DC of 20 + Con; you would not however gain Mighty Leap or the abilities of Job level 6+).

Job Dabbler:
You have obtained some of the skills of another job granting you one of its passive abilities.
Prerequisites: Boundlancer level 3+.
Benefit: Choose one passive ability which costs 4 or less slots available to any Job at a Job level lower than your maximum Job level. You gain that passive ability.


Finished Geomancer, post if you want the next round to begin or get me to make a 2nd Job... might make Super Soldier regardless.

Zaydos
2015-09-20, 01:31 PM
Well was trying to avoid triple posting, but Geomancer is too big to make in a single post so if you want to see the full results of your votes check the Freelancer thread (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442986-The-Final-Fantasy-Job-System-in-a-Class-Freelancer).

Also since I am fairly sure you've got your vote worth in that I'm going to officially start the next round. On the 29th if anything has gotten votes from at least 3 people I will work on expanding the thing with the most votes. Feel free to vote for up to 3 things, and feel free to tell me what you'd like to see or suggest new things (though no promises there). Each account is allowed up to 3 votes and may not vote for the same thing more than once, regardless of any multiple personalities they may possess. In addition you may select one thing you vote for to gain a second vote but to do so you must tell me which of the races, spoilered below, you would most like to see a 20 level racial paragon style class for. There is no guarantee that I will make any of these or if I do the one that wins but it will be good to know.


Dwarf
Elf
Gnome
Half-Elf
Changeling
Elan
Raptoran
Goliath
Tiefling
Hobgoblin
Your ideas are stupid and you're stupid.


Any other responses will be ignored, unless they are a question.


Expanded Dragonblood: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192406-Expanded-Dragonblood) Adding at least 3 new dragonblood subraces.
Courtier: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?304975-Courtier-%28Base-Class-PEACH%29) At least 2 new alternate magic progressions.
Werewolf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?309502-Listen-to-their-music-the-children-of-the-night-%28Werewolf-as-a-base-class%29): Either 4+ wolf powers or maybe finish the Obyrith/Far Spawn variant (no promises on the latter).
Jinnblood: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312765-Jinnblood-%28Base-Class-Contest-XIX-winner-PEACH%29) New invocations. If someone points me to an 8th genie type maybe a new path.
Vestige Priest: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329655-3-5-Vestige-Priest-%28Soulbinding-Base-Class-PEACH%29) Actually cover some of the online vestiges finally.
Intoxicanter: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350465-Intoxicanter-%28Base-Class-Contest-XXI-winner%29) A new concoction gained via a feat? I don't know.
Doomsayer: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368342-Doomsayer-%283-5-Base-Class%29) New invocations of course.
Princess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414734-Princess-%28Base-Class-Challenge-Winner%29): Umm some new songs.
Avengers as Vestiges: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?308176-Avengers-Assemble-within-me-%286-new-vestiges%29) More Marvel vestiges.
Pacts of Possession: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?330018-Pacts-of-Fiendish-Possession-Or-Soulbinding-a-Fiend) Some more fiends as vestiges.
Beast Tamer: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?226621-Beast-Tamer-%283-5-Base-Class-PEACH%29) More totem feats, because apparently Dinosaurs are needed (and maybe owls).
Mana Magic System (technically the link is to the Simic Biomancer because that is the one thing atm which uses the system): (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402250-Simic-Biomancer-%28M-tG-based-PEACH%29-SHOULD-I-MAKE-MORE-LIKE-THIS) Exotic spells probably Red.
Cytoplasmic Grafts (link is Simic Initiate but also applies to Simic Biomancer): (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?402257-Simic-Initiate-%28M-tG-based-Graft-Fighter-PEACH%29) New grafts for use with Simic Initiator and potentially Simic Initiate.
Jedi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329227-Jedi-%283-5-Base-Class-Star-Wars%29): Feats for Light or Dark Side force powers include suggestions with votes please.
Fiendpact Medium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?399050-Fiendpact-Medium-%283-5-class-sell-your-soul-now!%29): New fiends to make pacts with (suggest a type please).
New Devotion Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?196229-New-Devotion-Feats): More new devotion/domain feats.
Vile Feats: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415346-Some-new-vile-feats-%28PEACH%29) More new vile feats.
Exalted Feats: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415325-Some-new-Exalted-Feats-%28PEACH%29) More new exalted feats.

ImperatorV
2015-09-20, 06:44 PM
I would definitely like to see the 20 level progression for "Your ideas are stupid and you're stupid."

In non-joking terms, I think Elan offers the most potential for a 20 level class. Something defensively oriented with midling psionic progression. Other votes:

Werewolf, Beast Tamer, Courtier. So the same as my last vote.

Zaydos
2015-09-20, 06:54 PM
I would definitely like to see the 20 level progression for "Your ideas are stupid and you're stupid."

