Making a Witcher

[Blackhawk748]

Making a character based off of Geralt from the Witcher series, so what this build needs is:

1. Potion Making (this is easy)
2. Combat capability
3. A lot of Skills
4. Two Fighting Styles (TWF and THF)
5. Have an answer to most problems.

What this screams to me is SotAO Ranger 6 who went TWF and just has a Greatsword, grab Brew Potion at lvl 6 and your pretty much done. The issue is, no Pounce or similar ability. However i can solve this by using a buddies homebrewed Ranger class variant, Undead Stalker, which, among other things gets me Turn Undead, so i can fuel Travel Devotion. It would look like this:

Human Undead Stalker Ranger 6
1. Power Attack, Favored Power Attack. FE: Undead (mandatory)
2. TWF
3. Travel Devotion, Undead Smite (replaces Endurance)
4. Turn Undead, replaces Animal companion.
6. ITWF, Brew Potion

Problems, this build doesnt feel very efficient, also i have no idea what to do with SotAO as its not something i usually do, so any suggestions for improvements, or fests post 6 are appreciated.

[Keltest]

The swords Geralt uses would be bastard or longswords, not greatswords. he is capable of using them one handed as well as two, and at least in the first game, the silver sword styles leave one hand free as often as possible so he can use signs unencumbered.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Is Pathfinder material on the table? It screams Alchemist or Investigator to me. If not... hmm.

Runesmith strikes me as the best option, honestly. Wizard/Abjurant Champion/Runesmith/Eldrich Knight, say. A single level of the PrC lets you prepare your spells in the form of tangible objects-- they're not actually potions, but they're close enough. If you only take the first level, they'll even only work on you, like a Witcher's potion.
Maybe a melee-focused Artificer, re-fluffing Infusions as (more) potions? I don't really know how to build such a thing, though.
With sufficient re-fluffing, a Binder might work, oddly enough. Pretend the different vestiges are different potions.
Similarly, Magic of Incarnum classes-- soulmelds become long-term potion effects.

[Psyren]

Witchguard Ranger VMC Alchemist seems to do the trick.

[Morty]

Two-weapon fighting isn't necessary, since witchers do not use both swords at once. Mind you, the style in which they wield them has been aggressively ignored by D&D for years. I'd use the rules for an elven courtblade or another two-handed finesseable weapon - Pathfinder has a few, doesn't it?

[Blackhawk748]

Two-weapon fighting isn't necessary, since witchers do not use both swords at once. Mind you, the style in which they wield them has been aggressively ignored by D&D for years. I'd use the rules for an elven courtblade or another two-handed finesseable weapon - Pathfinder has a few, doesn't it?

Valid point, i dont know why i remembered him TWF.... Though the Thinblade is a good idea, just get two of them. I am seriously saddened that there isnt an appropriate Hand and a Half style in DnD, always bugged me.

[Keltest]

Valid point, i dont know why i remembered him TWF.... Though the Thinblade is a good idea, just get two of them. I am seriously saddened that there isnt an appropriate Hand and a Half style in DnD, always bugged me.

Geralt will use his steel sword two handed unless he is casting a sign, in which case he isn't swinging it at all. The trademarks of witcher combat styles are fast and accurate strikes, not necessarily powerful. Unfortunately, that is not really supported with two handed weapons in d&d either.

The silver sword is a bit different because combatting monsters more often than not involves specialty equipment designed to incapacitate them for a lethal blow rather than just hacking them apart with a sword.

[Blackhawk748]

Geralt will use his steel sword two handed unless he is casting a sign, in which case he isn't swinging it at all. The trademarks of witcher combat styles are fast and accurate strikes, not necessarily powerful. Unfortunately, that is not really supported with two handed weapons in d&d either.

The silver sword is a bit different because combatting monsters more often than not involves specialty equipment designed to incapacitate them for a lethal blow rather than just hacking them apart with a sword.

Ok, so Steel sword would probably be Greatsword and the Silver would be a Bastard sword, so i can have a free hand to chuck stuff, like tanglefoot bags :smallbiggrin:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ok, so Steel sword would probably be Greatsword and the Silver would be a Bastard sword, so i can have a free hand to chuck stuff, like tanglefoot bags :smallbiggrin:
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure that it's a free action to take a hand off your greatsword to cast, and a free to put it back on to attack next round. You might not be able to attack with it in one hand, but you can certainly hold it.

