Fallout3 [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Erloas

2007-05-11, 09:11 AM

Nah, I've seen early screenshots from the game and they used the same system as in the two first ones. Unless the screenies lied to me, in which case I'll...I'll...I'll start a petition!

There are no screenshots that I'm aware of to even see. They have a couple pictures (concept art I believe, rather then anything in-game) on the main page but that and a few random dev posts on the offical forums is all that has been released for it.
If you've got a link to the pictures to verify that would be great, but it could be that they are from the van buren project that was started before the IP rights were sold to Beth.

Right now pretty much nothing has been said.

2007-05-11, 11:41 AM

Interesting, it would appear they've moved to the other side of the US. That looks like the capital building, and you can see the Washington Monument in the background.Probably the best way to avoid continuity issues with the previous games. Tactics did the same.

Anyway I'm not looking forward to Oblivion 2. Bethesda do have some excellent writers in house but they've consistently failed to create games with intriguing or engrossing dialogue or character interaction. Both Morrowind and Oblivion were little more than 3D hack n slash. Its a travesty that Bethesda got their hands on this license in the first place.

sobebop

2007-05-11, 11:50 AM

one time at band camp, *cough*
uh, anyway i was playing part 1 when it came out, so this was awhile back. i was playing around making different starting characters, different stat distributions.

I made a guy maxed out on luck. just to see... after about the first 20 mins of playing i had accuried the dog and a laser pistol from random encounters. i went on to pretty much own the game from jump street, haha!

what was that damn dog's name?!
dogmeat?

sobebop

2007-05-11, 12:17 PM

Probably the best way to avoid continuity issues with the previous games. Tactics did the same.

Anyway I'm not looking forward to Oblivion 2. Bethesda do have some excellent writers in house but they've consistently failed to create games with intriguing or engrossing dialogue or character interaction. Both Morrowind and Oblivion were little more than 3D hack n slash. Its a travesty that Bethesda got their hands on this license in the first place.

im leaning on the side of, "anything will be better than tactics" lol
i also hate to mention that anything will be better than nothing!

I havent had fun with a Bethesda game since Daggerfall. So im not setting the bar too high.

Dant

2007-05-11, 02:53 PM

Personally, I'm going to reserve judgment until the game comes out. Bethesda paid quite a pretty chunk of change for the license, I seriously doubt they're going to ignore what makes a Fallout game Fallout. They've already confirmed, through NMA I think it was, that the game will lose none of the grittiness.

Really, people are freaking out all over the place over this, it's kinda silly. Chill. We're getting Fallout 3, not Brotherhood of Steel.

Nibleswick

2007-05-14, 12:57 AM

Driderman

2007-05-14, 05:05 AM

This is something that I would allmost never do, but I think it is apropriate:

Maybe, you'll think of me
when you are all alone
maybe the one who is waiting for you
will prove untrue, then what will you do.
Maybe, Maybe, Maybe, Maybe...

I happen to think that the first two are some of the best RPGs out there. I hope that this lives up to them.

They are. In fact, I'm playing Fallout 2 right now and it's as brilliant as ever, even if I do know 95% of the game by heart and could complete it with my eyes closed.

But I think the sad fact is that Bethesda is NOT the people who made the two first Fallout games so great and no matter how hard they try, they'll probably not even come close to succeeding.
It might turn out to be a decent game, of course, but my advice to all Fallout fans would be to not get their hopes up. That way you can be pleasantly surprised instead of unpleasantly horrified

Telok

2007-05-14, 10:47 AM

We hope, yet we fear.

Some of us have long memories. We remember the time before the fallout, we remember the wasteland.

"This grave reserved for Finster", a free pass to Sleeper Base, pseudo-chitin armor and our trusty chainsaw. I still fear the Scorpitron, that sucker survived five LAW rockets and killed two of my best people.

Driderman

2007-05-14, 01:00 PM

Actually, I also have Wasteland installed on my computer and I would play it, were it not for mandtory PC-speaker sounds... :smalleek:

sobebop

2007-05-14, 02:20 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasteland_(computer_game)

i just threw out a few old PC games, wasteland was not one of them!

sobebop

2007-05-14, 02:23 PM

uh, what i meant to say...

this is a fallout thread only! lol. JK

every game is hit or miss. every game. i hold out as much hope that F3 will rock as i do for any new game release.

*in his best James Brown voice* hit
*in a normal somewhat dry tone* or miss

Logic

2007-05-14, 09:12 PM

But I think the sad fact is that Bethesda is NOT the people who made the two first Fallout games so great and no matter how hard they try, they'll probably not even come close to succeeding.
It might turn out to be a decent game, of course, but my advice to all Fallout fans would be to not get their hopes up. That way you can be pleasantly surprised instead of unpleasantly horrified

However, Bethesda is the company that made all of the Elder Scroll titles, and the recent Star Trek Games (Legacy, Encounter, Tactical Assault)

I think that they can do it justice.

