Seerow Reads: Codex Alera

[Seerow]

Welcome one and all to a read along of Jim Butcher's Codex Alera! This is a freshly started project, and I am currently reading Book 1: Furies of Calderon. Update schedule will be "One chapter posted every time I get around to reading", for the next few weeks I expect to be able to update pretty frequently (ideally a few chapters per day), around the end of the month I'll probably slow down to a few chapters a week instead.

Spoiler Policy: Please keep discussion of any events I have not yet made a post covering in spoilers. Right now that means keeping most discussion not relating directly to the first few chapters in spoilers, but that will of course gradually open up as I get deeper. Thank you for your consideration of me and of anyone else who may happen to be reading the series for the first time.

Updates

Furies of Calderon
Prologue-Chapter 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19779146&postcount=22)
Chapter 2-Chapter 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19780173&postcount=24)


Note: In case you are new to the thread and confused: The thread originally started asking whether I should read Codex Alera or Sword of Truth, so most of the first page of posts is responding to that. Rather than making a new thread I decided to repurpose this one once I began reading Codex Alera in response to a nearly overwhelming majority.



Hey all. I've been considering starting a read along on the forums. I tried this once a few years ago with Wheel of Time, but ultimately got bored putting up recaps for a series I had already finished, and gave up midway through book 2. This time I plan on doing it as I dive into a new series, with taking it slow and having the time to digest and speculate hopefully keeping me entertained enough to stick it through to the end.

As the title states, right now I am looking at Sword of Truth and Codex Alera.

Sword of Truth I've heard very little good about, except that it strongly resembles Wheel of Time. Reading that I expect to end up snarking at a lot, but I also worry based on what I have heard a lot of things in it may tread closely to politics... though I'm not sure how much of it is fantasy politics vs author's real life politics being delivered in a fantasy medium.

Codex Alera I've heard even less about, basically all I know about the series is that it is written by Jim Butcher and it is a Fantasy series that is already finished. I do know that I have read the Dresden files, and enjoy Butcher's writing, so that's a huge plus.

Currently I own the first book of both series, but haven't opened the first page of either. I was hoping to get some feedback from others in the community who have read one or both series as to what would be the most fun to go through, whether from the perspective of "this is a better series" or "This will be more fun to talk about". So, any thoughts?

[Gavinfoxx]

Sword of Truth is kinda like the budget crap ripoff version of Wheel of Time. With, um, a completely gratuitous BDSM scene. For like 100 pages. That's the bad kind of pretend-BDSM-this-is-actually-rape. Codex Alexa, on the other hand, is awesome. It has Pokemon and Lost Roman Legion and Zerg! Go read Codex Alera!

[Kantaki]

I would recommend Codex Alara.
It is a fun series with a interesting setting. Plus it is shorter than Sword of Truth (at least I think so):smallbiggrin:

[Starwulf]

Codex Alera! I just got finished reading it myself(literally just finished the last book a week ago). Great read, unique take on "magic", enjoyable political set-up and as someone else mentioned "Lost roman legion" :)

[Lethologica]

I'm curious about Sword of Truth, but in a morbid sort of way. It's way too long for a hate-read, so if you're planning to do a full series, I'd definitely recommend Codex Alera instead.

[GAZ]

Sword of Truth starts off with some weird domination stuff and ends up being very crazy objectivist screed. I couldn't finish it.

Codex Alera starts off with small story about a shepherd looking for lost sheep and ends up being a world spanning battle for the lives of like 5 different kinds of people. Every step of the journey is either awesome, funny, or emotional as all get out. I've read it twice.

Go Alera.

[Ifni]

I haven't read Codex Alera, but would recommend almost any other fantasy series over Sword of Truth. I guess this reread might get me to read Codex Alera :smallwink:

Book 1 of Sword of Truth isn't too bad (although, yes, it does have an extended sexual-torture scene), but in later books it rapidly descends into a thinly veiled political screed, and it's very much "author's real life politics being delivered in a fantasy medium", rather than fantasy politics. (As one example that is far from the most egregious, the villains of one book are very thinly veiled caricatures of Bill and Hillary Clinton, right up to having similar names.) I made it to Book 6 before I threw the book across the room, gave away the entire series, and resolved never to buy any of Goodkind's books again.

(On the upside, this meant I missed the scene where the hero valiantly massacres a bunch of anti-war protestors "armed only with their hatred for moral clarity" :smallyuk:)

[Misery Esquire]

The Sword of Truth is... Well. Marty Stu and The Political Commentary, With Magic. ...And as the previous posters mentioned ; rape. Lots of it.

I'd be interested in Codex Alera, as I've been meaning to pick up the series.

[Anteros]

Is Codex Alera really that good? I was largely unimpressed with the Dresden files (it wasn't terrible, it just wasn't good enough to warrant a 16 book investment).

[Starwulf]

Is Codex Alera really that good? I was largely unimpressed with the Dresden files (it wasn't terrible, it just wasn't good enough to warrant a 16 book investment).

It is, as far as I'm concerned anyways, positively amazing. On a somewhat recent thread talking about book recommendations and what not, I was asking for some ideas, and I gave a few examples of fantasy series I enjoyed and I mentioned Codex Alera. Someone asked me what it was I liked about it and I couldn't answer because it had been a while, so I went back and re-read it, and I can now say I LOVE the following: The unique take on "Magic" in the series. Instead of casting spells and what not, people have "Furies" which is kind of akin to elemental pokemon, just vastly more powerful. The stronger people in the series can wield multiple furies, where the weaker people can usually wield one or two at best, but can often still be quite strong with just that.

I love the political system. It's full of intrigue and it does keep you guessing fairly often. It runs the emotional gamut of "OH my god that was totally awesome how that political manuever worked out" to "What in the flying hell, how the hell did that person get away with that/why would they do it, that's BS" to "Huh...I don't really understand their reasoning, hopefully it works".

I like how attached to the main character you get. His initial "Weakness" isn't just magically solved right away, and his growth because of that is quite impressive and ends up giving him a significant advantage by the end of the series. I also enjoy how well the secondary characters are portrayed and how bonded to their survival you become as well. Even the people who are shown in a negative light you end up...if not caring about, wondering just how their story is going to be resolved, and some of the resolutions are not quite what you expect at all.

As someone else mentioned and I also agreed, I also enjoy the "Lost roman Legion" which apparently is based on historical fact. That kind of threw me for a bit of a loop to find out it has it's roots in truth.

My only gripe is it doesn't appear he's going to write any more, and there is a LOT of room to explore in-universe, both in direct sequels, and even in prequels(There are many races that are mentioned as being died out and some of them sound especially interesting, I'd love to read about them).

[Velaryon]

Although I haven't read Codex Alera, I'll venture a guess that they're the better books, and it's probably not close.

That said, a Sword of Truth Let's Read could be a lot of fun, especially if it's mostly MST3K-style riffing on the book.

SoT has a lot of flaws, namely the torture porn storylines, the increasingly heavy-handed objectivist propaganda, and the lead protagonist being always right about everything. Always. But there are a lot of interesting supporting characters, the political ranting isn't too bad in the first book, and some of the monsters are cool.

If you're planning on reading the entire series though, then for the love of Cthulhu, choose Codex Alera.

[Lethologica]

Is Codex Alera really that good? I was largely unimpressed with the Dresden files (it wasn't terrible, it just wasn't good enough to warrant a 16 book investment).
I wasn't that hot on Codex Alera. It's entertaining, but largely conventional. But Sword of Truth is both inferior and closely comparable, leading to a definite consensus.

[The_Snark]

Is Codex Alera really that good? I was largely unimpressed with the Dresden files (it wasn't terrible, it just wasn't good enough to warrant a 16 book investment).

Speaking as someone who had more or less the same impression of the Dresden Files, I liked the Codex Alera books somewhat more. They didn't amaze me, but they were decent fun, and they were better-polished/more compact than the Dresden stuff I read.

If the OP likes Jim Butcher's other work then it's probably a good bet.

[Aquillion]

Codex Alera. I only read the first book of it, and my reaction, was meh, but...

While a Sword of Truth MST3K could be fun, this isn't the forum to do it, since that series has heavy, controversial political opinions that would just get the thread shut down when people inevitably start to argue over them.

[Eldan]

Same here. I was disappointed by Alera. It didn't have any of the wit or speed of the Dresden files at their best, the setting was pretty damn conventional and, well. For something that wanted to hhave a connection to Rome, there seemed to be far more Germanic than Roman elements.

[Kitten Champion]

I'd be fine with either.

If you're going to do the full series, do Codex Alera - not only is it better for your sanity, but it's more cohesive in terms of book-to-book continuity that from a basic following-the-plot-along standpoint it's much more fun. Following Sword of Truth, outside of having to read long author tracts on politics and squicky scenes of ickiness which just get worse as you go on, just gets repetitive as all hell.

However, if you're just reading the first book, I would say do Wizard's First Rule - there are a lot more notable events and particulars which would be fun to talk about, it wouldn't be littered with spoiler boxes of people arguing things from five books later, and it is impossible to spoil Sword of Truth in the first place. it's also a longer work to sink your teeth into, and unlike the later books largely has its politics obscured somewhat.

[An Enemy Spy]

Sword of Truth has so much to mock. Chickens that aren't chickens, naked people pretending to be ghosts, a guy getting up after the hero rips his spine out barehanded, the hero heroically slaughtering a bunch of unarmed peace protesters. Did I say unarmed, I meant "armed only with their hatred for moral clarity."

[Zaydos]

I am increasingly glad I stopped reading Sword of Truth after 2-3 books.

[Aquillion]

Sword of Truth has so much to mock. Chickens that aren't chickens, naked people pretending to be ghosts, a guy getting up after the hero rips his spine out barehanded, the hero heroically slaughtering a bunch of unarmed peace protesters. Did I say unarmed, I meant "armed only with their hatred for moral clarity."If this forum had a custom title system, I would make mine "Armed only with a hatred of moral clarity." So badass.

(I also think that "moral clarity" would be an amazing thing to have a character name their sword, although I suspect that a lot of people would miss the irony.)

[Seerow]

So it seems like the strong consensus is Codex Alera, given the context of me wanting to finish the series and not just do a lone book. Also several posters have confirmed my fears that doing the full Sword of Truth would basically be setting the thread up for failure on these forums due to political stuff, as much fun as it might be to snark at various things.

So given that I will probably start the first book of the Codex tonight. Thanks for your input everyone!

[Dienekes]

Dang late to the party. I would have voted for Sword of Truth, because I'm a sadistic ass who wants to see Seerow suffer.

Also I would have loved to see his reaction to The Chicken That Was Not A Chicken scene.

[Seerow]

All right, back a bit later than I expected. I got sidetracked by unanticipated celebrations, but I have now begun reading!

Prologue:
This one's really short, less than 2 pages total. A bit of a monologue about how one person can change the course of history without knowing it, written by the First Lord of Alera. I'm not sure if this is a historical figure who founded Alera (ie the First lord) or a title for the equivalent of a high lord or King (ie the First Lord).

This is immediately followed by being introduced to a young couple. We only get a name for the boy (Tavi), while the namelss young girl tries to convince Tavi to do her a favor.

The monologue from the First Lord being the first thing we read in the series has to be important, that's not the kind of thing an author will just toss in to be meaningless. I'm guessing this Tavi is our young hero, and him agreeing to help our as of yet nameless young woman with a 'small favor' is one of those crucial turning points being discussed. Hopefully we'll get some context in the next chapter.


Chapter 1
Here's our first big info dump chapter, setting the stage for the story and the world. Already I have found the Lost Roman Legion everyone was talking about (glad to find out that is not in fact a plot twist spoiler and is apparently just a central premise of this first book), and a bunch of other information besides.

Plot Summary: We have a heroine named Amara, who seems to be an apprentice member of a group called the Cursors. It would seem they are widely known as couriers, but secretly serve as spies. Amara is undertaking a mission where she is in charge to complete her apprenticeship. She is accompanied by Fidelias, who tries to offer her advice while toeing the line of what is acceptable for the test.

Amara and Fidelias are posing as smugglers, with Amara taking the role of slave while Fidelias is acting the part of the trader/smuggler, delivering a bunch of Iron Ore to what they presume is a rogue army. They encounter a lone guard who is suspicious of them, and takes them into the camp. The two are then separated, with Fidelius being brought into a tent to meet with the general, and a young slave girl being kicked out of the tent. This is predictably a test of Amara, who fails miserably by being far too forward with her questions and too obviously interested in a stray note. Slave girl pushes Amara into the water, which then seems to act independently to subdue Amara while the Slave girl changes shape, from the dirty pitiful thing displayed to a beautiful woman, which I presume is her true form, or at least preferred (depending on how limited her shapeshifting ability is).

Details of Note

Lots of references to furies, which I presume is the magic in this world. One of Fidelias's suggestions was to use furies to bust in and bust out quickly, and at the end Amara tries to call her furies, so I assume all Cursors, or at least both of these two, are magic users in addition to whatever spy training they get.
On the note of spy training... they apparently don't get much of it, if Amara was up for graduation and that was her performance? Going from 0 to caught in under a minute the second she's alone.
Gargant Bull! The first and only animal I noticed in this chapter, and it is a bull that must be at least 20ft tall (we're told that Fidelias comes up to the beast's thigh) and can carry literally a ton of ore on its back.
The guard who brought the two Cursors in was Aldrick ex Gladius aka The Sword. Apparently the best swordsman alive. What's such a noteworthy figure doing in this renegade army, and why was he playing guard when there's certainly better things someone like that could be doing?
The Black Sashes. When they first showed up on women training like the men, I was thinking it was a mark of women soldiers, but when Amara is captured they place a black sash on them. Is it a form of imprisonment? If so why is it only on females? And if it does enable some sort of magical compulsion, why is it not on the slaves?
There's mention of Knights as being an elite unit, and it was referenced that they use Furies. It'd be strange to call a unit knights who didn't have armor or use swords, so I presume for now that they're a group of gishes, elite soldiers who use magic.
And on that note, there was a mention in the camp description of a bunch of young men being trained by a furymaster. A group of Knights in training? I want to think this is the case, but Amara didn't seem to think the Furymaster's presence was unusual, so maybe magic is just far more common than I was thinking. But if that's the case what sets Knights apart?
Sorceress Chick tells Amara that they "need" her. What for? She's obviously not a great spy, and spies aren't exactly someone you want operating under duress regardless. Is it just for another soldier, since she evidently has access to Furies herself?
Pretty sure High Lord got confirmed here to be a Title for someone currently alive. Amara wants to get word to the First Lord. Also assuming the paper wasn't faked specifically to get Amara to blow her cover, then this Legion is being backed by one of the High Lords (Atticus Quentin).