[Blackhawk748]

You don't have to. I'm pretty sure that it's a free action to take a hand off your greatsword to cast, and a free to put it back on to attack next round. You might not be able to attack with it in one hand, but you can certainly hold it.

That is also true :smalltongue: Its been too long since ive Gished

[ComaVision]

I made a build stub for Soloman Kane a while ago. Kind of the same ballpark.

Ranger 2/Paladin 3/Witch Slayer 2/Divine Crusader X

[BowStreetRunner]

Wizard/Abjurant Champion/Runesmith/Eldrich Knight, say.

Ranger 2/Paladin 3/Witch Slayer 2/Divine Crusader X
OP has the E6 tag on this thread, so I don't think all of these PrC builds are going to be helpful.

[ComaVision]

OP has the E6 tag on this thread, so I don't think all of these PrC builds are going to be helpful.

Meh. Ranger 2/Paladin 3/Knight of the Weave 1

Pretty good E6 Witcher.

[Gabrosin]

One of the players in our current campaign is playing Geralt as a Duskblade. I haven't played the games, so I don't know if this is a reasonable choice.

[Blackhawk748]

One of the players in our current campaign is playing Geralt as a Duskblade. I haven't played the games, so I don't know if this is a reasonable choice.

Duskblade would work, the only issue i see is the skills, i see Witchers as fairly skilled individuals, and while the Duskblade has plenty of points from being an Int based caster, their skill list is lacking.

A Savage Rogue//Duskblade would be about perfect IMO though.

[Keltest]

Duskblade would work, the only issue i see is the skills, i see Witchers as fairly skilled individuals, and while the Duskblade has plenty of points from being an Int based caster, their skill list is lacking.

A Savage Rogue//Duskblade would be about perfect IMO though.

While witchers do their jobs fairly well, they don't universally have all that many skills beyond their swordsmanship, alchemy, and trapmaking. They might pick up other useful skills in their travels, or they might not. I wouldn't consider witchers to be skill monkeys like rogues. Geralt would have moderately high social skills, but many other witchers wouldn't.

[Fouredged Sword]

Eh, you are high int... Maybe work in a paragon class.

Maybe Duskblade 3 / Human Paragon 2 / Trapsmith 1.

You get a nice spread of skills, pretty good bab, the ability to place mundane traps, and an odd list of first level spells that includes a few 3rd level spells. Pick up Practiced Spellcaster for trapsmith and start cranking out potions and scrolls of haste for cheap.

Your two spells for trapsmith - Pick 2, Dispel magic, Gaseous form or Haste.

Stock up of level 1 pearls of power. All your spells are level 1 spells, so at 500gp a pop crafting them yourself, you should almost never run out of spells to carve your way through your enemies with.

I would not worry too much about pounce in E6. You only get one iterative, and I find DM's like to pit you VS monsters above your CR. Iterative are mostly useful for attacking multiple weaker enemies (or crit fishing)

[DrKerosene]

Duskblade would work, the only issue i see is the skills, i see Witchers as fairly skilled individuals, and while the Duskblade has plenty of points from being an Int based caster, their skill list is lacking.

A Savage Rogue//Duskblade would be about perfect IMO though.

I was thinking "Feat Rogue", but this is very good too. I would consider the Spell Reflection alternative to Evasion.

I also wanted to point out that TWF can occur with a 2-Handed Weapon+Armor Spikes (-4 on attack rolls), if you're really going to invest in TWF.

[Blackhawk748]

I was thinking "Feat Rogue", but this is very good too. I would consider the Spell Reflection alternative to Evasion.

I also wanted to point out that TWF can occur with a 2-Handed Weapon+Armor Spikes (-4 on attack rolls), if you're really going to invest in TWF.

Well its that or Rapid shot, both are useful, but i usually can get more use out of TWF.

Ok, maybe Rogue was a bit to much, i just feel like Witchers have more skills than just the Duskblade, hence why i started with Ranger. The Duskblade/Paragon/Trapsmith sounds kinda fun actually.

