How to stand out in a big party

[djreynolds]

We are rolling up new characters for an underdark campaign. And we have too many players but oh well. We have three tanks, two paladins, and a samurai (barbarian)remix, a druid with awesome rolls, a cleric of light, my kid the ranger, and me.

15,14,14,12,10,6. Not as good as SPBI. But that 14 is better than a 13. And dwarf explains away the charisma. Now I was thinking of going Abjurer wizards mountain dwarf. We are staring at 5th level and I've been given a "brooch of shielding". Now I was thinking a rugged arcane trickster as well who focuses more on intelligence and investigation than stealth.

For the Abjurer wizard I was figuring 14,10,14,15,12,6 which would be with mountain dwarf 16,10,16,15,12,6 And at 5th I would have 16, 10,16, 17, 12 ,6. I'd wear the best medium are affordable, I'm not sure if mountain dwarf's medium armor proficiency includes shields, but I get a hip point bonus for casting shield, and I'd throw hand axes and daggers and be in the middle of the pack, casting defensive buffs. NO FEATS, again. Oh well. But with 3 tanks and a ranger and two casters, I can just bravely run away from melee combat. And if that's the case, do I even need armor.

But with the stat line above 15,14,14,12,10,6. No feats, 3 tanks, a dexterous ranger, and two casters, I feel left out.

Now what about an armored arcane trickster, is that a viable build. I feel with a party like this, I need to carve out my own niche. Now we are have no feats. I'm unsure about multiclassing. I thought about deep gnome arcane trickster, for utility magic and taking advantage of the tanks opening up sneak attacks. But without feats, I lose out on medium armor master and the idea of armored rogue

Really any ideas are viable. But I want to feel like I'm needed in a group this "big". But I thought a defensive caster or rogue with some spells. Bard is okay, but where to put that 6. A 6 strength is hard to hide, but a 6 charisma is not so bad.

[Dralnu]

Your group lacks an INT primary character, so yes, a wizard can be good. You have access to rituals and utility that the group doesn't have.

Bard is good too. Song of Rest has no character limit, great for recouping. Lots of utility that they don't have access to again. You're a skill monkey too which the party lacks

Arcane Trickster can be fine. You're a skill monkey first, which again is something the party lacks. The spells are limited and supplement your stuff.

Shadow Monk is also good. Or Open Hand. Both are frontloaded and overall excellent. Both get Stunning Strike, which is an enormous boon to the entire group, giving them free advantage to annihilate the stunned target. It's really good. Open Hand offers even more crowd control abilities while Shadow gives you very useful spells, Pass Without Trace makes your ENTIRE group very sneaky plus you're a sneaky teleporting ninja and an excellent scout. No feats means that Monk isn't blown out of the water in DPS after level 8ish.

I'd pick Shadow Monk, then Wizard (any). But really there's tons of solid choices.

[djreynolds]

Your group lacks an INT primary character, so yes, a wizard can be good. You have access to rituals and utility that the group doesn't have.

Bard is good too. Song of Rest has no character limit, great for recouping. Lots of utility that they don't have access to again. You're a skill monkey too which the party lacks

Arcane Trickster can be fine. You're a skill monkey first, which again is something the party lacks. The spells are limited and supplement your stuff.

Shadow Monk is also good. Or Open Hand. Both are frontloaded and overall excellent. Both get Stunning Strike, which is an enormous boon to the entire group, giving them free advantage to annihilate the stunned target. It's really good. Open Hand offers even more crowd control abilities while Shadow gives you very useful spells, Pass Without Trace makes your ENTIRE group very sneaky plus you're a sneaky teleporting ninja and an excellent scout. No feats means that Monk isn't blown out of the water in DPS after level 8ish.

I'd pick Shadow Monk, then Wizard (any). But really there's tons of solid choices.

Well you just gave me four more choices. Awesome. Thanks. We do lack intelligence and a skill monkey. And mobility of the monk is always sweet. I'll factor all that in. Thanks

[Steampunkette]

GOO Warlock, don't dump charisma.