Three Bits of Speculation

Amara is the nameless girl we saw in the prologue, while Tavi is somewhere in this camp. She's trying to get help to break free or send a message out or something.
The Sword's presence here is a big deal, and he's going to be a major player going forward.
Fidelius is dead. I think there's something about those Black Sashes that make Amara important to this camp, but Fidelius isn't going to get one, so while they will hold on to Amara for whatever use they have in mind for her, Fidelius is dead man walking. Amara will blame herself.

[Seerow]

Dang late to the party. I would have voted for Sword of Truth, because I'm a sadistic ass who wants to see Seerow suffer.

Also I would have loved to see his reaction to The Chicken That Was Not A Chicken scene.

Maybe I'll take a break at some point and do book 1 of sword of truth, since consensus seems to be doing a single book there is preferable and less likely to end in getting in trouble with forum rules.

[Seerow]

All right, couple more chapters for today, and I'll go for another 3-4 tomorrow, next time I'll hold them all for one post.

Chapter 2
Another really dense chapter, quick plot progression plus a lot of details about the magic system. And I've already been proven spectacularly wrong on several points of speculation from chapter 1. Especially the whole thing with Black Sashes (which after reading the last couple pages of chapter 1 again looks like it could have been Odiana putting the sash on herself, and not on Amara the way I had originally read it, which changes a lot).

Plot Summary: Amara wakes up burried up to her neck in the mud. This apparently nulifies her ability to call her fury, since it is a Wind Fury. Fidelius indicates the metal cage binding him keeps him from calling his two furies. He tells Amara that it is useless, and they've already lost, but not before first telling her she's in a worse spot than him because she just failed her test (this little line stuck out to me and made me really like Fidelius).

Odiana and Aldrick show up, and tell Amara that she's needed, but Fidelius is not. They take him out of his cage and out of the tent and execute him. Odiana tries to interrogate Amara about the guard kept on the First Lord, but Amara refuses to divulge any information, and then after thinking it over comes to the same realization I had last chapter: They were set up. She then takes this a step further though, and determines that Fidelius was the one who set her up, because Fidelius would have known trouble was coming and warned her otherwise.

As soon as she calls them on it, Fidelius comes back into the tent, and automagically wipes the bruise off his face and cops to it. My first thought here is that this is actually an elaborrate test of loyalty, but that hope gets quickly crushed as he continues to try to convince her to give up the information on the First Lord's Defense. She continues to refuse to tell anything, and somehow manages to palm Fidelius's boot dagger without him noticing, and once he's outside she uses that dagger to free herself from the earth.

Once free, she grabs a shortsword conveniently laying nearby, manages to draw blood on the 'best swordsman in the world', and then escape by cutting her way through a tent, slapping some mud off herself, and calling Cirrus to spirit her away. I gave Amara crap for being awful at subterfuge, but this seems like too much the opposite direction. I will give her credit for being crafty under pressure, but cutting the legendary swordsman was just over the top.

The rest of her escape doesn't go quite as well as that first bit, as she runs headlong into a forrest being controlled by a powerful Woodcrafter, which actively blocks her from just flying away. She does manage to get out of the forest, and then turns and looks back (using some form of wind magic to make some makeshift binoculars) just in time to see the Wood Knight step out and touch a tree in the forest she just escaped. A half dozen giant forms rise up and start chasing after her, and she's hoping she can last until nightfall before being overtaken.

Details of Note

Apparently Odiana is actually the fake Slave/Sorceress' actual name. I avoided using it last chapter because I really assumed it was a fake name. Apparently not so.
Furies seem to be elementals that are bound to an individual. Amara seems to have just one Fury, Cirrus the Air Elemental. Odiana is referred to as a "Water Witch" and controls at least one Water Fury. The Wood Knight seems to have at least 6 Wood Furies, and Fidelius has at least 2 furies, and at least one of those (likely both from what I've seen thus far) are Earth.
People with different furies have different abilities they get with them. Okay that terminology isn't going to work, until I get a better word from the story to use I'm referring to these people as Binders. Anyway, in addition to the elemental manipulation you expect, they seem to get little extras like Water Binders can act as lie detectors, while Earth Binders can negate that ability. What do other binders get?
To nullify a Binder, you surround them with their opposing element. So Fidelius was cut off by being suspended out of reach of earth, while Amara was kept from the air by a coat of earth. How does one stop a water binder then? Do you have to literally light them on fire? What is the opposite of Wood? Metal?
I glossed over it, but Fidelius' argument with Amara was pretty compelling, and gave a lot of insight into local politics. The whole thing with one district feeling like the other district is a drain on resources and wants freedom from taxation to support them really reminds me of the Farseer Trilogy more than anything, hopefully things won't go quite as awfully as they did there. But the Royal Line having no heirs or named successors is a big deal, and I can't blame Fidelius for wanting to jump ship before it's too late. What is the First Lord thinking?
The sunset that Amara is hoping for. Is that for some Fury related reason (say those giant tree elementals vanishing), or just in general so she can try to hide and slip behind them? Hard to say but I'm keeping it in mind, I know Sunrise/Sunset is a big deal in Dresden, so I wouldn't put it past Butcher to have them with magical complications here.
Fun little detail: Amara thinks the sound of Fidelius being stabbed is a lot like a knife going into a mellon. In retrospect I wonder if that wasn't exactly what she actually heard.


Three Bits of Speculation

All Binders in Caldera use a single type of Fury, a master of a single element. Our hero will be someone who gets to be awesome and use all of them Avatar Style.
Knights are special because they can bind more furies than other people. What measures a Binder's power is how many furies they attract. What having more furies allows you to do is still up in the air, since Amara seems pretty awesome with just her lone Cirrus.
(Cop Out) There's more than just petty politics and taxes behind this rebellion/coup attempt. At least one person involved is playing a deeper game. If I had to guess it's someone we haven't met yet manipulating the High Lord into acting up. This rebellion/missing legion reeks to me of an entry level plot hook to let our heroes gain some experience before a bigger supernatural entity shows up for them to focus their attention on.
(Bonus!)Fidelius is not in fact a dead man walking, and I will eat crow repeatedly as I continue this speculation section.



Chapter 3
We're swapping viewpoints now, so I don't get to find out what happens at Sundown. We're coming back to Tavi, the boy from the prologue who appears to be a part of a much humbler class of citizen than our Cursors.

Plot Summary: This chapter is taking place the morning after the prologue, our young Tavi attempts to sneak out of the house to finish some work he ignored the night before in favor of doing a favor for the young lady in the prologue (Spoiler: Since I have finished the chapter, I was wrong about young lady turning out to be Amara). Tavi gets caught sneaking out by his Uncle (whom I shall continue to refer to as "Uncle" instead of "Bernard" because really, Bernard?), who appears to be his guardian and mentor. Either I've missed my mark or we have an Orphan Destined For Great Things on our hands, everyone sound the alarm. Oh and to boot, he's a bleeding sheepherder. You know who else was a sheepherder? Rand Bloody Al'Thor that's who. Yeah nobody's convincing me this kid isn't going to end up being a main character and ridiculously overpowered by the end of this series.

Anyway, back on topic, we learn that Tavi doesn't have a flock of his own, but was expecting his Uncle to gift him one; and is now worried he will not due to the previous night's indiscretions. We get some talking about shepherd stuff and where sheep go that I couldn't care less about, but during the course of conversation get another point telling us Tavi is special: He doesn't have a Fury of his own. This is called out as being really weird for a boy his age, so apparently literally everyone in this world has Furies/magic. Except Tavi.

Anyway, the two of them go tracking down the sheep. Tavi notices some spooked furies, and Uncle calls one of his furies (apparently Wood type from the description) and confirms that there's someone hiding in the woods with a powerful fury, identified as Kord (a local landlord). Uncle decides the appropriate response for dealing with a guy hiding in the brush when he shouldn't be is to shoot him with a bow and arrow.