In non-joking terms, I think Elan offers the most potential for a 20 level class. Something defensively oriented with midling psionic progression. Other votes:

Werewolf, Beast Tamer, Courtier. So the same as my last vote.

Which of the three, if any, would you like to double vote for?

ImperatorV
2015-09-20, 06:56 PM
Which of the three, if any, would you like to double vote for?

Oh wow my reading skills need work. Double vote on Beast Tamer.

SkipSandwich
2015-09-21, 10:37 AM
Double Vote for Expanded Dragonblood, I would especially like to see a pairing of the Saurian Dragon with some sort of Lizardfolk (I headcannon Lizardfolk as linked with dinosaurs, not dragons, probably due to associating them with the Reptites from Chrono Trigger).

My other two votes will go towards Werewolf and Vile Feats.

The Race I would most like to see a 20 level progression for is Elan, since I love me some psionics.

Markus Darkmind
2015-09-21, 06:08 PM
I'd like to vote for Werewolf (maybe some Catlord-inspired powers?), Vile Feats and Vestige Priest.
For the Racial Class I suggest Changeling, which is always much intriguing. My double vote goes to Werewolf.
Also I'd like to say, great work so far as always!

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-22, 09:05 AM
I will put a one vote in fiendpact medium, make a Ekolid progression with spawn. One vote goes to vile feats and the two votes go to mana magic. I have a great idea for an Izzet class capstone, if you are making a class.

And I would love to see an elf paragon. They have so much fluff of sorcery and archery, as well as woodland supremacy, but none of it is in the race.

spikeof2010
2015-09-22, 02:28 PM
If I understand it, I double vote vile feats.

Changeling paragon!

Zaydos
2015-09-22, 05:04 PM
On each paragon:

Elan: Yeah I'd probably go 1-6 level psionic powers (unique list) and a variety of defensive abilities some requiring PP and some not. I actually made a 10 level PrC on the same basic concept Elan Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444028-Elan-Exemplar-%28Elan-racial-PrC%29&p=19847369#post19847369). The PrC notably differs from how I'd do a base class in not getting psionic powers instead focusing more on the concept of doing other things with Power Points; because I was trying not to just make a Psion PrC. As a base class it would not have that restriction, but would probably get many of the same class features (just spread out more).

Elf: This is one of the three actually likely to get made (along with dwarf and changeling), and you hit on some of the reasons. Again would probably end up with Bard level casting (not sure if prepared or spontaneous, Int based either way, drawn from Wizard list with some Dru/Ran additions, resulting in a more versatile but arguably weaker casting compared to duskblade which gets several spells at a reduced level and more per day) with reduced spells per day, maybe on a Full BAB chassis (maybe not), and get a mix of melee and archery abilities; bonus feats to make archery usable (Precise, Rapid, Many, maybe Point Blank and/or Shot on the Run) and abilities to enable Dex based melee (Weapon Finesse, ability to use Dex instead of Str for damage with finessable weapons, some ability to mix casting with melee attacks). Would get an ability to temporarily enchant 5 arrows/class level each day as up to +1/2 class level weapons (total enhancement) rounded up. Probably would get some stealth abilities too.

Changeling: This is the one I've thought about least of the three people have shown interest in, yet still relatively likely to be made. Probably would end up with a mix of Alternate Form/Wild Shape based abilities (including eventual at-will assumption of weaker forms) and spy-master ones (including minor telepathic abilities and thought reading). Like I said I haven't thought about this one as much, depending upon when they'd start gaining wild shape and how powerful it would be they might even end up with bad BAB to make more room for shapeshifting and spying.

And now for why I'm really making this post, to tally votes while it's still easy:


Beast Tamer: 2
Courtier: 1
Expanded Dragonblood: 2
Fiendpact Medium: 1
Mana Magic: 2
Vestige Priest: 1
Vile Feats: 5
Werewolf: 4

Other notes:
Personally I associate Lizardfolk primarily with the other branch of archosaurs, i.e. crocodiles and alligators, over dinosaurs but dinosaur lizardfolk are fun (I still loves saurials). And reptites are only a little to blame on my side. Only a little.

Izzet class is still going to be on the back burner for a while. If Mana Magic wins I will be making the first steps towards it which is making some Izzet spells. But it'll probably be a while, among other things I think I need to rejigger some things in the Simic Biomancer (reduce their grafts, maybe their evolutions as well) and I want to do that first so I can attempt to maintain internal balance between them.

Ekolid could make a fun possessing fiend. Spawn creation would make an interesting challenge to balance (then again FPM was the class I realized 3 months after making was not a fever dream so I am really unsure about its balance to begin with), because making CR 4 minions (or even just friendly to you demons) is really powerful until they just stop being mechanically useless without some sort of limit and scaling which would feel odd.

Finally: Vile Feats are now in the lead. As this will be getting made right before October begins I whole-heartedly approve of evil feats winning.