Grab the pact of the tome so you can get your rituals on, and use your connection to an ancient evil to make you an infiltrator. You've got a solid front line to keep you safe, so focus on renewable blasting ability, keep hex up through short rests, and tear the enemy apart from afar. Grab Bluff as a skill, alter self as an invocation, and BAM! You're a mind flayer leading a thralled party of adventurers to the ceremorphisis chamber, or a Drow Scout bringing mercenaries to your Mistress for evaluation before she hires them.

Use your perfect ability to make yourself understood and communicate silently with the party into a fantastically stealthy trick that allows you to set up ambushes, direct the party, or pass wild and weird notes to different party members as your character accidentally makes mental contact, now and then.

And when disguised and bluffing your enemies into a false sense of security, hit them with the ambush, perfectly planned and executed without a word spoken.

That will make you pretty darn unique in a big and varied party.

Prioritize Charisma and Intelligence. Dump Str.

[djreynolds]

Awesome build, Number 5. Now where were you guys when I was rolling this. I waited till everyone else made there characters too. I mean really what party needs two paladins. Warlock sounds awesome, lots of utility and POP

[PoeticDwarf]

If there isn't a healing caster. Go for a bard healer or druid/cleric healer with spells like prayer of healing and mass cure wounds/healing word.

[ImSAMazing]

Going to play the campaign about Orcus? Cool.

[BladeWing81]

We are rolling up new characters for an underdark campaign. And we have too many players but oh well. We have three tanks, two paladins, and a samurai (barbarian)remix, a druid with awesome rolls, a cleric of light, my kid the ranger, and me.

15,14,14,12,10,6. Not as good as SPBI. But that 14 is better than a 13. And dwarf explains away the charisma. Now I was thinking of going Abjurer wizards mountain dwarf. We are staring at 5th level and I've been given a "brooch of shielding". Now I was thinking a rugged arcane trickster as well who focuses more on intelligence and investigation than stealth.

For the Abjurer wizard I was figuring 14,10,14,15,12,6 which would be with mountain dwarf 16,10,16,15,12,6 And at 5th I would have 16, 10,16, 17, 12 ,6. I'd wear the best medium are affordable, I'm not sure if mountain dwarf's medium armor proficiency includes shields, but I get a hip point bonus for casting shield, and I'd throw hand axes and daggers and be in the middle of the pack, casting defensive buffs. NO FEATS, again. Oh well. But with 3 tanks and a ranger and two casters, I can just bravely run away from melee combat. And if that's the case, do I even need armor.

But with the stat line above 15,14,14,12,10,6. No feats, 3 tanks, a dexterous ranger, and two casters, I feel left out.

Now what about an armored arcane trickster, is that a viable build. I feel with a party like this, I need to carve out my own niche. Now we are have no feats. I'm unsure about multiclassing. I thought about deep gnome arcane trickster, for utility magic and taking advantage of the tanks opening up sneak attacks. But without feats, I lose out on medium armor master and the idea of armored rogue

Really any ideas are viable. But I want to feel like I'm needed in a group this "big". But I thought a defensive caster or rogue with some spells. Bard is okay, but where to put that 6. A 6 strength is hard to hide, but a 6 charisma is not so bad.

there's many ways to standout in any party by just the way you play your character. I but if you want a character that could shine I would recomend 2 good ones that I personally used recently:

Human variant life cleric:
You can set 15 on wis and the two 14 on STR and Cons and as a feat select the Magic initiate for Druid and get goodberry which will give you 4hp per berry, that's 40hp on lvl 1 not to mention the very cool druid cantrips you can get (I got shillelagh and produce flame) you will centanly standout as a great healer, Tank and spell caster.

Wood Elf Monk of the open hand/shadows:

with +2 Dex and +1 WIS you can turn a 15 and a 14 into two 16 and get +6 hit/+3 damage and 16 AC from the start also Darkvision, Perseption Skill, proeficiency with Long bow (1d8), 35 feet speed, and once you get to lvl 3 you'll get 45 speed and your open hand techniques will wreak havock on your enemies.

Both options will make you invaluable for your team no matter the number.

[Louro]

The warlock idea is great. Pick any arcane caster and you will stand out whichever way you go. There is plenty of meat in the party to keep you alive.