The arrow grazes another boy about Tavi's age (Bittan), and said boy's older brother (Bernard) and Father (Kord) come out from hiding nearby and argue with Uncle. They trade some barbs and Kord makes some threats, but Uncle mentions that some guy named Warner is already in town and has his sons from the Army visiting him. After they part ways, we get some exposition about what's going on. Apparently Kord and family were getting ready to attack Warner because Warner has accused Bittan of Rape, and if Bittan is convicted Kord stands to be punished as well (because Rape is a "Realm" offense).

Uncle then drops a bead in the river and somehow this allows him to talk to his Wife. She is apparently acting as the "Truthfinder" for the case, between this and the river thing I'm guessing she's a Water Witch. She warns the duo to make sure they're back before Sundown because "Garados and his wife" are brewing up a storm. Uncle promises they'll be home well before then, but before they go Aunt calls out Tavi on giving a garland of hollybells to a girl in town and promises they'll talk about it when he gets back.

Once they're alone, Tavi concludes to his Uncle that lesson learned is women are trouble, and with some vague reminiscing, the chapter ends.

Details of Note

Furystorms are a thing that are apparently separate from a normal storm. Garados is apparently the name of the mountain nearby, but the wife as described could be a spirit or just the weather pattern. Either way this furystorm is going to send things to hell.
That damn bead. Was it meaningless and Uncle can just call two different kinds of furies? Or is it an item that lets Uncle call his Wife's fury? Would Tavi, who has no fury be able to use said bead?
Apparently Tavi isn't just unusual for not having a fury yet, but considered a freak. That makes this setting incredibly high magic, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this affect's the world's development when we get to seeing some major centers of civilization.
Bittan felt confident in his family's ability to kill Warner and his Legionarre sons. Probably brovado given he's 15 but Kord himself seemed intimidating, so it is possible.
Thus far an annoying lack of detail about how furies are acquired. This is another thing I suspect will become important later. Like do they just randomly show up and attach themselves to people? What attracts them? What makes Tavi different? What makes some people attract more than others? Can you attract more later in life as long as you get your first early? So many questions!
I was much more comfortable with Uncle shooting Bittan after realizing that a) he's apparently skilled enough to aim to grace without serious injury and b) Bittan is standing accused of (and likely guilty of) rape. Also let's be honest, I'm a horrible person and the mental image of a teenager squealing and clutching his rump after getting shot in the ass is hilarious, I wasn't too offended by the action to start with.


Three Bits of Speculation

Amara and the rogue legion are in this general area. Tavi's decision to get in trouble over a girl is going to result in him getting in even more trouble over a different girl, and somehow change the course of history.
Amara was hoping to evade capture until nightfall because she already knew of the coming furystorm, and is confident in her ability to ride it out (because of her wind fury?) while expecting her persuers to have to go to ground, buying her time and distance.
I'm really hoping I don't get dragged into a lengthy rape trial involving characters I haven't even really met. But I suspect this subplot will be relevant simply because half the chapter was dedicated to setting it up.

[Kantaki]

Aldrick is the best swordsman? Says who?:smallamused: No, seriously the right kind of furycrafting can enhance certain skills a lot.

And Tavi? Well, not to spoil to much, but isn't is nice to have a protagonist who is „special” because of a drawback?

Regarding the nullification: No you don't set people with waterpowers ablaze, a fire ring does suffice.

[Douglas]

The official term for people who use furies is Furycrafter in general, or <element>crafter in specific. The related terms Furycrafted, Furycrafting, etc. all work in the obvious way.

A bit of out of book background you might not be aware of: The whole series came about because of a wager. Jim Butcher had an argument with someone else, I don't recall who. The other person insisted that some story concepts were so inherently bad that writing a good story based on them was impossible, while Butcher maintained that a good writer could make a good story out of any concept. Jim Butcher bet that he could write a good story using not just one, but two "inherently bad" base concepts of his opponent's choice. The concepts chosen were "pokemon" and "lost Roman legion". And so Codex Alera was born, with Furies modeled after pokemon and a society descended from the mythical lost Roman legion who somehow found themselves in this world long ago and proceeded to carve out a nation for themselves from the wilderness.

There's a lot more I could say about in-setting background, particularly mechanics of Furies and societal structure and organization, but I get the feeling you'd rather get that piecemeal from the books.

[Hiro Protagonest]

A bit of out of book background you might not be aware of: The whole series came about because of a wager. Jim Butcher had an argument with someone else, I don't recall who. The other person insisted that some story concepts were so inherently bad that writing a good story based on them was impossible, while Butcher maintained that a good writer could make a good story out of any concept. Jim Butcher bet that he could write a good story using not just one, but two "inherently bad" base concepts of his opponent's choice. The concepts chosen were "pokemon" and "lost Roman legion". And so Codex Alera was born, with Furies modeled after pokemon and a society descended from the mythical lost Roman legion who somehow found themselves in this world long ago and proceeded to carve out a nation for themselves from the wilderness.

Huh, I thought that Butcher had just made an offer to combine two ideas tossed at him randomly. Whoever made that argument has clearly never read Pokemon Adventures.

[Starwulf]

Aldrick is the best swordsman? Says who?:smallamused: No, seriously the right kind of furycrafting can enhance certain skills a lot.

And Tavi? Well, not to spoil to much, but isn't is nice to have a protagonist who is „special” because of a drawback?

Regarding the nullification: No you don't set people with waterpowers ablaze, a fire ring does suffice.

Just wanted to further address the Aldrick bit. He is extremely full of himself. A lot of it IS warranted certainly though.

As far as furies go(this is towards Seerow: As I said in an earlier post on this thread(so if you read that, I don't think this can be considered a spoiler), everyone has furies, even peasants. Most people(commoners) can only handle one type of furycraft however(or is only capable of using one type at any rate), however "Citizens" are usually capable of handling several different types with an exceptional ability, and usually have at least a rudimentary skill in several other furycraft disciplines.

Standard Nobility and "Knights" take this a step further and usually are capable of at least minor feats in ALL furycraft and have one or two at an exceptional level(Knights are put in divisions according to their particularly skills, ie: Knights Aeries for Wind manipulation, Knights Terra for earth, Knights Flora for archers, etc). High lords however are literally in an entirely different class. They don't have ANY weak spots in their furycraft, and many excel to an incredible level in multiple disciplines. Their weakest skills would be enough for them to be considered "Knight" level alone, and their strongest abilities allow them to perform feats of immense ability(Such as stop tornadoes with a flick of their wrist, Set fire(or put out) to large swathes of land with barely an effort, divert rivers from their course, etc).

Then there is the First Lord of Alera, who is the Leader of Alera. It is an inherited position in a single family, the Gauis family. Because of...reasons that I can't tell for now(it's a major spoiler) and also because of their bloodline, the First Lord is absolutely the strongest furycrafter in the land. He has no discipline that he does not excel at. I can't give any examples of feats, mostly because any one that I could would be a major spoiler.

[An Enemy Spy]

So is this like a fantasy series in a Rome like world or something?

[Douglas]

Starwulf, that's... borderline spoilers, I'm not sure if Seerow wants to see that kind of detail here. Also, I think at least some of it is wrong.

A Knight has strong ability in one element. Period. Some have more, but anyone with enough strength in the single element can qualify. It is a military position, and Knights are usually part of a Legion. Knights Aeris, specifically, require sufficient strength with aircrafting to fly. The Knight rank exists primarily for military organizational purposes.

