Hearthstone 13: Inspire: Shuffle Meta

[Zevox]

Edit: We are preparing to run a Challengestone tournament for GitP players! Sign-up sheet is here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cgk9yfQkuf6QP3o_FH2wsh31i_DQrzCkVeW9RTDwiL8/edit#gid=0), rules are to be revealed on Friday, November 13th, and the tournament begins that weekend!

Welcome to thirteenth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernoxethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AnarionAnarion55#1254
AntonokAntonok#1704
AnxeGoCorral#1879
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Dancing OwlbearOwlbear#1586
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
Duck999Duck999#1349
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1486
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
GAADGAAD#1126
GaelbertSamHouston#1563
GamerlordGamerlord#1612
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GanorenasGanorenas#1457
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
GrytormGrytorm#1777
HamsteTheorules#1234
Haruspex_PariahHaruspexPari#1254
HatevahHatevah#1405
HircineIllusiveMan#1616
jindra34JinRia #1770
JohnjimcoJohnJimco#1482
KarohtKaroht#1505
KishGrazzt#1417
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Landis963Landis963#1789
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
Lunix VandalLunixVandal#1952
MacGiollaMacGiolla#1982
MathMageMathMage#1797
MCerberusMCerberus#1734
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
Mystic MuseNSFJunkblade#1400
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
Neriractorneriractor#1483
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
otakuryogaScootaloo#1471
Pokonicpokonic#1166
QwertystopQwertystop#1897
r2d2gor2d2go#1262
RosstinRosstin#1609
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
ShishnarfneGruschenka#1375
SholosVeebeebee#1383
Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Tesla_pastateslapasta#1973
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The Hellbugthehellbug#1216
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
UserCloneUserClone #1545
VolatarVolatar#1750
YanaRaltis#1807
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522
ZmekJadeReaver #1783


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Aran ThuleAranThule#2780
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
boomwolfBoomWolf#1169
DadaScrattlebear#2863
D-naras Dinos #2811
Epinephrine_SynSilverSeraph #2931
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Frog DragonVasemmasti#2618
FyreByrdFyreByrd#2962
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GolemsVoiceCrazyCat#29897
HewhosaysfishHeWhoSezFish#2503
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866
Infernally ClayWinny#1904
JormengandTrianna#2529
LionheartLionheart#2440
MurmaiderMurmaider#2273
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SianSian#2690
SilfirSilfir#2863
SlyGuyMcFlySlGuyMcFly#2562
TokayTokay#2518
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716
WraithIllusionist#2224
XianderXiander#2814

[Corlindale]

Well, I ended up crafting Confessor Paletress and she is indeed fun to play. VERY swingy, though.

On my first game I gambled and played her on 7, just because I was eager to try her out. The enemy promptly dropped Sylvanas + Reincarnate and stole her. The opponent now has 5 guys out (Sylvanas, Confessor and three weak totems), I play two Mind Control Techs and luckily get her back with the second one. After all that drama, what does she finally give me? Tinkmaster Overspark...

I forgave her when she gave me Malygos in the second game (while I was holding a Holy Nova), though :-)

[Landis963]

I don't know who to play in this Tavern Brawl.

On your first turn you get 1 mana like normal, but then you get 3, then 5, then 7, and so on.

[Jormengand]

The brawl is fun, I'll say. Dropping some Duplicates and Thaurissan to give me Antonidas at 6 and four Sorcerer's Apprentices at 1 was fun to say the least.

[Anarion]

I just realized I'm not on the OP list, though I've been playing off and on since the game came out.

My battle.net username is Anarion55#1254

[Joran]

Edit: btw, the best hand on the play includes a mana wyrm, a cheap spell and sorcerer's apprentice, so you can either pressure if the other person plays nothing or kill their drop and pump the mana wyrm. The best hand with the coin is, I think, mad scientist+coin. The deck has one major early tension, which is whether you drop stuff quickly turns 1-3 to pump a mana wyrm or get something out, or whether you hold as much as possible for turns 4-5 to try and make a flamewaker play. I find it hard to decide which is right at present.

I always struggle with the early mulligans for Tempo Mage. It sucks so hard to keep the mana wyrm and then not pick up one of the early spells to buff it.

Mad Scientist is almost always a keep for me though. The Mirror Entity is pretty strong and it challenges usual 2 drops.

I had the dream start though yesterday against a priest. I kept Mana Wyrm + Unstable Portal.

Turn 1: Mana Wyrm (no answer)
Turn 2: Unstable Portal (no answer)
Turn 3: Murlock Knight + Hero Power + Old Murk-Eye (concede)

[Surrealistik]

Another deck made mostly from free/starter trash and aggro picks salvaged from my Druid deck that has been way more successful than it has any right to:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/322027-plebeian-trash-priest-deck

Wins on the basis of massive card advantage and generally flooding the field, protecting VIPs behind Taunt walls that are Power World Shielded as is expedient (or PWS the Acolytes so they can trade/self-damage more stuff without dying). Holy Nova to clear out and get massive draw as needed. 1 drops trade out the really annoying/nasty combo starters that come out early, and help keep aggro in check. Bet it would be **** in ranked, but it holds up in cazuls. Surprised the hell out of me by never losing vs the Expert AIs and has done really well since.

I've since upgraded it by adding two Annoy-o-Trons, but it's still pretty much original recipe.

[Zevox]

Well, I like this Brawl. Played with a Control Warrior with a steeper curve than normal and won my two games so far - second one even became a curb stomp when Varian Win pulled a Shieldmaiden and Ragnaros for me on turn 6. Kinda wish I had a second BGH and Brawl, and maybe even a Gorehowl, to throw into the deck, but it's not worth blowing 400 dust each on them for a Tavern Brawl.

[TechnoWarforged]

I love the smell of fresh thread in the morning...


Brawl is a one and done for me. Had the Pal/War 2 win 40 gold quest... remade my aggro Paladin deck with focus on 1/3/5 drops.

If you start first you get coin.... it makes sense because your opponent start off with 3 mana!

Even Cards leaves you with mana left so you have to pick them carefully. Generally a 5 drop is more powerful then a 4 drop.. and if you get twice the mana crystal anyways you'll always be able to play a 5 drop.

I would have used Mysterious Challenger in my brawl deck thou.. but I didn't have any.

I have up to 2200+ gold... still waiting for the meta to clear so I can decide what packs I want to buy.

[The_Jackal]

I haven't done the brawl this week, but I'll likely make a control Priest for it, because if double mana-gain doesn't justify playing 2x Mind Control, I don't know what will. Druid with all the card draw picks is also thought (Ancient of Lore, Starfire, etc).

[Joran]

My Tavern Brawl turns

Mana 1: Pass.
Mana 3: Mad Scientist (
Mana 5: Sludge Belcher
Mana 7: Dr. Boom
Mana 9: Antonidas + Frostbolt + Trade Mad Scientist for Mirror Entity.
Mana 10: Fireball + Effigy + Unstable Portal

And... the game was all but over.

[Destro_Yersul]

I tried dragon warrior for funsies in the brawl, ran up against a rogue running Leeroy Shadowstep combo. I won by alextrasza-ing myself.

[r2d2go]

I've been running a Paladin zoo/inspire deck - take control early, inspire into the late game with a swarm of dudes. Mukla's Champion is actually pretty good - even if it only gets one use, the full-board buff is important. That said, even in this deck, Competitive Spirit isn't very strong. I guess that says something about the secret :smalltongue:

[The_Jackal]

I've been running a Paladin zoo/inspire deck - take control early, inspire into the late game with a swarm of dudes. Mukla's Champion is actually pretty good - even if it only gets one use, the full-board buff is important. That said, even in this deck, Competitive Spirit isn't very strong. I guess that says something about the secret :smalltongue:

My Tavern brawl was actually fun and interesting. Played against a secret paladin who got going very early, got me down to one health before I stabilized. It would have been a great game, but my opponent made a HORRIBLE mistake, playing Sylvanas after my Sylvanas, THEN using Aldori Peacekeeper on my Sylvanas. I punished him horribly by Playing Kel'Thuzad and running my Windrunner into his, which obligingly swiped the other Windrunner (the other alternative was a 6/5 divine shield minion). 2 windrunners + KT = Victory.

[Fleeing Coward]

I just went Druid with the Brawl. Solid card draw in Nourish and Ancient of Lore, Big fat taunts in Druid of the Claw/Ancient of War/Ironbark and most importantly, the trump card against all those fools trying to rush you down in Tree of Life :smalltongue:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Faced down a ridiculous Shaman deck in the Brawl that got me down to 5 health. Super aggro. But I maintained board control and clawed my way to a victorious position, thanks to Healbot.

[Sian]

huh... thought i had signed up on the player list...

Sian#2690 EU Servers

[Surrealistik]

My priest deck made from commons and base cards (http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/322027-plebeian-trash-priest-deck) (excepting the Dagger Tossers) just played against Rogue Control, Token Paladin, Aggro Paladin, Druid Astral Communion, and Warlock Zoo.

Narrowly lost to Warlock Zoo and Aggro Paladin (was all of 1 health from beating Aggro Paladin, FML), beat the rest. Not bad at all given the card quality or lackthereof.

[Cespenar]

Huh. Turns out Buzzard + UtH is playable again, thanks to this Brawl. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

huh... thought i had signed up on the player list...

Sian#2690 EU Servers
:smallconfused: I thought you had too. I swear I recall seeing you post asking to be added, and I always add people when I see them. Anyway, done.

[turbo164]

My Brawl pack had a Brawl in it. :smallcool:

[Thialfi]

I dusted a lot of old cards that will never see play for me (sorry, Hogger) and crafted a few new ones, most notably Chillmaw for my dragon priest deck. I have that deck to the point that I feel that it is really well balanced. I don't think it has any weakness against a specific type of deck, with one exception. When I get into long control matches, Ysera has wrecked me. I have no defense against her and her stinking 4 attack. I shouldn't complain too much since she's in my deck too, but every time I see her in a balanced match, I have to overextend to kill her, which is death against that type of opponent. I'm halfway tempted to put confuse into my deck because it would make her easier to deal with and it would be really fun in certain instances. Outside of that, it's casting shadow word: death on my own Sylvanas. Mind Control would be a card that clogs my hand in everything but control matches, but I'll have to consider it if I keep running into control decks.


I did have my first loss to Varian. He cast him and got Ragnaros, Shield Maiden, and Spellbreaker. It would have been really sweet to have my lightbomb in hand at the time. Alas, it was not to be.

[The_Jackal]

I dusted a lot of old cards that will never see play for me (sorry, Hogger) and crafted a few new ones, most notably Chillmaw for my dragon priest deck. I have that deck to the point that I feel that it is really well balanced. I don't think it has any weakness against a specific type of deck, with one exception. When I get into long control matches, Ysera has wrecked me. I have no defense against her and her stinking 4 attack. I shouldn't complain too much since she's in my deck too, but every time I see her in a balanced match, I have to overextend to kill her, which is death against that type of opponent. I'm halfway tempted to put confuse into my deck because it would make her easier to deal with and it would be really fun in certain instances. Outside of that, it's casting shadow word: death on my own Sylvanas. Mind Control would be a card that clogs my hand in everything but control matches, but I'll have to consider it if I keep running into control decks.


I did have my first loss to Varian. He cast him and got Ragnaros, Shield Maiden, and Spellbreaker. It would have been really sweet to have my lightbomb in hand at the time. Alas, it was not to be.

Let's see your decklist.

[Gandariel]

My dragon priest list has two answers to Ysera:
Rend Blackhand and Vol'jin.

That's not much, but it's something. Also, yeah, i have my own Yserea

[Avaris]

Heh, so first go on the brawl went like this:

My turn 1: pass
Their turn 1: pass
MT2: Warsong Commander
TT2: Muster for Battle
MT3: Grim Patron
"The Victory is Yours"

[Lethologica]

Heh, so first go on the brawl went like this:

My turn 1: pass
Their turn 1: pass
MT2: Warsong Commander
TT2: Muster for Battle
MT3: Grim Patron
"The Victory is Yours"
that's evil
you're evil
:o

[Gaelbert]

I've been playing a fair amount recently, you can add me to the list: SamHouston#1563, NA
Mainly just started playing because I wanted the Heroes of the Storm mount you get for 100 wins and because I have some fond memories of playing Magic and, to a lesser extent, Pokemon, but I've really been enjoying it. Picked up Naxx, been splitting my time between that and leveling all my classes up to 10. I mainly played White and Blue decks in MtG, and I've had the most success with Paladin and Mage, so no great surprises there.

Outside of the guaranteed legendaries from Naxx that I have, I've also picked up Grommash and Troggzor. I'm curious as to the online resources you folks use to find/compare/look at decks. I've been using a lot from Icy Veins, but is there a way to search for decks focused around individual cards outside of just Googling it? I'm not really looking to copy any netdecks, I just want to see what sort of strategies the cards I have fit in with.

[Gandariel]

tempostorm.com or reddit are other sources you can check.

And don't be ashamed to copy netdecks.
netdecks are the outcome of hundreds of games and refining, you're just saving yourself the time to do it.

I often start from a netdeck, play it for a couple games to understand its mechanics, then start switching out cards to make it "mine"

[Gray Mage]

I usually go into tempostorm for new decks. It's best to first netdeck and once you are familiar and understand it well you can put your spin into it.

What list are people using for Dragon Priest? I've met one or two in ranked and I'm curious for people's experiences.

[Zevox]

What list are people using for Dragon Priest? I've met one or two in ranked and I'm curious for people's experiences.
I was running a slightly modified version of one that one our posters here - Gandariel, I think - posted in the previous thread, during the last half week or so of last month.

2x Holy Smite
2x Power Word: Shield
2x Northshire Cleric
2x Twilight Whelp
2x Wyrmwrest Agent
1x Shadow Word: Pain
1x Shadow Word: Death
1x Velen's Chosen
2x Dark Cultist
2x Twilight Guardian
1x Shadow Madness
2x Azure Drake
2x Blackwing Corruptor
2x Holy Nova
Vol'jin
1x Lightbomb
Sylvanas
Chromaggus
Nefarian
Ysera
No Chillmaw because I don't have it.

I found it started looking stronger than it had been pre-TGT, but wound up feeling it still has basically the same problems. Too many situational things. Your removal may just not work on your opponent's threats, your cards may suck because you don't have a Dragon to activate them, your big threats are too slow to help if you fall behind, you can run out of a hand easily if you don't get a Northshire going - just wasn't happy with it.

[Yana]

Anyone have a suggestion for a deck to use in this week's brawl on the cheap? I don't know quite enough about the game to be able to construct something properly.

Well that or I'm lazy. Too tired to decide which.

[Surrealistik]

I've been playing a fair amount recently, you can add me to the list: SamHouston#1563, NA
Mainly just started playing because I wanted the Heroes of the Storm mount you get for 100 wins and because I have some fond memories of playing Magic and, to a lesser extent, Pokemon, but I've really been enjoying it. Picked up Naxx, been splitting my time between that and leveling all my classes up to 10. I mainly played White and Blue decks in MtG, and I've had the most success with Paladin and Mage, so no great surprises there.

Outside of the guaranteed legendaries from Naxx that I have, I've also picked up Grommash and Troggzor. I'm curious as to the online resources you folks use to find/compare/look at decks. I've been using a lot from Icy Veins, but is there a way to search for decks focused around individual cards outside of just Googling it? I'm not really looking to copy any netdecks, I just want to see what sort of strategies the cards I have fit in with.

Could try tinkering with some of the decks I've built as a starting point if you're not looking to pay for a lot of cards; the ones listed here (The Plebeian ones which are base set with some crafteds mixed in) are very effective and capable of winning with consistency vs netdecks and popular build archetypes that have a far higher dust investment: http://www.hearthpwn.com/members/Surrealaser/decks

Also yeah, Icy Veins is great.

[Lunix Vandal]

I've been toying around with this (https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/rdu-secrets-paladin) Secret Paladin deck for questing the last few days. Undefeated so far, though that's probably due to the small sample size. I can definitely see how getting your first MC late can ruin the game for you, but usually I've been stomping the early game thanks to some combination of Divine Shields, Muster, and Competitive Spirit.

[Tesla_pasta]

I played a really bad priest deck with 2x Mind Control and 2x thoughsteal and 2x of the 1 mana version of thoughsteal. I had very few good threats (other than like Chromaggus) and just stole all the good things my opponents were running (in the tavern brawl).

Also I'm teslapasta#1973 on NA server. Message me here if you friend me so I know to accept.

[Surrealistik]

I've been toying around with this (https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/rdu-secrets-paladin) Secret Paladin deck for questing the last few days. Undefeated so far, though that's probably due to the small sample size. I can definitely see how getting your first MC late can ruin the game for you, but usually I've been stomping the early game thanks to some combination of Divine Shields, Muster, and Competitive Spirit.

I really like it; pretty close to what I'd run if playing aggro paladin, and had enough dust to get decent cards. Not sure about Noble Sacrifice though

[Lunix Vandal]

I've found the Noble Sacrifices are actually pretty useful -- play one early and it often winds up removing your opponent's 1- or 2-drop. This can be a pretty painful tempo swing if it means your Secretkeeper, Knife Juggler, or Shielded Minibot gets extra time on the board undamaged. It's also good at supporting Competitive Spirit, since negating your opponent's next attack often means one extra recruit gets to live, so you end up with one more 2/2 than you would have had.

And when it comes out as part of Challenger's 4-secret spread? Simply beautiful, even (or perhaps especially) if your board was empty when Challenger dropped. If your opponent attacks, the Sacrifice chains into Avenge, buffing the Challenger to 9/8. If your opponent uses their hard removal (other than Polymorph, that is), Redemption keeps it on the board as a 6/1 ... that your opponent still can't kill with an attack from a throwaway 1/1, since it still has that extra layer of protection from Sacrifice > Avenge.

[Surrealistik]

Honestly, I'd probably go for Mad Scientist over it; trades well, has more control (including when it comes to Knife Juggler procs), useful throughout the game, plays nice with Redemption and Avenge, and gets your secrets into play.

Also won't get gimped by tokens, which are definitely a thing when it comes to countering aggro; something that happens to constitute much of Noble Sacrifice's value.

[Thialfi]

Let's see your decklist.