JBPuffin
2015-09-22, 07:48 PM
Toss in a vote for vile feats and double vote for mana magic (I can suggest cards to make all day :smallbiggrin:). Would Illumian be workable for a Level 20 RP? If not, I'll take Half-Elf. They're more interesting than elves to me because of the possibility to make them more unique.

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-23, 12:40 PM
If not Ekolid, then what about Nabasau (sp?). Feeding to grow strong would be awesome!

Zaydos
2015-09-23, 03:19 PM
Toss in a vote for vile feats and double vote for mana magic (I can suggest cards to make all day :smallbiggrin:). Would Illumian be workable for a Level 20 RP? If not, I'll take Half-Elf. They're more interesting than elves to me because of the possibility to make them more unique.

Illumian would actually be workable and quite cool. Anachronity made one already on the idea here (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?419210-Illumian-Transcendant-Base-Class-PEACH) which is one reason I didn't include illumian as an option. I would not do it the same way. Which brings to the second reason. I would have to dive into that bag of worms called Truespeak to make one that would satisfy myself, they are living beings of words of power how could I not incorporate truename magic into such a class, but I really don't want to do that in the foreseeable future.

Please ignore the struck through text, checking the rules I am required to ignore that portion of your response entirely :smalltongue:


If not Ekolid, then what about Nabasau (sp?). Feeding to grow strong would be awesome!

Nabassu has some similar problems in that it represents a transformation of short term/refualable resources into permanent ones which tends to cause problems. Now of course this just means instead of gaining some permanent gain you would get short term benefits for killing something especially with a death gaze ability. Nabassu are actually one of my favorite demons, the reason they are lacking from FPM is similar to why Obyriths in general are, they don't typically make such pacts. That said if I expand upon FPM I am going to have to expand into such fiends. Ekolid and Nabassu are actually the two main ones that I can think of that I vaguely remember regretting not including (vaguely because I only remembered it when I glanced over the class after starting to make it again and remembering wait didn't I already make this?).

Also you might be interested in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444799-Elvish-Exemplar-%283-5-Elf-the-Base-Class-PEACH%29). This is what happens when an idea does refuse to leave.

And Votes Tallied


Beast Tamer: 2
Courtier: 1
Expanded Dragonblood: 2
Fiendpact Medium: 1
Mana Magic: 4
Vestige Priest: 1
Vile Feats: 6
Werewolf: 4

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-23, 05:23 PM
Is that it? Did mana magic lose? Oh well at least vile feats won.

Zaydos
2015-09-23, 05:28 PM
Is that it? Did mana magic lose? Oh well at least vile feats won.

No it's just a running tally, I update it whenever I post (and there's been votes), the voting doesn't close for several more days. Werewolf still has a chance to win. I am just highlighting the one in the lead with a color based upon what it is.

Elandris Kajar
2015-09-23, 06:19 PM
Whew. Close alarm. The colored text confused me.

I said it in the actual thread, but the elf paragon is awesome!

Zaydos
2015-09-26, 10:51 AM
Whew. Close alarm. The colored text confused me.

I said it in the actual thread, but the elf paragon is awesome!

I might shouldn't change formatting on a whim, just thought it... would help people rig votes? Umm...

And thanks.

nikkoli
2015-09-26, 09:16 PM
I have to throw my double vote to the vile feats, ease those get neat fast. Then dragon blood and then fiend pack.

Edit: TIEFLING PARAGON. ALL OF THE TIEFLING PARAGON. If you can't tell tieflings are my favorite.

Zaydos
2015-09-26, 09:20 PM
I have to throw my double vote to the vile feats, ease those get neat fast. Then dragon blood and then fiend pack.

Remember to note the requirement for double voting (bolded section).


I will be taking votes in this thread as to what to expand upon from the following list. On the 29th if anything has gotten votes from at least 3 people I will work on expanding the thing with the most votes. Feel free to vote for up to 3 things, and feel free to tell me what you'd like to see or suggest new things (though no promises there). Each account is allowed up to 3 votes and may not vote for the same thing more than once, regardless of any multiple personalities they may possess. In addition you may select one thing you vote for to vote for a second time but to do so you must tell me which of the races, spoilered below, you would most like to see a 20 level racial paragon style class for. There is no guarantee that I will make any of these or if I do the one that wins but it will be good to know.

Just because I made the elf does not mean I'm not thinking about doing more. They will have to wait till November, but still thinking about it and it's nice to get a feel for what might interest people.

Will wait to tally for a bit.

nikkoli
2015-09-26, 09:20 PM
Ye got back before my edit got in

Zaydos
2015-09-27, 12:22 AM
I have to throw my double vote to the vile feats, ease those get neat fast. Then dragon blood and then fiend pack.

Edit: TIEFLING PARAGON. ALL OF THE TIEFLING PARAGON. If you can't tell tieflings are my favorite.


Ye got back before my edit got in

It was that or forget I hadn't said it for 2 days until I decided "I should tally things as an excuse to bump the thread".