A Citizen, unless the rank is granted for special circumstances, is the cream of Alera's Furycrafting crop - Knight-level strength in multiple elements, often at least some strength in others. It is a civilian rank, bestowing privileges and civil responsibilities but not (usually) requiring or associated with military service. The Citizen rank exists primarily to encourage breeding greater Furycrafting strength - it is considered a Citizen's duty to beget heirs who will inherit his or her Furycrafting ability, preferably with the other parent also contributing meaningful power.


So is this like a fantasy series in a Rome like world or something?
It's a fantasy series in another world where the distant ancestors of the central nation came from Rome. The backstory is that the Lost Roman Legion (from real world history) somehow stumbled into another world, and proceeded to build a new nation there. The nation most of the action centers on, Alera, was founded by that Legion and has many cultural and military elements inherited from it through the generations, though the founding event is in the distant past.

[Eldan]

The Main thing I was wondering, havinf only read book one:
Why is everything so dann Germanic? Almost all personal names, a lot of worldbuilding... In fact, there doesnt Seen to be much that's Roman.

[GloatingSwine]

Because it's based on two things, Pokemon and the Lost Roman Legion. (Jim originally wrote it for a bet to settle whether good ideas or good execution were more important, he challenged the person he was arguing with to give him two terrible/overdone ideas and he would write a story. Since he got a six book publishing deal we can see who won the argument)

The Lost Roman Legion was the IX Hispanian legion which was comprised of mixed roman troops with Germanic auxillia.

Hence the mixture of names and cultural elements.

[Starwulf]

Starwulf, that's... borderline spoilers, I'm not sure if Seerow wants to see that kind of detail here. Also, I think at least some of it is wrong.

A Knight has strong ability in one element. Period. Some have more, but anyone with enough strength in the single element can qualify. It is a military position, and Knights are usually part of a Legion. Knights Aeris, specifically, require sufficient strength with aircrafting to fly. The Knight rank exists primarily for military organizational purposes.

A Citizen, unless the rank is granted for special circumstances, is the cream of Alera's Furycrafting crop - Knight-level strength in multiple elements, often at least some strength in others. It is a civilian rank, bestowing privileges and civil responsibilities but not (usually) requiring or associated with military service. The Citizen rank exists primarily to encourage breeding greater Furycrafting strength - it is considered a Citizen's duty to beget heirs who will inherit his or her Furycrafting ability, preferably with the other parent also contributing meaningful power.


I'll have to disagree, and can prove at least a little bit with spoilers: In the second book when Bernard and Amara and their group get holed up in the cave fighting the Vord, Bernard and Giraldi go around interrogating the other soldiers/knights asking them if they have any other furycraft that might be able to help them. They discover that one of them has some Watercraft, enough to divert a stream so they could at least have fresh water while fighting. On the other hand, not all Citizens have significant talent in multiple furycraft disciplines.

They certainly aren't the "Cream of the crop", that's the high lords. Most of the holders in Calderon Valley absolutely prove that the Citizen title is more granted to "Who has more influence/money" then crafting skill, as it is repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that many of the holders had significantly more power then most of the Citizens that various characters have been around. Heck, look at Bernard AND his sister. Bernard is an absolutely amazing Archer and he is extremely strong due to his earthcrafting. Isana, when pushed often stretches beyond what she ever thought possible, diverting an entire river when Tavi's life is threatened in Book one, Becomes one with the Sea AND heals Fade(not giving real name, even in spoiler) of Garic poisoning, long after the point that it was said to have killed him. Frederick has significant earth-craft, and also eventually picks up some metalcrafting as well. I clearly recall several other mentions of holders that aren't citizens(Yes, I realize Bernard is one, and that Isana is granted via First Lord) that have ability on-par or even better then most Citizens that are mentioned.

Only the High Lords themselves, or their direct family are considered "Cream of the Crop" people. Your average Citizen is just that: Average. Throughout the series I honestly got the feeling that most Knights were on par or better then the Citizenry, if not because of raw talent, then because they hone what they have to incredible level and often pick up a bit more talent in other crafts(I believe it was Maximus or maybe the First Spear who mentions that even the regular soldiers eventually pick up a decent amount of metalcraft, and all of them can start a fire through furycraft).

In the end, it does seem to me that you were confusing Citizens(which there are HUGE amounts of) with the Lords/High Lords in terms of ability. If Amara wasn't a cursor, she'd be considered your average citizen, maybe a bit above since she can fly. She couldn't craft a veil very well before Gauis taught her, and couldn't do one at all while trying to do something else before him. She had zero watercraft ability, almost no earthcrafting, certainly no metalcraft or woodcraft either. Can't recall if she had any firecraft, not sure it ever came up. Same with Ehren, he was more smarts then crafter and he was a citizen He had woodcrafting and that was about it. Same with Rook, she was mostly earthcrafting(which was pretty decent because she was trained to be a seductress and that was their way of enhancement). More citizens are shown to be just average then are shown to be "Cream of crop" throughout the series.

As far as my post itself being "spoilers" as I mentioned at the end of it, anything I said in it, I had already previously mentioned in my earlier posts, with the exception of the specific breakdown of skills, and I don't really think giving power-rankings to groups are particularly spoilerish. Now if I had named specific instances(which I did avoid) I could see.

[Eldan]

The Lost Roman Legion was the IX Hispanian legion which was comprised of mixed roman troops with Germanic auxillia.

Hence the mixture of names and cultural elements.

Now I feel a bit ashamed that I did not think of the auxillia.

[Douglas]

I'll have to disagree, and can prove at least a little bit with spoilers: In the second book when Bernard and Amara and their group get holed up in the cave fighting the Vord, Bernard and Giraldi go around interrogating the other soldiers/knights asking them if they have any other furycraft that might be able to help them. They discover that one of them has some Watercraft, enough to divert a stream so they could at least have fresh water while fighting. On the other hand, not all Citizens have significant talent in multiple furycraft disciplines.

They certainly aren't the "Cream of the crop", that's the high lords. Most of the holders in Calderon Valley absolutely prove that the Citizen title is more granted to "Who has more influence/money" then crafting skill, as it is repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that many of the holders had significantly more power then most of the Citizens that various characters have been around. Heck, look at Bernard AND his sister. Bernard is an absolutely amazing Archer and he is extremely strong due to his earthcrafting. Isana, when pushed often stretches beyond what she ever thought possible, diverting an entire river when Tavi's life is threatened in Book one, Becomes one with the Sea AND heals Fade(not giving real name, even in spoiler) of Garic poisoning, long after the point that it was said to have killed him. Frederick has significant earth-craft, and also eventually picks up some metalcrafting as well. I clearly recall several other mentions of holders that aren't citizens(Yes, I realize Bernard is one, and that Isana is granted via First Lord) that have ability on-par or even better then most Citizens that are mentioned.

Only the High Lords themselves, or their direct family are considered "Cream of the Crop" people. Your average Citizen is just that: Average. Throughout the series I honestly got the feeling that most Knights were on par or better then the Citizenry, if not because of raw talent, then because they hone what they have to incredible level and often pick up a bit more talent in other crafts(I believe it was Maximus or maybe the First Spear who mentions that even the regular soldiers eventually pick up a decent amount of metalcraft, and all of them can start a fire through furycraft).