Here's what I'm running;

Power Word: Shield x2
Northshire Cleric x2
Twilight Whelp x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Velen's Chosen x2
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Holy Champion x2
Twilight Guardian x2
Holy Nova x2
Azure Drake x2
Twilight Corruptor x2
Lightbomb
Sylvanas Windrunner
Chillmaw
Confessor Paletress
Nefarian
Ysera

I had just taken out Vol'jin to put in a shadow madness to add more early game stuff, but I found that it wasn't as reliable as it used to be. In this meta, I've found that it's rare that I can get a 2 for 1 with it anymore and it's way too expensive if you can't do that, especially since I wasn't always getting rid of the card I wanted to get rid of. Then I added a shadow word: pain, but decided that the times I really wanted to get rid of a 3 attack minion were really limited, so I put a lightbomb back in to deal with the paladin hysteria I've been encountering (yes, I've found 3 AOEs and a chillmaw is NOT overkill).

Paletress is not coming out. She's waaay too fun. I was playing my second straight annoying paladin last night. I was cursing the RNG gods for not being able to draw my taunts or AOE in either matchup. I lost the first one and it was desperation time in game 2. I was down to 8 health with a clean board. He had 4 weenie's out and was top decking. I play Confessor and heal myself and hear the sweet, sweet line "put your faith in the light!" He was unable to clear Tirion on his turn and my next turn heal brings the equally sweet roaring and stomping of King Krush hitting the board. I got a flame leviathan the next turn and it was over. I won and my AOE never did show up.

[Thialfi]

Let's see your decklist.

Here's what I'm running;

Power Word: Shield x2
Northshire Cleric x2
Twilight Whelp x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Velen's Chosen x2
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Holy Champion x2
Twilight Guardian x2
Holy Nova x2
Azure Drake x2
Twilight Corruptor x2
Lightbomb
Sylvanas Windrunner
Chillmaw
Confessor Paletress
Nefarian
Ysera

I had just taken out Vol'jin to put in a shadow madness to add more early game stuff, but I found that it wasn't as reliable as it used to be. In this meta, I've found that it's rare that I can get a 2 for 1 with it anymore and it's way too expensive if you can't do that, especially since I wasn't always getting rid of the card I wanted to get rid of. Then I added a shadow word: pain, but decided that the times I really wanted to get rid of a 3 attack minion were really limited, so I put a lightbomb back in to deal with the paladin hysteria I've been encountering (yes, I've found 3 AOEs and a chillmaw is NOT overkill).

Paletress is not coming out. She's waaay too fun. I was playing my second straight annoying paladin last night. I was cursing the RNG gods for not being able to draw my taunts or AOE in either matchup. I lost the first one and it was desperation time in game 2. I was down to 8 health with a clean board. He had 4 weenie's out and was top decking. I play Confessor and heal myself and hear the sweet, sweet line "put your faith in the light!" He was unable to clear Tirion on his turn and my next turn heal brings the equally sweet roaring and stomping of King Krush hitting the board. I got a flame leviathan the next turn and it was over. I won and my AOE never did show up.

[Mando Knight]

Honestly, I'd probably go for Mad Scientist over it; trades well, has more control (including when it comes to Knife Juggler procs), useful throughout the game, plays nice with Redemption and Avenge, and gets your secrets into play.

Also won't get gimped by tokens, which are definitely a thing when it comes to countering aggro; something that happens to constitute much of Noble Sacrifice's value.

Tempo Storm Secrets Pally (https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/rdu-secrets-paladin), Icy Veins Aggro-Secrets (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/secrets-paladin-aggro-rush-tgt-deck), Icy Veins Midrange Secrets (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/secrets-paladin-midrange-tgt-deck), and this Hearthpwn NA #1 Legend Secrets Pally (http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/315365-na-legend-1-s17-secret-paladin) all run double Noble Sacrifice and no Mad Scientists. You don't want anything to reduce the number of secrets the Mysterious Challenger can slam on the board at once, which is what a Mad Scientist would accomplish. The idea for the deck isn't "Get a secret on the board" because that strategy doesn't work for Paladin--Paladin secrets are weaker alone than Hunter or Mage secrets. The strategy is "Get all your secrets on the board to make every attempted counterplay a catch-22" through the Mysterious Challenger.

The reason that Noble Sacrifice works is because it'll die to a token, sure, but it will also kill that token and trigger Avenge. Also, since most of them are fairly aggro decks themselves, good luck getting your own small creatures to stick against aggro-Paladin.

[Anarion]

This shaman draft makes me so happy, but I think it used up too much of my good luck allotment for the year.

earthshockx2
Lightning boltx3
Stormforged axe
Ancestral knowledgex2
Faerie Dragon
Flametongue totem
Whirling zap-o-matic
Youthful brewmaster
Powermace
Argent Horserider
Flesheating Ghoul
Scarlet Crusader
Spider Tank
Unbound Elemental
Evil Heckler
Fireguard Destroyer
Mechanical Yeti
Azure Drake
Kvaldir raider
Thunder Bluff Valiantx2
Fire elementalx3
Dr. Boom
Frost Giant

[Surrealistik]

The reason that Noble Sacrifice works is because it'll die to a token, sure, but it will also kill that token and trigger Avenge. Also, since most of them are fairly aggro decks themselves, good luck getting your own small creatures to stick against aggro-Paladin.

Losing a card to a token is a pretty bad trade and usually amounts to a ~1 to 0.5 trade or worse and can easily result in card disadvantage depending on what they attack with; trading Scientist 1 : 1 with an early drop of your choice, while also getting another secret for a 2 to 1 is really nice by contrast. To be fair Divine Favour can shore up the disadvantage, but it does leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I will definitely grant that Paladin secrets are relatively bad by contrast to other classes though, and MC clearly has more synergy with Noble Sacrifice.

More than anything else though, I'd defer to the morass of netdecks out there running Noble Sacrifice because they're derived from practical experience with the meta, while I'm theorycrafting from a vantage of base set, commons, and non-access to the expacs.

[Anarion]

Losing a card to a token is a pretty bad trade and usually amounts to a ~1 to 0.5 trade or worse and can easily result in card disadvantage depending on what they attack with; trading Scientist 1 : 1 with an early drop of your choice, while also getting another secret for a 2 to 1 is really nice by contrast. To be fair Divine Favour can shore up the disadvantage, but it does leave a bad taste in the mouth.

I will definitely grant that Paladin secrets are relatively bad by contrast to other classes though, and MC clearly has more synergy with Noble Sacrifice.

More than anything else though, I'd defer to the morass of netdecks out there running Noble Sacrifice because they're derived from practical experience with the meta, while I'm theorycrafting from a vantage of base set, commons, and non-access to the expacs.

Noble sacrifice isn't losing a card for a token because it also diverts an attack. It's losing a card to a token and preventing X damage to one of your other minions, where X is the token's attack. That's critical because the card protects something more important that you have on board, whereas a mad scientist can be ignored entirely and has no way to impact the board on the turn it's played.

[Surrealistik]

True, but only if there's no valuable targets on the board to hit with a token while you have the secret in play. All-round it just seems iffy to me and seems like probable card disadvantage.

Mad Scientist is certainly slower and will be ignored, but it can reliably trade into a 2 : 1 vs aggro.

Again, it clearly plays better in practice than in theory.

[Lethologica]

True, but only if there's no valuable targets on the board to hit with a token while you have the secret in play. All-round it just seems iffy to me and seems like probable card disadvantage.

Mad Scientist is certainly slower and will be ignored, but it can reliably trade into a 2 : 1 vs aggro.

Again, it clearly plays better in practice than in theory.
Cards fetched out of your deck are not card disadvantage. Running double Noble Sacrifice is to ensure at least one is in your deck when MC is played, so it can be fetched (and trigger Avenge).

[Surrealistik]

I'm talking about the disadvantageous trades that the card seems likely to blunder into when used prior to MC.

[Anarion]

I'm talking about the disadvantageous trades that the card seems likely to blunder into when used prior to MC.

You don't have to play the card if you don't like the board state. It's best played in situations where the card you're protecting makes up for the disadvantage of the noble sacrifice. For example, if you play the sacrifice turn one from your starting hand, your opponent coins for a 2 drop, and you play a knife juggler turn 2, just that combination of cards can turn the game into a massive blowout, since the likely outcome is the 2-drop tries to kill your juggler, dies to the secret, and you get to keep a knife juggler to do tons of extra damage on the next turn (also you get a free damage from knife juggler when your secret pops).

If instead you're sitting on coin shielded mini-bot shielded mini-bot, you'd be better off getting your bots on the board, usually, and then playing the noble sacrifice a turn or two later.

[Lethologica]

I'm talking about the disadvantageous trades that the card seems likely to blunder into when used prior to MC.
At that point you're optimizing for the wrong thing. The goal early is not to make every play cause card advantage, but to delay and reach the stage of the game where you can easily generate enormous card advantage. (Also, why are you playing Noble Sacrifice when there's a token out, come on.)

[Silva Stormrage]

Has anyone actually tried out any reliable murlock paladin deck? I have briefly but I am still rank 15 on the ladder so that might not mean much. The murlock knights seem to REALLY help.

[Surrealistik]

I get that you can just park it in your hand in the event tokens are fielded, but it is conceivable you might run it first turn, or there's a token drop after the fact. Again, I see and completely understand where it would be useful and how it works in the deck, but overall the card makes me pretty leery; I don't like the relative lack of control it represents; consider it a personal hang up that doesn't jive with the reality of how the card plays out.

[Lethologica]

Has anyone actually tried out any reliable murlock paladin deck? I have briefly but I am still rank 15 on the ladder so that might not mean much. The murlock knights seem to REALLY help.
Apparently. (http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/185031-legend-murlocadin)

[Hamste]

Odd, why does it run zombie chow?

[Anarion]

Speaking of secrets, has anyone pulled mysterious challenger from unstable portal in a mage deck yet? It just happened to me and it is a disgusting blowout with the mage secrets.

[Hamste]

Apparently it has been confirmed that TGT cards are more likely to appear in arena picks and so are class cards.

[The_Jackal]

Here's what I'm running;

Power Word: Shield x2
Northshire Cleric x2
Twilight Whelp x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
Velen's Chosen x2
Eydis Darkbane
Fjola Lightbane
Holy Champion x2
Twilight Guardian x2
Holy Nova x2
Azure Drake x2
Twilight Corruptor x2
Lightbomb
Sylvanas Windrunner
Chillmaw
Confessor Paletress
Nefarian
Ysera

I had just taken out Vol'jin to put in a shadow madness to add more early game stuff, but I found that it wasn't as reliable as it used to be. In this meta, I've found that it's rare that I can get a 2 for 1 with it anymore and it's way too expensive if you can't do that, especially since I wasn't always getting rid of the card I wanted to get rid of. Then I added a shadow word: pain, but decided that the times I really wanted to get rid of a 3 attack minion were really limited, so I put a lightbomb back in to deal with the paladin hysteria I've been encountering (yes, I've found 3 AOEs and a chillmaw is NOT overkill).

Paletress is not coming out. She's waaay too fun. I was playing my second straight annoying paladin last night. I was cursing the RNG gods for not being able to draw my taunts or AOE in either matchup. I lost the first one and it was desperation time in game 2. I was down to 8 health with a clean board. He had 4 weenie's out and was top decking. I play Confessor and heal myself and hear the sweet, sweet line "put your faith in the light!" He was unable to clear Tirion on his turn and my next turn heal brings the equally sweet roaring and stomping of King Krush hitting the board. I got a flame leviathan the next turn and it was over. I won and my AOE never did show up.

I assume you don't have Chromaggus, which is why you're running Nefarian. If I were you, I'd dump Twilight Guardians for Dragonkin Sorcerers. They're another target for your buff spells, if the Val'kyr sisters aren't yet in play, and they have better downside stats (ie: If the condition isn't met). I'm also not sure about the Holy Champion. Yes, it CAN get big, but perhaps Blackwing Technician might be a better pick to shift your tempo forward. You've really only got 4 cards you WANT to drop before 4 mana, which makes you pretty vulnerable to tempo, and your board clears, while fairly ample, also show up late. I do agree, you don't have any good answers to Ysera on your opponent's board, but really, the only solution for that is Mind Control, or perhaps Faceless Manipulator. Faceless woulnd't be such a bad pick, now that I think of it, you've certainly got enough high power minions to make it work for you.

[The_Jackal]

Odd, why does it run zombie chow?

Because the deck lives and dies by board control, not just wrecking face. The murloc magic is all about getting a lot of Murlocs in play.

[Mando Knight]

I assume you don't have Chromaggus, which is why you're running Nefarian.

...Why would you assume that, when you get Chrom from BRM wing 4 and Nef from wing 5?

[The_Jackal]

...Why would you assume that, when you get Chrom from BRM wing 4 and Nef from wing 5?

That is a good point. I don't have either wing yet. My bad. In that case, yes, I like Chromaggus over Nefarian.

[Gandariel]

If I were you, I'd dump Twilight Guardians for Dragonkin Sorcerers.

Noooo, no no no no no. Don't do that. Ever. Twilight Guardians are basically *the* reason why this deck is good.

I do agree that Chromaggus > Nefarian.

ALso, Holy Champion is clearly wrong for this deck. You don't have Light of the Naaru or Circle of Healing. Just replace them with Dark Cultist or something

[Weimann]

I did priest this brawl to great success. The quick ramp up really opens up for value Mind Controls.

I didn't like it super much though. Does anyone else here just not like building decks? I like brawls that makes one tactic obvious (even if it's not the best) so that I can throw decks together easily. This one was too much like normal, just faster.

[Surrealistik]

Mana rain brawl heavily favours people who have tons of legendaries and in general, expensive, high efficiency cards; therefore, can't say I'm a fan at this point. :smalltongue:

[Cespenar]

Mana rain brawl heavily favours people who have tons of legendaries and in general, expensive, high efficiency cards; therefore, can't say I'm a fan at this point. :smalltongue:

Eh. Just put Faceless Manipulators instead. :smalltongue:

Besides, some weird aggro decks work without spamming legendaries either. You just have to rethink the mana curve.

[Surrealistik]

Eh. Just put Faceless Manipulators instead. :smalltongue:

Besides, some weird aggro decks work without spamming legendaries either. You just have to rethink the mana curve.

Don't have those either.

I mean, all the good cards I _do_ have are pretty much fast Aggro commons with the exception of a pair of Knife Jugglers.

[Landis963]

So. That one experiment I did with Arena is done. The major conclusion being: I suck at arena. No scores higher than 3-3, and both of those were when someone was hand-holding me through the picks and/or the gameplay. (thanks to Gandariel and to the fine folks at the Hearthstone Arena thread) Compare with the wild profitability of the month I spent playing nothing but Ranked.

[Mando Knight]

Even infinite players (consistently 7+ wins) have problems getting Warrior to work reliably in Arena. 3-3 is about average (across all Arena runs, everywhere), and the more people get frustrated and leave the Arena the harder it will be to actually get to the point where you are an infinite player... only about 9% of all runs overall reach 7 wins, just by the nature of how Arena works.

[Lethologica]

Thankfully it doesn't quite take 7+ wins to go infinite, thanks to quests. But yeah, Warrior is a weak Arena class. Picking Mage is, by itself, probably worth an extra win over picking Warrior. (Caveat: self-reported statistics may be biased.)

[Cespenar]

Thankfully it doesn't quite take 7+ wins to go infinite, thanks to quests. But yeah, Warrior is a weak Arena class. Picking Mage is, by itself, probably worth an extra win over picking Warrior. (Caveat: self-reported statistics may be biased.)

Picking Mage also may end up in getting friend requested and then flamed. :smalltongue: Happened last time, when I picked Mage first time after months.

[Landis963]

Even infinite players (consistently 7+ wins) have problems getting Warrior to work reliably in Arena. 3-3 is about average (across all Arena runs, everywhere), and the more people get frustrated and leave the Arena the harder it will be to actually get to the point where you are an infinite player... only about 9% of all runs overall reach 7 wins, just by the nature of how Arena works.

Unfortunately, that Warrior run was one of my better ones. (3 wins as opposed to 1, or even 0!) My average for the Arena runs I attributed to last month was closer to 1 win per run. *checks calculator* Yeah, 1.25 wins/run. I don't even know what were the other 7 I picked, but I'm fairly certain a Mage one was a 0-win, and a Rogue one was a 1-win.

So I think my conclusion that my l33t Arena skillz are abysmal is a valid one.

[Anarion]

So. That one experiment I did with Arena is done. The major conclusion being: I suck at arena. No scores higher than 3-3, and both of those were when someone was hand-holding me through the picks and/or the gameplay. (thanks to Gandariel and to the fine folks at the Hearthstone Arena thread) Compare with the wild profitability of the month I spent playing nothing but Ranked.

This means I need to go check the arena thread, doesn't it. :smallsigh:

[Joran]

Thankfully it doesn't quite take 7+ wins to go infinite, thanks to quests. But yeah, Warrior is a weak Arena class. Picking Mage is, by itself, probably worth an extra win over picking Warrior. (Caveat: self-reported statistics may be biased.)

In the first week of TGT, Paladin went up to first and Rogue is second in arena. Mage is third now among the arena classes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3jh5zy/1_week_of_tgt_heartharena_mage_lost_its_throne_in/

And yes, picking mage over warrior leads to an extra win on average.

TGT win average, albeit with one week sample (also with the caveat that I think these are self-reported numbers considering the inflated win averages.)

Class Average wins TGT (25 August - 2 September)

Paladin5.2959
Rogue5.2648
Mage4.8385
Druid4.6741
Shaman4.54024.5402
Warlock4.2651
Hunter4.1789
Priest3.9554
Warrior3.5482


P.S. I'm still sitting on my 8-2 Warrior arena.

[Landis963]

This means I need to go check the arena thread, doesn't it. :smallsigh:

Yes. Yes it does. May you have better luck than mine, good sir.

[TechnoWarforged]

Mana rain brawl heavily favours people who have tons of legendaries and in general, expensive, high efficiency cards; therefore, can't say I'm a fan at this point. :smalltongue:

I think it just favour cards with odd casting cost since the mana goes 1-3-5-7.

However I did make a overload shaman deck that''s 5-1. Having more mana means that overload doesn't matter much.


In the first week of TGT, Paladin went up to first and Rogue is second in arena. Mage is third now among the arena classes.