Speaking of which since the votes have actually changed I will be tallying things this post.

However first I want to state my approval of tieflings. I am personally upset by 3.x's decision to give them a Dex bonus and a Cha penalty since in 2e they were +Int +Cha (-Str -Con) and they'd be a more equal line up compared to Aasimar as +Int +Cha. I wouldn't care but tieflings may be my favorite (non-dwarf?) D&D race. Plus, like changelings, they make my girlfriend smile (they've been my favorite race other than perhaps dwarf since I was a small child so that's not the primary reason there). They are also a racial paragon class that might get made in October because I think demonspawn counts as something vaguely Halloween/Horror themed, right? Even if they're the defector from decadence as oft as not.

Probably limited invocations (1 or 2 per grade), reduced sneak attack... Not really sure what else they'd have which is probably why they'll be a bit if they get done at all.

And now

Beast Tamer: 2
Courtier: 1
Expanded Dragonblood: 3
Fiendpact Medium: 2
Mana Magic: 4
Vestige Priest: 1
Vile Feats: 8
Werewolf: 4

I continue to approve of Vile Feats being in the lead.

nikkoli
2015-09-27, 11:22 AM
Maybe for tiefling paragon 1-20 you could do stuff that focuses on different fiends? Like have options to gain powers more like a tanar'ri or baatezu or yugoloth? Idk if it's just pathfinder or tieflings in general that are just fiendish humans or what have you.

Zaydos
2015-09-27, 06:59 PM
Maybe for tiefling paragon 1-20 you could do stuff that focuses on different fiends? Like have options to gain powers more like a tanar'ri or baatezu or yugoloth? Idk if it's just pathfinder or tieflings in general that are just fiendish humans or what have you.

Well going through 2e to 5e...

2e: Tieflings are humans who are part demon up to and possibly even beyond 50%. Some combinations (Balor + human woman, Succubus + human think it might have been male only) resort in special half-breeds which are "full" tanar'ri (Cambions and Alu-Fiends respectively). Anyone who is 1/2 devil is a tiefling... at least if the other half is human. Tieflings have a base set of abilities, but Monte Cook introduced a table of random tiefling abilities representing the various different heritages one may have. Also had a random table of inhuman features. It was cool. Monte Cook's Planescape books remain the best RPG supplements I have ever bought and I really should look into Numenera. The 'loths are never the ancestors of tieflings because of their racial purity kick.

3e: They introduce the Half-Fiend template and remove Cambions and Alu-Fiends entirely :smallfrown:. Tieflings are now < 50% fiend by definition and no longer attempted to be balanced against PHB races. Sometimes tieflings come from atavistic inheritance of fiendish traits. There is no random tiefling abilities table :smallfrown: For some reason they have a Charisma penalty. The 'loths lack detail in this edition.

3.5: UA introduced LA buyoff which might make a tiefling almost worth playing. The 'loths manage even less detail and some rather un-'loth-like things.

4e: Tieflings look like something out of WoW and are no longer humans with fiendish blood within the past few generations but descendants of an ancient kingdom which made pacts with demons. They are restored to their original ability score bonuses (Int and Wis). I consider this a mixed bag of things. Do the 'loths even exist anymore?

5e: Tieflings are once again noted for infernal blood but it's less fleshed out than in older editions so you can go with 3e and 4e and maybe even 2e interpretations. Do the 'loths even exist anymore?

In general, though, I'd personally focus less on specific fiends since when playing a tiefling I am very rarely trying to emulate a fiend, and also because I made Fiendpact Medium already and a little refluff and it works for that as is... I think. I should read it in detail at some point.

Current thoughts are 1 or 2 Invocations of each grade, Sneak Attack at 1st, 4th, 7th, ... up to +7d6 at 19th, some abilities to represent their human heritage as well as their fiendish (Umm... not sure), loss of Cha penalty (as a ribbon), Cha bonus (less of a ribbon). There would be some improvement of fiendish abilities, probably DR X/material (Silver for Devil heritage, Cold Iron for Demon) and if 2 invocations are given of each grade 1 for each grade would be fixed by fiendish heritage (devil vs demon). If I did things for specific heritages (I'm part osyluth) it'd probably just be as an ACF for one level. Since I'd be aiming for tier 3, preferably firmly tier 3, they'd probably end up somewhat stronger than Warblade (tier 3, arguably tier 4), rogue (tier 4, arguably tier 3), or warlock (tier 4, arguably tier 3). Probably coming out as some sort of hybrid rogue-warlock with decent (sub warblade) damage without resorting to hellfire glaive. Keep them physically pretty human, no claws, wings, fangs, and focus more on the magic-rogue aspect of a tiefling with a touch of the assassin. Keep the fiendish traits non-visually obvious; things like improved resistances, poison immunity, etc. Find some ability to really express that a tiefling is human as well as demon, and uses both together to rise to higher than either can go alone.