[Kudaku]

I'd start off with figuring out exactly what a witcher entails. Geralt's the obvious example of a witcher, here's what I can recall from the top of my head.

+ Excellent swordsmanship, heavy emphasis on agility, footwork, mobility. Primarily fights with a sword grasped in two hands, alternating between steel and silver depending on his opponent.
+ Deep insight into various types of beasts, fey and magical beings. Geralt can recognize many creatures by sight, scent, tracks, or simply observing patterns.
+ Modest grasp of magic - potent in his own right, but unable to replicate the feats of dedicated spellcasters.
+ Good grasp of alchemy, able to produce and benefit from mutagens, potions and bombs.
+ Extremely keen senses.
+ Excellent tracker.
+ Good rider?

Next I'll take a look at what I forgot! Here's the witcher wiki (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Witcher):

* Sterility
* Nightvision
* Tremendous resistance to disease
* Dramatically increased strength, speed, reflexes and endurance
* Accelerated Healing
* Incredibly long lifespan

Hm... The class that immediately springs to mind is Investigator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator#TOC-Investigator-Talent-Ex-or-Su-) or Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist). Investigator has the class skills to cover Geralt's various pursuits, alchemy matches up nicely, and Studied Combat makes Geralt a lethal combatant. The main thing missing there would be bombs and spellcasting, since alchemy and spells aren't quite the same. VMC alchemist could work, but not for E6 - they don't get bombs till level 7. Hm... Unchained Rogues (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/rogue-unchained) get Minor/Major Magic and the Bomber talents, which could work. Maybe Investigator 4/Unchained Rogue 2 with two feats spent on extra rogue talent?

[Hal0Badger]

Well I am not faimiliar with PF, so don't know about investigator or alchemist; but those definitely does not sound "witcher". What screams witcher in 3.5, is ranger. But, you need to force some roleplay into this and require a bit tinkering.

Lets start with weapon style:
For the Weapon style part, ask if you can choose feats like pathfinder ranger, if not, there is a 3rd party edition from Legends&Lairs; Wildscape. It has 2 handed weapons style which basically gives:
2nd level: +1 dodge bonus to AC while using 2 handed weapons. (****ty).
6th level: Whirlwind attack with 2 handed weapons . ( I like this ).
11th level: Ferocious blow: This basically -AC to +damage, 1:2 ratio. You can up to -5 penalty on your AC, and cannot use both PA and this ability.
This is not very good, but whirlwind attack is at least solid and well fitting for the witcher fighting style.
Another thing is you can supplement fighting style with daily spell slots. Ranger has quite nice spells, and to me, they are more like x time/day usable abilities rather than spells: Swift Haste, Lion's charge and Blade Storm are my favourites. Don't know if you can access them in E6 game though. (some E6 games allow getting higher level spells or CL via feats).

For knowledge about monsters part:
Education, Knowledge devotion. This fits perfectly to witcher, and would give you nice bonus on early on. You even get FE and FE related feats (FE Powerattack is very VERY nice, dragon compendium version of course). Ghostwalk, has an 3.5 update. Why it is important is, it has the feat Extra Favored Enemy: you can choose another FE, but it is only +2, and you cannot upgrade other FE bonuses when you get this feat, unlike the class feature. (normally, when you gain a new FE, you also choose to upgrade one existing FE bonus +2 more as well).

Potions/oil part:
In E6, this is quite hard, but in normal leveling system, you would get access to some Stat boasting spells and armor spells, dark vision and so on when you hit level 2 spells and higher. I usually use them to brew potion rather than casting in game, but don't know how it will interact in E6.

Spell casting part:
Okay this is where it gets a bit ****ty. You cannot exactly duplicate this with ranger, but IMHO, you shouldn't anyway. The signs witchers cast are quite minor spells, especially compared to other spellcasters. For example, igni at best is burning hands spell, and only the strongest "sign caster" witchers can pull a CL 5 version of it, where as a sorcerer can easily throw a CL 10 fireball. In books, I believe sign casting is not even an ordinary part of the witcher training, only some witchers can do it.
The point I want to make is, casting signs is the least powerful aspect of a witcher, therefore, it is the most expendable part for me.
I suggest getting Academic Priest(dragonlance; level 1 only feat), this allows you to make INT primary stat for your bonus spells and max level of spell you can cast, and since I don't use offensive spells, it fits perfectly for my witcher. Plus, more INT means more skill points, bonus on knowledge check and Craft(alchemy).