I guess I should feel bad about my 3-3 Paladin with two true silvers? :(

[Anxe]

Unfortunately, that Warrior run was one of my better ones. (3 wins as opposed to 1, or even 0!) My average for the Arena runs I attributed to last month was closer to 1 win per run. *checks calculator* Yeah, 1.25 wins/run. I don't even know what were the other 7 I picked, but I'm fairly certain a Mage one was a 0-win, and a Rogue one was a 1-win.

So I think my conclusion that my l33t Arena skillz are abysmal is a valid one.

Your picks were on point, but when I was coaching you, your play choices were off a little bit. I just couldn't suggest stuff fast enough due to being on my phone. Come back to it in a few months and try again?

EDIT:

Apparently it has been confirmed that TGT cards are more likely to appear in arena picks and so are class cards.

Where was this confirmed?

[Mando Knight]

TGT win average, albeit with one week sample (also with the caveat that I think these are self-reported numbers considering the inflated win averages.)

They're self-reported as part of HearthArena. The better Arena players often like to use such a site to track their win rates, and bad players usually don't care about such a site at all (though those that do tend to improve over time).

Like the thread said:

Please note that for all these classes the average wins is far above the normal average in Arena. HearthArena users intend to win 61% of their games compared to the average of 50% for non-heartharena users.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'm willing to buy those stats. Paladin picked up the best set of 3 commons in TGT. Murloc Knight in particular is just amazing as long as you remember it's actually a 6 drop.

[Hamste]

Your picks were on point, but when I was coaching you, your play choices were off a little bit. I just couldn't suggest stuff fast enough due to being on my phone. Come back to it in a few months and try again?

EDIT:


Where was this confirmed?

Ben Brode (A senior game designer of Hearthstone) mentioned it on a podcast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYxCg4QvLhk around 1:31.

[Fleeing Coward]

One thing that's particularly noticeable since TGT's introduction is the sharp decrease of board wipes which makes highly aggressive tempo decks significantly better since you're now expecting your opponent to not have a Consecration/Holy Nova/Flamestrike in hand the majority of the time. (Talking about Arena of course)

[Lunix Vandal]

You know how Secret Pally's win-con is supposed to be "have a Challenger in-hand on Turn 6?"
Not if your opponent is a handlock:

Turn 1: Handlock passes.
I play Coin + Knife Juggler.
Turn 2: Handlock taps.
I play Secretkeeper x2.
Turn 3: Handlock taps again.
I play 2 secrets (Redemption + Comp Spirit) and a Haunted Creeper (handlock is at 13 HP now ... Molten Giant? What's that?).
Turn 4: Handlock plays his first and only card: a Void Caller.
I give the Creeper a Blessing of Kings and go face.

(The game before this I had a Secret Pally mirror match. He conceded when Redemption procced on my Secretkeeper and he had already had the last minion on his board attack face.)

Moral: Deal with TGT Paladins as you would prenerf Undertaker decks -- with extreme prejudice.

[Avaris]

What are people's thoughts on the optimum use of gold if playing Hearthstone exclusively as free to play? I recently did a bit of grinding to get Naxx and Blackrock, averaging about a week and a half to get the 700 gold needed for each, but now need to decide on what to do going forward.

As far as I can see, there are 3 options:
1) continue to save for the next adventure, so as to be able to get the wings as they open
2) spend gold on the grand tournament packs to expand collection a bit
3) spend gold on arena, hoping to get at least 50 back from each run so it is at least as efficient as just buying packs

[thirsting]

If you enjoy drafting and playing it, and are at all good at Arena (something like 4-7 wins regularly), I'd say play that. You get a quaranteed pack every time, and possibly much more if you do well enough.

Pack costs 100 gold, Arena run 150, and if you win even slightly more than lose, it's easy to get the difference of 50 gold back every time.

[Gandariel]

What are people's thoughts on the optimum use of gold if playing Hearthstone exclusively as free to play? I recently did a bit of grinding to get Naxx and Blackrock, averaging about a week and a half to get the 700 gold needed for each, but now need to decide on what to do going forward.

As far as I can see, there are 3 options:
1) continue to save for the next adventure, so as to be able to get the wings as they open
2) spend gold on the grand tournament packs to expand collection a bit
3) spend gold on arena, hoping to get at least 50 back from each run so it is at least as efficient as just buying packs

(i'm F2P as well).
Generally, i float between Arena and Ranked whenever i feel like it.
When an Adventure comes up, i start saving more gold (and i don't really grind or rush. I think i got to the end of both Naxx and BrM a month or two after they were released).
When an Expansion comes up.. i check my bank. Both times (GvG and TGT) i had a lot of gold floating, so i bought 10 packs or so (half my gold), craft some stuff, and then went back to my usual business.

So, in general, i'd say go Arena if you're at least decent at it. Buy some TGT packs if you feel like, and generally don't worry too much :D Most importantly, do whatever is fun to you

[Frog Dragon]

So, Kripp made a dreadsteed deck. I am here to report that it is in fact legitimate and also that you should play it.

http://i.imgur.com/DGnjcvp.png

If you have a good opener, you can start off a little bit like zoo. You want jugglers and eggs. I sometimes keep PO, Coil, dreadsteed, and maybe shredder or implosion. In any case, you want to maintain a decent board early on so that you can actually play your dreadsteed and start to combo out. Sometimes you'll fail to draw it, but you still have more or less a demonzoo loadout, so it's not really a disaster.

In general, you should play the dreadsteed ASAP if the board situation allows it, because having a dreadsteed on board makes your deck way better in general. It's perfect for PO, Gives Void Terror a free +1/+1, and it's the target you want to sac pact. However, you may want to bait silences first unless you can duplicate your dreadsteed on the same turn. Once you have more than one dreadsteed on board, you cannot be stopped from comboing by any cards anyone actually runs.

As for your combos, most of your deck can do something with dreadsteed, so you can initiate shenanigans typically the turn after you play the actual dreadsteed. Maybe you Power Overwhelming the dreadsteed, trade it into something, and void terror the remainder. Maybe you trade it and the sac pact for a heal against a hunter. You can even coin your own dreadsteed for cycle if you have to.

Then you have the duplicating combos. These are how you really "go off". You sacrifice a dreadsteed with Kel'thuzad or Rivendare in play, and suddenly you have multiple dreadsteeds (this is the perfect time to sac pact for an extra proc). This means you've won board for the rest of the game, because there is no way to handle multiple dreadsteeds. Almost every deck is up a creek without a paddle on that one. You will win the game by inertia from that point forward, unless your opponent kills you very quickly after it. This also allows Mal'Ganis to be extra ridiculous, because once you've duplicated your dreadsteeds, you will have multiple demons on board at at all times.

Most matchups seem to be decent as far as I've seen, but totem shaman is somewhat tricky due to their resilient early boards and the snowball nature of thunder bluff valiant, leaving you with few windows to dreadsteed. Patron Warrior is problematic because it feeds their combo.

One final advantage this deck has is its somewhat oddball nature. I've had people burn AoE on dreadsteed boards as if that would do anything at all. You also have opportunities to pretend to be other warlock decks, which will again cause people to misplay against you.

Finally, it's really fun. Like seriously.

[Eurus]

Oh my god Murloc Knight is so good. I was baffled by all these Old Murk-Eyes until I realized there's only 12 summonable murlocs, and most of them are crazy efficient for freebies. Puddlestomper, Spiritwalker, Warleader, another Knight, even Bluegill. Just, wow.

[The Hellbug]

Oh my god Murloc Knight is so good. I was baffled by all these Old Murk-Eyes until I realized there's only 12 summonable murlocs, and most of them are crazy efficient for freebies. Puddlestomper, Spiritwalker, Warleader, another Knight, even Bluegill. Just, wow.

Yup, had a pretty solid arena run with mage where every single loss was against a paladin with a murlock knight. If you deal with it immediately, the thing is still usually solid at 6 mana. That said, I got to have fun with one of my own later when I burgled one off of a paladin (though rogue's hero power doesn't lend itself too well to inspire compared to paladin and his ilk).

[Jormengand]

http://oi62.tinypic.com/jqnjbd.jpghttp://oi62.tinypic.com/97senl.jpg

I'm not even sure where to start on that. I also had a game where emperor reduced the cost of Gadgetzan to 2 and Flamewalker and Apprentice to 0, and I just threw cheap spells until the enemy died. They must have been really annoyed, given that they started with over 30 health on that turn (including armour, of course).

[Gray Mage]

@Landis: If you'd lone to try again I volunteer to help you out sometime.

[Surrealistik]

I think it just favour cards with odd casting cost since the mana goes 1-3-5-7.

However I did make a overload shaman deck that''s 5-1. Having more mana means that overload doesn't matter much.

It definitely favours high cost, high efficiency cards. Basically as someone who has none of these, I need to play aggro and hope I can strangle my opponent in the cradle with the additional tempo before he can drop his OP legendaries, or just after he does so; failure means a summary loss.

[Hamste]

It favors odd mana cost creatures and 2 mana cost creatures (if you have a bad hero power). 2 mana creatures help early game by allowing you to use your full mana more often (Two odds of course equal an even meaning you can not play both the same turn with perfect efficiency unless you have a way to make your mana even or you can play a third odd.)

[Landis963]

@Landis: If you'd lone to try again I volunteer to help you out sometime.

Try Arena again? Maybe. Not for a while though - I'm a little burnt out on Arena. Maybe next month.

[Surrealistik]

I've tried both aggro and control with basics/commons; aggro outperformed handily. That said, aggro still struggled mightily vs those decks packed with legendaries which remembered that board clear is still worthwhile because there are many like me who cannot compete in the late game due to most basic/common high cost cards being **** and must resort to dumping their hand ASAP, hoping to hell they can score a kill before the end times come. Though aggro can develop its board faster, decks banking on their endgame drops can also drop board clear much more quickly, then follow up with their game ender. In balance, aggro has less time before their board dies, and legend spam can get their win buttons out much faster. So yes, I do find that this Brawl significantly favours expensive, high efficiency cards, though I agree that odd cost cards also benefit.

[Lethologica]

<images>

I'm not even sure where to start on that. I also had a game where emperor reduced the cost of Gadgetzan to 2 and Flamewalker and Apprentice to 0, and I just threw cheap spells until the enemy died. They must have been really annoyed, given that they started with over 30 health on that turn (including armour, of course).
I, uh, I'm not up on the times. How do you get triple Thaurissian?

[Hamste]

I, uh, I'm not up on the times. How do you get triple Thaurissian?

Double duplicate or a mirror entity and a duplicate.

[Fleeing Coward]

Another reminder why Deathlord is horrible, especially if you're playing against Priest.
My turn 5 immediately before my opponent's concession:
http://i.imgur.com/V011mcR.jpg

[otakuryoga]

unless of course he pumps it with the 2/4 +1 spellpower

then you are looking at a 4/12 that you cant hurt unless you actually play shrinkmeister...or you buff it + swd

[Fleeing Coward]

unless of course he pumps it with the 2/4 +1 spellpower

then you are looking at a 4/12 that you cant hurt unless you actually play shrinkmeister...or you buff it + swd

Yes but they played it on turn 3 when I had a stealthed Jungle Panther on board (and the pain in hand of course) :smalltongue:

Edit: Most painful way to lose an arena game:
Ogre Brute going face 4 times (6.25% chance of occuring) in a row instead of hitting your opponent's lone creature (Fallen Mage then DID then BBB) allowing them to keep up with the fatties you dropped turn 4 (Yeti - Frostbolt + Hero Power), 5 (Pit Fighter - DID on Fallen + Hero Power), 6 (Upgraded Repair Bot - DID + Hero Power, played BBB) and 7 (Stormwind Champion - BBB+ Hero Power, played Master Jouster, wins Joust).

To add insult to injury, I later lose the Joust when I converted his Master Jouster and both my Lightbombs + Mindcontrol were in the last 10 cards of my deck meaning I didn't draw any of them when I finally completely lost board control to his Kraken.

[Astrella]

I played a priest deck with lots of mind controll-y effects and Mind Vision and such and then just some Big Game Hunters and other removal. Don't need the expensive legendaries yourself when you can just use your opponents. :p (Was mostly dragon priest aside from that)

[Anarion]

Welp, luck decided I should win some ranked games tonight. Unstable portal pulled a Mistlord in my first game, and it turns out that a tempo mage deck playing 2/4 mana wyrms and 3/5 flamewakers wins games pretty easily. Second game, unstable portal gave me Dr. Boom on turn 4 and Effigy turned him into an Antonidas after my opponent blew everything to kill it. ...Yeah.

[Landis963]

What would you say the current shape of the meta is? Patron's been taken down a peg, and we have a new midrange challenger in Token Shaman (so I gather), a new aggro challenger in Murloc Paladin and a new control challenger in Secret Paladin, but beyond that I'm not sure.

I ask because I'm gearing up for another mass dusting (Generally do that once a month at the start of the season) but I'm not certain the dust from TGT has settled yet.

[Pokonic]

My best play in recent memory; used the Coin on turn 2, I played Far Sight. Drew a Mistcaller. Played it on turn 3.

Initiate Murloc hard mode! :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

What would you say the current shape of the meta is? Patron's been taken down a peg, and we have a new midrange challenger in Token Shaman (so I gather), a new aggro challenger in Murloc Paladin and a new control challenger in Secret Paladin, but beyond that I'm not sure.

I ask because I'm gearing up for another mass dusting (Generally do that once a month at the start of the season) but I'm not certain the dust from TGT has settled yet.

According to Tempo Storm (https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/meta-snapshot/meta-snapshot-28-oh-secret-tree-oh-secret-tree), the new king of the meta is Secrets Pally, followed by Patron Warrior, Mech Mage (the snapshot deck runs Fel Reavers because the other top decks don't run a BGH target, sometimes not even Boom) and Aggro Pally.

Totem Shaman has apparently dropped hard, as it's not fast enough to cope with the aggro decks or to reliably finish the game before Patron drops the OTK combo. Pure-Murloc Paladin hasn't done much, either, as the Murloc Knight pulls in all the synergy it could want from its effect, is a bit too slow for a normal Murloc or Aggro deck, and Paladin's other class cards are way better than most of the filler Murlocs.

[Cespenar]

Ran into a Secrets Pally at... wait for it, Rank 17.

Damnit, just let me try out my wacky deck ideas in peace.

[TechnoWarforged]

Actually I ran into a few DragonPriest around rank 18 and just can't handle them.

I do want to play as Dragonpriest as well but lacking a few key cards including Chillmaw, Twilight Drake.. and I see some rank Cabal Shadow priest which I also lack :(

[Anxe]

I find wacky ideas work up to about rank 13 after tenish days into the season.

[Jormengand]

I, uh, I'm not up on the times. How do you get triple Thaurissian?

Mirror Images, Echoes of Medivh, Unstable Portals, Effigies and, the way I actually did it, Duplicates are all viable ways as mage.

[thirsting]

Mirror Entities. Mirror Image only produces beautiful, beautiful images of yourself, which you totally only use in middle of battle to distract enemies, and not for practising perfect kissing techniques and ... I mean, I mix up the names of those two spells too sometimes.

[Xiander]

So, I have been seeing a few Dragon warriors around, is this a deck that is actually good, or are people just trying stuff out?

[Tesla_pasta]

So, I have been seeing a few Dragon warriors around, is this a deck that is actually good, or are people just trying stuff out?

Control Warrior is perfectly capable of fitting a bunch a dragon synergy into the list. Chillmaw is really good if you can support it, and nefarian and ysera are fine win conditions even without other dragon stuff. Throw in azure drakes and Corruptors and you've got yourself a dragon warrior. I figure dpriest is better since they have the synergy taunts and a good draw engine to keep dragons in hand.

[Xiander]

Control Warrior is perfectly capable of fitting a bunch a dragon synergy into the list. Chillmaw is really good if you can support it, and nefarian and ysera are fine win conditions even without other dragon stuff. Throw in azure drakes and Corruptors and you've got yourself a dragon warrior. I figure dpriest is better since they have the synergy taunts and a good draw engine to keep dragons in hand.

Well, that makes sense, but what made me question the viability, is that a couple of the ones I have seen run alexstrasa's champion. As far as I can tell, that card runs rather counter to the usual plan of control warrior.
Which mad me wonder if it was a new kind of deck or just a new spin on control warrior.

[Joran]

What are people's thoughts on the optimum use of gold if playing Hearthstone exclusively as free to play? I recently did a bit of grinding to get Naxx and Blackrock, averaging about a week and a half to get the 700 gold needed for each, but now need to decide on what to do going forward.

As far as I can see, there are 3 options:
1) continue to save for the next adventure, so as to be able to get the wings as they open
2) spend gold on the grand tournament packs to expand collection a bit
3) spend gold on arena, hoping to get at least 50 back from each run so it is at least as efficient as just buying packs

Someone on Reddit crunched the numbers and assuming Blizzard follows their release schedule so far, the next adventure should be in December.

This means you should start saving in late October for the next adventure: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3j3j56/for_f2p_players_when_to_start_saving_gold_for_the/

[Jormengand]

Mirror Entities. Mirror Image only produces beautiful, beautiful images of yourself, which you totally only use in middle of battle to distract enemies, and not for practising perfect kissing techniques and ... I mean, I mix up the names of those two spells too sometimes.

Man, if I could cast Mirror Image...

It's a pity that Medivh/people who've used Lorewalker Cho still get MIs of Jaina.

[Anarion]

Man, if I could cast Mirror Image...

It's a pity that Medivh/people who've used Lorewalker Cho still get MIs of Jaina.

Yes, who would possibly want to be able to create images of Jaina on command. Hahaha, what a silly idea.

>_>
<_<

[Jormengand]

Yes, who would possibly want to be able to create images of Jaina on command. Hahaha, what a silly idea.

>_>
<_<

Bear in mind that they do taunt you, though. And creating tons of pictures of a hot girl just for them all to taunt you... well...

[Mando Knight]

Bear in mind that they do taunt you, though. And creating tons of pictures of a hot girl just for them all to taunt you... well...

They taunt for you. Unless someone changes their mind.

[Gandariel]

So, I drafted paladin yesterday. Didn't get Swords, consecration or Blessings, but I did get three murloc knights. (And a solid curve and card quality )

Oh god.
Turn 6 Murloc Knight, hero power (summon a murloc knight)
Turn 7 Mukla's knight hero power.