Will it live up to expectations? Probably not, but that is probably due to such high expectations from it.

Will it be a decent game? Probably, since Bethesda does not have any stinkers (in my short memory.)

Erloas

2007-05-14, 11:51 PM

However, Bethesda is the company that made all of the Elder Scroll titles, and the recent Star Trek Games (Legacy, Encounter, Tactical Assault)

I think that they can do it justice.

Will it live up to expectations? Probably not, but that is probably due to such high expectations from it.

Will it be a decent game? Probably, since Bethesda does not have any stinkers (in my short memory.)

I'm not actually very familiar with Bethesda's work, but I've followed Fallout a fair amount. I did play Morrowind for a little while but I was never able to get into the game, I wasn't very impressed. A lot of the contention with Bethesda making Fallout 3 is not that the won't make a decent game, its that the game they make will be Fallout only in name.

Oblivion is the prime example, in that most people thought it was a pretty good game, but not if you defined it in terms of the previous ElderScrolls and as an RPG in general. That they set out to make the game specifically for the console first and the PC second and took out a lot of what made the previous games great so that it would be more fitting for the console market.

Also considering the horrible framerate/system requirements to play Oblivion on decent settings in outdoors areas it makes me dread what it would take to run Fallout 3 well since the vast majority of the game is based outside in wide open areas.

The hard to define areas of the game, and what makes Fallout Fallout are the tricky parts. Some people, I am one of them, think that Fallout won't be Fallout without a complex turn based/action point sort of skill system. The range of tactics, aimed shots, full control of team members, and other things that made the combat in Fallout really interesting to me will have to be drastically culled to get into a real-time system. Some people believe that turned based RPG combat is dead and will never come back, I think developers forgot the charm of the system when 3d and FPSs started taking off. Some people believe Fallout has to be in the isometric 2d sort of view. I believe it could look and work fantastic in a 3rd person full 3d environement. Some people think a mature, blood splatering rating is vital to Fallout, I personally think it will be overdone and loose some of the charm of the game for me. There is that fine balance between the gritty dangerous post apocolyptic world and the over the top optomistic and comical 50s propaganda that I think they will probably miss by overdoing the gore.

One thing I think will be missed is cultural references in the game. It seems the sort of thing that is often missed when anyone tries to remake a classic, if its a movie, game or anything else. They either go way over the top, way too frequently and way too obviously or they pretty much completely ignore it. (Biggest one I always remember is the endings to Twisted Metal 3 and 4 when it changed developers, the new deverlopers obviously had no clue at all as to how Calypso twists their wishes and they would just make up some random nonsense and think it was the same thing)

I'll be following Fallout 3 and I'm hoping for the best. I'll probably give it a try no matter what, but the little we have heard from the developers (been a couple days since I've checked) hasn't instilled any confidence in me about what we are actually going to end up with.

Shikton

2007-05-15, 03:34 AM

Erloas, you drastically lowered my expectations. I guess I should say thank you. I hate being disappointed, so this might help if the game turns out to be mediocre or less. :smalltongue: But I gotta add that I doubt they'll mess around too much with the gameplay. As for the story? Sure, they can mess up big time. Bugs? Can't possibly be MORE than in 1&2. So for now I'll wait patiently for the teaser. ^^

Driderman

2007-05-15, 05:33 AM

I believe the main problem lies with the fact that Bethesda makes generic 'cookie-cutter' RPGs. I played Daggerfall, I played Morrowind and both had that feel that you were put in a large world where every single NPC was the same cardboard figure, just with different faces. Hardly any unique dialogue, even the dialogues with plot-specific NPCs amounted to nothing more than 'You must go this point, kill stuff and get an item, then bring it back' with no possibility of making your own choices in any quest, except for yes/no.
This is very different from Blackisle's approach where every single NPC is a unique person in its own rights. You could affect the world with every single choice you made, as opposed to the very static worlds of Bethesda.
You really got the feeling that Blackisle had cared for their work, I mean, even NPCs that didn't have dialogues and just responded when you clicked them were unique.

As for what makes Fallout Fallout:

The gritty, postapocalyptic world.
The mature PG rating
The dark, dark humor.
The easter eggs
The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system.