In the end, it does seem to me that you were confusing Citizens(which there are HUGE amounts of) with the Lords/High Lords in terms of ability. If Amara wasn't a cursor, she'd be considered your average citizen, maybe a bit above since she can fly. She couldn't craft a veil very well before Gauis taught her, and couldn't do one at all while trying to do something else before him. She had zero watercraft ability, almost no earthcrafting, certainly no metalcraft or woodcraft either. Can't recall if she had any firecraft, not sure it ever came up. Same with Ehren, he was more smarts then crafter and he was a citizen He had woodcrafting and that was about it. Same with Rook, she was mostly earthcrafting(which was pretty decent because she was trained to be a seductress and that was their way of enhancement). More citizens are shown to be just average then are shown to be "Cream of crop" throughout the series.
The high lords go far beyond "cream of the crop", all the way to "ridiculously extreme rare outliers". I am not confusing them with Citizens.

The strength of the Calderon holders is a local anomaly that almost no one outside of Calderon itself knows about.

I think one of us, and it could be me, is drastically misremembering just how many named characters are Citizens. For example, I don't recall Ehren or Rook ever being described as Citizens. Heck, I'm not sure about Amara either. From what I remember, the overwhelming majority of characters are not Citizens.

The big Citizen-related things I remember, aside from certain *******s abusing the associated respect and authority of the rank, are the call to war against the Vord and its results. When Gaius announces the war, he does it in a giant auditorium. As I recall, that auditorium is supposed to accommodate every Citizen in the city - a tall order for a city that size if more than a tiny fraction of its population are Citizens. As part of that announcement, he essentially drafts every Citizen to mandatory military duty. The result is that for the remainder of the series the Legions all have several times their normal complement of Knights, of all types.

[Seerow]

Honestly between a bunch of names ending with "ius", the short sword that Amara picks up as a Gladius, and dealing with Legionarres and a rogue Legion, I definitely feel like this is about as much Rome as I would know how to identify. Which probably speaks more about my knowledge of Roman culture than it does about the book, but hey. I got into this for fantasy not because of Roman influences specifically (which I did not know were a part of the book at all until starting the thread anyway)

Starwulf: New information I got out of your post included finding out that yes people can have more than one type fury, and rank/prestige seems to be tied very closely to how strong your furies are. These aren't big things (the second I had already guessed from Bernard being able to challenge for full citizenship based on his furycraft), but the first actually seems like a pretty big deal (though probably something that will get explained within the next few chapters anyway).

Douglass: Thanks for clarifying the terminology there. Though now knowing that every lowly peasant in the world can Furycraft, it seems weird that "Furycrafter" is a word they would have.

Also that background information is good to know. Though from what I've seen thus far I wouldn't compare furies to pokemon at all, so it is strange that that was the origin. I wonder if the person who issued the challenge was satisfied with how it was handled.

Kantaki:

Aldrick is the best swordsman? Says who? No, seriously the right kind of furycrafting can enhance certain skills a lot.

And Tavi? Well, not to spoil to much, but isn't is nice to have a protagonist who is „special” because of a drawback?

Regarding the nullification: No you don't set people with waterpowers ablaze, a fire ring does suffice.

1) Fidelius said he was the finest swordsman alive right in the first chapter. When that's coming from a worldly old spymaster I am inclined to take his opinion on such things at face value.

2) It is definitely different. The only other series I can think of offhand where that's the case would be the Reckoners (where your protagonists are normal people assassinating super villains). Definitely interested to see how it plays out.

3) But burning them alive sounds much more fun!


Anyway, posting chapters a bit later today. Thanks for the responses all.

[Douglas]

Douglass: Thanks for clarifying the terminology there. Though now knowing that every lowly peasant in the world can Furycraft, it seems weird that "Furycrafter" is a word they would have.
While it might technically be accurate to describe (almost) everyone in Alera as a Furycrafter, the word is normally used only when context is focused on the ability, and that kind of context is usually focused on above-average (or at least above some minimal strength) Furycrafters.

Also, in ancient history when the Lost Roman Legion first arrived, they didn't have Furycrafting. It's an ability they acquired in this fantasy world after arrival, and presumably they didn't all get it simultaneously, so it would have been a meaningful distinction when the word was new.


Also that background information is good to know. Though from what I've seen thus far I wouldn't compare furies to pokemon at all, so it is strange that that was the origin. I wonder if the person who issued the challenge was satisfied with how it was handled.
How much do you know about pokemon? The 6 element split is copied from them, among other things.

[Seerow]

How much do you know about pokemon? The 6 element split is copied from them, among other things.

I really figured the elements were classic mythology. I've only encountered 3 of them directly so far, but I was suspecting 5 (Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Wood), though double checking that apparently China had Metal instead of Air, Japan had Void instead of Wood, and Greek just had the 4. So yeah I guess that kind of makes sense, especially if the 6th element is Metal as the opposite of Wood.

But to me a big part of pokemon would be the ability to go out and get more, and the core idea that anybody can be the best through continuing to try. Whereas thus far it seems that with furycraft you attract what you are capable of using somehow or another (note: If I am wrong on this don't correct me, I'll find out in time).

[GloatingSwine]

I really figured the elements were classic mythology.

They're the classical Chinese elements plus air.

Furycraft has quite a lot of different applications, and not all of the things it does are the effects of a manifest fury (in fact, most of them aren't).


That damn bead. Was it meaningless and Uncle can just call two different kinds of furies? Or is it an item that lets Uncle call his Wife's fury? Would Tavi, who has no fury be able to use said bead?

The bead is a way for Bernard to speak to Isana through her fury. Though he can call two furies himself neither are water. (and one of them doesn't get much attention)


Though from what I've seen thus far I wouldn't compare furies to pokemon at all, so it is strange that that was the origin. I wonder if the person who issued the challenge was satisfied with how it was handled.

That was only the starting point from which it sprang. The way furies developed is more based on shinto animism (of which there are elements in Pokemon), hence the idea of wild furies being tied to specific places, and they were called "furies" because that sounded appropriately Romanish. Also, think about the name of that mountain if you want a really direct reference ;)

[Kantaki]

That was only the starting point from which it sprang. The way furies developed is more based on shinto animism (of which there are elements in Pokemon), hence the idea of wild furies being tied to specific places, and they were called "furies" because that sounded appropriately Romanish. Also, think about the name of that mountain if you want a really direct reference ;)

:smallbiggrin: The name gets even more painfully obvious if you play Pokèmon in german/ now the german names.:smallbiggrin:

[Starwulf]

The high lords go far beyond "cream of the crop", all the way to "ridiculously extreme rare outliers". I am not confusing them with Citizens.

The strength of the Calderon holders is a local anomaly that almost no one outside of Calderon itself knows about.

I think one of us, and it could be me, is drastically misremembering just how many named characters are Citizens. For example, I don't recall Ehren or Rook ever being described as Citizens. Heck, I'm not sure about Amara either. From what I remember, the overwhelming majority of characters are not Citizens.

The big Citizen-related things I remember, aside from certain *******s abusing the associated respect and authority of the rank, are the call to war against the Vord and its results. When Gaius announces the war, he does it in a giant auditorium. As I recall, that auditorium is supposed to accommodate every Citizen in the city - a tall order for a city that size if more than a tiny fraction of its population are Citizens. As part of that announcement, he essentially drafts every Citizen to mandatory military duty. The result is that for the remainder of the series the Legions all have several times their normal complement of Knights, of all types.

Considering I JUST got done reading less then two weeks ago the entire series.....