Even without the lucky murloc knight spawn, the combo is ridiculous. A full board of good sized threats for the price of two cards.

The deck eventually went 10-3. Turns out repeated Flamestrikes are a good counter to my combo.

Also, turns out Seal of Champion is pretty much the same as Blessing of Kings for 1 less mana UNLESS you play it on a 1-hp dude. Then it becomes kinda weak.

[Xiander]

So I tried to make a Bubble Paladin deck... and it is not working. It manages to drop my opponent to below ten but consistently fails to finish. I put the list in spoilers below and would like your opinions on what can be done to make it more competetive.

Bear in mind, that I want the deck to be full of shiny bubbles, Even if I could do better with another decktype :smallsmile:

2x Blessing of Might
2x Blessing of Wisdom
2x Argent squire
2x Equality
2x Annoy-o-tron
2x Argent protector
2x Shielded minibot
2x Coghammer
1x Sword of Justice
1x Divine Favor
2x Seal of champions
2X Bloodknight
1X Eydis Darkbane
1x Fjola Lightbane
2x Truesilver Champion
2x Consecration
2x Murlock knight

[Destro_Yersul]

You might try blessing of kings, with all those bubbles floating around. Maybe drop sword of justice? It's a bit slow for an aggro deck.

[Cespenar]

Seems not enough card draw for that curve. Blessing of Wisdom rarely draws more than one card anyway.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I had a fun Murloc Knight moment in arena too!

Murloc Knight -> Murloc Knight

I later summoned an Old Murk-Eye (with both Murlock Knights still on the field) to trade into a Volcanic Drake. I went on to pretty much clear their field, and next turn I hero powered with 2x Murloc Knight again...and got the Warleader. They conceded.

[Mando Knight]

Rule #1 of Murloc Knight is don't let your opponent keep a Murloc Knight.

[Surrealistik]

Man, getting pitted against seven top ten netdecks in a row during Casual play while trying to complete quests for my ****ty classes; that's some great matchmaking there.

[Xiander]

Seems not enough card draw for that curve. Blessing of Wisdom rarely draws more than one card anyway.

After testing a good deal and substituting sword of justice with one Blessing of Kings, i tend to agree. I could use a bit more draw, but I don't know where to get it or what to drop for it. Divine favor andblessing of wisdom are pulling their weight, but One or two more draw sources would be good.

[Joran]

Man, getting pitted against seven top ten netdecks in a row during Casual play while trying to complete quests for my ****ty classes; that's some great matchmaking there.

That may have been me... I have a ranked win streak going that I didn't want to risk by playing Rogue, so I ended up playing Casual.

Crushed 3 people, although, they were running relatively competitive decks, including one Patron warrior who didn't seem to know what he was doing.

Edit: I would have played a Mech Rogue deck, but I was out of deck slots and didn't want to scrap one of my actual decks that I use =P

[GAAD]

Oh yes, crushing idiot Patrons who play Warsong Commanders on curve or Frothing Berserkers when I have a Truesilver up and don't follow up with anything and think Patron is a zoo deck is the best feeling ever.

[Corlindale]

I had a fun Murloc Knight moment in arena too!

Murloc Knight -> Murloc Knight

I later summoned an Old Murk-Eye (with both Murlock Knights still on the field) to trade into a Volcanic Drake. I went on to pretty much clear their field, and next turn I hero powered with 2x Murloc Knight again...and got the Warleader. They conceded.

I had Paletress summon Paletress earlier today :smallbiggrin: My opponent couldn't remove either of them, but sadly he committed suicide before I could experience the glory of double-summoning legendaries.

[Lethologica]

So I tried to make a Bubble Paladin deck... and it is not working. It manages to drop my opponent to below ten but consistently fails to finish. I put the list in spoilers below and would like your opinions on what can be done to make it more competetive.

Bear in mind, that I want the deck to be full of shiny bubbles, Even if I could do better with another decktype :smallsmile:

2x Blessing of Might
2x Blessing of Wisdom
2x Argent squire
2x Equality
2x Annoy-o-tron
2x Argent protector
2x Shielded minibot
2x Coghammer
1x Sword of Justice
1x Divine Favor
2x Seal of champions
2X Bloodknight
1X Eydis Darkbane
1x Fjola Lightbane
2x Truesilver Champion
2x Consecration
2x Murlock knight
Big Problem #1: Your critters mostly have low base values because they also have Divine Shield, but effects that grant Divine Shield are most effective on critters with high base values. This is anti-synergy.
Big Problem #2: Not enough one-drops or two-drops that are value/tempo alone on a board. Argent Squire and Shielded Minibot are the only ones. Four cards out of 30. That's a really slow start for an aggro deck.
Big Problem #3: If you play Blood Knight and he gets silenced, you lose.

FWIW the typical aggro Paladin (https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/vanqswisher-tgt-aggro-paladin) features lots of bubbles already. Maybe find a mix of that deck and your deck that'll maximize both bubbles and effectiveness.

[Surrealistik]

That may have been me... I have a ranked win streak going that I didn't want to risk by playing Rogue, so I ended up playing Casual.

Crushed 3 people, although, they were running relatively competitive decks, including one Patron warrior who didn't seem to know what he was doing.

Edit: I would have played a Mech Rogue deck, but I was out of deck slots and didn't want to scrap one of my actual decks that I use =P

What deck were you running? I probably won't remember though because all of them were different with the exception of two very cookie cutter Patrons, like, cookie cutter to the point they were lifted straight from Tempostorm/Hearthstonetopdeck.

I _did_ win 2 of those 7 matchups though, and nearly won a third (losing with the enemy at 1 hp because I misclicked my Shattered Sun Cleric's +1/+1 which actually made all the difference; many hairs were lost); felt really good in spite of the buttrape, especially the win where I dropped double stonecleave axes and Windfury on a 2/1 dink and instantly brought a guy from 16 life to nothing; he totally didn't see that **** coming (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYVl6mOhLJQ).

I suppose the other vindicating take away is that my MMR was apparently reasonably high to be running into these sorts of decks.

[Joran]

What deck were you running? I probably won't remember though because all of them were different with the exception of two very cookie cutter Patrons, like, cookie cutter to the point they were lifted straight from Tempostorm/Hearthstonetopdeck.

I _did_ win 2 of those 7 matchups though, and nearly won a third (losing with the enemy at 1 hp because I misclicked my Shattered Sun Cleric's +1/+1 which actually made all the difference; many hairs were lost); felt really good in spite of the buttrape, especially the win where I dropped double stonecleave axes and Windfury on a 2/1 dink and instantly brought a guy from 16 life to nothing; he totally didn't see that **** coming.

I suppose the other vindicating take away is that my MMR was apparently reasonably high to be running into these sorts of decks.

I was running Oil Rogue. The basic concept is to put sticky minions in the deck and then buff your dagger and them with Tinker's Sharpsword Oil to do ridiculous damage. Blade Flurry is always fun since it damages face as well as all the minions.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't me, just because I was doing this last night and the Hearthstone player base is large enough. I felt kind of bad taking a meta deck that I know somewhat how to play, but I didn't want to ruin my winning streak (those delicious stars!)

And yes, beating meta decks with a value deck is all sorts of awesome.

P.S. Have you tried playing Ranked? It's not that bad at the lower ranks, except for the beginning of the month, when the ladder resets.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, didn't fight a single Rogue on that entire run; would have been amusing to know I got crushed by a fellow playgrounder though. :smalltongue:


P.S. Have you tried playing Ranked? It's not that bad at the lower ranks, except for the beginning of the month, when the ladder resets.

Yeah, my aggro Druid deck has thus far streaked from 25 to 19 without a loss. I know that's going to change very soon though, and I have seen a top ten netdeck or two along the way; really scary, close matches. I remember barely winning one because I dropped Soul of the Forest, and the opposing deck just didn't have enough firepower to wipe the board _and_ kill off the spawning treants while he was in the low single digits.

[MacGiolla]

So I'm sure everyone else has figured this out already but unstable portal plus effigy can be all sorts of awesome. I dropped a kel thazud onto an empty board on turn 5. He cleared his own board plus a frost bolt to get rid of him, because you can't really leave him on the board which turned into a Ragnoros followed by concede.

[Cespenar]

I've been trying to make a Patron Warrior variant with Axe Flinger and Wild Pyro, and been failing miserably. Either I don't know my business, or creating a wacky deck that is also viable is no small feat. Or both.

[Rosstin]

Prediction: Warsong Commander nerfed to "Minions with 3 or less attack have charge."

It's the only thing that makes sense.

They don't want to introduce formats. But they can't release an expansion that has so little effect on the meta like this.

[Fleeing Coward]

Considering the amount of pallies and mages I've been seeing ranking on EU this month, I'd say the meta actually changed quite abit since TGT release.

[Mando Knight]

Prediction: Warsong Commander nerfed to "Minions with 3 or less attack have charge."

It's the only thing that makes sense.

Yeah, that would kill Math Warrior forever (the Warsong + Frothing + lots of little points of damage win condition existed before BRM, Patron and Thaurissan simply made it a reliable one), since the big issue is when the Warrior can drop a Warsong and Frothing on any kind of board and end up with an Enough/1 with Charge to go slam your face with. A nerf to Patron would simply make the Patron a lot harder to use outside of a Warrior deck, so the sensible nerf (IMO) would be to the core Warsong + Frothing combo itself, either by making it harder to deal enough damage to the board to make Frothing OTK while keeping him alive, or by making Warsong an aura instead of an after-summon effect.

Incidentally, Warsong's original effect in Beta was an aura that gave all of the owner's minions Charge, which was obviously OP as well since you didn't need to ramp up a Frothing Berserker to get a couple big chargers on the board.

[Zevox]

Incidentally, Warsong's original effect in Beta was an aura that gave all of the owner's minions Charge, which was obviously OP as well since you didn't need to ramp up a Frothing Berserker to get a couple big chargers on the board.
Ah, the days of charging Molten Giants dealing 50+ damage in one turn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2CzqqINh5s&t=32m57s).

[Fleeing Coward]

Yeah, that would kill Math Warrior forever (the Warsong + Frothing + lots of little points of damage win condition existed before BRM, Patron and Thaurissan simply made it a reliable one), since the big issue is when the Warrior can drop a Warsong and Frothing on any kind of board and end up with an Enough/1 with Charge to go slam your face with. A nerf to Patron would simply make the Patron a lot harder to use outside of a Warrior deck, so the sensible nerf (IMO) would be to the core Warsong + Frothing combo itself, either by making it harder to deal enough damage to the board to make Frothing OTK while keeping him alive, or by making Warsong an aura instead of an after-summon effect.

Incidentally, Warsong's original effect in Beta was an aura that gave all of the owner's minions Charge, which was obviously OP as well since you didn't need to ramp up a Frothing Berserker to get a couple big chargers on the board.

Even though I don't think they will be applying any nerfs, if a nerf happens, it will be to Thaurissan by moving his trigger to the beginning of your turn like Pagle. Without Thaurissan, Warsong+Patron+Berserker is 11 mana (plus 1 for each whirlwind) which means it'll requires a setup turn which Blizzard is perfectly fine with.

[Gandariel]

@Patron: The other usually proposed fix is "nerf Frothing to a 2/3, so that he can only survive TWO whirlwinds".


Anyways, just had a really fun game as Echo mage vs Control warrior.

The highlight of the game was the fact that i played Alextrasza three turns in a row to heal, and got him to fatigue after destroying his Varian with Doomsayer Nova.
Oh, and i had another Alex in hand, just in case.

[The_Jackal]

@Patron: The other usually proposed fix is "nerf Frothing to a 2/3, so that he can only survive TWO whirlwinds".

The correct fix is to drop the Grim Patron to a 2/3. By themselves, Warsong Commander and Frothing Berserker weren't particularly frightening, so let's stop pretending that they're the problem cards, okay? Grim Patron is way, WAY too good in the constructed format. It doesn't make the patron unplayable, just reduces the speed with which it can achieve lethal.

[Mando Knight]

The correct fix is to drop the Grim Patron to a 2/3. By themselves, Warsong Commander and Frothing Berserker weren't particularly frightening, so let's stop pretending that they're the problem cards, okay? Grim Patron is way, WAY too good in the constructed format. It doesn't make the patron unplayable, just reduces the speed with which it can achieve lethal.

I don't think changing Patron to a 2/3 will do much of anything. Aggro decks (which press the Patron Warrior to play an incomplete combo to clear the board or lose) would still get cleaned out because a lot of their stuff will be at 2 or less health after a Whirlwind or two, and it does nothing to the Warsong-Frothing-Patron combo that is an OTK thanks to Thaurissan. Potentially on a completely empty board. Patron Warrior without the Frothing Berserkers is just a deck built around a strong turn that can be wiped by a good board clear the next turn.


On another topic, this week's Brawl is another build-a-deck Brawl, this time all your Deathrattles proc twice. Shredder is ridiculous, Ancestral Spirit on Shredder will literally flood your board with just two cards (Reincarnate and Redemption help, too). Bring a couple Silences.

[Hamste]

I don't think changing Patron to a 2/3 will do much of anything. Aggro decks (which press the Patron Warrior to play an incomplete combo to clear the board or lose) would still get cleaned out because a lot of their stuff will be at 2 or less health after a Whirlwind or two, and it does nothing to the Warsong-Frothing-Patron combo that is an OTK thanks to Thaurissan. Potentially on a completely empty board. Patron Warrior without the Frothing Berserkers is just a deck built around a strong turn that can be wiped by a good board clear the next turn.


On another topic, this week's Brawl is another build-a-deck Brawl, this time all your Deathrattles proc twice. Shredder is ridiculous, Ancestral Spirit on Shredder will literally flood your board with just two cards (Reincarnate and Redemption help, too). Bring a couple Silences.

How does that interact with the Baron?

[Mando Knight]

How does that interact with the Baron?

Baron never stacks, so don't include him in your deck.

[The_Jackal]

I don't think changing Patron to a 2/3 will do much of anything. Aggro decks (which press the Patron Warrior to play an incomplete combo to clear the board or lose) would still get cleaned out because a lot of their stuff will be at 2 or less health after a Whirlwind or two, and it does nothing to the Warsong-Frothing-Patron combo that is an OTK thanks to Thaurissan. Potentially on a completely empty board.

I think it takes less to dislodge a deck from the meta than you might think. Nerfing the Gadgetzan Auctioneer only pushed its mana cost up by one, yet it went from being a dominant component to the meta to completely non-existent. The notion that Patron could have one less attack and yet still be viable against aggro is more evidence, I think, that it's an appropriate nerf. Going from 3 to 2 attack also opens it up to shenanigans like Cabal Shadow Priest.


Patron Warrior without the Frothing Berserkers is just a deck built around a strong turn that can be wiped by a good board clear the next turn.

There's lots of decks that can deliver a big chunk of damage in an OTK, when their combo shows up, though. What makes patron so strong currently is that it's components are strong enough outside the combo to hang in there in an attrition battle until the combo can be brought to bear. In any case, my point remains: "Patron created this problem, Patron should be nerfed to fix it".


On another topic, this week's Brawl is another build-a-deck Brawl, this time all your Deathrattles proc twice. Shredder is ridiculous, Ancestral Spirit on Shredder will literally flood your board with just two cards (Reincarnate and Redemption help, too). Bring a couple Silences.

How about Feign Death? I can see that Mass Dispel is going to get work on this one.

[Surrealistik]

Win 3 games with Warlock; my absolute _worst_ class in terms of card ownership.

FML; good bye MMR.

[Gandariel]

Eh, you can still toss it back.

Also, build a zoo. you only need two doomguards, for the rest just chuck whatever early game stuff you have lying around

[AgentPaper]

Really like this brawl. Seems like exactly the kind of zany ridiculous rule change that I was hoping it would be.

Shaman is the obvious choice, with great synergy in Reincarnate and Ancestral Spirit. Also has some nice tools to enable Nerubian Egg, and Hex is basically required to deal with enemy deathrattle stuff.

Surprisingly good cards include Leper Gnome, who can do a lot of work very quickly. Put Ancestral Spirit on him, and that's 12 damage just from his deathrattle. Add in Reincarnate, and you have a 5 mana, 3-card combo that deals 16 damage from nowhere.

Another surprisingly good card is Bloodlust, simply because stuff like Haunted Creeper, Nerubian Egg, Harvest Golem, and Piloted Shredder tend to leave a lot of bodies around, and it's not uncommon to deal 20+ damage in one round, turning an even game into a victory then and there, which can be important when your opponent just got three 11/11 Thaddiuses onto the board last turn.

[Surrealistik]

In more positive news: Soul of the Forest plus this brawl; easy money.


Eh, you can still toss it back.

Also, build a zoo. you only need two doomguards, for the rest just chuck whatever early game stuff you have lying around

Haha, need to get the dust first! Trying to save up for Naxx.

[Surrealistik]

Well... That was... surprisingly easy.

Beat Aggro Shaman, what seemed to be mid-range Hunter (possibly aggro; tried to UNLEASH THE HOUNDS + Scavenging Hyena wombo combo me, but died the following turn), and Weapon Rogue. Lost to Tempo/Aggro Mage.

With a complete **** decklist like this: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/328335-plebeian-trash-warlock-deck

[Zevox]

Eh, I'd say I like this Brawl more than the usual "let's just add more RNG to the game" ones, but less than the extra mana ones or the preconstructed deck ones.

The main thing that keeps me from really liking it is that it feels like it restricts deck options more than anything else. You absolutely have to throw in all the good deathrattles (Shredder, Creeper, Loot Hoarder, Nerubian Egg, etc), then add whatever class cards seem good, some silence because you know your opponent will have a ton of deathrattles, and maybe Undertaker and/or Lil Exorcist if you can fit them, and that's pretty much the deck, every time. You can maybe tweak it more towards aggro (Leper Gnome) or control (Piloted Sky Golem, Sneed's Old Shredder), but most decks will look a lot alike, which is kind of dull.

[Surrealistik]

Agreed, it's pretty lame/centralizing, and absolutely brutal for new players who have zero access to good DR cards. The only reason it wasn't horrible for me was because I had a playset of Soul of the Forest which amounted to win conditions.