Do it 3D, do it 2D, do it 1st person, 2nd or 3rd, isometric or whatnot, turnbased or realtime, doesn't really matter to me. Honestly I'd rather have Bethesda re-invent Fallout just a tiny bit, after all, it's supposed to be a sequel, not a remake. Still, it would pretty ballsy if they actually dared to make it turnbased:smallsmile:

Note on Fallout2: Anyone ever become Captain of the Guard in Vault City?

Shikton

2007-05-15, 05:52 AM

Note on Fallout2: Anyone ever become Captain of the Guard in Vault City?

Nah, never managed to. Reason? Bug.

Nibleswick

2007-05-15, 04:39 PM

Note on Fallout2: Anyone ever become Captain of the Guard in Vault City?

I didn't know you could do that, I have to play it again now!:smallbiggrin:

Erloas

2007-05-15, 04:55 PM

I think the most important thing Bethesda needs to remember is that they have to make a game that the existing Fallout fans will like and will still consider Fallout. They spent about $5 million on the Fallout license so that is a fair amount of money to spend on purchasing a name. Fallout doesn't hold any meaning to "casual"/new/console gamers and Bethesda really needs to remember that.

Not only have they purchased the name, but also the expectations for the game. If they don't create a game that the existing fans recognize and know then they have pretty much wasted their money. If they wanted a post-apocalyptic world to make an FPS in they could have made their own world, or purchased something like Mad Max which has a noteriaty that is probably bigger overall, outside of the old school PC RPG players, then Fallout and they wouldn't have had to worry about matching the expectations of the players. Same with any other huge changes of the systems. They seem to be leaving the west and heading east to areas completely unknown to the Fallout world. Humor, rating, and general RPG mechanics are not the sort of thing that can be copyrighted and could just as easily be done in a game that is just a "spiritual successor" to Fallout, one that wouldn't require the purchase of the license. They don't have the market cornered on Post-apocalyptic either.

So really unless Bethesda is planning on making a true sequal to Fallout then their purchase doesn't make any sense. A sequal is not the same as a rework either, since the story and the characters will change. So they had better make a game that is more then just Fallout in name and apperence, they need to make a game that is Fallout through and through where no one can question if the game is a true sequal to the originals. Personally I don't think a first person, non-turn based system can do that.

Driderman

2007-05-15, 06:37 PM

I didn't know you could do that, I have to play it again now!:smallbiggrin:

I just found out yesterday myself :smallsmile:
Trick is to suck up BIGTIME to Lynette and do all the NCR/Bishop/Vault City quests
You need to solve the Gecko situation properly and not tell her the details, then you need to find the raiders and show her the account book and you need to find the holodisk in John Bishops safe and bring it to her as well, then do what she says
And when I say suck up bigtime I mean really bigtime. Be polite, always call her first Citizen, don't ask any inappropriate questions etc. I read a walkthrough that suggested that you initiate dialogue with her 15+ times and select all the humble, polite, respectful answers repeatedly. Apparently there's some sort of 'respect-o-meter' that fills everytime you act nice to her. And you have to be REAL nice

2007-05-16, 05:15 AM

However, Bethesda is the company that made all of the Elder Scroll titles, and the recent Star Trek Games (Legacy, Encounter, Tactical Assault)Which is what worries me. The Elder Scrolls were good games in their own rights but proper Fallout-style RPGs they were not. Bethesda can write interesting backstories and dot their worlds with readable novels, but they have yet to put together a dialogue or NPC interaction system worth a damn.

Tom_Violence

2007-05-16, 07:28 AM

Which is what worries me. The Elder Scrolls were good games in their own rights but proper Fallout-style RPGs they were not. Bethesda can write interesting backstories and dot their worlds with readable novels, but they have yet to put together a dialogue or NPC interaction system worth a damn.

Couldn't agree more. That's my exact problem with the idea of Bethesda doing Fallout 3. Maybe I'm just being overly sceptical here, but I'm just imagining something very much along the lines of another Elder Scrolls game but with superficial differences in textures and whatnot. I don't want a pretty shiny game like Morrowind and Oblivion were. I want something gritty and violent, with the ability to talk to people! And by god I do not want something first person.

Driderman

2007-05-16, 09:11 AM

Couldn't agree more. That's my exact problem with the idea of Bethesda doing Fallout 3. Maybe I'm just being overly sceptical here, but I'm just imagining something very much along the lines of another Elder Scrolls game but with superficial differences in textures and whatnot. I don't want a pretty shiny game like Morrowind and Oblivion were. I want something gritty and violent, with the ability to talk to people! And by god I do not want something first person.

