Spellvial Master Thrower

[BRKNdevil]

So assume a party, One person decides to become a Master Thrower, and his friend supports his decision by becoming a Alchemist Savant to give him fun things to toss.

How would you rule 2 with one blow for the different things that Alchemist Savant makes?
Do you think Palm throw would work with the different vials and Flasks?

Should the Alchemist go in as a wizard or a Artificer?

Now this is under the idea that its 2 different people and they obviously are not going super optimized and more for an idea. The alchemist will probably not be tossing the vials and will support themselves in some other fashion in battle.

[Curmudgeon]

Palm Throw is expressly for little weapons. A 1-pint alchemical weapon flask isn't little. An empty flask weighs 1½ lbs., and the pint of alchemical weapon inside adds another pound.

Two with One Blow is going to be a DM's call. I'd take it as written, meaning careful throwing and a sufficiently high attack total would deal primary damage to 2 squares instead of 1, and splash damage to 10 squares instead of 8.

Note, though, that Thrown Weapon Trick only works for weapons for which the Master Thrower has taken Weapon Focus. Weapon Focus (Acid), Weapon Focus (Alchemist's Fire), Weapon Focus (Holy Water), ... is going to add a lot of feats to the build.

[Terazul]

Palm Throw is expressly for little weapons. A 1-pint alchemical weapon flask isn't little. An empty flask weighs 1½ lbs., and the pint of alchemical weapon inside adds another pound.


Thrown Weapon Trick is in general going to be issue with this setup, but I'd argue that spellvials are little enough:



Vial
A vial holds 1 ounce of liquid. The stoppered container usually is no more than 1 inch wide and 3 inches high.
Though there's also this:


A typical potion or oil consists of 1 ounce of liquid held in a ceramic or glass vial fitted with a tight stopper. The stoppered container is usually no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high. The vial has AC 13, 1 hit point, hardness 1, and a break DC of 12. Vials hold 1 ounce of liquid.

That's not very large of all. Also, that weight is completely untrue for alchemical weapons. An empty flask is in fact 1.5 lbs, but a flask of Alchemists Fire, Holy Water, and Acid flasks are all only 1lb each, despite being a pint of liquid. They mysteriously get lighter. That being said, Alchemist Savant compares Spellvials to potions, which by default are also in vials. They're at most 1x3", only 1oz compared to a pint, and (assuming we use the same weight as other alchemical weapons despite a smaller container) are the same weight or lighter than daggers, which are explicitly called out as being usable with Palm Throw.

[BRKNdevil]

So then would a Two with one blow work for spell vials?

Also, totally missed the only works with weapon focus items

[Curmudgeon]

Potion vials are for potions you consume willingly, not alchemical weapons.

Also, that weight is completely untrue for alchemical weapons. An empty flask is in fact 1.5 lbs, but a flask of Alchemists Fire, Holy Water, and Acid flasks are all only 1lb each, despite being a pint of liquid.
You've misread the "Special Substances and Items" table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#specialSubstancesAndItems). It doesn't specify the weight for a "flask of acid", but rather "Acid (flask)": i.e., enough acid to fill a flask. The flask is not included.

[ekarney]

I recommend an Aptitude Gnome Calculus with a crossbow as the weapon its emulating and grabbing rapid reload.

Edit: Go in as artificer, if you're going for crafting that's the class for the job.

[Terazul]

Potion vials are for potions you consume willingly, not alchemical weapons.
True, but Spellvials are a special case, not alchemical weapons:



Brew Spellvial (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, you can brew spellvials, potionlike concoctions that can be used
as thrown weapons. You create the spellvial just as you would any other potion.
Emphasis mine. Vials man. Note that spellvials also don't have a splash radius (presumably because it would be hilarious and also) because they would be smaller. They're explicitly different from alchemical substance weapons which are used in another ability in the class.



You've misread the "Special Substances and Items" table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#specialSubstancesAndItems). It doesn't specify the weight for a "flask of acid", but rather "Acid (flask)": i.e., enough acid to fill a flask. The flask is not included.

This one I'll concede.

[BRKNdevil]

I recommend an Aptitude Gnome Calculus with a crossbow as the weapon its emulating and grabbing rapid reload.

Edit: Go in as artificer, if you're going for crafting that's the class for the job.

Cool idea, never thought of combining it like that. Wonder if that works on Heavy Crossbows and firearms.


It doesn't specify the weight for a "flask of acid", but rather "Acid (flask)": i.e., enough acid to fill a flask. The flask is not included.

Which means i've been adding that weight to my character wrong for years

[Talionis]

I've always wanted to play Combat Trapsmith with an Alchemist Savant, because it should be able to mix poisons and spells into the traps.

[ekarney]

Cool idea, never thought of combining it like that. Wonder if that works on Heavy Crossbows and firearms.


I think so, but you'd have to get Hand Crossbow Focus instead of rapid reload, as HCF specifies free action, not just a step down. theoretically, you could apply that tactic to great crossbows.


I actually made a build similar to this a while ago.
Artificer 5/Alchemist Savant 5/Master Alchemist 10

Provided you're allowed 3.0 content.

Artificer 5 nets you 3rd level infusions, and more importantly you get the Item Creation class feature before level 5.
You get Alchemist Savant for well, spellvials and improved crafting time.

iirc there was a clause somewhere in an Eberron book about Infusions counting as spells for the purpose of prereqs, which means you're allowed into Master Alchemist, which means you can craft up to 9th level potions.

you should be able to get Spellvials counted as potions for the purposes of Master aclhemist's Brew Potion ability too.

[BRKNdevil]

My next wonder would be what happens when you make it a +1 Aptitude Splitting Gnome Calculus

Another wonder is whether or not its more economically sound to go with +1 Spellstoring arrows, but i don't completely understand the rules when it comes to ammunition

[Curmudgeon]

My next wonder would be what happens when you make it a +1 Aptitude Splitting Gnome Calculus
Nothing except you've waste the gold.

Activation: The splitting ability of a ranged weapon (must be a bow, crossbow, arrow, or bolt) only functions if its wielder has the Precise Shot feat.
Aptitude lets you use feats intended for a different weapon. It doesn't affect anything related to weapon special abilities.

[BRKNdevil]

and the 2nd question?

[Curmudgeon]

Spell Storing doesn't work with ammunition, for two reasons:


Spell Storing
A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. If anyone's wielding (holding, actively directing) an arrow after it's left your bow and is no longer under your control, it's the target; it's definitely not you.
That doesn't matter anyway, because the arrow and the magic in it is destroyed on impact.
Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.