[ShinyRocks]

Really like this brawl. Seems like exactly the kind of zany ridiculous rule change that I was hoping it would be.

It was quite fun. Lots of Nerubians! LOTS of skittles from Haunted Creepers! Double traps from my Mad Scientist! I ran Hunter for Webspinner and Highmane shenanigans (which never amounted to anything, sadly).

That said, I don't like the Brawls where you have to build decks. This one's not toooooo bad, because you can do okay with cheap deathrattle cards, but I think Brawl should be completely even footing, weird, fun, random stuff. Or prebuilt decks. Deck-building ones just favour the people with big collections. We've already got Constructed for that.

[The_Jackal]

It was quite fun. Lots of Nerubians! LOTS of skittles from Haunted Creepers! Double traps from my Mad Scientist! I ran Hunter for Webspinner and Highmane shenanigans (which never amounted to anything, sadly).

That said, I don't like the Brawls where you have to build decks. This one's not toooooo bad, because you can do okay with cheap deathrattle cards, but I think Brawl should be completely even footing, weird, fun, random stuff. Or prebuilt decks. Deck-building ones just favour the people with big collections. We've already got Constructed for that.

I kind of agree, I'd like to see more 'you play the deck we build' decks, as it evens out opportunities for players, plus it offers some interesting possibilites, like violating the 2 card cap.

[Zevox]

I kind of agree, I'd like to see more 'you play the deck we build' decks, as it evens out opportunities for players, plus it offers some interesting possibilites, like violating the 2 card cap.
I very much agree with that. Ragnaros v Nefarian and the TGT preview Brawl were easily my favorites, entirely because they were prebuilt decks. Also partially because they let you play with cards you didn't normally have access to (granted only because they weren't out yet in the latter case, but still), but I think even a Brawl with prebuilt decks that didn't have anything not normally available would still be more fun than any other type of Brawl they've done.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Just realized this Brawl makes Dr. Balanced even more balanced. :smalltongue:

[The_Jackal]

Just realized this Brawl makes Dr. Balanced even more balanced. :smalltongue:

I hereby propose that we change Dr. Balanced's name to 'Omnipresent Goblin', in honor of a great hero of our time (http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2010/1/10/how-to-write-a-superhero-story.html).

[Hamste]

Eh, I'd say I like this Brawl more than the usual "let's just add more RNG to the game" ones, but less than the extra mana ones or the preconstructed deck ones.

The main thing that keeps me from really liking it is that it feels like it restricts deck options more than anything else. You absolutely have to throw in all the good deathrattles (Shredder, Creeper, Loot Hoarder, Nerubian Egg, etc), then add whatever class cards seem good, some silence because you know your opponent will have a ton of deathrattles, and maybe Undertaker and/or Lil Exorcist if you can fit them, and that's pretty much the deck, every time. You can maybe tweak it more towards aggro (Leper Gnome) or control (Piloted Sky Golem, Sneed's Old Shredder), but most decks will look a lot alike, which is kind of dull.

Knife Juggler is pretty good as well thanks to double deathrattle summons.

[The_Jackal]

Knife Juggler is pretty good as well thanks to double deathrattle summons.

I think he's a bit of a 'win more' choice, since your can rely on your opponents to kill him first unless you contrive to stop them. That said, Turn 2 creeper into turn 3 juggalo did get a lot stronger.

[TechnoWarforged]

Went face huntard for this Tavern Brawl mainly due to having the 2 win hunter/druid quest. I don't feel like rerolling because I'm having terrible luck with quest lately.

lost the first match vs another face hunter... ball of spiders became decent because the 1/1 spiders are giving you two beast and refill your hand quickly late game. I counter with lil exoist but he just keep running spiders into it until he got an owl to silence me. I got him down to 4 but he played a king of beast and it was GG for me.

The next one was vs a Shaman... I'm guessing he's trying the reincarnate combo but it was just too slow. He had Feugen out but decided to hit my face and triggered my freezing trap. I managed to finished him off before I get to see what the rest of his deck look like.

Then I got pitted against a zoo... he could have won but he decided to hit my harvest golem with my knife juggler still on the board... it spawned 2 2/1 and it killed the rest of the 1/1 he had on the table... He hellfired anyways but I just played more sticky creatures afterwards and just out raced him in dmg.




Then with sufficient gold I tried an arena:

(Mage)/Warrior/Hunter

1.(Argent Commander)/Crazed Alchemist/Ancient Mage

2.(Sooth spewer)/Grim Patron/Young Priestess

I was tempted to take Grim Patron. Not sure why it's ranked so low...

3.(Harvest Golem)/Grimscale Oracle/Silverhand Regent

I'm tempted to pick Regent... I think the sure 2/1 spawn is better then a possiblity of many 1/1 spawns later...

4.(Flame Cannon)/Unstable Ghoul/Lord of the Arena

5.(Draknoid Crusher)/Lost Tallstrider/Darkscale Healer

6.(Earthen farseerer)Razorfen Hunter/Ice Barrier

7.(Boneguard Liet)/Venture co Merc/Southsea Deckhand

I'm flooded with a lot of decent 3 drops but not seeing any 2s... and the venture co is very tempting pick... not sure if I picked correctly

8.(Murkla's Champion)/Blackwing Corruptor/Arcane explosion

Heartharena say Blackwing Corruptor (by a bit) due to synergy with Draknoid Crusker, but even without the synergy the 5/4 body is better then the 4/3 body...I think I've made a mistake here.

9.(Bluegrill Warrior)/Tournament Attendee/Murloc Tidehunter

10.(Kirin Tor Mage)/Counterspell/Fencing Coach

11.(Lost Tallstrider)/War Golem/Mad scientist

Feels like I missed the Mad scientist here... Heartharena say Last Tallstrider by a mile... then again it's pick 11.

12.(Flamestrike)/Fen Creeper/Pilot Shredder

13. (Argent Horsemen)/Mirror Image/Tournament Attendee

14. (Tinkertown tech)/Wisp/Shieldbearer

15. (Pilot Shredder)/Frost Elemental/Murloc Raider

16. (Frost Elemental)/Arcane Intellect/Duplicate

17. (Ice Barrier)/Arcane Explosion/Ironforge Riftlemen

Hearthstone Arena actually says to pick Arcane explosion! I kinda loled.

18. (Polymorph Boar)/master swordsmith/Gagetzen Auctioneer

19. (Frostbolt)/Flesheating Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer

20. (Grand Crusader)/Clockwork Giant/Spellbinder

21. (Mechwarper)/Salty dog/Archmage

22. (Sorceress Apprentice)/Northsea Kraken/Argent Squire

Heartharena says release the Kraken! but I wanted the girl :(

23. (Lowly Squire)/Flamelance/Scarlet Crusader

Heartharena says Flamelance. I would have picked Crusader but I'm flooded with 3 drops

24. (Sunwalker)/Goblin Blastmage/Coliseum Manger

Heartharena says Blastmage from all the mech I have. I think Sunwalker is the safer choice.

25. (Novice Engineer) / Silent Knight/ Raging Worgan

Heartharena says silent Knight... I'm thinking this is probably my last chance at a 2 drop.

26. (Flamestrike)/Grimscale Oracle/Mana Wyrm

27. (Mana Wyrm)/War Golem/Spellbinder

Really tempted to picked the War Golem because I don't have a finisher. Mana Wyrm for early game.

28. (Spellbreaker)/Goldshire Footman/Gurbashi Berserker

29. (Questing Adventurer)/Flamewalker/Target Dummy

Heartharena says flamewalker due to all the spell synergy.

30. (Madder Bomber)/ Kirin Tor Mage/ Saboteur


So far I'm 3-0. Looking back I don't think I've made good picks but the two flamestrike carried me. I actually went to reddit and saw a posting about kripp's advince on Arena... I tried to remember some of the advice including envisioning my deck's win condition... which in this case is mid-range... I need to survive and do some damage into the mid game and then go for the face because I got no big creatures into the late game. I need to bait a lot of creatures out and then flame strike them and then start the damage race.

This is also the best deck I've drafted mainly due to dumb luck (two flamestrike, Flame cannon, and a Frost bolt) but it's also strange since I got so many three drops. We'll see if my luck continues.

[Joran]

I think it takes less to dislodge a deck from the meta than you might think. Nerfing the Gadgetzan Auctioneer only pushed its mana cost up by one, yet it went from being a dominant component to the meta to completely non-existent. The notion that Patron could have one less attack and yet still be viable against aggro is more evidence, I think, that it's an appropriate nerf. Going from 3 to 2 attack also opens it up to shenanigans like Cabal Shadow Priest.

There's lots of decks that can deliver a big chunk of damage in an OTK, when their combo shows up, though. What makes patron so strong currently is that it's components are strong enough outside the combo to hang in there in an attrition battle until the combo can be brought to bear. In any case, my point remains: "Patron created this problem, Patron should be nerfed to fix it".


The reason why Patron Warrior is so much better and consistent than Math Warrior is because the Patron's self-replicating ability means that the warrior can now provide his own board to combo for large Frothing Berserkers Turns as well as a flood of Patrons providing an additional win condition. Most people's problem isn't with Patrons themselves (almost all classes have ways of removing a flood of 3 health minions), but with the ridiculous OTK damage conditions where even armoring up to 25 with an empty board doesn't protect them. Reducing their damage to 2 would lower the power of the deck a bit, but it wouldn't solve the underlying problem of really heavily buffed Frothings. Some decks can do a lot of burst from hand (hello Malygos), but not 50+.

Back when Blizzard was still nerfing cards, they nerfed Miracle Rogue and they nerfed Buzzard + Unleash because they didn't think OTK combos were fun and they didn't think punishing someone for playing minions was fun either. Frothing Berserker violates both.

Honestly, I think Patron is a fun deck that seems mostly balanced (except for heavy control decks), but it has a pretty good matchup percentage against all decks, with no clear weaknesses and can be frustrating to play against.

I've seen a lot of suggestions about what to nerf, with a lot of people targeting different pieces:

Emperor Thaurissan nerfs:

1) Stop him from reducing costs below 1: This already has precedence in cards like Summoning Portal. Would stop some of really big frothing turns by limiting the number of free whirlwind effects.

2) Make Thaurissan proc at the beginning of the turn: Frankly, this would kill the card and make it unplayable. I've rarely seen Thaurissan live past one turn and a 6 mana 5/5 is terrible.

Warsong Commander nerfs:

1) Limit the charge given to minions to 3 or below; if the creature goes above then charge is removed: I don't find this to be that overpowering since I do like the Inner Rage Patron getting charge and there are other cards like Raging Worgen that would be affected.

Frothing Berserker nerfs:

1) I think Trump was the one who suggested Frothing Berserkers get nerfed to 2/3 so that only 2 whirlwind effects can be used: I wonder how much this limits the "out of hand" OTKs with no board.
2) Berserkers only proc on friendly minions taking damage: I like this nerf quite a bit since it does fix the problem where enemies were scared to play minions because it'd add more damage to the berserkers.

Battle Rage nerfs:

1) Brian Kibler suggested that since Patron is a combo deck, attacking the insane card draw of Battle Rage might be the answer. He suggested that it only draw cards from damaged minions, excluding face damage. That makes it useless as just a plain cycle and lowers the card draw and thus time for the Patron Warrior to draw the requisite combo cards.

[AgentPaper]

I've seen the suggestion to make Frothing Berserker a 3/3, and I think that's a good one. It has all the benefits of making it a 2/3 (only two whirlwind effects rather than 3), but with a slight buff to damage to ease the pain a bit.

More than anything, I think the key thing to keep in mind is that Patron Warrior isn't a problem because it's powerful (it is, but not as dominant as problem decks of the past, and that dominance is already slipping), it's a problem because of the explosive burst potential it has. Being able to deal that much damage in a single turn is not healthy for the game, regardless of whether it makes the deck too strong or not.

[Lethologica]

2.(Sooth spewer)/Grim Patron/Young Priestess

I was tempted to take Grim Patron. Not sure why it's ranked so low...
3/3 for 5. In Mage, 6/5 for 7, so not as bad. Still, unless you get quite lucky, you're getting subpar value.


3.(Harvest Golem)/Grimscale Oracle/Silverhand Regent

I'm tempted to pick Regent... I think the sure 2/1 spawn is better then a possiblity of many 1/1 spawns later...
Golem is easily the better card.


7.(Boneguard Liet)/Venture co Merc/Southsea Deckhand

I'm flooded with a lot of decent 3 drops but not seeing any 2s... and the venture co is very tempting pick... not sure if I picked correctly
I'd pick Venture Co. here, but I'm greedy. Boneguard is fine.


8.(Murkla's Champion)/Blackwing Corruptor/Arcane explosion

Heartharena say Blackwing Corruptor (by a bit) due to synergy with Draknoid Crusker, but even without the synergy the 5/4 body is better then the 4/3 body...I think I've made a mistake here.
I like Mukla's because it's a luxury pick no matter what else you pick. Corruptor is bad unless you draft at least a few other dragons, which probably means making suboptimal picks, which is never worth it.


11.(Lost Tallstrider)/War Golem/Mad scientist

Feels like I missed the Mad scientist here... Heartharena say Last Tallstrider by a mile... then again it's pick 11.
If you already had a couple good secrets you'd pick Mad Scientist, but otherwise, no.


17. (Ice Barrier)/Arcane Explosion/Ironforge Riftlemen

Hearthstone Arena actually says to pick Arcane explosion! I kinda loled.
I'd pick Arcane Explosion. It's more likely to do something useful.


22. (Sorceress Apprentice)/Northsea Kraken/Argent Squire

Heartharena says release the Kraken! but I wanted the girl :(
Definitely release the kraken.


23. (Lowly Squire)/Flamelance/Scarlet Crusader

Heartharena says Flamelance. I would have picked Crusader but I'm flooded with 3 drops
Squire is the worst pick of the three. Flame Lance is a giant-killer, Crusader almost always generates card or tempo advantage. Squire is basically a 3/2 for 3 or a 1/2 for 1, which is weak sauce.


24. (Sunwalker)/Goblin Blastmage/Coliseum Manger

Heartharena says Blastmage from all the mech I have. I think Sunwalker is the safer choice.
Four mechs. Eh. I think Sunwalker is safer too.


25. (Novice Engineer) / Silent Knight/ Raging Worgan

Heartharena says silent Knight... I'm thinking this is probably my last chance at a 2 drop.
Novice Engineer isn't a 2-drop, it's a cycle card. I'd actually give preference to Raging Worgen, but Silent Knight is about as good.


29. (Questing Adventurer)/Flamewalker/Target Dummy

Heartharena says flamewalker due to all the spell synergy.
Flamewaker is really good. I'd have picked it.

[The_Jackal]

almost all classes have ways of removing a flood of 3 health minions

Really? This is news to me, because last I checked, the only classes with a non-combo AOE3 were Warlock and Mage. This must be some definition of 'all classes' with which I'm not yet familiar.


Some decks can do a lot of burst from hand (hello Malygos), but not 50+.

Doing 50 damage from hand is only a problem for Wallet Warrior, because 30 will do the trick for literally everyone else.


Back when Blizzard was still nerfing cards, they nerfed Miracle Rogue and they nerfed Buzzard + Unleash because they didn't think OTK combos were fun and they didn't think punishing someone for playing minions was fun either. Frothing Berserker violates both.

If that's true, the Sea Giant and Mind Control tech should also get nerfed, not to mention every sweeper spell in the game. I'd argue the justification behind the Buzzard and Auctioneer nerfs was the near-infinite single-turn draw potential they offered. By that logic, the card to nerf is battle rage, but that seems like a poor choice, given that, again, the card wasn't a problem before BRM.


Honestly, I think Patron is a fun deck that seems mostly balanced (except for heavy control decks), but it has a pretty good matchup percentage against all decks, with no clear weaknesses and can be frustrating to play against.

I've seen a lot of suggestions about what to nerf, with a lot of people targeting different pieces:

Emperor Thaurissan nerfs:

1) Stop him from reducing costs below 1: This already has precedence in cards like Summoning Portal. Would stop some of really big frothing turns by limiting the number of free whirlwind effects.

2) Make Thaurissan proc at the beginning of the turn: Frankly, this would kill the card and make it unplayable. I've rarely seen Thaurissan live past one turn and a 6 mana 5/5 is terrible.

Warsong Commander nerfs:

1) Limit the charge given to minions to 3 or below; if the creature goes above then charge is removed: I don't find this to be that overpowering since I do like the Inner Rage Patron getting charge and there are other cards like Raging Worgen that would be affected.

Frothing Berserker nerfs:

1) I think Trump was the one who suggested Frothing Berserkers get nerfed to 2/3 so that only 2 whirlwind effects can be used: I wonder how much this limits the "out of hand" OTKs with no board.
2) Berserkers only proc on friendly minions taking damage: I like this nerf quite a bit since it does fix the problem where enemies were scared to play minions because it'd add more damage to the berserkers.

Battle Rage nerfs:

1) Brian Kibler suggested that since Patron is a combo deck, attacking the insane card draw of Battle Rage might be the answer. He suggested that it only draw cards from damaged minions, excluding face damage. That makes it useless as just a plain cycle and lowers the card draw and thus time for the Patron Warrior to draw the requisite combo cards.

Another notion would be to nerf Patron such that it doesn't summon itself, but another 3/3 card, like Kodorider. You'd probably have to knock the cost down to a 4-drop, but that would limit the insane board spam that Patron can achieve.

[The_Jackal]

In other news, I got a kidnapper in a pack from my last Arena run (went 9/3, my best in quite a while). That's an auto-dust card, right? It sure seems like garbage.

[Zevox]

2.(Sooth spewer)/Grim Patron/Young Priestess

I was tempted to take Grim Patron. Not sure why it's ranked so low...
Because outside of a deck constructed around it, it's a bad card. A 3/3 for 5, or a 3/2 and 3/3 for 7 in Mage - both quite bad and very likely to die easily.


11.(Lost Tallstrider)/War Golem/Mad scientist

Feels like I missed the Mad scientist here... Heartharena say Last Tallstrider by a mile... then again it's pick 11.
You don't take Mad Scientist when you don't have good secrets.