Personally, I might find it interesting to play Fallout as a real-time firstperson game, it's not as if the combat system in Fallout I & II is particularily fantastic... As long as you still have weapon skills that improve your to hit and critical chances and whatnot, i wouldn't mind.
But yes, the dialogues, the indepthness, thats what worries me cause Bethesda has never produced anything as immersive as Fallout and I fear they won't this time eihter

Erloas

2007-05-16, 09:58 AM

Personally, I might find it interesting to play Fallout as a real-time firstperson game, it's not as if the combat system in Fallout I & II is particularily fantastic... As long as you still have weapon skills that improve your to hit and critical chances and whatnot, i wouldn't mind.

Personally I found the combat in Fallout I&II to be great. It wasn't high action, but it wasn't supposed to be either. It was very tactical though, and anymore I choose tactics over action now, at least in RPGs. The problem with making it first person and real time is that then many gamers will expect it to act like an FPS and if you aim at a persons head you had better do head shot damage. Which of course turns the game into a twitch based game and not an RPG and it is a system that makes it exceptionally hard to make stats and skills, at least in combat, mean anything at all. Essentially taking the RPG aspect out of the combat, which is a complaint I heard about Oblivion though I haven't played it myself.

While I think they could make a good FPS, or first person action game (what many seem to claim Oblivion is, rather then an RPG) based on the Fallout world, it should not be Fallout 3. They have the rights to make any non MMO Fallout games they want. So they should make Fallout 3 what Fallout 3 should be, the successor to Fallout 1 and 2, and if/when they make their first person action/FPS Fallout game then they can call it something else. Much like Fallout Tactics was not Fallout 3. Or how games like Might and Magic have a Heros RPG version and a strategy version of the same world.

Shikton

2007-05-16, 10:02 AM

Dant

2007-05-16, 10:19 AM

Personally I found the combat in Fallout I&II to be great. It wasn't high action, but it wasn't supposed to be either. It was very tactical though, and anymore I choose tactics over action now, at least in RPGs. The problem with making it first person and real time is that then many gamers will expect it to act like an FPS and if you aim at a persons head you had better do head shot damage. Which of course turns the game into a twitch based game and not an RPG and it is a system that makes it exceptionally hard to make stats and skills, at least in combat, mean anything at all. Essentially taking the RPG aspect out of the combat, which is a complaint I heard about Oblivion though I haven't played it myself.

This game already exists. It is called STALKER. Bethesda is not stupid, they will not simply remake that game. Additionally, they currently own the total rights to Fallout. All of it. Even the MMO, they purchased them a few months ago I believe. They are perfectly aware that if the game they make is not Fallout, they will not be able to sell any other Fallout games, thus rendering the millions of dollars spent on the IP and making the actual game wasted. The end result would be a net loss. I don't think they are flat out stupid enough to have that occur.

Erloas

2007-05-16, 11:03 AM

This game already exists. It is called STALKER. Bethesda is not stupid, they will not simply remake that game. Additionally, they currently own the total rights to Fallout. All of it. Even the MMO, they purchased them a few months ago I believe.
I remember very specifically that the license they bought was for all versions of Fallout except the MMO, that Interplay keep the licensing rights to any MMO or online only version of Fallout.

They are perfectly aware that if the game they make is not Fallout, they will not be able to sell any other Fallout games, thus rendering the millions of dollars spent on the IP and making the actual game wasted. The end result would be a net loss. I don't think they are flat out stupid enough to have that occur.

I hope you are right. Though I'm not going to just assume that they are aware of this and are going to not let that occur. We've seen more then enough developers do very stupid things and ruin games that I'm not giving them the benifit of the doubt on common sense anymore. All too often developers think they know what players want more then the players do.

Even though Oblivion sold really well, everything I've heard from the Elder Scroll fans (of which I'm not) was that while Oblivion was a pretty good game, they changed so much from the other games that it was hardly Elder Scrolls anymore.

Driderman

2007-05-17, 09:20 AM

As far as I know, they didn't buy the rights for the MMO. Of course, it may have changed now but I doubt it.

As for making a RP-ish realtime firstperson combat? Try Deus Ex. It works. I hear Vampire Bloodlines somewhat succeeds at it at well...

Sereneprophet

2007-05-17, 09:49 AM

Id love to see a new Deus EX, cause the first one is just gotten ugly..(again im a 3D graphics w***** at least with stuff that far back.

As for Fallout 3. I personally think no matter what Bethesda does, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO B**** like crazy. Just because of how fanboy alot of Fallout fans seem to be.

Me, im not going into it expecting much more than a pretty, fun, post apocalyptic FPRG. Im not going to expect it to be on par with either of the first two, i'm not even expecting the dialogs to be as humorous or tongue in cheek. I do hope that Bethesda does exceptionally well on this, especially with the text and text options (no ring around the rosy as I like to call the oblivion thing) but I cant say im expecting it.