And now I'm thinking about tieflings who come about from a mingling of fiendish bloodlines and have decent from both devils and demons. I'd say erinyes but they are implied to be able to faithfully reproduce with human males and birth erinyeses (erinyedes? I'm not good with Greek plurals). So umm... part Osyluth and part Hezrou, and mostly human.

Eldest
2015-09-27, 07:12 PM
Mana magic system (with a preference towards Dimir/Rakdos/Izzet/Golgari/dammit anything I love that system), mana magic system again. And Changeling for the racial paragon class.

VoodooPaladin
2015-09-27, 10:25 PM
Find some ability to really express that a tiefling is human as well as demon, and uses both together to rise to higher than either can go alone.

Well, demons are conceptually known for possession, devils for contracts, and yugoloths for anarcho-capitalism, so...

They all meet at bending others to your will through mental and physical manipulation, so how about something like "corrupting" others? Not the kind that needs a mutation table, but just warping peoples' thoughts and perception until they do the things you want, and don't give two ****s about anything that doesn't relate to their (your) personal goals?

Since it should look mundane, how about it actually be mundane? Tieflings don't really need magic to ruin you, a few bribes here and a few threats there - maybe a bout of sabotage to make it convincing - can handle that just fine. Magic just speeds things up.

And another thing: 4e Tiefs getting back their old scores makes no sense to me. 4e Tieflings are super-gypsies with racial temper problems, and 3e's +Dex/-Cha actually makes sense for that. The fluff went one way and the crunch went the other, and we ended up with Tieflings who preferred to make pacts with anything other than devils. How does that even happen?

Zaydos
2015-09-28, 01:25 PM
Well, demons are conceptually known for possession, devils for contracts, and yugoloths for anarcho-capitalism, so...

They all meet at bending others to your will through mental and physical manipulation, so how about something like "corrupting" others? Not the kind that needs a mutation table, but just warping peoples' thoughts and perception until they do the things you want, and don't give two ****s about anything that doesn't relate to their (your) personal goals?

Since it should look mundane, how about it actually be mundane? Tieflings don't really need magic to ruin you, a few bribes here and a few threats there - maybe a bout of sabotage to make it convincing - can handle that just fine. Magic just speeds things up.

And another thing: 4e Tiefs getting back their old scores makes no sense to me. 4e Tieflings are super-gypsies with racial temper problems, and 3e's +Dex/-Cha actually makes sense for that. The fluff went one way and the crunch went the other, and we ended up with Tieflings who preferred to make pacts with anything other than devils. How does that even happen?

This does remind me they need to get some resistance to charm and compulsion of some sort (bonus to saves, slippery mind, something) just because the #1 rule of tieflings is always look out for yourself. Though I think I'm going to avoid giving them an ability which is "I can bribe people to ruin your life" since a commoner can already do that, and that's what 6 or 8 skill points per level is for anyway. Now they might have magic to help, or some bonuses to certain skills such as Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive which should cover mundane life ruining corruption somewhere in there even if I don't give them all of those. The 3rd(?) rule about tieflings is that they flourish in an urban situation even though everyone hates them as a species (rule #2) they are always able to work their way in somehow.

A part of me does want to give them the ability to make supernaturally enforceable pacts since demons and devils both do that (devils more than demons), but that's not so much tiefling as well devil.

Really should be something that gets to the heart of the recurring theme in (2e at least) tieflings of wanting acceptance from fiends and/or humans while also just not wanting to be noticed because of the hate and prejudice they deal with at all times. Hmm...

Either way...

Beast Tamer: 2
Courtier: 1
Expanded Dragonblood: 3
Fiendpact Medium: 2
Mana Magic: 6
Vestige Priest: 1
Vile Feats: 8
Werewolf: 4

Vile Feats remain in the lead, Mana Magic just a neck behind. Werewolf is falling further afield, but with 10 to 34 hours remaining* it is still theoretically anybody's race.

*Due to other plots and schemes it is likely to lean towards 34 so, if Vile Feats or Werewolf wins, I can work it in with something else I'm going to be doing soon.

alaalba_123
2015-09-28, 01:38 PM
Double vote for Vile feats, and you should do the Tiefling racial Paragon. My third vote, I guess I'll throw to Exalted feats(which if there was any hope of it winning, I would have thrown my double vote at.)

Zaydos
2015-09-29, 01:18 AM
Preview for what you might see if Vile feats win:

Awakened by Madness

Deformity (Tongueless)

Kin Eater

Vile Wild Shape

And more of course. This is a teaser.

Voting is still open It is unlikely to close in the next 20 hours since... ulterior motives make me want to delay the posting of Vile feats until the 30th and I will not close it till either I post the materials or the max time frame is almost up.