17. (Ice Barrier)/Arcane Explosion/Ironforge Riftlemen

Hearthstone Arena actually says to pick Arcane explosion! I kinda loled.
Being brutally honest, your own pick is the laughable one. Ice Barrier is nigh useless in arena, as it does nothing for board control, which is what decides the game in that format. This was between Arcane Explosion and Ironforge Rifelman. Personally, I think I'd lean towards the Rifelman, just due to it being a body with an upside, even if both are weak for the cost, but there's an argument to be made for either.



23. (Lowly Squire)/Flamelance/Scarlet Crusader

Heartharena says Flamelance. I would have picked Crusader but I'm flooded with 3 drops
No matter how many 3 drops you had, Crusader would be a better pick than Lowly Squire. A 1/2 for 1 is poor, and a 2/2 for 3 if you hero power when you play it is hardly better. With your quantity of 3s, though, I would say take the Flamelance instead.


25. (Novice Engineer) / Silent Knight/ Raging Worgan

Heartharena says silent Knight... I'm thinking this is probably my last chance at a 2 drop.
Engineer was almost certainly the worst of the three. I can't be as certain of Silent Knight, since I haven't played arena since TGT dropped, but Raging Worgen is definitely far better than the Engineer, regardless of how many 3s you had.


29. (Questing Adventurer)/Flamewalker/Target Dummy

Heartharena says flamewalker due to all the spell synergy.
It's also just plain a more reliable, solid card than Questing Adventurer. So yeah, should've been the pick.


In other news, I got a kidnapper in a pack from my last Arena run (went 9/3, my best in quite a while). That's an auto-dust card, right? It sure seems like garbage.
Oh yeah, definitely.

[Gandariel]

Comments! comments everywhere!



(Mage)/Warrior/Hunter

2.(Sooth spewer)/Grim Patron/Young Priestess
I was tempted to take Grim Patron. Not sure why it's ranked so low...
Because it's bad if your whole deck isn't tailored around it

7.(Boneguard Liet)/Venture co Merc/Southsea Deckhand
I would have probably taken Venture Co. It's still pick 7, you can go with the best card

8.(Murkla's Champion)/Blackwing Corruptor/Arcane explosion
Heartharena say Blackwing Corruptor (by a bit) due to synergy with Draknoid Crusker, but even without the synergy the 5/4 body is better then the 4/3 body...I think I've made a mistake here.
Mukla's Champion is surprisingly good. The Corruptor is really, really good if you have the dragons, though. If you draft more dragons, Corruptor is better for sure. Otherwise Mukla's is better. It's a bet, and you chose the "safer" one. Not a mistake

11.(Lost Tallstrider)/War Golem/Mad scientist
Feels like I missed the Mad scientist here... Heartharena say Last Tallstrider by a mile... then again it's pick 11.
I'd take Scientist. 19 more picks, you have a good chance of finding a secret sooner or later. And mad scientist with a secret is pretty much broken.

17. (Ice Barrier)/Arcane Explosion/Ironforge Riftlemen
Hearthstone Arena actually says to pick Arcane explosion! I kinda loled.
Ice barrier was the worst of the lot. Both others are subpar but better than nothing. Ice barrier is a very, very weak card which doesn't do anything.

22. (Sorceress Apprentice)/Northsea Kraken/Argent Squire
Heartharena says release the Kraken! but I wanted the girl :(
The kraken *was* the best card. Did you need the 2s? i didn't check your curve

23. (Lowly Squire)/Flamelance/Scarlet Crusader
Heartharena says Flamelance. I would have picked Crusader but I'm flooded with 3 drops
Flamelance is OK removal, and scarlet crusader is premium 3. Maybe the curve tells you to avoid 3s, but i'd take Flamelance then.

25. (Novice Engineer) / Silent Knight/ Raging Worgan
Heartharena says silent Knight... I'm thinking this is probably my last chance at a 2 drop.
Novice isn't really a 2-drop. Either of the others was a better choice

29. (Questing Adventurer)/Flamewalker/Target Dummy
Heartharena says flamewalker due to all the spell synergy.
And Flamewaker is also the best card of the lot


This is also the best deck I've drafted mainly due to dumb luck (two flamestrike, Flame cannon, and a Frost bolt) but it's also strange since I got so many three drops. We'll see if my luck continues.

Flamecannon and Frostbolt aren't really the game-winning cards in a deck (more like Fireball and Water Elemental), but yeah, there are few "bad" cards there.

[Frog Dragon]

It has been several months since I last accomplished this. Last time was march I think.

http://i.imgur.com/zudqNfQ.png

[MCerberus]

I just starting poking my head back in to Hearthstone and it's making me really mad, since I keep being punked by cards that didn't exist when I played and couldn't possibly have.

The adventure cards are bad enough, since 750 gold is roughly 2 weeks worth of income for one wing.
Then I see the Shaman cards and just breath in the power creep.

About the only success I've been having is with my priest suddenly buffing minions to 30/30 (side note: it was heartening though, to note that owls are still the bane of everyone's existence)

[Gandariel]

Well, most "power creep OP op" cards are commons, so crafting them is not really a big deal.

Also, apparently Shaman is still bad (despite Tuskarr totemic and Totem Golem)

And frankly, this expansion did not bring much (if any) power creep. Most decks are still viable, with a few optional changes.

new decks have arisen, but they're not really more powerful than the "old" ones

[The_Jackal]

It has been several months since I last accomplished this. Last time was march I think.

http://i.imgur.com/zudqNfQ.png

Wow, that's brutal. If it makes you feel any better, I've done that a couple times too. Sometimes your draft and your mulligan conspire to kill you dead.

[Surrealistik]

I just starting poking my head back in to Hearthstone and it's making me really mad, since I keep being punked by cards that didn't exist when I played and couldn't possibly have.

The adventure cards are bad enough, since 750 gold is roughly 2 weeks worth of income for one wing.
Then I see the Shaman cards and just breath in the power creep.

About the only success I've been having is with my priest suddenly buffing minions to 30/30 (side note: it was heartening though, to note that owls are still the bane of everyone's existence)

As a new player, I totally hear you on the adventure wing cards; aside from maybe Patron (okay, and Secrets Paladin too; these still cost a decent amount of dust though, so you won't be getting em for awhile; they require adventure cards too!), the only way to run a cheap good deck is via aggro, and that all but demands Haunted Creepers if you don't want to be at a disadvantage; unlocking these via F2P for essential cards is kind of excruciating.

[MCerberus]

Well, most "power creep OP op" cards are commons, so crafting them is not really a big deal.

Also, apparently Shaman is still bad (despite Tuskarr totemic and Totem Golem)

And frankly, this expansion did not bring much (if any) power creep. Most decks are still viable, with a few optional changes.

new decks have arisen, but they're not really more powerful than the "old" ones

The problem being that being behind the meta reduces win rates and thus income potential, reducing the ability to get new cards. And then there's the sort of problem like having a Hunter deck built around beast sacking having the key cards nerfed.

[Joran]

Really? This is news to me, because last I checked, the only classes with a non-combo AOE3 were Warlock and Mage. This must be some definition of 'all classes' with which I'm not yet familiar.


Why are you limiting excluding combo sweeps? They're pretty common among meta decks and the opponent needs to combo cards to get multiple patrons anyway.

The ones I can think of are:

1) Rogue: Blade Flurry, +2 Spell Power + Fan of Knives (unlikely)
2) Mage: Flamestrike, Frost Nova + Doomsayer, Spell Power + Blizzard (less likely)
3) Priest: Lightbomb, Spell Power + Holy Nova (less likely)
4) Warrior: Brawl
5) Paladin: Equality + Consecrate
6) Warlock: Hellfire, Shadowflame + a minion
7) Shaman: Spell Power + Lightning Storm or Just Pray to RNGesus

Druid and Hunter are the only classes without a way of dealing with a board of 3 hp minions with current meta decks.



Doing 50 damage from hand is only a problem for Wallet Warrior, because 30 will do the trick for literally everyone else.


True and there are combo decks that can do a lot of damage in a turn. I am amused by the "He was behind massive taunts with 20+ health and still died" posts that populated reddit a lot.


If that's true, the Sea Giant and Mind Control tech should also get nerfed, not to mention every sweeper spell in the game. I'd argue the justification behind the Buzzard and Auctioneer nerfs was the near-infinite single-turn draw potential they offered. By that logic, the card to nerf is battle rage, but that seems like a poor choice, given that, again, the card wasn't a problem before BRM.

I hate Mind Control Tech with a fire that burns, especially in arena when you can't make an informed guess if you're playing against a deck with it.

Also, Patron allows pretty disgusting turns with battle rage where you create a flood of patrons and then draw to refill your hand; Thaurissan also helps. It makes Battle Rage a little more consistent than it was in Math Warrior.


I just starting poking my head back in to Hearthstone and it's making me really mad, since I keep being punked by cards that didn't exist when I played and couldn't possibly have.

The adventure cards are bad enough, since 750 gold is roughly 2 weeks worth of income for one wing.
Then I see the Shaman cards and just breath in the power creep.

About the only success I've been having is with my priest suddenly buffing minions to 30/30 (side note: it was heartening though, to note that owls are still the bane of everyone's existence)

Did you play before BRM? I can see that being an issue but TGT hasn't introduced much outside of Secret Paladin. Totem Shaman doesn't work well since it loses to Paladin pretty hard, which is very popular now.


I've been trying to make a Patron Warrior variant with Axe Flinger and Wild Pyro, and been failing miserably. Either I don't know my business, or creating a wacky deck that is also viable is no small feat. Or both.

You may want to take a gander at this video. Purple had a similar idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFf67aJ4p4&feature=youtu.be

[Cespenar]

So, Tavern Brawl. Everyone's playing Hunters and Shaman. Me? No, sirree, of course not!

I play Poor Man's Mysterious Challenger. :smalltongue:

Which basically means Paladin + all the secrets + Mad Scientist + Brewmaster minus Mysterious Challenger of course because I'm a scrub.

So far: four wins in a row, with two of them being concedes after they see 4 secrets on my face. Not a vast data pool, but man, fun times. The brewmasters work perfectly with those Owls as well as any silenced stuff.

[Chen]

The problem being that being behind the meta reduces win rates and thus income potential, reducing the ability to get new cards. And then there's the sort of problem like having a Hunter deck built around beast sacking having the key cards nerfed.

I'd suggest taking a look at Trump's basic decks. Very straight forward decks and still fairly strong. He's doing a free to play run right now. Not sure how far he's gotten so far. Someone tried another free to play run a little while back and made it to rank 4 I think in the month they gave themselves (granted probably a ton of time since they were a professional streamer). The key to playing free to play and reaching high ranks is basically getting good at arena. Otherwise your gold income is feebly low.

[otakuryoga]

i am doing quite well in brawl with Priest
12-1 so far
deck has 6 individual silences and 2 mass silence
all the sticky mechs of course
and multiple ways to use his cards against him

only loss was to a shaman beyond gawd draw
turn 3 he coins out a piloted shredder with no silence in my hand
turn 4 he attacks..ancestrals it(deathrattle:respawn this minion when it dies) and then reincarnates it..now i am looking at 2 spawns from it(dont remember what..not like it mattered) and 3 more shredders.............
yeah...game over





Druid and Hunter are the only classes without a way of dealing with a board of 3 hp minions with current meta decks.



hunter only..druid has "destroy all minions and replace em with treants" and/or spellpower + starfall

[Corlindale]

Priest is really nice in this brawl. Stealing deathrattles with Shadow Madness was always one of my favourite things in Priest, now it's twice as fun!

The funniest moment in the brawl so far was when my Shredder dropped two explosive sheep. That's basically Twisting Nether in this format :smallsmile:

[The_Jackal]

I'd suggest taking a look at Trump's basic decks. Very straight forward decks and still fairly strong. He's doing a free to play run right now. Not sure how far he's gotten so far. Someone tried another free to play run a little while back and made it to rank 4 I think in the month they gave themselves (granted probably a ton of time since they were a professional streamer). The key to playing free to play and reaching high ranks is basically getting good at arena. Otherwise your gold income is feebly low.

Also, you don't need to rank high to start chipping away at that card deficit, you just need to earn enough gold to get into the Arena and do moderately well in Arena. Once you're in Arena, the quality of your collection and the amount you've spent on cards doesn't matter.

Now I've gone on record saying that I think free to play games are inherently bad, since they effectively trade drudgery for fun to drive you towards paying the publisher. In the case of Hearthstone, the drudgery part is the frequent curbstompings free-tier players will experience at the hands of better-equipped players while they build their collection. But compared to some of the F2P garbage shenanigans I've seen in the marketplace, it's pretty innocuous.

[Anarion]

It has been several months since I last accomplished this. Last time was march I think.

http://i.imgur.com/zudqNfQ.png

Ouch, your deck doesn't even look that bad. Bad luck runs rampant, I suppose.


I just starting poking my head back in to Hearthstone and it's making me really mad, since I keep being punked by cards that didn't exist when I played and couldn't possibly have.

The adventure cards are bad enough, since 750 gold is roughly 2 weeks worth of income for one wing.
Then I see the Shaman cards and just breath in the power creep.

About the only success I've been having is with my priest suddenly buffing minions to 30/30 (side note: it was heartening though, to note that owls are still the bane of everyone's existence)


Well, most "power creep OP op" cards are commons, so crafting them is not really a big deal.

Also, apparently Shaman is still bad (despite Tuskarr totemic and Totem Golem)

And frankly, this expansion did not bring much (if any) power creep. Most decks are still viable, with a few optional changes.

new decks have arisen, but they're not really more powerful than the "old" ones

For what it's worth, I think that full on adventures are a good way to actually spend money to support the game. Buying cards pack after card pack in the hopes of chasing after some elusive legendary is a big money sink, but the expansions come out very rarely (there are all of 2 so far) and for $20 you get a fun experience, some strong new cards, and a bit of humor. Considering the time I've put in and enjoyed so far, I'm glad to give the game some support through that channel without breaking bank elsewhere.

[Chen]

For what it's worth, I think that full on adventures are a good way to actually spend money to support the game. Buying cards pack after card pack in the hopes of chasing after some elusive legendary is a big money sink, but the expansions come out very rarely (there are all of 2 so far) and for $20 you get a fun experience, some strong new cards, and a bit of humor. Considering the time I've put in and enjoyed so far, I'm glad to give the game some support through that channel without breaking bank elsewhere.

I definitely agree with this. The adventures are fun in and of themselves. It's also not gambling on packs, you get fixed cards. They're also more efficient when comparing real money to gold value than packs are. Buying the adventures with real money and then packs with gold, will net you more packs than doing the opposite (assuming the same amount of gold and real money spent in both cases).

[ShinyRocks]

I think Blizzard are going to have to do something about how hard it is for new players to catch up, sooner or later. It's still not toooo bad, but once another expansion comes out, that's more than 10,000 gold on wings. Now obviously you *can* build a collection for free, and obviously you *can* do well with a basic deck. But people point to stuff like Trump hitting Legend with a F2P deck, forgetting that most players, and certainly most new players, aren't going to be as good or well informed about how to play the game as Trump is.

I don't think Hearthstone is pay to win. You can't buy specific cards (outside adventures, which everyone gets at the same time and opportunity and cost). If you could - pay £3, get Ragnaros, or whatever, it would be pay to win, utterly unfair, and I would most likely stop playing. It's 'pay to avoid grind', which is fine, and obviously Blizzard has to make money; they didn't make Hearthstone out of the kindness of their hearts.

It's all well and good to say people need to learn the game and persist. And certainly new players make horrible decisions all the time, decisions that lose them the game. But even if only half your potential playerbase try a game, lose horribly, and then blame it on their lack of cards and never come back, that's not good. I mean, I don't think those players are *right* to think that, but as the amount of cards they don't have gets larger and larger and larger, it'll be harder to persuade them that you can go pretty far with high skill and basic cards.

Also, it's not even necessarily about winning. I'm a total Johnny - I like making decks with stupid gimmicks and seeing if they work. I don't care if I win a lot, because when I do and it all comes together, that's the fun part. But I still need a big card collection to make the interesting decks I want to.

It's not a physical card game. They don't seem likely to retire any cards, or start new seasons with whole new archetypes. I don't think we're far off the card deficit that new players start with being unsurmountable - beating it will take too much effort for what's supposed to be a fun, silly, throwaway game for most people who play it.

[Surrealistik]

I considered the F2P Trump deck, but I'm not so sure it can stand up to the current meta/players at the higher ranks, and I believe he effectively admitted that things have gotten significantly more competitive since he fielded it.

That said, you _can_ make a cheap and competitive Patron/Midrange Hunter/Secrets Paladin deck, even if it does require saving up to buy an expac wing or three which absolutely should stand up to the meta, and allow you to achieve a respectable rank. However, what you're saying is fundamentally correct; if things continue as they are they're certainly going to reach the point where a casual player will absolutely get chewed up and spit out by this game. In fact, we might be there presently, or by the next adventure release; quite a few friends of mine who have burnt out on Hearthstone and warned me about the game have said as much.

As for P2W, obviously there is an element of that in that you have an avenue of paying for power, while disenchanting/crafting allows you to translate money into precisely the cards you want. Currently it's not to the point where, as a new player, I feel things are hopeless unless I commit money to the game (I've been quite successful outside of top ten netdecks vs ****ty common/basic decks I'm stuck with for questing), but I'm not going to lie, it is discouraging to get my ass beat by blatantly superior cards with a particularly high F2P barrier like the adventure sets; something which comes up with reasonable frequency during aggro vs aggro games (Haunted Crawler/Nerubian Egg/Loatheb).

[Lethologica]

Mech Mage is probably the cheapest competitive deck for F2P since you can eschew adventure cards.

That said, F2P really pushes towards just playing Arena, where neither money nor experience break card parity. (RNG, on the other hand...but hey, you signed up for a card game, it's only natural.)

[The_Jackal]

I don't think Hearthstone is pay to win.

Pay-to-win oversimplifies the reality. The reality is that you're NOT going to start a new F2P account tomorrow and get into high legend anytime soon. Watch Trump's latest F2P series, it's very instructive. For one thing, at the low ranks, there's definitely enough weak players for him, an expert, to prosper even with a basic deck. But on the other hand, he's also been handed quite a few unavoidable curbstompings at the hands of high-resource players, once he got out of the sub-20 playpen.