I do think they will do a decent job on the humor. May not be as great as 1 or 2, but I think in this regard people are giving Bethesda very little confidence. I know one of the writers is the guy who did the Dark Brotherhood quests, which were one of if not the best quests in Oblivion, and its not just the Oblivion team moving on to this, there are new members, members that arnt there, etc.

I tend to stay away from to many forums on the topic, cause they frankly scare me :P.

Ill just wait and see, and hope for the best, but not expect greatness, because that way, should it not be up to the high standards everyone wants it to be, I wont feel let down or pissed, ill be able to load it up, play it, and have some fun, just like with Oblivion (Which has its flaws, but I didn't expect to much out of it, besides a bit longer and more involved main quest.)

But again, I can be fairly easy to please so long as there isn't something in my RPG that makes me go, ZOMG WTH IS THIS HERE NUBS! GET THIS CRAP OUT OF MY RPG!.

I dont actually say that, but you get the idea.

Erloas

2007-05-18, 09:55 AM

I think Bethesda can do some decent things with the game. I'm giving them the benifit of the doubt on quest writing and atmosphere. They seem to have done a decent job on telling stories too.
It is the mechanics that I'm worried about mostly. Not that mechantics are more important then story, but that I think they can get the story right so I'm not really worried about it.

I also have no problem if they take the Fallout IP and make other types of games for it. I have no problem with them making a first person action RPG, or an FPS Fallout, I just don't think they should call it Fallout 3. Fallout 3 should be the successor in more then just name to Fallout 1 and 2. When they decided to make Fallout Tactics and decided they were going to move away from what Fallout 1 and 2 were, they named it Fallout Tactics, not Fallout 3. If Bethesda decides to make a Fallout game that isn't what Fallout 3 should be then they shouldn't name it Fallout 3.

sobebop

2007-05-18, 01:19 PM

Opinion, opinion never changes. Before the great opinion, there was the resource war during witch fanboys disbanded. A plague rendered the boards paranoid, and Bethesda was annexed.

Maybe.

sobebop

2007-06-02, 09:49 PM

3 days!

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/

edit. well, for the teaser anyway. im loving the art work.

Elidyr

2007-06-03, 12:44 AM

Well, when a game company like Obsidian, with so many people that actually developed the classics like Baldurs gate and Fallout releases such a poor attempt at a game like Neverwinter nights, I have such low expectations for Bethesda that FO3 sucking wont surprise me at all.

sobebop

2007-06-05, 10:24 AM

will not suprise me either Elidyr... but at least there will be a game to base the judgements on.

one day or so till the teaser! you can pretend not to be excited... but deep down i know you are. deep down in the vault, there is a dweller who is giddy like a school girl. ahahahha, ok maybe not. ;P

Krellen

2007-06-05, 02:03 PM

As for making a RP-ish realtime firstperson combat? Try Deus Ex. It works. I hear Vampire Bloodlines somewhat succeeds at it at well...
Bloodlines is an excellent RPG - but that's despite the combat, not in part thanks to it. Bloodline's FPS-style combat is ugly and twitchy, and oft-times more aggravating than fun. The highest combat parts - a sewer crawl to reach the Nosferatu Warrens and a sweep through a ruined hotel to rid the city of Sabbat - are, as far as I'm concerned, the worst parts of the game. The "boss battles" against Ming-Xiao and the Sheriff are none-too-impressive either, and would have been better left out.

Of course, Bloodline's large saving grace is the many experience rewards - and in-game material rewards, as well! - for accomplishing your quests without violence. Even when your quest is to blow something up, doing it without killing still nets an experience bonus.

bosssmiley

2007-06-05, 02:14 PM

t00t

and I HAVE a good enough comp! =D This is gonna rooooooock!

"I's in yer Norway, ganking yer Compootar." :smallwink:

I so would though, just to play that game on release day (current PC would choke and die under the strain :smallfrown: ). And there's not a jury alive would convict me for stealing yours either:

"In his defence M'lud, the talking egg claims he needed to steal the computer to play "Fallout 3". An open and shut case. I move that we fine the plaintiff 200lbs of fish for bringing this groundless action." :smallbiggrin:

Here's hoping we have some play in a devastated NYC. :smallcool:

Erloas

2007-06-05, 02:40 PM

I wasn't really impressed with the trailer because it didn't really tell us anything at all. Its nice to know they can pretty much copy the look and sound of the first ones, but it doesn't tell us anything else. I've been assuming they would be able to make it look retro-futuristic, I figured they would get the atmopshere down, and thats all that the trailer showed us. It didn't give any information of the sort I'm interested in.

sobebop

2007-06-05, 03:42 PM

i still cant see the trailer, the site is blocked at my work...
but i will check it out when i get home tonight.