That said

Beast Tamer: 2
Courtier: 1
Exalted Feats: 1
Expanded Dragonblood: 3
Fiendpact Medium: 2
Mana Magic: 6
Vestige Priest: 1
Vile Feats: 10
Werewolf: 4

Zaydos
2015-09-29, 09:59 PM
So promised 20 hours and they've passed. Therefore I declare this round of voting over. The next round will begin... once I can do it without triple posting.

And the fruit of this round, and second entrant into the Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?446705-The-Harrowing-Halloween-Harvest-of-Horror&p=19889167#post19889167) is:

Body of Poison [Vile]
Your very sweat is toxic, your blood a poison which oozes forth, even your spit is potentially deadly.
Prerequisites: Deformity (Toxin)
Benefit: Any creature struck by one of your natural weapons or unarmed strike or which grapples you suffers the effects of your poison granted by the Deformity (Toxin) feat. In addition you may spit on a creature as a standard action, this is a ranged touch attack with a range of 10 ft which does not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target. This spit inflicts poison like your natural weapons.

Cook Flesh [Vile]
You are able to prepare the flesh of your species in such a way as to heal others not just yourself.
Prerequisites: Kin Eater, and Profession (Cook) 5 ranks or Halfling.
Benefit: You can cook the flesh of a creature so as to allow up to 5 other creatures, or ½ your ranks in Profession (Cook) worth (whichever is higher), to eat its flesh and gain the benefits of the Kin Eater feat from doing so; it must be a creature which triggers the Kin Eater feat for you regardless of what species the creatures you feed it to are.
If you have Devour Knowledge you can cook a creature’s brain this way.
There must be at least 1/4th a pound of meat per serving, or at least a mouthful of brain.

Corrupted Chakra
You have corrupted one of your chakras, sanctifying it to the forces of darkness to draw more power through it.
Prerequisite: Con 13+, Ability to shape 1 or more soulmelds.
Benefit: When you select this feat you must choose one chakra for its effects to apply to. Any soulmeld shaped in that chakra is treated as having any essentia invested into this feat invested into it up to that soulmeld’s essentia capacity, and you gain a bonus to your meldshaper level for the purposes of this soulmeld. If the soulmeld has the [Evil] descriptor or you are on a plane with the Evil Aligned trait then each point of essentia invested into this feat is considered to be 2 points of essentia in the corresponding soulmeld up to that soulmeld’s essentia capacity.
The scarring of your soul necessary for this feat makes you somewhat standoffish and inhuman in your responses giving you a -2 penalty to diplomacy checks. This penalty is increased by the amount of essentia you have invested in this feat.
If you have bound a soulmeld to the selected chakra you gain an additional benefit based upon the associated chakra. All bonuses are profane.
ChakraBenefit
Arms+2 to Grapple checks
Brow+2 to Search and Spot
Crown+2 to intimidate
Feet+5 ft land speed
Hands+2 to sleight of hand
Heart+1 to saving throws
Shoulders+2 to Concentration and Survival
SoulDR 2/-
ThroatGain the benefits of a [i]Tongue spell
Totem+1 damage with natural weapons
Waist+4 to resist Bull Rush and Trip attempts
You gain 1 point of essentia.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time you have to select a different chakra.

Deformity (Flesh) [Vile]
You have scarred or burned your flesh with the blasphemous sigils of fiends, dark gods, and ancient evil powers.
Prerequisites: Willing Deformity.
Benefit: Your scars supernaturally harden your flesh, and you gain DR 2/good and a +1 to your natural armor, +1 more for every 2 Vile feats you possess other than this one. Your scars cover your torso and arms and any creature able to see them clearly may identify your dark allegiance with a DC 20 Knowledge (religion) check, identifying the general nature of your liege if they make DC 25. If you use a transmutation or transformative effect to transform your flesh so that these scars no longer appear (you may choose to keep them) the benefits of this feat are lost for the duration as well.

Deformity (Heart) [Vile]
You have removed your heart offering it up to your dark gods in exchange for their blessings, leaving nothing but a hollow whole in your chest where it should be.
Prerequisites: Willing Deformity.
Benefit: You are staggered in an anti-magic or dead magic zone. You gain DR 3/- and your existing DR increases by 3 (this does not increase DR /- twice). You gain a +4 profane bonus to saving throws against Death effects and a +2 untyped bonus on saving throws against injury poisons.
Normal: You die if you rip your heart out.

Deformity (Tongueless) [Vile]
You have cut out your own tongue in a dark pact with ancient forces of shadow and silence.
Prerequisites: Willing Deformity.
Benefit: You gain a +6 profane bonus to Move Silently checks. When you successfully strike a creature in melee you may choose to forgo dealing damage to force them to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Strength or Dexterity modifier + 1 per 5 points of damage which would have been dealt) or be rendered mute and unable to make any vocalizations for 1 round per Vile feat you possess.
Special: You have no tongue, or at most a stub of one. You cannot talk, and swallowing is sort of hard.