Look, there's also the question of what winning looks like. For most players, that's NOT going to be 'End the Season at #1 legend'. So what is winning? Winning games? Getting the orange gem? Single digit ranks? Completing your collection? I'd argue that none of these issues are really relevant. We're all there for the journey, not the outcome. In the long run, as John Maynard Keynes put it, we're all dead.

[Mando Knight]

That said, F2P really pushes towards just playing Arena, where neither money nor experience break card parity. (RNG, on the other hand...but hey, you signed up for a card game, it's only natural.)
Unless you find a drafting tool like HearthArena or ArenaValue, experience does break card parity... even when there's an obvious "this card looks better" choice (like Angry Chicken vs Mad Bomber), understanding your curve and exactly how valuable certain kinds of cards are in Arena are things that are learned.

[Lethologica]

Unless you find a drafting tool like HearthArena or ArenaValue, experience does break card parity... even when there's an obvious "this card looks better" choice (like Angry Chicken vs Mad Bomber), understanding your curve and exactly how valuable certain kinds of cards are in Arena are things that are learned.
I mean to isolate experience per se from the effect of experience on skill. In constructed, more experience = more cards = inherently higher card quality. In arena, you get the same cards--if your experience makes you better at picking cards, that's only fair.

[MCerberus]

Did you play before BRM? I can see that being an issue but TGT hasn't introduced much outside of Secret Paladin. Totem Shaman doesn't work well since it loses to Paladin pretty hard, which is very popular now.


I played when Mind Control cost 8, and the Hyena+Hounds was simply unfair

[Anarion]

Pay-to-win oversimplifies the reality. The reality is that you're NOT going to start a new F2P account tomorrow and get into high legend anytime soon. Watch Trump's latest F2P series, it's very instructive. For one thing, at the low ranks, there's definitely enough weak players for him, an expert, to prosper even with a basic deck. But on the other hand, he's also been handed quite a few unavoidable curbstompings at the hands of high-resource players, once he got out of the sub-20 playpen.

Look, there's also the question of what winning looks like. For most players, that's NOT going to be 'End the Season at #1 legend'. So what is winning? Winning games? Getting the orange gem? Single digit ranks? Completing your collection? I'd argue that none of these issues are really relevant. We're all there for the journey, not the outcome. In the long run, as John Maynard Keynes put it, we're all dead.

Imo, "winning" in the case of a card game is having the option to play fun games. Arena somewhat provides that, especially if the drafter has a high enough level of competence to expect to get at least a few wins with every draft. Arena is pretty hard to sustain though, even if you're good. Most, if not all of us, have to play and complete the daily quests to keep up the ability to play more arena, which means a need to either suffer through games with decks that might have a 20-30% win rate (which really isn't much fun) or a desire to build a more competitive deck that offers choices and decision points that can give a good player a good win rate.

[GAAD]

YES! YESYESYESYESYES!

I did it! It took me half a year, but I finally have the achievement that allows one to play any deck at all!

I got 1600 dust from redundant disenchanting and got myself a Dr. Nerfplease!

[MCerberus]

Scraped together enough gold for an arena run.
Druid.
Got two Grim patrons and a couple inspire cards (one nether prince which won me two games), a beefy front line, and good draw with a low mana curve.

3-1 thus far. Hopefully get a couple of packs from it.

[Mando Knight]

...How is Grim Patron any good in an Arena Druid deck, except to deter an opponent Paladin from using their Hero Power?

[Lethologica]

...How is Grim Patron any good in an Arena Druid deck, except to deter an opponent Paladin from using their Hero Power?
...Wrath, I guess. Honestly, I dunno either.

[The Glyphstone]

...How is Grim Patron any good in an Arena Druid deck, except to deter an opponent Paladin from using their Hero Power?

When it's in a set with Alarm-O-Bot and Target Dummy?

[Zevox]

When it's in a set with Alarm-O-Bot and Target Dummy?
That would be a good reason for picking it, to be sure. But the way McCerberus said it seems to imply he thinks it's a good card to have in your draft in general, which it's really not.

[Lethologica]

Really like this brawl. Seems like exactly the kind of zany ridiculous rule change that I was hoping it would be.

Shaman is the obvious choice, with great synergy in Reincarnate and Ancestral Spirit. Also has some nice tools to enable Nerubian Egg, and Hex is basically required to deal with enemy deathrattle stuff.

Surprisingly good cards include Leper Gnome, who can do a lot of work very quickly. Put Ancestral Spirit on him, and that's 12 damage just from his deathrattle. Add in Reincarnate, and you have a 5 mana, 3-card combo that deals 16 damage from nowhere.

Another surprisingly good card is Bloodlust, simply because stuff like Haunted Creeper, Nerubian Egg, Harvest Golem, and Piloted Shredder tend to leave a lot of bodies around, and it's not uncommon to deal 20+ damage in one round, turning an even game into a victory then and there, which can be important when your opponent just got three 11/11 Thaddiuses onto the board last turn.
Built a mostly-aggro deck along these lines that's doing well for me so far (though I don't have Reincarnate). Still looking to make it better, though.

1x Earth Shock
2x Rockbiter Weapon
2x Clockwork Gnome
2x Leper Gnome
2x Ancestral Spirit
2x Flametongue Totem
2x Haunted Creeper
2x Knife Juggler
2x Loot Hoarder
2x Hex
2x Harvest Golem
1x Lil' Exorcist
1x Tuskarr Totemic (for want of a second Exorcist or other 3-drop--have considered replacing with Lightning Storm or Nerubian Egg)
2x Piloted Shredder
1x Bloodlust
1x Earth Elemental
1x Fire Elemental (for want of Piloted Sky Golem/s)
1x Sylvanas Windrunner
1x Dr. Boom

[Chen]

I'd add the second earth shock and probably add in owls too. Silence is way too good in this Brawl.

[MCerberus]

That would be a good reason for picking it, to be sure. But the way McCerberus said it seems to imply he thinks it's a good card to have in your draft in general, which it's really not.

Well it's been working out at least. I've been coming across many 2 attack minions and at the very least it was either patrons or take a swerve into pirate/murloc deck, which would have panned out horribly with the rest of the draft.

Plus I suppose I've been getting lucky on certain situations, like drawing good spells from the prince... I'll take the wins though.

[Cespenar]

I'd add the second earth shock and probably add in owls too. Silence is way too good in this Brawl.

I've went overboard and put two Owls, two Spellbreakers, and two Brewmasters. Still doesn't feel enough. :smalltongue:

[Hamste]

I've went overboard and put two Owls, two Spellbreakers, and two Brewmasters. Still doesn't feel enough. :smalltongue:

Get mass dispel in there as well, silence and the other two brew masters. Trading a 0 mana spell for four 1/1 is pretty good. A potential 12 dispel effects should hopefully be enough.

[Cespenar]

Get mass dispel in there as well, silence and the other two brew masters. Trading a 0 mana spell for four 1/1 is pretty good. A potential 12 dispel effects should hopefully be enough.

Ooh, nice. Mine was for Paladin, though, because of Mad Scientist lotsa-secret shenanigans. No Mass Dispel there.

[Anarion]

...How is Grim Patron any good in an Arena Druid deck, except to deter an opponent Paladin from using their Hero Power?

I like it as a pick in a mage arena, played only as a 3/2 and a 3/3 for 7 mana that requires an immediate answer. It's a great endgame card since it's nigh unstoppable if both players are topdecking.

[Gandariel]

Obligatory:

Today is the finals of the ATLC (big Hearthstone team tournament, 250k $ on the line)

Live now at http://www.twitch.tv/amazhs

[Mando Knight]

I like it as a pick in a mage arena, played only as a 3/2 and a 3/3 for 7 mana that requires an immediate answer. It's a great endgame card since it's nigh unstoppable if both players are topdecking.

I can see it for that reason in a Mage deck, but Druid doesn't have the luxury of spawning a new Patron every turn unless he's up against a Paladin that doesn't realize that his dudes will just feed the Patron engine.

I guess my question is, how strong is "3/3 don't ping me" for 5 on its own? Both of the major Arena tier lists I'm aware of put it pretty low.

[Chen]

On it's own, on curve, it's pretty terrible in arena. In a top-decking war it can be average to very good, depending on the opponent (it's great against Paladin). That said, I don't find arena gets to top decking wars all that often. There are clearly cards worse than it in arena, but I wouldn't pick it unless the other two cards were really bad.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I like it as a pick in a mage arena, played only as a 3/2 and a 3/3 for 7 mana that requires an immediate answer. It's a great endgame card since it's nigh unstoppable if both players are topdecking.
Seems pretty bad, though. Compare to Silver Hand Knight, a 5-mana 4/4 and 2/2. You pay 2 extra mana for basically the same thing. Grim Patron only gets good if you have combo juice to pump it up.

[Jormengand]

I just drafted three pyroblasts, two Flamestrikes, and two of the company that made this game. I am officially evil now.

[Anarion]

Seems pretty bad, though. Compare to Silver Hand Knight, a 5-mana 4/4 and 2/2. You pay 2 extra mana for basically the same thing. Grim Patron only gets good if you have combo juice to pump it up.

The difference is that silver hand is all you get. If the grim patron isn't answered immediately, you get another 3/3. Plus, your opponent is limited from playing weaker minions and there are some boards (like people keep mentioning paladin) where putting the grim patron down can't be removed whereas a 4/4 and a 2/2 would trade with a couple tokens.

I'm not saying it's amazing or anything, but in Mage patron is an above average card.

[Cespenar]

I just drafted three pyroblasts, two Flamestrikes, and two of the company that made this game. I am officially evil now.

Three pyroblasts? I can understand three or even more fireballs, but one is enough pyroblasts IMHO. Even two is stretching it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The difference is that silver hand is all you get. If the grim patron isn't answered immediately, you get another 3/3. Plus, your opponent is limited from playing weaker minions and there are some boards (like people keep mentioning paladin) where putting the grim patron down can't be removed whereas a 4/4 and a 2/2 would trade with a couple tokens.

I'm not saying it's amazing or anything, but in Mage patron is an above average card.
Yes, but Turn 7. By that point any decent Arena deck will generally have minions that can gobble up your 3/3 and 3/2, so you totally lose tempo from it. Paladin is definitely an advantaged board, it's true. Assuming that they don't have better minions on the board.

Since they get to trade first, they can choose the trades that don't trigger Patron.

[Anarion]

Yes, but Turn 7. By that point any decent Arena deck will generally have minions that can gobble up your 3/3 and 3/2, so you totally lose tempo from it. Paladin is definitely an advantaged board, it's true. Assuming that they don't have better minions on the board.

Since they get to trade first, they can choose the trades that don't trigger Patron.

Anecdotal evidence. I'm currently running an arena mage with a grim patron. I just played against a warrior deck. He had played an imp master. I had an annoy-o-tron and a midgame dark iron dwarf that comboed to kill a random 3/3 and then the dwarf traded with some removal while the annoy-o-tron got chipped down killing an imp. Turn 7 rolls around and I play patron and make another. He plays a sunwalker, I polymporph it, make 2 more patrons by killing the sheep and the imp master, and then overrun him.

Mage as a class plays a lot of direct damage removal and flamestrike. People don't draft decks where more than half the cards cost 5+ mana. And Grim Patron is one card. A good mage deck should be running an aggressive curve and taking board control. Patron plays into that as a finisher, going longer and being more threatening than a silver hand knight, which gives you exactly 6 power split into two bodies and no more.

[Lethologica]

Patron is non-terrible in Mage. SHK is significantly better, though. (That's not saying much, since SHK is pretty darn good, and you'll never have to choose between them anyway.)

[Gandariel]

I'm on the "Grim patron is bad" camp.

Reasoning: Grim patron in a Mage arena is basically Kodorider.

Kodorider isn't *that* bad, but it's definitely not good.

Also, fun arena moment.

I am paladin.
I play Coldarra Drake (gotten from Burgle, which i got from an enemy's Spellslinger)
Next turn i play Nexus champion Saraad, plus two hero powers.
NEXT TURN: FIVE HERO POWERS. WA POW!

[Surrealistik]

I hate Sludgebelchers for being such a PITA for aggro; a hatred that is only compounded by the fact that I ain't seeing a playset of the things for a long time unless I whip out my wallet.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, fun arena moment.

I am paladin.
I play Coldarra Drake (gotten from Burgle, which i got from an enemy's Spellslinger)
Next turn i play Nexus champion Saraad, plus two hero powers.
NEXT TURN: FIVE HERO POWERS. WA POW!
So...you...got...seven free spells and a boatload of tokens??

Holy smokes.

[Gandariel]

Well i did get two blade flurries, one Sinister strike and a Blessing of Might.

But yeah, it was glorious.

It was not even the most optimal play, but who cares, i couldn't lose from that point on.

[ShinyRocks]

Heh. Playing Hunter for Brawl. Dropped a turn 1 Webspinner. When I killed it, first Beast - Angry Chicken! Second Beast - also Angry Chicken!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well i did get two blade flurries, one Sinister strike and a Blessing of Might.
Eh, I mean, since you didn't pay a card for any of those...heck, Sinister Strike becomes a pretty good card if you don't factor in card advantage.

[TechnoWarforged]

Another day, another Arena run

Pal

1.(Tuskaar Jouster)/Mana Wrath/Wailing Souls

2.(Blessing of Kings)/Booty Bay Body Guard/Ogre Brute

3.(Lost Tallstrider)/Hand of Protection/Noble Sacrifice

4.(Force tax max)/undertaker/Goldshire Footman

5.(Puddlestomper)/Noble Sacrifice/Blackwing tech

6.(Gibling Stalker)/Faerie Dragon/Goldshire footman

7 (Haunted Creeper)/Scarlet Crusader/Dragonlin Mechanic

8(Saboteur)/ Dragon Consort/ Kezar Mystic

9(Northsea Kraken)/ Shattered Sun Cleric/ Grimscale Oracle

10(Enter the Coliseum/ Murloc Warleader/ Recruiter

This was an iffy pick. I'm not sure how strong Enter the Coliseum was... managed to draw in one time and got some nice value out of it... I think Recruiter is stronger. Heartharena says EoC is better so I go with it

11(Silvermoon Guardian)/ironforce riftleman/Ogre Magi

12 (Gurbashi Berserker)/ Blessing of Might/ Thrallar Farseerer

13 (Zombie Chow) / Noble Sacrifice / Pitfighter

I was still missing a lot of early game at this point.. and Heartharena has Chow slightly edging the Pitfighter

14(defender of argus)/ Scarlet Purfier / Argent Lance

I was thinking of lance for early control... I guess defender has both good mid game as well as late game value

15(Leper Gnome)/ War golem/ Stoneskin gargoyal

Heartharena suggested War Golem... but again I was thinking early game. I already got Kraken and Jouster...

16 (Mukula's champion)/ Flame Juggler/ Frost elemental

Another pick I override... I think Mukula's Champion will give me greater value.

17 (Pitfighter)/Blackwing tech/Blackwing Corruptor

18 (Mukula's Champion)/Tournament Attendee/Dalaran mage

Is this blizzard's way of saying I should have picked the Juggler 2 picks earlier?

19 (bloodfen raptor)/ southsea deckhand/ Ice rager

20. (Equality) / Abomination/ target dummy

21. (shield minibot) / refreshmen Vendor / Nightblade

22. (Argent Protector) / Frostwolf Grunt / Tournament Medic

23. (Haunted creeper)/ Venture co. / Tournament Medic

24. (Spellbreaker)/ Stoneskin gargoyle / Noble Sacrifice

25. (Argent protector) / Enter the Coliseum/ Windfury Harpy

26. (Pit fighter) / Bluegrill warrior/ capture jormunger

27. (Truesilver champ) / Clockwork Gnome/ Murloc Knight

This pick had me crying. I really wished I could pick both... but technically Murloc Knight is a 6 drop. So I'm really lacking the 4 drop.

28. (North Sea Kraken) / Frost Elemental / Spiteful Smith

29. (Seal of light) / Kvaldar Raider / captured joumunger

Heartharena is still saying I'm lacking 2 drops... but looking back I should have picked the raider

30. Injured Blademaster / Argent Lance / Stampeding Kodo

Lacking in 3 drops.. but wondering If I should have picked the Kodo



went 5-3... lost to a rogue who had wolf, backstab and then I can't catchup on board while his micro machines grew and grew...

another lost was due to misplayed...

finally lost to a druid who innervated out an acolyte of pain, then he Marked of Natured it.. drawing him more and more cards while clearing my board... then innervated a sunwalker out on T4 and then dropped a cultmaster down drawing him even more cards...

I considered it a slight improvement because I didn't missed any Kraken... but most of the pick was easy.. let me know what you would've picked instead.

[Surrealistik]

Bloodfen Raptor (meh pack)
Fallen Hero
Kobold Geomancer (**** pack)
Lance Carrier (meh pack)
Sorcerer's Apprentice 2x
Acolyte of Pain (meh pack)
Argent Horserider (meh pack)
Ironforge Rifleman (**** pack)
Mind Control Tech
Polymorph: Boar
Spider Tank
Dalaran Aspirant (meh pack)
Dragonkin Sorcerer (meh pack)
Dragonling Mechanic (meh pack)
Fireball
Polymorph
Senjin Shieldmasta
Spellbreaker
Violet Teacher
Water Elemental
Azure Drake
Flame Lance
Gurubashi Berserker (meh pack)
Kvaldir Raider
Silver Hand Knight
Blizzard
Drakonid Crusher
Sea Giant

Good night of Arena all told; 5 to 1 thus far. My one loss was an extremely close game with a Druid. Had board control and was about to finish him, MK style. Unfortunately the bastard won via surprise buttsecks by dropping a bunch of + attack out of nowhere with Dark Iron and Sergeants; barely killed me. I'd bet money he top decked the last + attack he needed.

Wins were pretty standard fare; win card advantage via firebolt + efficient trades, and grind the opponent's health to nothing. Had to get creative one time via Guru Zerker self-pings per firebolt and Rifleman, followed by original recipe Fireball to the face. Who knew that piece of **** card would make the difference?