Erloas really loves it, just doesnt want to hype it up! hahaha

ray53208

2007-06-10, 10:15 PM

when i saw the teaser trailer i had a nerdgasm. i am SO there.

Shikton

2007-06-11, 04:04 AM

Agreeing with Erloas here. The teaser didn't tease me. Left me kind of indifferent.

madfool2

2007-06-11, 04:58 AM

I am quite excited by this game (and recently, that hasn't been possible), if Fallout 3 is a good game (even if all the fanboys claim it sucks), then i'll be happy as hell it exists.

Tekar

2007-06-11, 08:29 AM

I am quite excited by this game (and recently, that hasn't been possible), if Fallout 3 is a good game (even if all the fanboys claim it sucks), then i'll be happy as hell it exists.
Come on, what do we even know about the game? We saw some fancy cutscenes, how on earth can you be exited, there's nothing to be exited over yet.

Erloas

2007-06-11, 09:32 AM

I am quite excited by this game (and recently, that hasn't been possible), if Fallout 3 is a good game (even if all the fanboys claim it sucks), then i'll be happy as hell it exists.

The biggest question most Fallout fans have is not if the game is going to be good or not, it is if it is going to be Fallout or not. If it is true to Fallout it has to be good. If they decide to something completely different with the game then we'll just have to see if it ends up good or not.
There is a lot of room in the RPG arena for a good RPG that is nothing like Fallout, and Bethsda can definately do that. What we want to know is if what they can do is actually Fallout and not just a completely new post-apocolyptic game with the Fallout name stuck on it.

There are a lot of fans that also say it is perfectly fine if Bethsda makes a Fallout game that doesn't follow the first two fairly, but that game should not be called Fallout 3. If they want to do something else then call it Fallout: And now for something completely different, and don't try to claim it is Fallout 3.

Morty

2007-06-11, 11:25 AM

The problem isn't that Fallout 3 can look different to first two games. The problem is, it may look like Oblivion, which isn't cRPG and is frankly quite boring.

Hades

2007-06-17, 11:54 PM

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36877&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Yep. Oblivion with guns. Looks like it might be an interesting game, but it is not Fallout.

"You'll be able to hire followers who might help you out in a fight, but it's definately not a party based game."

"Fallout 3 can be played in either a first person camera view, or panned back to an over-the-shoulder third person angle not unlike the one offered in Resident Evil 4."

Fallout 3. As if millions of gamers suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Logic

2007-06-18, 12:08 AM

Son of a...

I take back any praise that I said, claiming that Bethesda knew what they were doing, and were not going to just make it Oblivion with guns.

This game may be fun, and may be set in the Fallout Universe, but it is in no way Fallout.

Hades

2007-06-18, 12:11 AM

his game may be fun, and may be set in the Fallout Universe, but it is in no way Fallout.

Exactly. The game itself looks rather interesting, but not at all like Fallout. Try this. Imagine that in the screenshots instead of the blue jumpsuits, everybody has grey ones. Ignore all the random Vaultboys that don't really seem to fit. Now what do we have? Something that might be decent, but I would never guess Fallout.

NEO|Phyte

2007-06-18, 12:11 AM

Actually, pretty much everywhere I've heard that being talked about OTHER than NMA (which is pretty much 1 other forum, and now your post(s)) seems to have no real issues with what is in that magazine.

Mind you, we apparently aren't TRUE FANS, like they are. :smallsigh:

:edit: seriously, I read through that thread when I first got linked to it, its insane. It sounds like pretty much the only thing that would make them happy is if FO3 was pretty much FO1

Hades

2007-06-18, 12:18 AM

...seems to have no real issues with what is in that magazine.

Which I find sad. And also your apparent critique of my disliking the fact that a series of which I am inordinately fond and which has marked my development as a gamer is being distorted beyond almost all recognition. All indications from the article point towards the Fallout name being used as a draw for consumers and barely more than that, which I find is a troubling and depressing commentary on the nature of the game industry.

NEO|Phyte

2007-06-18, 02:22 AM

Which I find sad. And also your apparent critique of my disliking the fact that a series of which I am inordinately fond and which has marked my development as a gamer is being distorted beyond almost all recognition. All indications from the article point towards the Fallout name being used as a draw for consumers and barely more than that, which I find is a troubling and depressing commentary on the nature of the game industry.
Well, at least you aren't (openly) wishing Bethseda would die in a fire, like some of the people from the linked NMA thread. Having just finished reading the new batch of pages since my previous browsing of the thread, it looks like there are some more of the 'not liking what they see, but not going for pitchforks just yet' than the first ~22 pages, but still loads of the ones that just make me want to facepalm.