Demonic Rage [Vile]
When your anger rises you take on traits of the Lords of the Abyss, your dark power seeming to bleed from you.
Prerequisites: Ability to rage.
Benefit: When you enter into a rage you seem to grow slightly, demonic traits growing evident upon your body; your feet changing into hooves, your face becoming mane or babau like, vestigial vrock wings extending from your back or other cosmetic changes. Any creature observing you rage may make a DC 15 Knowledge (the Planes) check to determine that the changes are fiendish in nature, and a DC 25 reveals that they are from a willing pact.
While raging you gain a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks, DR 3/good, if you have DR X/- you gain DR X+3/good instead, and Spell Resistance 6 + your character level against spells and spell-like abilities of good aligned creatures.

Devour Knowledge [Vile]
You can eat the brains of your own kind to gain their knowledge and insights.
Prerequisites: Kin Eater.
Benefit: You may safely eat the brains of creatures of your type. If you eat the fresh brain of a slain creature which shares your type or species (in case your type has changed due to class features or templates) you can garner some of the knowledge held within. When you do so you gain knowledge of that creature’s Intelligence score, Wisdom score, Charisma score, Skill Ranks, and Feats and may choose one of the following benefits:
You are considered to have ranks in one skill equal to the number of ranks that creature had in it.
Gain the benefits of one feat the creature possessed.
Gain an enhancement bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to make your score equal the eaten creature’s.
Gain knowledge of 1 question per hit die as if interrogating the eaten creature’s intact corpse with Speak with Dead.

These benefits last for 1 hour, or in the case of questions can be asked at any time within that period as a free action.
You do not have to eat the entire brain to gain this benefit, one mouthful is sufficient. You can only gain this benefit from any one creature once. To gain this benefit the brain you devour must be no more than 8 hours old, a Gentle Repose or Preserve Organ spell can prolong this period.
Normal: Eating brains is unhealthy and can lead to prion disorders (mad cow disease).

Invoke Vile Heritage (Outsider) [Vile]
You have the ability to invoke the blood of fiends which runs through your veins temporarily granting yourself their blasphemous forms.
Prerequisites: Character Level 3+ and Fiendish Heritage, Fiendpact Medium, Tiefling, or Half-Fiend.
Benefit: When you take this feat select Tanar’ri or Baatezu as your fiendish heritage (if you have Abyssal Heritor feats you must select Tanar’ri; if you select Tanar’ri this feat counts as an Abyssal Heritor feat). As a swift action you may assume the form of a fiend as if with the alternate form ability except that you lose any Su abilities from your race and gain those of your assumed form and you do not replace your physical ability scores with those of the assumed form instead replacing your Racial Ability modifiers for Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity with those of the assumed form (Ability score -10 or 11 if it is odd). You may return to your natural form as a swift action, and may remain in this alternate form for up to 10 rounds each day. The form assumed is dependent upon your Effective Class Level, and chosen fiendish heritage as shown on the table below. A fiendpact medium must choose Tanar’ri or Baatezu as matches their fiendish pact (exception: if they have Abyssal Heritor feats and a Baatezu pact they may choose either). All fiends are either from MM, FCI, or FCII. You may choose a weaker fiend.
ECLBaatezuTanar’ri
3LemureMane
4-6SpinagonRutterkin
7-10Bearded DevilBar-Lgura
11-14ErinyesSuccubus
15-19Bone DevilVrock
20+GelugonGlabrezu

Kin Eater [Vile]
You can eat the flesh of your own species to heal your own wounds, and recuperate after battle.
Benefit: You can eat the raw flesh of a member of your own species (they may be a different subrace of the same species, for example a goblin could eat a blue but not a hobgoblin, meanwhile a drow could eat a high elf or even an aquatic elf) without medical issues. In addition if you eat 4 or more ounces of meat from a single dead creature of your species you heal hit points equal to ½ their hit dice (minimum 1), and if you are fatigued that condition is ended immediately. When healing from this ability you may heal 1 point of ability damage to one physical ability score (Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity) instead of 5 hit points. If the devoured flesh is from your close kin (2nd cousin or 1st cousin twice removed or closer) you heal 2 hp per hit die of the devoured creature, and 1 point of ability drain to one physical ability score or all ability damage to all physical ability scores.
To heal from this feat the meat you devour must be no more than 8 hours old, a Gentle Repose or Preserve Organ spell can prolong this period. You may not heal from eating the flesh of one creature more than once.
If you are a half breed you count as both of your halves; or all of them if you have more than 2. If you have a template such as Half-Fiend you must choose one species of fiend to count as; despite the method of promotion each type of Baatezu or Tanar’ri is in fact treated as its own species.
Normal: Eating the raw flesh of a member of your species is a good way to get sick, especially if it is the brain or certain other organs.