[Lethologica]

Another day, another Arena run

Pal

1.(Tuskaar Jouster)/Mana Wrath/Wailing Souls

2.(Blessing of Kings)/Booty Bay Body Guard/Ogre Brute

3.(Lost Tallstrider)/Hand of Protection/Noble Sacrifice

4.(Force tax max)/undertaker/Goldshire Footman

5.(Puddlestomper)/Noble Sacrifice/Blackwing tech

6.(Gibling Stalker)/Faerie Dragon/Goldshire footman

7 (Haunted Creeper)/Scarlet Crusader/Dragonlin Mechanic

8(Saboteur)/ Dragon Consort/ Kezar Mystic

9(Northsea Kraken)/ Shattered Sun Cleric/ Grimscale Oracle

10(Enter the Coliseum/ Murloc Warleader/ Recruiter

This was an iffy pick. I'm not sure how strong Enter the Coliseum was... managed to draw in one time and got some nice value out of it... I think Recruiter is stronger. Heartharena says EoC is better so I go with it

11(Silvermoon Guardian)/ironforce riftleman/Ogre Magi

12 (Gurbashi Berserker)/ Blessing of Might/ Thrallar Farseerer

13 (Zombie Chow) / Noble Sacrifice / Pitfighter

I was still missing a lot of early game at this point.. and Heartharena has Chow slightly edging the Pitfighter

14(defender of argus)/ Scarlet Purfier / Argent Lance

I was thinking of lance for early control... I guess defender has both good mid game as well as late game value

15(Leper Gnome)/ War golem/ Stoneskin gargoyal

Heartharena suggested War Golem... but again I was thinking early game. I already got Kraken and Jouster...

16 (Mukula's champion)/ Flame Juggler/ Frost elemental

Another pick I override... I think Mukula's Champion will give me greater value.

17 (Pitfighter)/Blackwing tech/Blackwing Corruptor

18 (Mukula's Champion)/Tournament Attendee/Dalaran mage

Is this blizzard's way of saying I should have picked the Juggler 2 picks earlier?

19 (bloodfen raptor)/ southsea deckhand/ Ice rager

20. (Equality) / Abomination/ target dummy

21. (shield minibot) / refreshmen Vendor / Nightblade

22. (Argent Protector) / Frostwolf Grunt / Tournament Medic

23. (Haunted creeper)/ Venture co. / Tournament Medic

24. (Spellbreaker)/ Stoneskin gargoyle / Noble Sacrifice

25. (Argent protector) / Enter the Coliseum/ Windfury Harpy

26. (Pit fighter) / Bluegrill warrior/ capture jormunger

27. (Truesilver champ) / Clockwork Gnome/ Murloc Knight

This pick had me crying. I really wished I could pick both... but technically Murloc Knight is a 6 drop. So I'm really lacking the 4 drop.

28. (North Sea Kraken) / Frost Elemental / Spiteful Smith

29. (Seal of light) / Kvaldar Raider / captured joumunger

Heartharena is still saying I'm lacking 2 drops... but looking back I should have picked the raider

30. Injured Blademaster / Argent Lance / Stampeding Kodo

Lacking in 3 drops.. but wondering If I should have picked the Kodo



went 5-3... lost to a rogue who had wolf, backstab and then I can't catchup on board while his micro machines grew and grew...

another lost was due to misplayed...

finally lost to a druid who innervated out an acolyte of pain, then he Marked of Natured it.. drawing him more and more cards while clearing my board... then innervated a sunwalker out on T4 and then dropped a cultmaster down drawing him even more cards...

I considered it a slight improvement because I didn't missed any Kraken... but most of the pick was easy.. let me know what you would've picked instead.
6. I would almost always take Faerie Dragon over Gilblin Stalker. Similar cards, but Dragon is more aggressive and more likely to trade up.
10. Enter the Coliseum is more fun. It's kind of odd that it's a Paladin card since Paladin tends to generate a wide board, but heck with it.
13, 14. Chow vs. Pit Fighter and Argus vs. Lance are basically even. I think Chow-Argus is fine--Chow builds early board control and Argus benefits from board control.
15. One-drops are generally bad. Chow, Argent Squire, and Worgen Infiltrator are some exceptions, but it's rare that you'll draft a fast enough deck to make good use of Leper Gnome. War Golem is fine--you're not top-heavy by any means.
16. Mukla's is a luxury pick--a win condition, but extremely fragile. Better in Paladin (and Shaman) than other classes, though. I think I'd still have picked the Flame Juggler.
27. Doubly painful because you do have two Mukla's.
30. I prefer the other two picks to Blademaster. Not sure which is better for curve.

[GAAD]

So, apparently Druid of the X cannot be silenced after its battlecry to reduce its stats.
Interesting.

[Anarion]

So, apparently Druid of the X cannot be silenced after its battlecry to reduce its stats.
Interesting.

Correct, it's a shapeshift effect, same as polymorph or hex. It simply makes it into a different card. On a related noted, if you manage to get the 7/7 snake out and it's returned to your hand, it will forevermore be a 7/7 snake.

[Gandariel]

another day, another comment



Pal



6.(Gibling Stalker)/Faerie Dragon/Goldshire footman I'd take faerie, but no biggie

8(Saboteur)/ Dragon Consort/ Kezar Mystic Uh. I'd probably pick either of the others . Consort is a fair 5/5 with a sometimes great effect, Kezan can go 3-for-1 against three common classes

10(Enter the Coliseum/ Murloc Warleader/ Recruiter Enter the coliseum looks conditional and weak IMO. i'd pick Recruiter


15(Leper Gnome)/ War golem/ Stoneskin gargoyal
I'd take War Golem. Leper gnome is only useful if your deck is ***very*** aggressive. This is clearly not.

23. (Haunted creeper)/ Venture co. / Tournament Medic
curve pick. venture co was better if you needed lategame

29. (Seal of light) / Kvaldar Raider / captured joumunger

Heartharena is still saying I'm lacking 2 drops... but looking back I should have picked the raider
yup

30. Injured Blademaster / Argent Lance / Stampeding Kodo
Lacking in 3 drops.. but wondering If I should have picked the Kodo
yeah, i'd take kodo

[Cespenar]

I hate Sludgebelchers for being such a PITA for aggro; a hatred that is only compounded by the fact that I ain't seeing a playset of the things for a long time unless I whip out my wallet.

Ironbeak Owl?

[Surrealistik]

Ironbeak Owl?

It works and I run em, but if I don't draw into them, the loss of momentum/minions is often devastating.

[Xiander]

The discussion of how hard it is to be new at hearthstone is one I bump into everytime I talk about the game with my freinds. Now I know that building an aggro deck is pretty much the easiest way to be slightly competitive. (I am thinking mechmage, zoolock, possibly paladin rush). I also know that control decks are typically much more expensive, as they often rely on strong legendaries and epics to work.

Now this got me thinking. What is the cheapest functional control deck you can come up with?
I would like to see some suggestions, as I am not sure what kind of late game winconditions are viable if you do not have access to the typical legends (Ysera, ragnaros, dr. nevermind, gromash and the like).

[Lethologica]

On a budget? Patron Warrior. While it'd be nice to have Thaurissian, you don't technically need any legendaries or epics to do decently. (Example with Thaurissian. (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/low-budget-warrior-grim-patron-otk-one-turn-kill-brm-deck))

[Hamste]

On a budget? Patron Warrior. While it'd be nice to have Thaurissian, you don't technically need any legendaries or epics to do decently. (Example with Thaurissian. (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/low-budget-warrior-grim-patron-otk-one-turn-kill-brm-deck))

If you have Patrons you most likely have Thaurissian as they are in the same wing.

[Murmaider]

On a budget? Patron Warrior. While it'd be nice to have Thaurissian, you don't technically need any legendaries or epics to do decently. (Example with Thaurissian. (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/low-budget-warrior-grim-patron-otk-one-turn-kill-brm-deck))

While it's cheap on dust, a Patron Deck will set you back at least 3500 gold thanks to Death's Bite being mandatory.

I think you could easily make an oil deck for a bit over 2000 dust, with two preparations being the only cards above rare.

[GAAD]

So a deck with only commons? The most basic control deck is probably most viable with Priest, so off the top of my head...

Budget Grinder Priest

Basic Priest Cards:

Cleric 2
Mind Vision 2
Shield 2
Pain
Death
Nova 2
Mind Control 2

Common Priest Cards:

Thought steal 2
Velen's Chosen 2
Holy Champion 2
Temple Enforcer 2

Common Neutral Cards:

Bone guard Lieutenant 2
Stonesplinter Trogg 2
Shredder 2
Pit Fighter 2
Kraken 2

Total dust cost: 720

Sure, it's not THAT good, but it's pretty good for a new player.

Edit: And it just beat a netdecked Control Warrior, so it IS viable.

[Surrealistik]

Man, another one of those days when I'm facing top ten NDs for 8+ consecutive 'casual' games and struggling with 30% win rates; I now know why my friends burnt out on this game (well I knew regardless, but this sort of thing really drives it home).

[Lethologica]

If you have Patrons you most likely have Thaurissian as they are in the same wing.
Oh, right, I keep forgetting how many low-rarity cards aren't actually budget because of wings. :smallsigh:

Uh, Ramp Druid? The core principle of 'accelerate, play fat dudes' works pretty well even if the fat dudes aren't legendary.

[The_Jackal]

Man, another one of those days when I'm facing top ten NDs for 8+ consecutive 'casual' games and struggling with 30% win rates; I now know why my friends burnt out on this game (well I knew regardless, but this sort of thing really drives it home).

Don't queue in the casual queue, you're more likely to run into whales than if you play ranked.

[Gandariel]

cheap control decks:


- Midrange Shaman.
Yup, i know the deck isn't considered amazing, but a midrange shaman can be done with nothing above Rare.

Your wincons are the one copy of Windfury and Bloodlust. Against a fast deck, you just have to survive their attacks. Against faster decks, try to craft a situation where you can get one of your win-cards to work.

You might try:
- ThunderBluff Valiant
- 1x Doomhammer if you get it
- Azure Drakes
- Feral Spirits

http://i.imgur.com/S4PAmOR.png


- Control Priest
Great because if you're slow enough you can just MC your opponent's mega legendaries, and you have a lot of anti-aggro options with Auchenai, Wild Pyro and Holy Nova

- Oil rogue requires two epics (Preparation), but is otherwise basically only commons. (popular lists run Loatheb and Thalnos, but they're not completely necessary)

You could also try with Mage and Druid, but i can't think of a clear list

[Surrealistik]

Don't queue in the casual queue, you're more likely to run into whales than if you play ranked.

I just straight up forfeit now when I identify a deck as top 10 and I'm not in an advantageous position; ain't nobody got time for that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bFEoMO0pc7k#t=10). I save my precious time and they don't get the satisfaction of curbstomping an underequipped deck by the sheer force of their superior cards; win/win.

[Joran]

Don't queue in the casual queue, you're more likely to run into whales than if you play ranked.

I'm helping my wife out at Rank 15. It feels about 3-2 net deck vs. non-meta deck, but I don't have hard data to back that up.

I've just started keeping track of my ranked play, so I can quantify if I truly am running into a ton of secret paladins (I am =P)

[Zevox]

I've just started keeping track of my ranked play, so I can quantify if I truly am running into a ton of secret paladins (I am =P)
Weird. I still don't see many, and still have a hard time figuring out how those decks are supposed to be good. I have yet to lose to the more midrange version, and the aggro version, while I hate it just as much as any other full-blown aggro deck, doesn't actually strike me as better than older aggro Paladin decks. It still feels like the matchup revolves around our starting hands and on whether he gets Divine Favor or not. By the time Mysterious Challenger can come down, the momentum of the match is already solidly one way or the other most of the time, and he only solidifies it if it's in my opponent's favor or provides a slightly more annoying turn if it's in mine.

[Cespenar]

I just straight up forfeit now when I identify a deck as top 10 and I'm not in an advantageous position; ain't nobody got time for that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bFEoMO0pc7k#t=10). I save my precious time and they don't get the satisfaction of curbstomping an underequipped deck by the sheer force of their superior cards; win/win.

That could end up in way more concedes than it should legitimately be. Many people run decks that are quite similar to some of the netdecks, except where they can't, and fill in the blanks with "similar" cards or, on occasion, junk.

[Surrealistik]

That could end up in way more concedes than it should legitimately be. Many people run decks that are quite similar to some of the netdecks, except where they can't, and fill in the blanks with "similar" cards or, on occasion, junk.

Well, I woke up to go get me a cold pop
Then I thought somebody was BBQing
I said, "Oh, lord Jesus it's a fire!"
Then I ran out, I didn't grab no shoes or nothing Jesus
I ran for my life

[DaedalusMkV]

I built a Pirate Rogue deck for giggles. It works, surprisingly enough. Rank 9 now, and still winning 2/3 of my games. I managed an unbroken winstreak from Rank 18 to Rank 11, then started to run into people who didn't just get run over by the massive early-game value. Or maybe they're just better players, and can adapt when they run into something unexpected. Either way.

Of course, the whole thing would fall apart if people ran any kind of anti-weapon tech, but as it stands right now I can usually smash down midrange decks by turn 7 and easily beat most other aggro thanks to my absurd tempo. I lose every game against Control Warrior and most games against Control Priest, but other matchups seem to be pretty favorable or at least around even. Not regretting the no dust at all I invested in it, and I'm even thinking of crafting Captain Greenskin because of how many times I've wished for a simple +1 durability on my 7 attack weapon...

It still needs some tweaking, and I don't think it's top-tier, but it is very fun and competitive enough to get into the real rankings. Plus, I built the whole thing myself and nobody else seems to be using it, and somehow that always makes it feel a bit more like an accomplishment when you win.

[Chen]

Weird. I still don't see many, and still have a hard time figuring out how those decks are supposed to be good. I have yet to lose to the more midrange version, and the aggro version, while I hate it just as much as any other full-blown aggro deck, doesn't actually strike me as better than older aggro Paladin decks. It still feels like the matchup revolves around our starting hands and on whether he gets Divine Favor or not. By the time Mysterious Challenger can come down, the momentum of the match is already solidly one way or the other most of the time, and he only solidifies it if it's in my opponent's favor or provides a slightly more annoying turn if it's in mine.

Agro secret paladin does seem to work a bit better against agro than pure agro paladin (where's its basically a coin toss). I've been trying a list similar to StrifeCro's with secret keeper in it, and it's not terrible. I'm not sure the mid-range secret paladin (which is what tempostorm has on their rankings) is nearly as strong. I like the agro secret paladin since mysterious challenger is really just the piece that lets you push the extra damage as the opponent struggles to deal with all the secrets that come out. For a midrange paladin I find you still don't end the game that decisively after the mysterious stranger so there's still room for the game to shift back away from your favor.

I did have a hilarious game against mech mage where I got the dream, secret keeper, noble sac, avenge opening hand. First draw, redemption. Next draw competitive spirit. He didn't draw a fireball and he just got steamrolled by a giant secret keeper. Was really pure luck though. Any removal on his part and I was toast.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That could end up in way more concedes than it should legitimately be. Many people run decks that are quite similar to some of the netdecks, except where they can't, and fill in the blanks with "similar" cards or, on occasion, junk.
Also, plenty of netdeckers don't have the experience necessary to play the deck well. If you're in the higher ranks, yeah, probably. But if you're in the lower ranks (especially late in the month) a netdeck is much more likely to be somebody who's built the deck but doesn't really grok how the strategy behind it works, or how to play against other decks effectively.

[Joran]

Weird. I still don't see many, and still have a hard time figuring out how those decks are supposed to be good. I have yet to lose to the more midrange version, and the aggro version, while I hate it just as much as any other full-blown aggro deck, doesn't actually strike me as better than older aggro Paladin decks. It still feels like the matchup revolves around our starting hands and on whether he gets Divine Favor or not. By the time Mysterious Challenger can come down, the momentum of the match is already solidly one way or the other most of the time, and he only solidifies it if it's in my opponent's favor or provides a slightly more annoying turn if it's in mine.

What deck are you using?

With my most played deck, Zoolock, it's made the Aggro version a worse matchup. Zoo relies a lot on good trades and establishing board control and the secrets (primarily Noble Sacrifice and Avenge) make that more difficult. In addition, since Zoolock has no board wipes or easy ways of dealing with a Muster for Battle, it's really annoying to play against.

I miss the days of Totem Shaman. On the plus side, Paladin is neck and neck with Druid as my most frequent opponent and Zoolock is heavily favored against Midrange Druid.

[otakuryoga]

Well, I woke up to go get me a cold pop
Then I thought somebody was BBQing
I said, "Oh, lord Jesus it's a fire!"
Then I ran out, I didn't grab no shoes or nothing Jesus
I ran for my life


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtMOp0bCpkM

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, for Patron Warrior in particular, playing the deck well takes a good deal of skill. At low ranks, you'll even see people just running out combo cards like Warsong Commander or Frothing Commander on turn 3, which is just an open invitation for you to ruin their day.

[Zevox]

What deck are you using?
Depends on my quest for the day, but always something controly. Control Warrior, Ramp Druid, and Handlock have been my most common lately. Sometimes Midrange Paladin. Don't recall if I ran across one when I was trying out Dragon Priest or not, and I'm pretty sure I didn't run into any last time I was playing Freeze Mage.

[Joran]

Yeah, for Patron Warrior in particular, playing the deck well takes a good deal of skill. At low ranks, you'll even see people just running out combo cards like Warsong Commander or Frothing Commander on turn 3, which is just an open invitation for you to ruin their day.

During the ATLC finals, we saw pro players miss lethal with the deck; I've also thrown away games where I failed to wait the extra turn to guarantee a great turn rather than play a mediocre turn.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Not even the Patron Combo, either. Most other decks require a strong sense of when to use your resources, when and how to trade, and what threats you need to play around lest you overextend and get boardwiped, or fail to bait out silences/hard removal before playing your big guns.

[Surrealistik]

Need to watch someone wreck for a free pack per my daily quest; anyone online and willing to demo?

[Gray Mage]

Need to watch someone wreck for a free pack per my daily quest; anyone online and willing to demo?

I'm on. Feel free to come by. :smallsmile:

[Surrealistik]

Swag; request sent.

[ShinyRocks]

I got Skycap'n Kragg from the pack I earned playing my Pirate Rogue deck, which seems fitting.

Also, today's Portal brawl taught me that Kvaldir Raider, an acceptable 5-drop, is an *insane* 2-drop.

[Zevox]

:smallsigh: Of course I get the "5 brawl wins for 60 gold" quest during a week where the brawl is one of the worst "just throw in more RNG" ones. Just my luck...