As for my personal opinion regarding all this, I don't particularly have one. I played Fallout, enjoyed it, beat it, started again, ran around killing stuff with the Bloody Mess trait, possibly beat it again (with the power armor this time around), most certainly found a character editor and ran around as an unstoppable juggernaught of death (Yay for every hit being critical! Just needs luck 10 and a pair of perks), but reading through those scans, Fallout 3 just sounds somewhat interesting to me. Not some sort of horrible sacrilege, or the holy grail of Fallout sequels. Just... interesting.

I probably picked up Fallout far beyond the stage where I'd get the special bond thingy that you people seem to have. That or apathy, which is probably also why I'm sitting here wondering just how the hell people can get so worked up over a game. Either way, We'll see how it goes as more info comes out. Hopefully the article isn't a true sign of things to come, and you may yet find it to be a proper Fallout game.

Heck, maybe it will turn out to be Fallout-enough for the NMA people to at least not be utterly hateful towards it, I'm sure wierder stuff has happened in the history of the universe.

Finally, if stuff fails to make sense, I'm tired and am going to be going to sleep after posting this.

Beleriphon

2007-06-18, 02:37 AM

I think the question ultimately comes down figuring out if Fallout games are about the atmosphere, or the game engine. If its the game engine then any third person isometric RPG is exactly like Fallout, if its the atmosphere then Fallout is Fallout since no other game quite captures that particular feel.

I expect that Bethseda will acquit themselves very well in the style department. I expect Fallout 3 to look and sound like Fallout. I'm not so attached to the third person isometric view that a first person Fallout 3 would bug me that much so long as it is the successor to the story, style and feeling that Fallout and Fallout 2 evoked.

Hades

2007-06-18, 08:28 AM

...but reading through those scans, Fallout 3 just sounds somewhat interesting to me. Not some sort of horrible sacrilege, or the holy grail of Fallout sequels. Just... interesting.

Excellent post. I know I came off a little strong in the opening one there, heh. Anyway, I do think the game looks interesting, and perhaps even enjoyable, just not very much like Fallout, and I wish Bethesda had perhaps tried to create their own setting rather than messing with the the retro-future of Fallout. But it is still early, perhaps positive changes will be made.

I think the question ultimately comes down figuring out if Fallout games are about the atmosphere, or the game engine.

I expect that Bethseda will acquit themselves very well in the style department. I expect Fallout 3 to look and sound like Fallout.

I think that the games are about both. The atmosphere, setting, and tone of the games are of course huge, but the Fallout games have also always been at heart true role-playing games (originally going to be based on GURPS, which would have been awesome), with a party based dynamic though you start out alone. You start losing some of the Fallout feel if you can't get shot in the back at point blank range by a party member using an auto shotgun cause he can't wait for you to get out of the way.

Unfortunately, after the screens and mechanics described in the article (GTA style radio? Yes, The Ink Spots and others froms the 40s and 50s are fantastic, but so too was the ambient music from before), it doesn't seem like Fallout 3 will really look or sound like Fallout.

Ah well. I think I've gone from righteous outrage to resigned melancholy.

Dragor

2007-06-18, 09:09 AM

Here's hoping Bethesda get it right- I am a fan of their work, and I'm one of the people who 'loved Oblivion' (and no, I'm not a casual gamer.). Fallout will be an interesting license for them to work with, and they should know that Fallout fans are going to relying on them to produce the world they love.

Ceres

2007-06-18, 01:45 PM

From the magazine:

"Unlike Oblivion, Fallout 3 does not scale your encounters to fit your current level."

"Whatever your choices, every aspect of character creation is based firmly in the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system [...] it's impossible to create a maxed out superhero."

"Most of your experience points in the game come from completing quests. Grinding for experience just isn't that useful"

Well, there goes my three biggest fears about Fallout 3 right out the window :smallbiggrin: Now I'll give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt when it comes to atmosphere and story until we know more about the game. Man, am I relieved.

I'll keep adding if I find more cool stuff :smallsmile:

[Edit:]
"The Vault Tech Assisted Tarheting System (V.AT.S.) is what assures that this first-person game so chock full of guns doesn't become an FPS. "We don't want to be rewarding Twich play" Howard says. "It's not an action game, it's a role-playing game. [...] V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select targets at their leisure. Once targeted a zoomed in view of the creature will show all the places you could aim to hit the creature, and the percentage chance you'll succeed. [...] You'll have a set number of action-points, largely based on your agility score"

Yey!