[DivisibleByZero]

You mentioned gnome. You mentioned arcane trickster. You mentioned wizard. You mentioned not having a skill monkey. You mentioned not having an Int caster.
What you didn't mention was that you could have all of this at once.
With that party having those missing elements, I'd find oout about multiclassing. If it were allowed, make a forest gnome or deep gnome arcane trickster / (any specialty) wizard.
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 6 Cha

[Steampunkette]

The Warlock could be the Skill Monkey through Background, Invocations, and Feats. >.>

A Far-Realm addled Creepy Warlock walks down the hall and points to trip wires without looking, disarming or marking them so the party can avoid the trap.

[KorvinStarmast]

How to stand out in a big party?

This can be read as a question like "how do I make sure that the dragon/bad-guys/archers target me first? :smallcool:

[djreynolds]

I apologize if my original post was clouded. We have a cleric of light and a druid, moon, who has awesome stats. Unfortunately this is the 3rd game without feats, and I'm sad about that.

I'm leaning with 4 builds. And a possible fifth.

Arcane trickster sounds great, gnome. Skill monkey who can take advantage of the barbarian and tanks close proximity.
Abjurer wizard mountain dwarf with a low dexterity. You keep what you roll, bad line....
I like the monk idea and that could prove to be useful, especially if we can multiclass, into rogue.
I love the warlock and I have yet to play one, so that adds a bonus.
And I like the bard, I've never played with a low strength and I was thinking of saying its from an injury at the hands of the drow. We have 4 in the party.

If I can multiclass, I would redo my character ideas a little. I'd grab life cleric for a dip and go wizard. I think there will be need for an arcane skill specialist.
Arcane trickster is another guy I have never played and I may lean that way.

Not to change the post, but is a melee, armored or leather armored, arcane trickster out there. I think the need for stealth to go along with my kid's ranger could be a cool build. Deep gnome, unfortunately no feats, no deep gnome magic, rogue would be nice.

Thanks for the info and expert advice. The game starts 9/9 so I have time. stats are 15,14,14,12,10,6 we are playing again and again without feats and that is just sad. We have two drow paladins, a retooled barbarian-samurai, a cleric of light, a moon druid who should have chosen some other character because she has awesome stats, and my kid archer ranger.

[ChelseaNH]

Terminology differs, but I was taught that the optimum party has: tank (can take damage), mobile melee fighter, artillery, logistics officer, healer.

Your party has multiple tanks, the archer is artillery, four characters have access to healing. With that many melee fighters, hopefully someone has mobility. The biggest hole seems to be the logistics officer (i.e. thief).

[KorvinStarmast]

Terminology differs, but I was taught that the optimum party has: tank (can take damage), mobile melee fighter, artillery, logistics officer, healer.

Your party has multiple tanks, the archer is artillery, four characters have access to healing. With that many melee fighters, hopefully someone has mobility. The biggest hole seems to be the logistics officer (i.e. thief).
My friends who were logistics officers, in the Army, and supply officers in the Navy, would probably not agree with you about the "thief" appellation.

But I LOL'd. :smallbiggrin:

[Steampunkette]

Christine is right. Someone who can get you information, deal with obstacles, and clear out problems is deeply important.

All the more reason to make the Warlock and give him the guild thief background. He was a purveyor of stolen knowledge and relics, but opened the wrong book under the right stars to make a connection with something greater than himself.

Bam. You can now trapfind and eldritch blast.

[djreynolds]

My friends who were logistics officers, in the Army, and supply officers in the Navy, would probably not agree with you about the "thief" appellation.

But I LOL'd. :smallbiggrin:

There are no thieves in the military, they're just getting the s**t back.

[djreynolds]

Christine is right. Someone who can get you information, deal with obstacles, and clear out problems is deeply important.

All the more reason to make the Warlock and give him the guild thief background. He was a purveyor of stolen knowledge and relics, but opened the wrong book under the right stars to make a connection with something greater than himself.

Bam. You can now trapfind and eldritch blast.

I'm leaning warlock, I can hide that 6 in strength and the ranger and paladins can climb cliffs, or I can just levitate. The 9th is around the corner, what about arcane trickster, MR Person's guide suggests, arcane tricksters are not good for spells and skills. Any thoughts?

[Steampunkette]

I've never tried or seen an arcane trickster in play, so I can't help, there.