Down the slope of madness... Stone to Flesh.

[ekarney]

Alright so in the stone to flesh spell description it states that if cast on a statue it turns into a corpse.

Is it possible to resurrect/otherwise bring to life said corpse?

[Mystral]

Alright so in the stone to flesh spell description it states that if cast on a statue it turns into a corpse.

Is it possible to resurrect/otherwise bring to life said corpse?

It doesn't turn it into a corpse, it turns it into a mass of flesh in the shape of the statue.


This spell restores a petrified creature to its normal state, restoring life and goods. The creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to survive the process. Any petrified creature, regardless of size, can be restored. The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. For example, this spell would turn an animated stone statue into an animated flesh statue, but an ordinary statue would become a mass of inert flesh in the shape of the statue. You can affect an object that fits within a cylinder from 1 foot to 3 feet in diameter and up to 10 feet long or a cylinder of up to those dimensions in a larger mass of stone.

[ekarney]

It says this on the SRD though.


For example, this spell would turn a stone golem into a flesh golem, but an ordinary statue would become a corpse.

[Curmudgeon]

The SRD sometimes loses clarity where it's been abbreviated and stripped of examples. Whenever there's an ambiguous rule in the SRD, it's always best to go back to the primary source (in this case, Player's Handbook).

Stone to Flesh has no ability to create hit dice where they never existed before. Spells like Raise Dead can restore life to a deceased creature, not create life from a fleshy statue.

[Cerefel]

It seems Meta is talking about Stone to Flesh in 3.5 not PF

[ekarney]

The SRD sometimes loses clarity where it's been abbreviated and stripped of examples. Whenever there's an ambiguous rule in the SRD, it's always best to go back to the primary source (in this case, Player's Handbook).

Stone to Flesh has no ability to create hit dice where they never existed before. Spells like Raise Dead can restore life to a deceased creature, not create life from a fleshy statue.

I actually thought the SRD was torn straight out of the related books, and just formatted differently, you learn something new every day then!

[Mystral]

It seems Meta is talking about Stone to Flesh in 3.5 not PF

The example in 3.5 is misleading, but the concrete description of the effect is the same, an inert mass of flesh, without any sort of bones or organs.

[Segev]

This suggests - to me, at least - that there is some internal differentiation and distinction to a petrified being's stone form that is lacking in a solid, originally-stone statue.

Either that, or a petrified being is not "dead," and its soul is actively trapped within (probably in an unconscious state), and the presence of said soul is what is interacting with stone to flesh to cause it to reverse the petrification rather than simply convert stone to flesh.

This also makes me wonder if a sufficiently skilled sculptor working with a mage who had the soul of a passed-on being could infuse the soul into the statue and have stone to flesh "unpetrify" it because there is a soul to interact with the magic.

[LanSlyde]

This suggests - to me, at least - that there is some internal differentiation and distinction to a petrified being's stone form that is lacking in a solid, originally-stone statue.

Either that, or a petrified being is not "dead," and its soul is actively trapped within (probably in an unconscious state), and the presence of said soul is what is interacting with stone to flesh to cause it to reverse the petrification rather than simply convert stone to flesh.

This also makes me wonder if a sufficiently skilled sculptor working with a mage who had the soul of a passed-on being could infuse the soul into the statue and have stone to flesh "unpetrify" it because there is a soul to interact with the magic.

I like that idea. It would probably involve some Magic Jar shenanigans.

[DrMotives]

I like it. You'd be using a fairly high craft sculpture check (probably have to use fabricate for internal organs) and you'd get a customizable reincarnation.

[Mystral]

This suggests - to me, at least - that there is some internal differentiation and distinction to a petrified being's stone form that is lacking in a solid, originally-stone statue.

Either that, or a petrified being is not "dead," and its soul is actively trapped within (probably in an unconscious state), and the presence of said soul is what is interacting with stone to flesh to cause it to reverse the petrification rather than simply convert stone to flesh.

This also makes me wonder if a sufficiently skilled sculptor working with a mage who had the soul of a passed-on being could infuse the soul into the statue and have stone to flesh "unpetrify" it because there is a soul to interact with the magic.

The thought that a petrefied being still has a soul trapped inside of it is supported by RAW, Flesh to Stone mentions that the creature petrified is not dead.

[BowStreetRunner]

I had to go back and look at the Players Handbook and SRD again, but they both do in fact include the statement about it becoming a corpse. To me, this is very similar in concept to the Clone spell in that the flesh would be inert as there is no soul to restore to it via a resurrection or similar spell.

[Segev]

Speaking strictly about the RAW, if the word "corpse" is used, that is a distinct rules term from "inert flesh." Inert flesh cannot be, for example, animated into a zombie. A corpse can.

Which means you could theoretically have a RAW-legal necromancer using stone to flesh to create corposes into which he makes zombies, without so much as disrespecting a single once-living body!

[BowStreetRunner]

Which means you could theoretically have a RAW-legal necromancer using stone to flesh to create corposes into which he makes zombies, without so much as disrespecting a single once-living body!
Next time I play a non-evil necromancer I am totally using this.

[Necroticplague]

You couldn't bring it back to life because it never had life to begin with. Resurrective magics look for the soul that goes with the body, then smacks it back inside. If you tried this, you'd get a 404, soul not found error. You could, however, grant it new life, such as through animating it.

[ekarney]

The thought that a petrefied being still has a soul trapped inside of it is supported by RAW, Flesh to Stone mentions that the creature petrified is not dead.

I do recall there's certain spells and such that take the victims soul out of it's body. So that opens up some avenues for statue resurrecting. Plus it's less suspicious is the Wizard has a couple of statues of himself made as opposed to cloning himself.


Next time I play a non-evil necromancer I am totally using this.

You could even do it with an evil necromancer! When was the last time you heard a necromancer say "Oh no I have way to many corpses!"

[Vinyl Scratch]

There's no soul attached to the body.

If you had some way to give or transfer a soul to the new body, maybe it would work.

[Cerefel]

You couldn't bring it back to life because it never had life to begin with. Resurrective magics look for the soul that goes with the body, then smacks it back inside. If you tried this, you'd get a 404, soul not found error. You could, however, grant it new life, such as through animating it.

I don't recall ever seeing anything about creating undead requiring that the corpse ever had a soul. Source?

[Curmudgeon]

I don't recall ever seeing anything about creating undead requiring that the corpse ever had a soul. Source?

The spell must be cast on a dead body.
To be dead requires that the body at one time was alive. That's different from "inert and lacking a vital life force".

[Elric VIII]

Just cast a permanent animate object on it, first.

[Cerefel]

To be dead requires that the body at one time was alive. That's different from "inert and lacking a vital life force".

I'd argue that "dead body" is synonymous with "corpse".

[Curmudgeon]

I'd argue that "dead body" is synonymous with "corpse".
In real life, I'd agree with you. In the fantasy world of D&D there are other possibilities, so these aren't quite so synonymous.

[ThinkMinty]

There's no soul attached to the body.

If you had some way to give or transfer a soul to the new body, maybe it would work.

Soul Jar, golem shenanigans, or if you're making undead...dead is dead for most kinds of undead.

My guess is Soul Jar.

[Killer Angel]

To be dead requires that the body at one time was alive. That's different from "inert and lacking a vital life force".

Still, the idea of a LG necromancer that creates an "undead" army without real dead, it's too tempting. :smallwink: