Pathfinder the new generation

[PerfectShot]

Hey guys (although I'm addressing this message mostly to the writers of OOTS),
Pathfinder is pretty much awesome and has been improving ever since it came out.
My question is basically - why not move/switch OOTS from 3.5 edition to Pathfinder?
It has been done before from 3-3.5 as part of the plot as well, so why not change again? It would be super cool and change and add stuff.
I know OOTS has been through a lot and the story has become serious and all the "meta-talk" has been reduced significantly in favor of a more interesting and serious plot, but still I think it would be pretty amazing.

What's your opinion?

[Sir_Elderberry]

There's only one writer of OOTS, Rich Burlew, and he already is on record as regretting that the strip started with a 3.0 - > 3.5 joke. (You mention it happened "in the plot" but it didn't really happen as part of the ongoing series, it was the first thing done.) He's less interested in the rules jokes now, he isn't necessarily familiar with Pathfinder, and he's already on record as declining to update to 4e and to 5e.

[AvatarVecna]

OotS operates and has operated in a very well-defined world that (generally speaking) functions under the 3.5 rules; that said, the Giant (as far as I can gather from his thoughts on the subject) is that jokes/plot points related purely to game mechanics are not the focus because they don't usually help the story. Ignoring how changing the world to operate on Pathfinder rules wouldn't help the story one bit (since Pathfinder is functionally similar enough to 3.5 that such a change would mostly be pointless), there are a few key plot points that would have to be addressed and justified in-story, such as the sudden in-flux of new class abilities that were never heard of nor learned by the characters in-comic.

The change from 3.0 to 3.5 officially took place at the very beginning of the comic, making basically the whole comic take place in that edition (barring the offline prequel stuff); furthermore, 3.5 was a direct update of 3.0 from the same game-makers; Pathfinder is somebody else's take on a very similar system that has its roots in D&D 3.5, but is not D&D. While this draws a clear connection from Pathfinder to D&D, this does not immediately mean that D&D 3.5 naturally leads to Pathfinder. Hell, IIRC, there's some offline material where the OotS meets their 4e counterparts.

[Jasdoif]

The Giant specifically said (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/435646828290142208) he had no interest in being linked with Pathfinder, or any other intellectual property he doesn't own.

[factotum]

Even if he hadn't said that, I'd be with AvatarVecna--what would the point of such a change be? Pathfinder is functionally extremely similar to 3.5, and even if the Giant could find some additional rules jokes to mine in it, the effect would be dulled by half his audience never having played the system. Heck, I *still* don't understand half the jokes in the first strip, because I have no familiarity with 3.0 and don't know what the changes to 3.5 involved.

[Morty]

The biggest difference switching to Pathfinder would make is that V would be able to cast Teleport in a pinch, without relying on magic items. Which I believe is something the Giant does not want to happen. Most other differences between Pathfinder and 3.5 are details this comic ignores or glosses over.

I also continue to be amazed by the weight people ascribe to a joke that happened literally on the very beginning of the strip, and was mentioned maybe once since then.

[JohnTheSavage]

For the serious moments and plot, the actual rules and mechanics don't matter one whit.

For jokes and gags, the system matters maybe half a whit (and that's a BIG maybe), seeing as though the jokes aren't about D&D anymore. At least, not specifically. The jokes are about fantasy stories and gaming in general, not any specific system.

Plus, D&D 3.5's mechanics are easier to write jokes for anyway.

[Myou]

In addition to Rich not wanting to switch as previously explained, Pathfinder makes no sense as a choice to switch to - it's just 3.5 with a large set of houserules and homebrew. I'm not even convinced that it's actually an improvement on 3.5 in the first place.

[137beth]

Hey guys (although I'm addressing this message mostly to the writers of OOTS),
Pathfinder is pretty much awesome and has been improving ever since it came out.
A matter of opinion, so I won't argue with it.


My question is basically - why not move/switch OOTS from 3.5 edition to Pathfinder?

Because it would add nothing to the plot, and confuse both non-D&D players and casual players as to why everyone in OOTS is suddenly talking about an old car. Even though the Giant knows what PFRPG is, most of the comic's readers don't.

Also, since 'Pathfinder' is a trademarked name, it might require him to use the PF Compatibility License, which would be an additional legal restriction that he has no reason to take on. That might be part of what the Giant referred to when he said he wanted to avoid IP other than his own.