Another couple of things to add:

Animal companion: witchers don't have it. Trade it with distracting attack (PH II), or yet better, with Solitary Hunting (DM ACF; adds FE bonus to attacks as well, but cannot remember the which issue)

Armor: Normally, I won't pull tricks with mixing 3.0 and 3.5 stuff, but this is an exception for me. Witcher armor's are unique, and you can see it in the game as well. They are both durable and light. The armor in the games look like, it has upgraded with many parts. This is why I would suggest Dastana and Reinforcement (DM unfortunately) upgrades to chainmail. There is another upgrade as well, in oriental adventures, chair-tana or something like that, but it looks ugly. What these upgrades does, they incraese the armor value of chainmail by 1 each, and if you make them masterwork, they won't increase the ACP.
Light armor, with high dexterity bonus to AC, and has +6 armor value (more than breastplate). If this is not durable and light, I don't know what it is.

Blooded one: One of the best templates you can get as witcher. It can be attainable later on, requires fort saves, gives +2 str +4 con and combat reflexes, but takes -2 hit to INT. It is the best I could find to duplicate "Trail of Grasses". I usually keep my INT at 15 if I can afford it, and when I hit level 4 I go under the transformation, and level up my INT 1 more point, so it will be 14, therefore it won't effect my progression.

EDIT: As a final note, I would like to add this is not "optimized", I just tried it to be well built and as close as possible to witcher.

[Anlashok]

but those definitely does not sound "witcher".

how does a warrior-alchemist who specializes in using their knowledge and cunning to exploit the weaknesses in monsters to defeat them not sound at all witchery?

[Hal0Badger]

how does a warrior-alchemist who specializes in using their knowledge and cunning to exploit the weaknesses in monsters to defeat them not sound at all witchery?

Because alchemist is medium BAB, and Alchemy focused. Alchemy; eventhough it is used to create witchers; and signs, are "suplement" to witcher's ability to fight monsters, not their primary abilities. Plus, alchemist lack to specialize in monster, unlike a ranger, who has an ability called "Favored Enemy" and related feats, though I admit they are a bit lacking in numbers.

I am not saying alchemists cannot be monster hunters or whatnot, but rangers are simple "a lot better" for the theme "witcher".

Another thing I forgot to add, Rangers get track feat auto, a decent tool to identify or track monsters (especially if your DM allows roleplaying with the track).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Witchers rely on potions to match monsters in speed and strength. How is that incompatible with the Alchemist and its brother, the Investigator? Especially when you factor in archetypes like Internal Alchemist, Vivisectionist, and Relentless Inspector.

The latter class even beats Ranger for combat fluff: witchers know about all sorts of monsters, and Investigators get knowledge-y bonuses against even. Rangers are only good at fighting a few sorts of beasties. AND they have the skills to identify monsters, AND a bunch of combat options besides "I stab it a lot."

But that's all Pathfinder material, and the thread is about 3.5, I believe

[Keltest]

Because alchemist is medium BAB, and Alchemy focused. Alchemy; eventhough it is used to create witchers; and signs, are "suplement" to witcher's ability to fight monsters, not their primary abilities. Plus, alchemist lack to specialize in monster, unlike a ranger, who has an ability called "Favored Enemy" and related feats, though I admit they are a bit lacking in numbers.

I am not saying alchemists cannot be monster hunters or whatnot, but rangers are simple "a lot better" for the theme "witcher".

Another thing I forgot to add, Rangers get track feat auto, a decent tool to identify or track monsters (especially if your DM allows roleplaying with the track).

That isn't strictly accurate. Witchers come from several schools with varying emphasis in the importance of their skills. Witchers from the Viper School for example were extremely schooled in the Wild Hunt, while nobody else even really knew anything about it. The Wolf School, where Geralt came from, favored swordplay and medium armor. The cat school favored half-elven witchers who wore light armor and integrated archery into their combat styles.

There would almost certainly be witchers out there who set up a million traps, drank thirty potions, and did absolutely no swordwork as the traps killed everything around them.

[Morty]

Something to remember is that the games do not entirely gel with the books as far as portrayal of the witchers is concerned. In the books, witchers are swordsmen first, with alchemy and signs being supplemental. The games put a stronger emphasis on alchemy and magic for the sake of diversity. Also, the books only mention witcher schools other than Kaer Morhen very briefly. The TV series gives us more about other schools, but... we don't talk about that.

And yeah. Witchers' versatility interacts poorly with the tendency for D&D martial classes to be unable to tie their own shoelaces together outside combat.

[Blackhawk748]

Lots o' useful things

I like this, i like this a lot. Im a big fan of Rangers, and i need to find that alternate THF fighting style as thats awesome.

Edit: Yes this is 3.5

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like this, i like this a lot. Im a big fan of Rangers, and i need to find that alternate THF fighting style as thats awesome.

Edit: Yes this is 3.5
If all else fails, twf with a greatsword and armor spikes/unarmed strikes.

[Blackhawk748]

If all else fails, twf with a greatsword and armor spikes/unarmed strikes.

When in doubt....

[Hal0Badger]

I like this, i like this a lot. Im a big fan of Rangers, and i need to find that alternate THF fighting style as thats awesome.

Edit: Yes this is 3.5

The book is Legends&Lairs: Wildscape. It has several other style choices as well.

Personally, I like the pathfinder system more. But if it is not avaliable, this is a nice alternative, yet still 3rd party. Some dragon magazine also showed different styles for ranger, but cannot remember the issue or what they were.

For the record, all witchers rely on the sword, heavily. Wolf just emphasis on it more, with the addition of extreme knowledge of creatures.
You can easily see other witchers you have have encountered in the game, are no less than a master of sword as well, even if they come from different schools (like viper). This is also supplemented by the way that witchers always recognized: Cat-like eyes and "2 swords". The 2 swords thing is; one of the swords is not a supplement sword for two-weapon fighthing, like a short sword or japanese counter-part (wakanazi? cannot remember the part), but both swords are fit to be used alone, bastard swords or longswords to be more precise. Archery part, as far as I know, added by the game and "is supported by only crosbows", just a supplement to their main style.

[Keltest]

Something to remember is that the games do not entirely gel with the books as far as portrayal of the witchers is concerned. In the books, witchers are swordsmen first, with alchemy and signs being supplemental. The games put a stronger emphasis on alchemy and magic for the sake of diversity. Also, the books only mention witcher schools other than Kaer Morhen very briefly. The TV series gives us more about other schools, but... we don't talk about that.

And yeah. Witchers' versatility interacts poorly with the tendency for D&D martial classes to be unable to tie their own shoelaces together outside combat.

While the games are not quite canon with regards to the books, I believe the author was consulted when writing them. And even the books make it clear that while Geralt and the other wolf school witchers are fencers first and formost, that is because they, personally, and Vesemir in particular have a preference for fencing as a problem solver, not because of some universal rule that witchers are swordsmen first.

[Hal0Badger]

While the games are not quite canon with regards to the books, I believe the author was consulted when writing them. And even the books make it clear that while Geralt and the other wolf school witchers are fencers first and formost, that is because they, personally, and Vesemir in particular have a preference for fencing as a problem solver, not because of some universal rule that witchers are swordsmen first.

But witchers, are great with swords though, and that's quite universal. Let it be, viper school (Leto), or cat school (Gaetan), they always show mastery in the sword. And as I mentioned earlier, witchers are mostly recognized by their eyes or "2 sword on the back".
Traps or bombs maybe useful to hunt monster, but like it or not, 1 steel sword and 1 silver sword, is universal weapon of witchers.
Schools have different ways of teaching, since the guy who hunts witcher can easily recognize Ciri is trained at Kaer Morhen, but there is no such thing "trap-alchemy only no swords" witcher.

EDIT: Lets not get off-the-rail please. OP asked about ideas how to build something to "Geralt", so lets focus on that because I can use some ideas to improve my witcher build as well.