Amara isn't just a citizen, she's a Countess. Anyone who attends the academy is a citizens, Tavi is a special case because of his actions at second calderon. Most of the people at the academy, both named and unnamed are not "cream of the crop" at all. Brencis and Max are the only two I can think of, and again, sons of High lords. Brencis Cronies are only good at one(if you'll recall they specifically mention the bigger one as having a ton of earthcrafting beads, but almost none other). Even the teachers that were mentioned were only good at one discipline. Miles, the guard for Gauis is only mentioned to be proficient in metalcraft and a bit of firecraft(and while it's not mentioned, I refuse to believe that the personal guard for the First Lord of Alera is NOT a citizen) Officers in the military are citizens, and the only one that ever showed any skill outside of their given task was of course Max and Crassus(high lords sons) and their mom, and that's because she was a High Lord('s wife).

I'm sure if I racked my brain a bit more I could come up with a lot of other examples of people that were portrayed as citizens that only had one or two disciplines they were good at. Actually, when the fighting is going on in the 5th and 6th book they mention citizens being divided into the various knights corps(as you mentioned). If they were really "cream of the crop" good at everything, they wouldn't be specifically divided, they'd have made them into assault groups that could do everything. But they aren't, they are stuck where their crafting was the absolute strongest

Going a step further, if you'll recall in the 5th book the Vord start capturing knights and citizens at the end of battles. Bernard and Amara eventually find their camp(where Brencis is installing the special Slave Collars on them), and when they describe how the citizens are being held, they specifically mention that each one is held by a different type of cage(Earth for windcrafters, up in the air for earthcrafters, rings of fire for watercrafters, with water constantly streaming down for firecrafters, in cages of wood for metalcrafters and cages of metal with no wood nearby for woodcrafters. They also mention a few cages that were a combo of one or two others, but that there are only a few of those. If citizens were truly cream of the crop, every last person they took would have needed to be caged with multiple layers of protection to stop them from breaking out..

In the end, I again re-iterate that it's my believe that citizens are the average, Knights a step above because they specifically hone their primary and usually end up developing a second affinity, Lords/Counts(like Lord Gram, the former Count of Calderon) are the "cream of the crop", high lords are the "Holy hell these guys are flipping insane" and then their is Gauis and his line who specifically have an advantage granted to them by both their slight ability to see the future, + the spirit of Alera herself that coalesced into being after the original Gauis first collected pieces of Alera and wove them into a tapestry.



Starwulf: New information I got out of your post included finding out that yes people can have more than one type fury, and rank/prestige seems to be tied very closely to how strong your furies are. These aren't big things (the second I had already guessed from Bernard being able to challenge for full citizenship based on his furycraft), but the first actually seems like a pretty big deal (though probably something that will get explained within the next few chapters anyway).


My apologies, a simple typo actually gave away a bit more then I had intended. I had originally meant to say that people can have more then one type of furycraft. The original statement is in fact true, but I don't recall if it's revealed in the first book or not. If I had typed what I had meant, well that's covered within the first few chapters of the first book ^^

[dariathalon]

Yes, pretty much everyone in Alera can furycraft to some extent. The way I think of the word furycrafter is like the word artist. Yes, everyone can do art to some degree (even if it's just a very rough sketch). We probably wouldn't refer to most of those people as artists, except maybe to may comparisons like "she is a better furycrafter than he is."

[Seerow]

All right, here's the next two chapters. I read ahead another two after writing these ones up, but the write ups have been taking longer than I expected, so the other two chapters will probably be tomorrow.


Chapter 4
Aw damn did I not just say I didn't want to sit through a tedious trial? No trial yet, but we do switch perspectives to Isana so we can focus more on what's going on there, instead of sticking with Tavi and Uncle. This is disappointing.

Also I intended to make this chapter plot summary shorter than last time, but they seem to keep growing. Should I try harder to condense what's going on in the chapter, or do you guys like the longer descriptions?

Plot Summary: Isana is working on preparing a feast for that evening. Why are they having a feast when they know a huge storm is coming in? Why is there a feast when you have 2 families who hate each other staying at your place to take part in a rape trial? I don't know. I'm not sure anyone knows. But everyone is busy making this feast happen.

Issa works through lunch because as a Watercrafter she is sensitive to others' feelings and right now tensions are high enough she can't eat. Fair enough. Since it's now lunchtime and the boys aren't back yet, she sends Rill out to check on them (and yes, Rill is the same fury that was used to talk before, so Uncle somehow called Isana's fury).

Isana decides to take the opportunity to question Beritte about the hollybells she got, Beritte asks Isana if she's jealous and Isana snaps and in an instant of anger nearly boils Beritte alive with the water from the kettles in the kitchen. Beritte wisens up pretty quick and gets the hell out of dodge. Isana apparently has some pretty deep seated body issues because she's skinny and boyish and nobody wants her.

Isana calms herself down, checks back with Rill who shows an image of the boys walking together still looking for the flock (note: now past noon and still searching, still need to make it back after). Then suddenly tension spikes and Isana decides she needs to step outside to settle things down.

Outside we see Kord trying to goad Warner into settling the charges via a trial by combat (called Juris Macto here), by insulting his daughter, calling her a slut and telling his son he may as well have slept with a sheep as the girl. Dude's over 9000 on the prick scale, but he's looking like he's going to succeed in goading Warner up until Issana intervenes.

She walks up and tells everyone to back down. Bittan proves once again he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed by treating Isana like a cheap two-bit hooker, apparently having no idea who he's dealing with. She sets Rill on him as retaliation, and boy begins slowly drowning in the middle of the hold. This is the same kid who got shot in the ass less than 12 hours before, I'd almost feel sorry for him except... y'know rapist and jerkwad. So instead I took a break here to relish the moment and make some popcorn.

Isana convinces Warner to back down, extracting a promise from him that he won't rise to the bait and start a duel in her home. She convinces Kord that killing her is more trouble than he really wants to deal with, but doesn't bother extracting a promise from him because "you're scum and we both know it". She calls Rill off of Bittan and sends everyone back to work. Isana then pulls aside a slave who seems to be mentally handicapped and asks him to keep an eye on Kord for her. She then goes back to worrying about Uncle and Tavi.


Details of Note

Turns out Issana is Uncle's sister, not Wife as I had originally assumed. Does Uncle even have a wife, or is everyone in this family single except Tavi's presumably dead parents? Guess I'll find out.
Bernard is apparently a steadholder. I'm not sure if that was made clear in the previous chapter or not. It seems weird to me that there are land holders who are not full citizens, I really thought he was just a simple shepherd.
Apparently Furycrafters can manipulate elements independently of their Fury. The scene with Isana snapping at Beritte shocked me. I expected a slap, or some shouting, but boiling alive wasn't even on the list of things I thought she could do with Rill elsewhere.
We also get a little more insight into how the Watercrafter = Lie Detector thing works here. They get a general feeling for the emotions of everyone around them, not just whether or not they're lying. That's a neat touch, and is obviously a major pain to live with day to day... though does have its uses for manipulation.
We also find out that Watercrafters stay young forever. I wonder if this has to do with the shapeshifting abilities Odiana displayed back in chapter 1. I am guessing it's tied to how strong of a watercrafter you are (or else like 20% of the population is young forever, which is kind of weird).
Kord and sons are major *****. It's a fact.



Chapter 5
And we're back to Tavi and Uncle. Looks like things are starting to get rough. Short chapter, but action packed!

Plot Summary: Tavi and Uncle successfully track down the sheep after several hours of searching. Apparently sheep in this world are big (though not as big as the Gargants) and take their names very seriously (next time don't name your sheep Dodger).