The biggest in-comic changes from switching to pathfinder would be
--V could now Teleport. That's not something the Giant wants, and it would need a really awkward explanation for people who'd never heard of PF.
--Xykon gets buffed through the roof, which doesn't really add to the story because he is already far more powerful than the Order, and so can't be defeated by pure fighting.
--Roy loses his Mage Slayer feat, rendering the entire process of Horace teaching it to him meaningless:smallsigh:
Most other changes are number boosts that wouldn't be shown.


It has been done before from 3-3.5 as part of the plot as well, so why not change again?
No, it never changed as part of the plot. It changed as a one-off gag that makes it more difficult for new readers to start OOTS.


It would be super cool and change and add stuff.

Whether it is 'super cool' is an opinion, so I won't argue with it. But it wouldn't add much if anything to the story.


What's your opinion?
Your idea is terrible, and I am comforted in the knowledge that the Giant won't use it.

In addition to Rich not wanting to switch as previously explained, Pathfinder makes no sense as a choice to switch to - it's just 3.5 with a large set of houserules and homebrew. I'm not even convinced that it's actually an improvement on 3.5 in the first place.
And not even all that large of a set of house rules--the actual changes in the core rules are smaller than many groups' house rules. PF's collection of homebrew is large (several books' worth), but it becomes much smaller once you realize that much of the 'new' content in pathfinder is actually copied from 3.5 sources and given renamings and rewordings to avoid legal trouble.
A relative 'advantage' in switching to pathfinder as opposed to switching to any other system is that because it is so similar, it will cause fewer plot-relevant changes (although, as noted earlier, it would have the detrimental effect of giving V teleportation abilities). However, that 'advantage' is only compared to switching to another game system--it's still not as good for the story as not switching rules systems at all.

[LuisDantas]

While I don't think it would be desirable to switch the comic to Pathfinder, and I never had any real experience with that system either, I expect it would have some discernible effects. From what I read it offers an impressive variety of character classes and (perhaps as a consequence) a touch of a steampunk feeling.

Steampunk is fine - we even had Tinkertown in the strip just a little while ago - but I don't think it fits the OOtS story particularly well (then again, for all I know the Giant decided that the story will be very much steampunk from now on).

But having dozens of new classes all of a sudden would be difficult to integrate in the story without it becoming either the main plot or a serious distraction. By this point it is clear that the Giant has his own ideas about the plot and no need nor strong desire to rely on the system's peculiarities to tell the story.

So I'm afraid that I don't see the upside of attempting such a switch even if the Giant had not already stated that he won't do it.

[littlebum2002]

While I don't think it would be desirable to switch the comic to Pathfinder, and I never had any real experience with that system either, I expect it would have some discernible effects. From what I read it offers an impressive variety of character classes and (perhaps as a consequence) a touch of a steampunk feeling.

Steampunk is fine - we even had Tinkertown in the strip just a little while ago - but I don't think it fits the OOtS story particularly well (then again, for all I know the Giant decided that the story will be very much steampunk from now on).

But having dozens of new classes all of a sudden would be difficult to integrate in the story without it becoming either the main plot or a serious distraction. By this point it is clear that the Giant has his own ideas about the plot and no need nor strong desire to rely on the system's peculiarities to tell the story.

So I'm afraid that I don't see the upside of attempting such a switch even if the Giant had not already stated that he won't do it.

Actually, to be totally honest, it might have been fun to have Tinkertown run on Pathfinder, but not the rest of the Stickverse. Other than that, though, I wouldn't want to have to wait through the tedium of sitting through some character explaining the rules minutiae differences between 3.5 and pathfinder.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Honestly, the reasons to not switch to 3.P are probably even better than not switching to 4 or 5. In addition to the reasons for not switching to those, you also gain very little by such a shift.

[Peelee]

Steampunk is fine - we even had Tinkertown in the strip just a little while ago - but I don't think it fits the OOtS story particularly well (then again, for all I know the Giant decided that the story will be very much steampunk from now on).

It's a foreign land. Having their own thing distinctly separate from other parts we've seen has helped the whole, "this place is foreign, abs this is how they do things here."

Like how Azure City had ninjas and samurai and whatnot.

Different, because the world is big and even though it's amedieval seeing, their god choose ninjas steampunk to be a thing.

Also, AvatarVecna put it best, for the OP question.