[Blackhawk748]

Thank for all the advice so far guys, its been helpful, heres the build im going with right now:

Azurin Undead Stalker Ranger 6
1. Power Attack, Favored Power Attack [Flaw]Travel Devotion, [Flaw] Education. FE: Undead (mandatory)
2. Two Handed Style: +1 Dodge bonus
3. Knowledge Devotion, Undead Smite (replaces Endurance)
4. Turn Undead, replaces Animal companion.
5. FE: Something, IDK yet, will probably up FE Undead
6. Whirlwind Attack, Brew Potion

Post 6 feats: Extra Favored Enemy, Jack of All Trades, Sword of the Arcane Order, Azure Emnity, Azure Turning, Azure Toughness, Bonus Essentia (gotta get those points :smalltongue:) Cobalt Charge, Cobalt Power, Improved Essentia Capacity, Incarnum Fortified Body (gonna get a ton of HP), Darkstalker, Wild Talent (for Psionic Focus), Imp Favored Enemy, Nemesis, Ghost Attack, Inquisitor, Open Minded, Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Greater Psionic Weapon, Speed of Thought, Psionic Charge

Total Essentia:7 (unless i take Bonus Essentia multiple times)

Skills:Hide, Move Silently, Knowldege Dungeoneering, Knowledge Nature, Knowlede Arcane, Listen, Spot, Survival

Stats (we use 78 straight buy)
Str 17
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 8

Since we get a +1 to 2 stats at lvl 4 i can up Str and Int and then undergo the Blooded One Ritual to bump me to Str 20 and Con 14 (my Dm should be fine with the Ritual, as it sounds cool and it isnt exactly easy.

So all im really missing is my second Favored Enemy, i'll probably have to see what we wind up fighting a lot, same with if i take Extra FE.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Could you take Sword of the Arcane Order at any point? You've got a good Int and a reason to use it, and it would open up a lot of options.

[Blackhawk748]

Could you take Sword of the Arcane Order at any point? You've got a good Int and a reason to use it, and it would open up a lot of options.

Totally forgot to put that in the Post 6 feats section. Thanks for the reminder.

[Eox]

I'm aware Pathfinder content isn't open to you, but its worth mentioning that the Alchemist class was inspired by the Witcher according to a few of the developers.

[Blackhawk748]

I'm aware Pathfinder content isn't open to you, but its worth mentioning that the Alchemist class was inspired by the Witcher according to a few of the developers.

https://media.giphy.com/media/PFwKHjOcIoVUc/giphy.gif

Not surprising, Bombs, potions, pretty good at self buffing.

[Hal0Badger]

Is it possible for you to get ACF; Arcane hunter?

Most of the creatures in the Witcher universe, well dangerous ones at least, have some sort of spell-like ability (katakans can turn invisible, bruxats can float, wraiths have some sort of teleportation, Fiends have a illusion abilities etc.), so getting Arcane Hunter would actually cover more areas, and more importantly makes sense.

With endurance, you can get stalwart determination, which adds your Con to your Will saves rather than Wis. This is also makes sense, because witchers, as hunters and super-humans, are more resistant to monster attacks.

For favored enemies, I would suggest Magical Beast and Monstrous Humanoid, they are the main income of a witcher :smallcool: .

[Blackhawk748]

Is it possible for you to get ACF; Arcane hunter?

Most of the creatures in the Witcher universe, well dangerous ones at least, have some sort of spell-like ability (katakans can turn invisible, bruxats can float, wraiths have some sort of teleportation, Fiends have a illusion abilities etc.), so getting Arcane Hunter would actually cover more areas, and more importantly makes sense.

With endurance, you can get stalwart determination, which adds your Con to your Will saves rather than Wis. This is also makes sense, because witchers, as hunters and super-humans, are more resistant to monster attacks.

For favored enemies, I would suggest Magical Beast and Monstrous Humanoid, they are the main income of a witcher :smallcool: .

I could, but then i wouldnt get Turn Undead, which i want so i can power my Devotion feats. Also FE Undead works for Witchers, as Drowners, Wraiths and several other creatures are technically dead.