They find the flock in the middle of a deep thicket, but several sheep are dead, in a rather peculiar manner. Uncle sees the bodies and flips out, insisting they leave right away leaving the flock behind. Unfortunately, it's not fast enough and they get attacked by what I can't help imagining as a chocobo, or maybe a velociraptor with wings. That said, this chocobo is no pushover, and fights by clawing the crap out of you with giant legs. It mauls Uncle pretty good; Tavi distracts it while Uncle calls his stronger Fury out. Brutus comes out (a stone dog the size of a pony, totally awesome) and taunts off Tavi who lands a solid blow to the creature's neck. He then continues flailing away at the creature until it finishes bleeding out.

Tavi helps patch Uncle up some by tying off his mangled leg, and we get some answers as to what that thing is. They are apparently called Herdbane, not Chocobo, and aren't common in the area. Uncle has Tavi inspect the corpse, and identifies a Marat colar. Apparently Marats are some sort of barbarian tribe/horde that caused trouble a couple decades ago, but haven't been an issue in Tavi's lifetime, but now there appears to be at least one in the area, and he likely has another Herdbane with him. Uncle commands Brutus to carry the two of them back home, so Brutus forms an earth raft and Uncle passes out.

Tavi hears more Herdbanes nearby, and realizes that Brutus won't outrun them and Uncle is done for if the Herdbanes attempt to take him. So Tavi decides to step up and play hero, he's going to attempt to distract the Herdbanes and lead them away. I strongly suspect if Uncle were not unconscious he would object to this plan, but since he couldn't stay awake he doesn't get a vote. It's hero time!

Tavi throws a few stones in other directions to try to distract them. The herdbane does go to investigate, but as Tavi tries to sneak back to the clearing he finds a Herdbane already there, along with a Marat. Said Marat is not happy that his pet is dead, and there's some whistling communication exchanged, indicating the presence of at least one other Marat (which explains why we heard at least 3 other herdbanes).

The Marat licks some blood from the dead herdbane and seems to identify where Tavi is from that almost immediately, but after he commands his living herdbane to go that direction, the herdbane picks up Uncles scent and decides that's more interesting, beelining straight for it.

Tavi isn't letting anyone ignore his attempt at heroic self-sacrifice though, and shouts and pelts the Marat with a stone hard enough to draw blood, then starts running into the thicket, hoping to use his smaller size to advantage in evading them. Oh and on top of everything else, a storm is coming. What a wonderful day.

Details of Note

Marat are described as "not unlike a man", not sure if this is deep seated racism, or they're actually another species. As described it sounds like just a tall well muscled guy with white hair in a loincloth.
Marat seem to have some sort of divination ability tied to blood. Or they're mundane and just have weird rituals, but in a fantasy book I'm leaning towards the former.
Is every animal in this setting huge? We have big sheep, we have Gargants, we have Giant Birds. I don't think there's even been a mention of a normal sized animal thus far. I thought the sheep were normal until Tavi started thinking about these being extra-large mountain sheep.
I'm kind of surprised that Uncle, despite apparently being a powerful furycrafter, just relied on summoning his fury in an animal form instead of doing something like sinking the bird two feet into the mud. I guess he's not strong enough to manipulate elements directly?
Apparently Tavi isn't half-bad with a sword when he has one in his hand. Good, because he's going to need that if he's going to spend a long time with no magic.
Thanks to someone pointing out to pay attention to the mountain name, I just noticed that our mountain is Gyarados. Not my first choice of names for a mountain, but not bad either.
Seeing the elemental manifestation I can see more of the links to pokemon. Also I want a pet rock dog!


Three Bits of Speculation

Fade, the mentally challenged slave, will be important somehow. Like Hodor is just Hodor, but Fade... we got a solid 2 pages of Isana trying to convey a simple order to him. Nearly as much time as was spent on the entire showdown between Kord and Warner. If he's not important that's a big waste of space.
If we don't have at least 3 trials by combat in this book I'll be shocked. In fact, despite Warner's promise I predict that this whole rape trial will be resolved via a duel.
Marat hordes may be the threat that Fidelius mentioned back in chapter 2 that the empire needs the Legions to defend against and some lords are tired of paying for. I didn't write down the specific name of the trouble and don't want to backtrack at the moment to check so I can't be sure, but I am going to guess this is the case, and also that Tavi is correct that this is just a precursor/scouting party; and we're about to see a large scale invasion in the middle of a civil war.

[Douglas]

Marat hordes may be the threat that Fidelius mentioned back in chapter 2 that the empire needs the Legions to defend against and some lords are tired of paying for. I didn't write down the specific name of the trouble and don't want to backtrack at the moment to check so I can't be sure, but I am going to guess this is the case, and also that Tavi is correct that this is just a precursor/scouting party; and we're about to see a large scale invasion in the middle of a civil war.

There's an official map here (http://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2009/codex-alera-map) that might help tracking and making sense of things like that. I just checked and didn't see anything on it that I'd consider a meaningful spoiler.

[josienoms]

The Marat are, in fact, a separate species from humans. They're the non-human race that looks the most human, but there are enough differences for them to be considered an entirely different thing.

Also, there's another reason that Alerans have a specific word for Furycraft, despite the fact that they can all do it. Other races can't. Furycraft is unique to Alerans, it's what sets them apart and allowed their ancestors to conquer the lands that eventually became Alera.

Also, Herdbane are Terror Birds. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacidae) A lot of the animals on Carna are prehistoric earth animals given fantasy-sounding names. Gargants are just Giant Ground Sloths, for example.

[Eldan]

This is a good image to imagine what a terror bird woudl do to a human:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Terror_birds_and_Gastornis_height_comparison.jpg/800px-Terror_birds_and_Gastornis_height_comparison.jpg

[GAZ]

The Marat are, in fact, a separate species from humans. They're the non-human race that looks the most human, but there are enough differences for them to be considered an entirely different thing.

Also, there's another reason that Alerans have a specific word for Furycraft, despite the fact that they can all do it. Other races can't. Furycraft is unique to Alerans, it's what sets them apart and allowed their ancestors to conquer the lands that eventually became Alera.

Also, Herdbane are Terror Birds. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacidae) A lot of the animals on Carna are prehistoric earth animals given fantasy-sounding names. Gargants are just Giant Ground Sloths, for example.

This post is pretty much every non-spoiler thing I wanted to say so far. Good work, josienoms.

Two minor things. The Marat and the other races you can see on the map all have different magics from each other and from the Alerans. And Gargants aren't just Giant Ground Sloths. They're giant ground sloths with tusks! For goring!

I know that they technically have watercrafting, but they use it radically differently than Alerans do. And Isana finding that out is a huge deal.

[Legato Endless]

Honestly between a bunch of names ending with "ius", the short sword that Amara picks up as a Gladius, and dealing with Legionarres and a rogue Legion, I definitely feel like this is about as much Rome as I would know how to identify. Which probably speaks more about my knowledge of Roman culture than it does about the book, but hey. I got into this for fantasy not because of Roman influences specifically (which I did not know were a part of the book at all until starting the thread anyway)

If you're ever more interested in the latter, The History of Rome podcast by Mike Duncan is a stellar overview to wet your feet.

[josienoms]

This post is pretty much every non-spoiler thing I wanted to say so far. Good work, josienoms.

Two minor things. The Marat and the other races you can see on the map all have different magics from each other and from the Alerans. And Gargants aren't just Giant Ground Sloths. They're giant ground sloths with tusks! For goring!

I know that they technically have watercrafting, but they use it radically differently than Alerans do. And Isana finding that out is a huge deal.

I forgot about the tusks!

That's why I didn't really mention the Icemen, even in spoilers.