"Bethesda hesitantly confirms there will be a dog in the game"

Dogmeat returns!

"the scene will play out in slow motion, with the camera circling armound the bullet as it whizzes through the air only to tear into a mutant's leg as it explodes in a haze of blood"

Good times :smallsmile:

"Rolling out onto the main platform, its tin can voice intones: "Tickets, please." As the mutants outside laughs and threaten to tear its puny arms off, the bot decides they must not have tickets, and opens fire with its laser cannon"

Seems like they'll retain the dark humour.

"Even within the quests we're trying to be careful to not just have the good path and the evil path, because a big part of Fallout is shades of gray"

Couldn't agree more.

"Fallout 3 has a far more defined narrative structure than many previous Bethesda games [...] you will reach a definitive end to the story"

Keep getting better and better :smallwink:

Man there are so many things in this article (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36877&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0) that has helped me regain my faith in Fallout 3. I suggest any sceptic should read it through. Now the problem will be to lower my expectations again, so I'll be pleasantly surprise. Come on, sceptics! Throw your worst at me! :smallbiggrin:

Shikton

2007-06-18, 06:03 PM

This is exactly what I feared. Dumbass Bethesda went and drastically changed the engine. I'll get the game, but I fear I'll hate it. How the Frank's Utters Can Kick did they come up with changing the engine around that much? That's beyond me, and an insult to the fanbase of the game imo.

Erloas

2007-06-18, 10:26 PM

I don't think the engine is nearly as important as the mechanics, which are not really the same thing.
The whole isometric thing isn't necessary at all, and that really was a relic of the time frame. However the mechanics of the system itself is vitally important. The turn based mechanics, the targetting mechanics, the action points and weapon usage mechanics are important.

A first person perspective isn't a big deal so long as the system it is done with can still be completely played in a 3rd person perspective.

I'm still very skeptical of what the final product will be, but so far this most recent information has not worsened my opinion of what they are doing.

Morty

2007-06-19, 03:57 AM

Morrandir

2007-06-19, 07:35 AM

Hm. Reading up on all this, the Fallout series looks pretty good. Any idea where I can manage to lay my hands on FO1 and/or 2?

Then, after playing around with it, I can join in with praise, followed by griping, with more praise afterwards, then finishing with a mildly concerned hope.

Tekar

2007-06-19, 02:51 PM

Honestly, I don't belive them. Call me skeptical, but I've heard their promises about Oblivion and what we got now? Average RPG wannabe that gets boring after two weeks. So I'm rather pessimistic about their promises that dialogues, choices etc.
Indeed, but they have managed to pick my interest none the less. Altough I will remain very sceptiacal and will await player reviews before buying it because of how they messed up their own franchise with Oblivion.

Dragor

2007-06-19, 03:27 PM

Honestly, I don't belive them. Call me skeptical, but I've heard their promises about Oblivion and what we got now? Average RPG wannabe that gets boring after two weeks. So I'm rather pessimistic about their promises that dialogues, choices etc.

True, they did not keep their promises on the Oblivion front, especially in *COUGH* Radiant AI *COUGH*. But, every company messes up at some point. Maybe they tried something new and they failed.

But there's hope for Fallout 3. Keep the faith, brothers and sisters of the G.E.C.K :smalltongue:

Beleriphon

2007-06-19, 08:48 PM

True, they did not keep their promises on the Oblivion front, especially in *COUGH* Radiant AI *COUGH*. But, every company messes up at some point. Maybe they tried something new and they failed.

But there's hope for Fallout 3. Keep the faith, brothers and sisters of the G.E.C.K :smalltongue:

And will lead us, the people of Gecko to freedom. It is I, Gordon of Gecko, that shall lead us to promised land of capitalism, for my friends: Greed is Good.

One of the better NPCs that get the reference.

Falkus

2007-06-19, 09:35 PM

Well, if NMA hates the game, then I'll not only buy it, but do everything possible in my power to ensure its popularity.

Brianish

2007-06-22, 09:59 PM

Really? Cuz they also hate Brotherhood of Steel.

sobebop

2007-06-23, 11:51 PM

for me daggerfall was one of those "games" it sucked me in and it made me fall in love with the elder scroll line.

imo morrowind sucked and i didnt bother with oblivion. as has been stated, perhaps bethesda just f'd up with the elder scroll line. it happens.

they are not starting from sq one with F3, they actually went out and spent a ton of cash for the rights to a brand. what im trying to say is they really set themselves back, bethesda is in a hole. starting at sq one would be less risky imo. they are at sq one minus millions... (5.75 mil to be exact)

they have a good shot at getting it right, and the future success of their company may very well depend on it!