Lolth Sworn [Vile]
You have sworn yourself to the traitor goddess betraying Larethian and the elves as she once did.
Prerequisites: Elf, non-drow, patron deity Lolth.
Benefit: Swearing yourself to the spider goddess she grants you some of the benefits of her superior race of elves. You gain Darkvision 30 ft, your racial bonus to saves versus Enchantment now applies to any Will save made against a spell or spell-like ability, you gain proficiency in hand crossbows, and you gain the ability use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire. Your caster level equals your character level minus 2, and you must be at least 3rd level to use these spell-like abilities. You are considered a drow for spells and effects and fulfilling prerequisites (with the exception of this feat). Like drows you must pass the drider test at 6th level.

Luck of Hell [Luck, Vile]
There is no luck greater than that granted by Asmodeus (or other archfiends).
Prerequisite: Must devote yourself to the service of an archfiend, elder evil, great old one or evil aligned deity.
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll to reroll any attack roll, saving throw, skill or ability check as an immediate action. However each time you use this feat you must hunt down and kill a good aligned humanoid for no purpose other than to placate your dark master, this humanoid must be ritualistically sacrificed to the dark entity. If you do not do so within a week you lose all benefits of this feat, suffer a -1 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks, and have fiendish bounty hunters assigned to bring in your head until you perform the requisite sacrifices (however many are owed) and atone.
You gain one luck reroll per day.

Nightmare Weapon Specialization [Vile]
The darkness of your soul wears away at the sanity of your foes with each blow.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Fighter level 4+.
Benefit: When wielding a weapon you have Weapon Focus for your attacks deal 1 point of Wisdom damage in additional to their normal damage; this Wisdom damage is multiplied on a critical hit. Evil aligned Outsiders, Aberrations, Undead, and Magical Beasts are immune to this Wisdom damage.

Overwhelming Hatred [Vile]
Your hatred of your foe stirs a supernatural dread within them.
Prerequisites: Favored Enemy, Intimidate 5 ranks.
Benefit: The first time during an encounter that you strike a creature that you have as a Favored Enemy (trigger tracked separately for each creature) it must make a Will save (DC 9 + ½ your ranks in intimidate + Str or Dex whichever you use to hit) or be shaken for 1 minute as your sheer hatred overwhelms their senses. A creature must also make this save any time you score a critical hit which deals more than 4 damage to it per hit die it possesses.

Vile Skill Focus [Vile]
Who needs dedication and training to an art when dark pacts and sold souls can grant a fast road to power?
Benefit: When you take this feat select a skill. You gain a +2 profane bonus to that skill. By sacrificing an animal to the dark powers you may increase this to a +3 bonus for 1 day. By sacrificing a sapient creature you can increase this to a +4 bonus for 1 day. By sacrificing a humanoid you can increase this to a +5 bonus for 1 day. By ritualistically sacrificing an Outsider with the Good subtype or a humanoid child you can increase this to a +6 bonus for 1 day. A creature whose alignment is evil and whose species is Always [insert] Evil does not count as a valid sacrifice. A creature which it is in your interest to kill for reasons other than as part of a vile feat is grants a bonus 2 less than it would otherwise (if you kill an animal and plan to eat it you get no bonus, if you sacrifice a defeated enemy you only get a +3 total). A ritualistic sacrifice for this feat takes 1 minute and involves reciting an incantation to the dark powers which grant it to you. If you select Craft or Profession with this feat all bonuses last 1 week instead of 1 day.
Special: This feat counts as Skill Focus for the purposes of prerequisites.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time you must select a different skill, however a single sacrifice functions for all instances of Vile Skill Focus as long as the dark beings with which you made a pact are the same for all instances.

Vile Wild Shape [Vile, Wild]
You can use your wild shape ability to take the form of an evil aligned magical beast or certain outsiders.
Prerequisites: Wild shape class ability, wild shaping class level 8th.
Benefit: You can use your wild shape ability to turn yourself into a displacer beast, hell hound, hieracosphinx, winter wolf, or worg.
You can also turn into a fiendish version of any animal you could normally transform into. (At the DM’s discretion, other magical beast forms might be available to you. In general, this should be limited to creatures of CR 3 or lower.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the creature. This ability counts as a use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way.

Writ in the Book of Names [Flaw]
In a rite honoring the dark powers you have marred your own truename, abridging it and transforming it into something blasphemous.
Prerequisites: Truespeak 2 ranks.
Effect: The DC to speak your personal truename is decreased by 4, and you no longer gain a bonus to speak your own truename. If an evil outsider speaks your personal truename it may call you to its side from anywhere in the multiverse, or if you are within hearing offer you a suggestion (CL = its ranks in Truespeak); either way you may make a DC 15 + the speaker’s Int modifier Will save to resist the effect and be immune to that creature’s invocations of your truename for 1 hour. If another creature speaks your personal truename in your presence they may offer you a suggestion but the DC is only 13 + the speaker’s Int modifier, and they may not call you to their side.
Special: You may only take a Vile feat or Fiendish Heritage as the bonus feat from this flaw.